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Predators claim Brian McGrattan from ANA, Waive Stortini

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Old
10-11-2011, 04:09 PM
  #26
Fortheloveofthegame
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[QUOTE=predfan98;37776079]I'm trying to find the article I read in the last 2 days, but can't. In it, the coaches talked about tootoo and geoffrion playing a lot on the pk in practice and how lane lambert talked in some kind of symposium here about walking 3-4 pair of pk killers in the forwards so the top lines aren't doing everything. I just don't see them sending geoffrion down. Who knows...lol


I just wonder what in the heck Bergfors did to make himself a scratch.[/QUOTE]

I was wondering the same thing? It sounded like he played well in preseason. The last game he played with Legwand and Wilson sounded like they were dominant out there. (not saying you should change the Smith/Legwand/Wilson line), but he had offensive success.

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10-11-2011, 04:35 PM
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I don'tknow why everyone is so quick to send geoffrion down. well, I do know, it is his conract. However, late in games it has been 5 and not 16 playing. It would not surprise me to see Blake stay.
Rightfully so. I like Orly's offensive game but he's still not consistently there on D. Terry and Pete didn't call him out the other night but Orly cost us a goal (1st one in STL, I think, where everyone drifted to one side when blues took puck around behind the net and guy came in from high and knocked it over Pex shoulder) not being aware on D. Plus, 5 isn't intimidated by physical play and 16 doesn't exactly mix it up.

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10-11-2011, 04:46 PM
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As Worst said earlier, this is Nick Tarnasky v2.0. Tarnasky couldn't get the job done so we moved him for Belak. Now we've swapped Stortini for McGrattan.

We got run on several occasions in Columbus on Friday night with our smaller defense, St. Louis did it all night and started a lot of stuff after the whistle. Reaves beat Stortini and it continued the rest of the night.

McGrattan brings back the nuclear option when needed and I'd rather play with 17 skaters when McGrattan is in the lineup than play with 17 skaters per game because our guys are getting creamed by goons around the league...

We will be a more physical team with McGrattan now dressing to fight the battles that otherwise we wouldn't be able to handle.

I think the move was necessary after last weekend...

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10-11-2011, 04:59 PM
  #29
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I agree that other teams this weekend were more physical, but in those 2 games it happened on all the lines.
I just still fail to see how having a 4th line goon in there to have one fight a night prevents the other physicality on the other 3 lines. I just don't think it does. He only faces the other 4th line.

Let me give you an example. David Backes leads his team with hits. He plays on the first line. How does having a "fighter" keep him from being so physical on the first line?
I don't think it does.
Rick Nash is leading his team with hits. and so on.

How does having a fighter make us a more physical team? I just don't see it.


Last edited by predfan98: 10-11-2011 at 05:11 PM.
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10-11-2011, 05:15 PM
  #30
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Hits are one thing, running players after a whistle is totally different.

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Old
10-11-2011, 05:20 PM
  #31
predfan98
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Hits are one thing, running players after a whistle is totally different.
this subject is something that I have never understand, so please any help is welcome! (the fighter calms things down concept)

I understand what you are saying above, but are you saying that this only happened on the "4th line" in the last couple of games? Because if people other than the "fighter" on the other team are running players, then how does it help?

I see our players getting pushed and shoved and face washed and Horny put on his back in front of the goal. (smashed)..... but it wasn't by their "fighter", so where does it help?

thanks for any help.

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Old
10-11-2011, 05:30 PM
  #32
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As Worst said earlier, this is Nick Tarnasky v2.0. Tarnasky couldn't get the job done so we moved him for Belak. Now we've swapped Stortini for McGrattan.

We got run on several occasions in Columbus on Friday night with our smaller defense, St. Louis did it all night and started a lot of stuff after the whistle. Reaves beat Stortini and it continued the rest of the night.

McGrattan brings back the nuclear option when needed and I'd rather play with 17 skaters when McGrattan is in the lineup than play with 17 skaters per game because our guys are getting creamed by goons around the league...We will be a more physical team with McGrattan now dressing to fight the battles that otherwise we wouldn't be able to handle.

