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Old
07-05-2011, 04:29 PM
  #76
Zine
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Old
07-12-2011, 09:33 AM
  #77
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
This is difficult because we're comparing different eras AND leagues. Also, do we put more emphasis on career or peak value?

What about someone like Ovechkin? He's been average for the national team but already during his short career has widely been considered the best player in the game on numerous occasions.
For instance Maltsev had a better/more successful career, but at no time was he ever a better player than Ovechkin or Bure.

I rank higher for peak performance (but that level of play must be sustained for a reasonable number of years)

1. Fetisov
2. Kharlamov
3. Firsov
4. Tretiak
5. Makarov
6. Ovechkin
7. Fedorov
8. Bure
9. Mikhailov
10. Vasiliev
I agree with Zine. This seems to be the correct balance of the best players, including all the generations from the '60's to the present time. I am glad to see Boris Mikhailov and Valeriy Vasiliev on the list, because they are, in my mind, two of the very best, and the same time, most underrated Russian players of all time.

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07-13-2011, 11:01 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Pushkin View Post
The only reason I didn't put Fedorov is because he was never that great for Russia and didn't play that often...
Pushkin, what on earth does that have to do with him being one of the best hockey players in the history of Russia? I don't care if he played in Switzerland National League A his whole career and never played a single Olympic or World Championship game, if he had one of the best careers of all time (of course it would be difficult to do this in the NLA and without playing in Olympics, etc.), then he should belong in the top 50.

On another note, someone else got bashed for mentioning Sushinsky, so this can't go over well either, but he has played for the Russian WC team a number of times, albeit to luke warm results. But no love for Sergei Mozyakin? I mean compared to basically every player mentioned so far, i wouldn't include him. I would argue he would struggle in the NHL with his style of play, but he has been one of the most dominant RSL offensive forwards of the past 10 years. I guess Alexei Morozov would be in the same boat, and lord knows i wouldn't put him in a top 50.

I love the comments on the Latvians (Balderis, Ozolinsh, etc.). Ozolinsh shouldn't count because he never played for Russia. But i don't understand how Balderis doesn't count when everyone seems to be counting play for team USSR or team Russia in WC, WJC, Olympic, Canada Cup play as a bonus for other players. Oh, and lol about the Irbe comment. Does Nabokov not count by the same token? I guess the OP said you can do the regions outside of Russia in the USSR seperately. If that's the case, lets come up with a list with none of the non-Russian borns on the list.

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07-16-2011, 07:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
Pushkin, what on earth does that have to do with him being one of the best hockey players in the history of Russia? I don't care if he played in Switzerland National League A his whole career and never played a single Olympic or World Championship game, if he had one of the best careers of all time (of course it would be difficult to do this in the NLA and without playing in Olympics, etc.), then he should belong in the top 50.

On another note, someone else got bashed for mentioning Sushinsky, so this can't go over well either, but he has played for the Russian WC team a number of times, albeit to luke warm results. But no love for Sergei Mozyakin? I mean compared to basically every player mentioned so far, i wouldn't include him. I would argue he would struggle in the NHL with his style of play, but he has been one of the most dominant RSL offensive forwards of the past 10 years. I guess Alexei Morozov would be in the same boat, and lord knows i wouldn't put him in a top 50.

I love the comments on the Latvians (Balderis, Ozolinsh, etc.). Ozolinsh shouldn't count because he never played for Russia. But i don't understand how Balderis doesn't count when everyone seems to be counting play for team USSR or team Russia in WC, WJC, Olympic, Canada Cup play as a bonus for other players. Oh, and lol about the Irbe comment. Does Nabokov not count by the same token? I guess the OP said you can do the regions outside of Russia in the USSR seperately. If that's the case, lets come up with a list with none of the non-Russian borns on the list.
The reason Balderis and Ozolinsh are not considered among the top 50 Russians is that they are not Russians. Russian and Latvia are different countries, and Balderis and Ozolinsh are ethnic Latvians, not Russians. Furthermore, Ozolinsh would get nowhere near the top 50 all-time even if he was a Russian!

