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Fire Ron Wilson... ASAP PART II

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05-17-2011, 10:11 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
I like Wilson as a coach. I think his ******* demeanor has fixed a lot of floating problems we used to have, and he has gotten results out of a lot of players.
I disagree.

Leafs are almost back to where Maurice had them 3-4 years ago.

Wilson will only get credit when he earns credit, and that isn't by continuously missing the playoffs.

And if it is all about the players then Wilson should never get credit. Can't blame the players for failure and the coach for success or vice versa.

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05-17-2011, 10:13 AM
  #952
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I meant Boucher, having 3 stars doesn't guarantee a conference final appearance. Man you have to recognize Boucher has done a remarkable job.
look at how stacked tampas roster is upfront and on defense and youd have to be a failure of a coach to not have success with them. on top of their 3 superstars they have highly skilled role players like gagne, malone and downie to fall back on. moore and bergenheim have given them huge production this playoffs. they have loads of experience on d with ohlund, kubina, brewer and a stud in hedman. how you can give their coach so much credit is beyond me. are you saying wilson wouldnt have done such a remarkable job with that roster? alot of leaf fans give too much liability to the coach and not enough on the roster. wilson deserves a chance with a good roster to try and win with the players hes developed. we are the second youngest team in the league and everyone has been blaming our shortcomings on coaching... im not buying it.

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05-17-2011, 10:24 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I disagree.

Leafs are almost back to where Maurice had them 3-4 years ago.

Wilson will only get credit when he earns credit, and that isn't by continuously missing the playoffs.

And if it is all about the players then Wilson should never get credit. Can't blame the players for failure and the coach for success or vice versa.
I agree and disagree with you.

Wilson I think has done a serviceable job so far, along with his coaching staff he's molded some guys like Schenn, Kulie, and Grabo in to very solid two way players but on the other hand has had difficulty finding the potential with guys like Bozak, Kadri etc.

This is Wilson's year to earn credit though. After almost 3 years of Brian Burke at the helm, I think he can finally be held accountable for the performance of the team. By the end of this offseason I'm pretty confident BB will have made enough moves to deem the Leafs a playoff team (even if it is just a 7-8 sneaker), and Wilson will have to make the team perform as such.

I think after the first 20-30 games we'll see where this team is at, if theyre playing well I think Wilson will be at the helm all year, but if they go into another 10 game losing streak that'll be the end of Ronny in TO.

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05-17-2011, 10:24 AM
  #954
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Brian Burke doesn't give a rats@%^ what any of you think. Ron Wilson is the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

Wilson took over a roster full of under acheivers who were death spiralling, he wouldn't allow for a captain and basically became the teams only leader. they did not respond

He and Burke weeded out the roster and turned it over almost completely, they now pretty much have the team they are going to move forward with with the exception of one two more additions to upgrade a couple of areas. If Ron can't get that team to play and win then you dial him, but only if you have a satisfactory replacement.

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05-17-2011, 10:27 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
look at how stacked tampas roster is upfront and on defense and youd have to be a failure of a coach to not have success with them. on top of their 3 superstars they have highly skilled role players like gagne, malone and downie to fall back on. moore and bergenheim have given them huge production this playoffs. they have loads of experience on d with ohlund, kubina, brewer and a stud in hedman. how you can give their coach so much credit is beyond me. are you saying wilson wouldnt have done such a remarkable job with that roster? alot of leaf fans give too much liability to the coach and not enough on the roster. wilson deserves a chance with a good roster to try and win with the players hes developed. we are the second youngest team in the league and everyone has been blaming our shortcomings on coaching... im not buying it.
Boucher brings structure, systems and accountability to a team, Toccett had the same nucleus but finished 2 games under .500 in 09-10. Washington and Anaheim could be argued have more if not the same 3 stars than TB has but exited early.

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05-17-2011, 10:32 AM
  #956
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Boucher brings structure, systems and accountability to a team, Toccett had the same nucleus but finished 2 games under .500 in 09-10. Washington and Anaheim could be argued have more if not the same 3 stars than TB has but exited early.
washingtons d was banged up and not as solid overall as tampas. semin and backstrom had fail playoffs and are no where near as established stars as tampas big 3.

anaheim got out coached and out hustled. and the team tochett had was drastically different overall than this tampa team. the d and role players were far less dependable. stamkos was also only 19.

that being said boucher has done a great job putting it all together and generating a winner , he deserves a lot of credit for not failing. but he is obviously not the sole reason or main reason tampa has succeeded and any coach that isnt the second coming of mike milbury would have done a similar job.

also, goaltending.

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05-17-2011, 10:36 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
Brian Burke doesn't give a rats@%^ what any of you think. Ron Wilson is the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

Wilson took over a roster full of under acheivers who were death spiralling, he wouldn't allow for a captain and basically became the teams only leader. they did not respond

He and Burke weeded out the roster and turned it over almost completely, they now pretty much have the team they are going to move forward with with the exception of one two more additions to upgrade a couple of areas. If Ron can't get that team to play and win then you dial him, but only if you have a satisfactory replacement.
Just for future reference this is NEVER a reasonable thing to say

If any of us were actually trying to alter Burkies thought process, or influence his decisions we wouldn't be online posting on HF expecting him to read it...