I think the move was necessary after last weekend...
I'd rather ice 18 actual NHL players than 17 plus one useless goon. Like I've said before, this team doesn't have the depth of skilled players to be able to afford giving up a spot several times a year for a staged first period fight and alleged deterrent during the game. Dressing a goon for this team just hasn't shown to stop much of anything in recent years. The trend of guys allowing a bunch of crap to go on during games has been a trend that the goon-du-jour won't stop. Several of us have said that "toughness" wasn't addressed this off season (in fact the loss of SOB made it worse), but that means throughout the lineup not some crap like Storini or now McGrattan. Teams take advantage of the Preds because not too many guys are willing to stick up for one another, and a goon won't address the larger issue.

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Old
10-11-2011, 06:25 PM
  #33
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Here's what I see for the depth chart

the Team USA line of Smith-Legwand-Wilson

the Team UN line of Erat-Fisher-SK

A surprisingly balanced line of Tootoo-O'Reilly-Hornqvist. Hornqvist parks in front of the net and O'Reilly can be the playmaker, can Tootoo be a shooter?

Then the 4th line is the PK line of Spaling-Smithson-and who ever Trotz wants.

McGrattan will cave in someone's skull with his fists, (Note I'm not a fighting fan, not anymore) and Bergfors is the extra scoring forward.

Looking at Bergfor's stats I ask myself this, are his stats overly inflated by playing for overly offensively minded teams?

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Old
10-11-2011, 08:58 PM
  #34
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I have never understood how a guy can keep us from getting pummeled in the pressbox. And I have also never understood why if the other teams cheapshot artist takes a run at pekka or one of our skill guys, how having our goon dance with their goon helps that in any way. The only way I see us not getting roughed up is if we have a physical guy who is in the lineup every night, who isn't a total waste of space, who can destroy a skilled player on the other team in retaliation. To me thats tootoo. He isn't gonna go toe to toe with the other teams fighter(unless he has to) but if you start **** with us he will do his best to level one of your players in return.

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Old
10-11-2011, 09:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
I agree that other teams this weekend were more physical, but in those 2 games it happened on all the lines.
I just still fail to see how having a 4th line goon in there to have one fight a night prevents the other physicality on the other 3 lines. I just don't think it does. He only faces the other 4th line.

Let me give you an example. David Backes leads his team with hits. He plays on the first line. How does having a "fighter" keep him from being so physical on the first line?
I don't think it does.
Rick Nash is leading his team with hits. and so on.

How does having a fighter make us a more physical team? I just don't see it.
The PREDS said goodbye to being physical and hello to a more speed skating team the second Shane O'Brien cleaned out his locker.

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Old
10-11-2011, 10:29 PM
  #36
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I'm amazed that the amount that people post on here they don't understand the need or use of a heavyweight that can protect our players. People assume our goon fights the other teams goon. That's not the way it works. If any player runs one of our guys, our goon goes out the next shift to answer the bell with that player. Do you really think Backes is going to run Hornqvist if he knows the next shift McGrattan is coming onto the ice? Do you think guys will run our guys, especially within the division, if they know the next time they face us, McGrattan is going to have a field day with someone's face?

Anyone notice how little we were run at last year because of Belak on our team? That's because if you did mess with us, he was in the lineup the next game ready to tango. The only time goons go up against other goons is to get the crowd into the game. Most of the time it happens right after the drop of the puck. These are staged obviously. However, if you have a guy on the bench that can go, it will prevent injuries and guys from getting run. Remember before we had Belak, what happened to Dumont? Got leveled by Burrows. All because there was no threat that Burrows had to pay. Why did Gretzky never get run, McSorley or Semenko were always on his team. If you ran Gretzky, you had to answer to McSorley. It's always been there, it will always continue to be there. Do we really want Tootoo, Weber or Klein to have to answer the bell for us? Pretty stupid if we did.

I have no problem with us picking up a heavyweight to do the dirty work that needs to get done.