Morozov, Sushinsky and Mozyakin are good players in the KHL, but they don't even deserve consideration as being near the top 50 Russian hockey players of all time. There were at least 50 Russians who played in the Soviet era alone who were better than they ever were.

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Old
10-12-2011, 07:54 AM
  #80
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A lot of variants, who is the best: Tretiak, V.Fetisov, P. Bure, A. Ovechkin, Larionov

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10-12-2011, 08:20 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
Pushkin, what on earth does that have to do with him being one of the best hockey players in the history of Russia?
Don't judge Russian meter with an American stick.
Talking hyperbole, if a Russian wins 10 stanley cups, but doesn't see the puck at the Olympics, then he can win other 10 SC, but he will never be so much popular

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10-12-2011, 10:05 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by mosenkov89 View Post
A lot of variants, who is the best: Tretiak, V.Fetisov, P. Bure, A. Ovechkin, Larionov
In my mind, it is not even close. I believe Fetisov is by far the best player among the five you named. IMO, the two greatest defensemen in the history of hockey anywhere in the world are Fetisov and Bobby Orr. IMO, Orr was the most gifted Canadian hockey player of all time, forward or defense, until he was severely hampered by blown-out knees. Orr may have been slightly more gifted than Fetisov offensively, but Fetisov was a better all-around player, and had better leadership qualities. Fetisov was the engine that drove the Soviet teams during his era.

Tretiak would be a close second, were it not for the big gap that he had in his career in the late 1970's and early 80's. Tretiak played deplorably bad hockey in the 1979 Challenge Cup, the 1979-80 NHL Super-Series, and the 1980 Olympic games. Clearly, it is unlikely that if Tretiak was playing well, that the Soviets would have lost the 1980 Olympic Gold Medal. Also, he retired too early, at a time when he was still capable of helping Soviet teams win.

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Old
10-12-2011, 10:13 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Don't judge Russian meter with an American stick.
Talking hyperbole, if a Russian wins 10 stanley cups, but doesn't see the puck at the Olympics, then he can win other 10 SC, but he will never be so much popular
You are exactly right, Alessandro! It is one thing to play well night to night against sometimes mediocre competition in the NHL, and it is another to go up against all-star teams, with great players at every position, in international tournaments.

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Old
10-12-2011, 10:51 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
In my mind, it is not even close. I believe Fetisov is by far the best player among the five you named. IMO, the two greatest defensemen in the history of hockey anywhere in the world are Fetisov and Bobby Orr. IMO, Orr was the most gifted Canadian hockey player of all time, forward or defense, until he was severely hampered by blown-out knees. Orr may have been slightly more gifted than Fetisov offensively, but Fetisov was a better all-around player, and had better leadership qualities. Fetisov was the engine that drove the Soviet teams during his era.

Tretiak would be a close second, were it not for the big gap that he had in his career in the late 1970's and early 80's. Tretiak played deplorably bad hockey in the 1979 Challenge Cup, the 1979-80 NHL Super-Series, and the 1980 Olympic games. Clearly, it is unlikely that if Tretiak was playing well, that the Soviets would have lost the 1980 Olympic Gold Medal. Also, he retired too early, at a time when he was still capable of helping Soviet teams win.
Tretiak won the Olympic Games in: 1972, 1976, 1984. Only in 1980 the Soviet Union defeated the U.S. in the finals. And do not forget that Tretiak went into the 'Team of the century «Centennial All-Star Team».

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Old
10-13-2011, 11:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by mosenkov89 View Post
Tretiak won the Olympic Games in: 1972, 1976, 1984. Only in 1980 the Soviet Union defeated the U.S. in the finals. And do not forget that Tretiak went into the 'Team of the century «Centennial All-Star Team».
I am certainly not arguing that Tretiak was not one of the greatest, if not the greatest, goaltenders to ever play the game of hockey. I am just ranking him Number 2, behind Fetisov. It's only my opinion, but of the two, I would rank Fetisov higher.