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05-17-2011, 10:39 AM
  #958
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Just for future reference this is NEVER a reasonable thing to say

If any of us were actually trying to alter Burkies thought process, or influence his decisions we wouldn't be online posting on HF expecting him to read it...
i agree and think its a lame basis for an argument but it appears some fans on here think they can sway the fortune and decisions of the leafs by belligerently adapting some sort of mantra and annoyingly use it as often as possible on the radio or internet.

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05-17-2011, 10:40 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
washingtons d was banged up and not as solid overall as tampas. semin and backstrom had fail playoffs and are no where near as established stars as tampas big 3.

anaheim got out coached and out hustled. and the team tochett had was drastically different overall than this tampa team. the d and role players were far less dependable. stamkos was also only 19.

that being said boucher has done a great job putting it all together and generating a winner , he deserves a lot of credit for not failing. but he is obviously not the sole reason or main reason tampa has succeeded and any coach that isnt the second coming of mike milbury would have done a similar job.

also, goaltending.
I agree with all of the above, just not the bolded part. It's not as easy as making a blanket statement of any experienced coach would have accomplished the same thing. Not all coach's are equal in my opinion.

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05-17-2011, 10:53 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I agree with all of the above, just not the bolded part. It's not as easy as making a blanket statement of any experienced coach would have accomplished the same thing. Not all coach's are equal in my opinion.
the roster thing is highly debatable but up to opinion. and come on , stamkos now or two years ago is a big difference.

but yeah not any coach could have done what boucher has done. maybe they could have had the same xs and os but it takes a unique chemistry and relationship and accountability from the coach to produce a winner even from a stacked roster and tampa has done it. i am cheering for a tampa san jose final because such exciting hockey would be huge for the game, especially in those fringe markets. boston and vancouver would be snore city and i wouldnt know who to cheer against more lol.

but i still think wilson could have produced similar results. tho i dont think he could play the same mind games guy has been doing. boucher is good at the jedi mind tricks. wilson would just tell the media how it is and to put that in their pipe and smoke it.

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05-17-2011, 11:03 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
the roster thing is highly debatable but up to opinion. and come on , stamkos now or two years ago is a big difference.

but yeah not any coach could have done what boucher has done. maybe they could have had the same xs and os but it takes a unique chemistry and relationship and accountability from the coach to produce a winner even from a stacked roster and tampa has done it. i am cheering for a tampa san jose final because such exciting hockey would be huge for the game, especially in those fringe markets. boston and vancouver would be snore city and i wouldnt know who to cheer against more lol.

but i still think wilson could have produced similar results. tho i dont think he could play the same mind games guy has been doing. boucher is good at the jedi mind tricks. wilson would just tell the media how it is and to put that in their pipe and smoke it.
I think whats the most imporant thing to remember is the difference in the team between Tampa and Toronto, and not based on skill.

Tampa has a ton of veterans on it from St. Louis and Lecavalier to Dom Moore and Pavel Kubina. These guys don't need the direction and day to day coaching that the young players Toronto has would. On top of that Lecavalier has been a captain for a number of years now, and knows his responsibilities, leadership in the dressing room beings and ends with him.

Bringing in a rookie NHL coach like Boucher into an NHL dressing room full of under 25ers is a completely different dynamic. While he may be good in relating to them and coaching them, he may not command the same respect, or be able to guide the team through the tough times and growing pains that a veteran NHL coach would. (see Joe Sacco and Cory Clouston)

There are lots of very good young coaches out there Boucher, Muller etc. but this doenst necessarily mean that they will be a fit with a particular team. Ronny may not be a guy that we all like around here, but I think that its a safe bet to say a veteran coach is probably a necessity with the team we have right now. Whether that guy is Wilson or not remains to be seen.

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05-17-2011, 11:10 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
I think whats the most imporant thing to remember is the difference in the team between Tampa and Toronto, and not based on skill.

Tampa has a ton of veterans on it from St. Louis and Lecavalier to Dom Moore and Pavel Kubina. These guys don't need the direction and day to day coaching that the young players Toronto has would. On top of that Lecavalier has been a captain for a number of years now, and knows his responsibilities, leadership in the dressing room beings and ends with him.

Bringing in a rookie NHL coach like Boucher into an NHL dressing room full of under 25ers is a completely different dynamic. While he may be good in relating to them and coaching them, he may not command the same respect, or be able to guide the team through the tough times and growing pains that a veteran NHL coach would. (see Joe Sacco and Cory Clouston)

There are lots of very good young coaches out there Boucher, Muller etc. but this doenst necessarily mean that they will be a fit with a particular team. Ronny may not be a guy that we all like around here, but I think that its a safe bet to say a veteran coach is probably a necessity with the team we have right now. Whether that guy is Wilson or not remains to be seen.
exactly , well said.

not only is our core young and inexperienced, they have only been assembled together for a short time. our captain is just getting his bearings and our go to guys are just learning to become regular nhlers. in such a volatile environment a no non-sense veteran coach is a necessity. especially one who knows how to deal with the media like wilson.

imagine rick tocchet head coaching in toronto?