Perfect case of why you have these guys. A few years ago we're playing Edmonton. Tootoo wrecks Hemsky. Knocked him out of the game and for a bunch of games because of either cracked ribs or concussion, don't remember which. Next shift Tootoo was on the ice, Moreau came out and went at Tootoo. Tootoo obliged, they did their dance and that was the end of it, except that Tootoo already took out Hemsky. Now Moreau was a good captain for them and he was a decent fighter but do you think Tootoo goes after Hemsky if he has to face a McGrattan, a Belak or a Laraque? Probably not. Do we want our guys getting run when we play teams like Columbus or St. Louis who are known for this? Remember, Boll wasn't even in the lineup Thursday night. I like that the other team has to think about this when playing us. Better to have McGrattan and not use him then need him and have Stortini. And for all those that say he could take a regular shift, if he could, he'd still be with us. Hordichuk was about as close to a heavyweight that could actually take a shift for us in recent memory.

McGrattan has one duty and that's to make sure we stay healthy along the journey. We play in a tough conference and at the end of the day, it's insurance to make sure that we go to the playoffs with a healthy and talented club. Stortini is a punching bag, at least that's what I think it means in Italian. He was an ineffective enforcer. Much happier with McGrattan.

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Old
10-11-2011, 10:51 PM
  #37
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Sounds like we need Fisher back. He'll provide us with that top6 physicality we are lacking. Who doesn't expect McGrattan to be scratched a more times than not? I say he see's a little amount of games.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I'm amazed that the amount that people post on here they don't understand the need or use of a heavyweight that can protect our players. People assume our goon fights the other teams goon. That's not the way it works. If any player runs one of our guys, our goon goes out the next shift to answer the bell with that player. Do you really think Backes is going to run Hornqvist if he knows the next shift McGrattan is coming onto the ice? Do you think guys will run our guys, especially within the division, if they know the next time they face us, McGrattan is going to have a field day with someone's face?

Anyone notice how little we were run at last year because of Belak on our team? That's because if you did mess with us, he was in the lineup the next game ready to tango. The only time goons go up against other goons is to get the crowd into the game. Most of the time it happens right after the drop of the puck. These are staged obviously. However, if you have a guy on the bench that can go, it will prevent injuries and guys from getting run. Remember before we had Belak, what happened to Dumont? Got leveled by Burrows. All because there was no threat that Burrows had to pay. Why did Gretzky never get run, McSorley or Semenko were always on his team. If you ran Gretzky, you had to answer to McSorley. It's always been there, it will always continue to be there. Do we really want Tootoo, Weber or Klein to have to answer the bell for us? Pretty stupid if we did.

I have no problem with us picking up a heavyweight to do the dirty work that needs to get done.

Perfect case of why you have these guys. A few years ago we're playing Edmonton. Tootoo wrecks Hemsky. Knocked him out of the game and for a bunch of games because of either cracked ribs or concussion, don't remember which. Next shift Tootoo was on the ice, Moreau came out and went at Tootoo. Tootoo obliged, they did their dance and that was the end of it, except that Tootoo already took out Hemsky. Now Moreau was a good captain for them and he was a decent fighter but do you think Tootoo goes after Hemsky if he has to face a McGrattan, a Belak or a Laraque? Probably not. Do we want our guys getting run when we play teams like Columbus or St. Louis who are known for this? Remember, Boll wasn't even in the lineup Thursday night. I like that the other team has to think about this when playing us. Better to have McGrattan and not use him then need him and have Stortini. And for all those that say he could take a regular shift, if he could, he'd still be with us. Hordichuk was about as close to a heavyweight that could actually take a shift for us in recent memory.

McGrattan has one duty and that's to make sure we stay healthy along the journey. We play in a tough conference and at the end of the day, it's insurance to make sure that we go to the playoffs with a healthy and talented club. Stortini is a punching bag, at least that's what I think it means in Italian. He was an ineffective enforcer. Much happier with McGrattan.
okay, just to take one example of yours ... Backes never would face an enforcer if he runs Hornqvist because we'd never put the enforcer out against their first line.

belak only played 15 games last year. he was no threat to anyone that ran over our team

The enforcer can't do anything except to a player who will accept his challenge and is out against him on the fourth line......

we had no one,no one..... who stood up to burrows after he ran dumont... even tootoo.... but maybe trotz told him not to, i don't know. but see, burrows won't fight when asked also, he just runs people.
so how does an enforcer help that?