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10-13-2011, 01:10 PM
  #86
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In my opinion Kharlamov should be #1.

Sure his prime didn't last long, but WHAT A PRIME that was.

He just could not be stopped.

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Old
10-13-2011, 03:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
In my opinion Kharlamov should be #1.

Sure his prime didn't last long, but WHAT A PRIME that was.

He just could not be stopped.
Actually, I agree with you. I was only offering an opinion ranking the five players who were listed. Kharlamov was probably the most electrifying player I've ever seen, and his speed and amazing puck control at full speed had the greatest influence on defining and shaping the Russian hockey style that became distinctive throughout the World. But I would still rank Fetisov right behind Kharlamov.

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Old
10-17-2011, 04:40 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by mosenkov89 View Post
Tretiak won the Olympic Games in: 1972, 1976, 1984. Only in 1980 the Soviet Union defeated the U.S. in the finals. And do not forget that Tretiak went into the 'Team of the century «Centennial All-Star Team».
Hmmm, was it just Tretiak who won those Olympic golds? I know he was very good in the 1984 Olympics (though playing on a rather superior team), played well in 1976 too, but did they really need him to win; i.e. did he have to stand on his head or something?
And what's the big deal about Winter Olympics pre 1998 anyway, hockey-wise? I know they're held only every four years, but for instance, the 1976 Winter Olympics was arguably a weaker tournament than any of the Hockey World Championships in the 1970s. Sweden didn't even bother to send a team there, and I think Finland too had some of their top players missing. The only real opposition for the Soviets was Czechoslovakia, and many of CSSR's players were apparently suffering from flue when the teams met on the ice (the de facto final although there were really no finals or semi-finals played back then). It was a reasonably tight match and Tretiak played well, but I wouldn't say it was him who won the game for the Russians.

PS. I don't understand the love for Igor Larionov. He was a very good, smart hockey player, and he showed some great adaptability and longevity in the NHL, but throughout the 1980s, he was considered the 3rd best player of his famous line with Vladimir Krutov and Sergei Makarov, with Makarov being the clear #1. I remember those times, and he was simply inferior to his linemates (according to me and almost anyone I knew).


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Old
10-17-2011, 04:54 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
In my opinion Kharlamov should be #1.

Sure his prime didn't last long, but WHAT A PRIME that was.

He just could not be stopped.
I guess those five or so years (1970/71-1976) is the best prime any Russian player has ever had, although his stats and the amount of awards he won during that time period aren't really the things that make him stand out above the rest.

Well, Kharlamov is one of those players who you have to SEE to understand why he is so celebrated.

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10-17-2011, 11:44 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Hmmm, was it just Tretiak who won those Olympic golds? I know he was very good in the 1984 Olympics (though playing on a rather superior team), played well in 1976 too, but did they really need him to win; i.e. did he have to stand on his head or something?
And what's the big deal about Winter Olympics pre 1998 anyway, hockey-wise? I know they're held only every four years, but for instance, the 1976 Winter Olympics was arguably a weaker tournament than any of the Hockey World Championships in the 1970s. Sweden didn't even bother to send a team there, and I think Finland too had some of their top players missing. The only real opposition for the Soviets was Czechoslovakia, and many of CSSR's players were apparently suffering from flue when the teams met on the ice (the de facto final although there were really no finals or semi-finals played back then). It was a reasonably tight match and Tretiak played well, but I wouldn't say it was him who won the game for the Russians.

PS. I don't understand the love for Igor Larionov. He was a very good, smart hockey player, and he showed some great adaptability and longevity in the NHL, but throughout the 1980s, he was considered the 3rd best player of his famous line with Vladimir Krutov and Sergei Makarov, with Makarov being the clear #1. I remember those times, and he was simply inferior to his linemates (according to me and almost anyone I knew).
I strongly agree about Larionov! I always felt that he was highly overrated, especially by NA fans. He had really smooth puck skills, but he never really accomplished much, either with CCCP, CSKA or the NHL. He was a center who did a good job in feeding two explosive wingers, Krutov and Makarov, but he gets more credit than he deserves IMHO.