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05-17-2011, 11:46 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
I think whats the most imporant thing to remember is the difference in the team between Tampa and Toronto, and not based on skill.

Tampa has a ton of veterans on it from St. Louis and Lecavalier to Dom Moore and Pavel Kubina. These guys don't need the direction and day to day coaching that the young players Toronto has would. On top of that Lecavalier has been a captain for a number of years now, and knows his responsibilities, leadership in the dressing room beings and ends with him.

Bringing in a rookie NHL coach like Boucher into an NHL dressing room full of under 25ers is a completely different dynamic. While he may be good in relating to them and coaching them, he may not command the same respect, or be able to guide the team through the tough times and growing pains that a veteran NHL coach would. (see Joe Sacco and Cory Clouston)

There are lots of very good young coaches out there Boucher, Muller etc. but this doenst necessarily mean that they will be a fit with a particular team. Ronny may not be a guy that we all like around here, but I think that its a safe bet to say a veteran coach is probably a necessity with the team we have right now. Whether that guy is Wilson or not remains to be seen.
no contract extensions until ownership is straightened out ..and the fact the teachers have an extra seat on the board makes it all the more interesting.
a certain faction of that board wants no part of extending any contracts of management in the raptors or leafs ,in fact in billion dollar transactions historically a new CEO in introduced and he \ll set up his management teams accordingly ....burke will have a boss and anonymity.may be i place now but that can be taken care of in the purchase price .....say remove 10 million and those salaries become a non factor .
u spend a cool 2 billion u better win .......its that simple.

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05-17-2011, 11:54 AM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Just for future reference this is NEVER a reasonable thing to say

If any of us were actually trying to alter Burkies thought process, or influence his decisions we wouldn't be online posting on HF expecting him to read it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
i agree and think its a lame basis for an argument but it appears some fans on here think they can sway the fortune and decisions of the leafs by belligerently adapting some sort of mantra and annoyingly use it as often as possible on the radio or internet.
sorry boys, it's what the man actually said to a Steve Simmons question about Leafs fans wanting Wilson fired in the end of the season presser, so it's actually Burkes thought process, I tend to agree with him though

sanitized version here

Quote:
(If people disagree with me they are confusing me with someone who cares about their opinion,” was his response to a question about Wilson’s coaching
http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/mod...icle&sid=13250

so it's not a mantra it's not me speaking for Burke is what the man actually said, you should've seen the look on Simmon's face, priceless to say the least

I know it's difficult to keep up with everything happening around the team, but c'mon that played pretty big when it happened

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05-17-2011, 12:30 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I disagree.

Leafs are almost back to where Maurice had them 3-4 years ago.

Wilson will only get credit when he earns credit, and that isn't by continuously missing the playoffs.

And if it is all about the players then Wilson should never get credit. Can't blame the players for failure and the coach for success or vice versa.
Oh Ulf, such a can of worms to open up. Is it the players or the coach? Obviously it is a combination of the 2. I don't think you can have success without good coaching and good players, but you can suck with a good coach, or good players or both in combination. New Jersey over 2 seasons is a good example.

Wilson can get credit without making the playoffs, he just doesn't get credit for making the playoffs until he makes the playoffs. Whether we put much stock into getting credit for player development is a personal choice, and we've been down that road before. Whether Patrick Marleau liked playing for RW is different than PM being a better player today because of RW we will never know, but we do know he was pretty underwhelming early in his career.

And when you say the Leafs are almost back to where they were under Maurice I'm hoping you are speaking of standing and nothing else. Because these teams are so different in age, and skill level.

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05-17-2011, 12:35 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
sorry boys, it's what the man actually said to a Steve Simmons question about Leafs fans wanting Wilson fired in the end of the season presser, so it's actually Burkes thought process, I tend to agree with him though

sanitized version here



http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/mod...icle&sid=13250

so it's not a mantra it's not me speaking for Burke is what the man actually said, you should've seen the look on Simmon's face, priceless to say the least

I know it's difficult to keep up with everything happening around the team, but c'mon that played pretty big when it happened
Yeah I do remember that happening, I think thats a major flaw of reporters in TO, they seem to think that people withing organizations are entitled to their opinion. Simmons is hated by so many fans here in toronto, and its because of things like that. If I had to choose a reporter to convey my opinions about the franchise to the GM, Steve Simmons would easily be the first guy crossed off my list with Damien Cox being a close second. Their both idiots.

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10-11-2011, 11:24 PM
  #967
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No one has written in this thread since May?!

Thread needs to be revived.

C'mon leaf fans, don't tell me you now think wilson is a good coach?

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10-11-2011, 11:25 PM
  #968
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Bump thread.

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