I totally disagree with you on this. but just makes it interesting between games.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:33 PM
  #39
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No Backes wouldn't face McGrattin...

BUT he has to share a locker room with, and answer to whichever of his mates DID go with McGrattin. And he has to live with that. These guys appreciate their enforcers, and they don't want to be responsible for their guy having to go out and drop the mitts to defend their stupid cheap shot.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:56 PM
  #40
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No Backes wouldn't face McGrattin...

BUT he has to share a locker room with, and answer to whichever of his mates DID go with McGrattin. And he has to live with that. These guys appreciate their enforcers, and they don't want to be responsible for their guy having to go out and drop the mitts to defend their stupid cheap shot.
still doesnt explain how this works if McG is scratched 60 games(which is what I expect).

I find it hard to believe that the threat of retribution many games hence (as has been suggested) is much of a deterrent

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Old
10-12-2011, 12:25 AM
  #41
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still doesnt explain how this works if McG is scratched 60 games(which is what I expect).

I find it hard to believe that the threat of retribution many games hence (as has been suggested) is much of a deterrent
It's the same reason the SHT line was effective. You run a guy and we're going to send in Hordi, Toots, and Smitty and they're going to hit everything that moves and probably fight someone.

You run a guy and we take his number. If he won't answer the bell, McG will find one of his team mates who will. If not and he needs to make a statement he won't care if the guy is willing or not.

When there's someone like McG watching you, most players notice and tend to not run players because they know what will happen. It doesn't matter how often he's scratched. Very few heavies play 82 games. That's not their job.

McG >>>> Stortini
McG in the press box >>>> One of our young guys in the press box

Good upgrade by Poile.

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10-12-2011, 12:35 AM
  #42
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Enforcers like McGrattan fight other enforcers. We can look forward to McGrattan v Parros ... McGrattan v Reeves .... McGrattan v Shelley ... other than than that we can expect McGrattan v pressbox seat.

He doesn't bring grit or toughness, he brings a sideshow when we play other teams with a goon. Once the guys start standing up for each other we'll have some toughness ... adding McGrattan does nothing for overall toughness.

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Old
10-12-2011, 12:53 AM
  #43
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Since we have to play Chicago 6 times, this is a good move. Chicago has Carcillo and John Scott, maybe another.

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10-12-2011, 09:04 AM
  #44
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McGrattan doesn't make our lineup tougher, he doesn't make the other players tougher. But he can potentially deter the other roster from taking as many liberties with our lineup.

I'm not saying i'm a big fan, or that this is the right move to make. Just pointing out why it is made and how it (theoretically) impacts the opponent.

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10-12-2011, 09:18 AM
  #45
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It's the same reason the SHT line was effective. You run a guy and we're going to send in Hordi, Toots, and Smitty and they're going to hit everything that moves and probably fight someone.

You run a guy and we take his number. If he won't answer the bell, McG will find one of his team mates who will. If not and he needs to make a statement he won't care if the guy is willing or not.

When there's someone like McG watching you, most players notice and tend to not run players because they know what will happen. It doesn't matter how often he's scratched. Very few heavies play 82 games. That's not their job.

McG >>>> Stortini
McG in the press box >>>> One of our young guys in the press box

Good upgrade by Poile.
funny you mention taking a number, as that has been a commen lament among preds fans is Trotz has talked in the past about "taking numbers" but in fact we almost never do.

also, the SHT line was effective because it was composed of guys who, though not a big threat to score, could nonetheless take 10-12 shifts a night without costing us dearly.

as was mentioned elsewhere, McG wont be put out on the ice against another teams top lines, so its not like he can get "eye for an eye" retribution..


To me, the only effective "enforcer" is one who can play a regular shift every night and contribute something more than his fists to the team.

There are precious few of those types around.

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Old
10-12-2011, 09:51 AM
  #46
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I agree that other teams this weekend were more physical, but in those 2 games it happened on all the lines.
I just still fail to see how having a 4th line goon in there to have one fight a night prevents the other physicality on the other 3 lines. I just don't think it does. He only faces the other 4th line.

Let me give you an example. David Backes leads his team with hits. He plays on the first line. How does having a "fighter" keep him from being so physical on the first line?
I don't think it does.
Rick Nash is leading his team with hits. and so on.