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10-17-2011, 03:40 PM
  #91
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Charlamov and his line on the national team was the most dominant unit hockey has ever seen (I´m saying this as a Swede). Huge fan of Charlamov, the best player ever imo. Check my username!

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Old
11-05-2011, 07:27 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by RedAce View Post
#1 Kharlamov By far the best hockey player the world has ever seen.

How was Kharlamov compared to Sergei Makarov?
I think its hard to compare top players from 70s and early 80s with Sergei Makarov 1986-1987. The pace of the game was alot slower in the 70s and early 80s compared to 1987.

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11-05-2011, 08:18 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SergeiMakarovStyle View Post
How was Kharlamov compared to Sergei Makarov?
I think its hard to compare top players from 70s and early 80s with Sergei Makarov 1986-1987. The pace of the game was alot slower in the 70s and early 80s compared to 1987.
Why are you talking about 1987?....KLM was already on the decline by then. Makarov was at his best in the early 1980s.

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11-06-2011, 11:47 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SergeiMakarovStyle View Post
How was Kharlamov compared to Sergei Makarov?
I think its hard to compare top players from 70s and early 80s with Sergei Makarov 1986-1987. The pace of the game was alot slower in the 70s and early 80s compared to 1987.
Makarov's style was very similar to Kharlamov (he stated that when he was a young kid, one of his biggest thrills was when his older brother Nikolai, a defenseman for CSKA, brought him into the locker room and introduced him to Kharlamov), no doubt by design. In terms of skill level, it is hard to say that Makarov was much behind Kharlamov, because he was the fastest skater and best stickhandler among his CSKA and national team linemates, Krutov and Makarov. He was also noted for being unstoppable on breakaways - he would beat goaltenders so easily it was embarrassing. I would rate him just a step behind Kharlamov, which is to say that he was right there among the best Russian forwards of all time.

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11-10-2011, 07:48 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Why are you talking about 1987?....KLM was already on the decline by then. Makarov was at his best in the early 1980s.
I already wrote the reason for that:
The pace of the game was alot slower in the 70s and early 80s compared to 1987.
1987 Soviet was the modern era of hockey but soviet 1980 was very slow, but they didnt have to be quicker because their opponents were even slower.

I love speed and skills and early 80s is a bit slow and old for me.

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12-10-2011, 09:35 PM
  #96
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I think Kharlamov might have had eighter tourettes syndrome or OCD. The way he skated with the puck... very sensitive, different to everyone else ever.

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12-26-2011, 11:42 PM
  #97
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I just came to say I was astonished when reading PAvel Bure's offseason training regimene.

Quote:
It is said that Pavel Bure used to stick to a intense 6 days a week routine in the off-season that included the following:

Morning: 1 hour of running, 1 hour of soccer or tennis
(Lunch/nap)
Afternoon: 1 hour weightlifting, 1 hour basketball, 30 min of swimming
He would frequently do 250 push-ups in a single session and run through
a series of 100-meter dashes, 20 at a time with a 10-second break between
each sprint.

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Old
12-27-2011, 10:23 AM
  #98
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Puchkov, Dekonsky

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11-29-2012, 02:48 PM
  #99
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didn't know where to put this, Bure was on nightly Urgant show today, pretty entertaining.

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Old
12-04-2012, 01:23 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeiMakarovStyle View Post
How was Kharlamov compared to Sergei Makarov?
I think its hard to compare top players from 70s and early 80s with Sergei Makarov 1986-1987. The pace of the game was alot slower in the 70s and early 80s compared to 1987.
Kharlamov>>>Makarov, but Kharlamov<Bobrov. The kids are just too young and forget about the greatest russian player off all time.

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