How does having a fighter make us a more physical team? I just don't see it.

i just quoted this one, but this answer goes to a bunch of them. Berry Trotz this morning talked about wht it is necessary for a guy like this to dress/be on the team. It isn't so much as he has someone's back. Does he, yeah, if need be. What the guy does is allows guys to ramp up their games a bit physically. trotz made it sound like the guy will go out, hit a few shifts, either set the tone physically, or calm some things down. And most times, all it takes is the threat of a soft euro or a star getting hit that keeps guys from getting run. It allows some of our softer guys to stay in the play rather than, as trotz put is, "stare at the ground looking for quarters." guys are not afraid of being blindsided. Guys are not afraid to maybe throw their body a bit more. It is a mental thing having a big loaf who can do some of the little greasy things. When our muckers and grinders have a little confidence in the offensive zone, we are a dangerous team. This signing was as much a mental thing as is it physical.

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10-12-2011, 10:32 AM
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funny you mention taking a number, as that has been a commen lament among preds fans is Trotz has talked in the past about "taking numbers" but in fact we almost never do.

also, the SHT line was effective because it was composed of guys who, though not a big threat to score, could nonetheless take 10-12 shifts a night without costing us dearly.

as was mentioned elsewhere, McG wont be put out on the ice against another teams top lines, so its not like he can get "eye for an eye" retribution..


To me, the only effective "enforcer" is one who can play a regular shift every night and contribute something more than his fists to the team.

There are precious few of those types around
.
So much truth in this! Last year in Atlanta, we had two of those in Chris Thorburn and Eric Boulton. that's honestly why I fee agitator types like Tootoo are more effective.

Looking at mcGratton's career stat, there was one in particular that jumped out at me. In 2004-2005 in Binghamton, he had 551 penalty minutes. he played 71 games, so that's a possible 4260 minutes in a season. That's 13% of his season spent in the box. granted, that's old AHL numbers, but I found it amusing.

I do think he's an upgrade over Stortini though

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10-12-2011, 10:56 AM
  #48
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i just quoted this one, but this answer goes to a bunch of them. Berry Trotz this morning talked about wht it is necessary for a guy like this to dress/be on the team. It isn't so much as he has someone's back. Does he, yeah, if need be. What the guy does is allows guys to ramp up their games a bit physically. trotz made it sound like the guy will go out, hit a few shifts, either set the tone physically, or calm some things down. And most times, all it takes is the threat of a soft euro or a star getting hit that keeps guys from getting run. It allows some of our softer guys to stay in the play rather than, as trotz put is, "stare at the ground looking for quarters." guys are not afraid of being blindsided. Guys are not afraid to maybe throw their body a bit more. It is a mental thing having a big loaf who can do some of the little greasy things. When our muckers and grinders have a little confidence in the offensive zone, we are a dangerous team. This signing was as much a mental thing as is it physical.
This is the explanation I've been waiting for. Trotz evidently believes having real heavyweights like Belak, McG and Hordi allows the other guys to play more physical without fear of being run. Doesn't matter if he's in the press box most games. And since Stortini was more of a Tootoo type - not a true heavyweight - he wasn't what Trotz wanted. To me, Stortini was a failed experiment. He was given a shot to be both enforcer & hockey player. He excelled at neither.

I think the Preds could live without a true enforcer. But only if we had other guys willing to mix it up who could be replaced easily if they were hurt or spent half the game in the penalty box. If Weber was on our third pair, he wouldn't hurt the team if his role was more of a deterrent. Let's face it, the Preds are soft. Aside from Tootoo, Weber, and Bam Bam, who is willing to drop the gloves? Cube was, but how will his concussion affect his play. And now Tootoo's game has improved so much that Trotz doesn't want him in the box. No way Weber mucks it up more than once or twice a year. The most physical guys are just too valuable to turn them loose.

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Old
10-12-2011, 11:09 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
funny you mention taking a number, as that has been a commen lament among preds fans is Trotz has talked in the past about "taking numbers" but in fact we almost never do.
It all boils down to intimidation.

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10-12-2011, 01:17 PM
  #50
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I realize the shock, but Stortini cleared BTW.

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