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Realigned!!! [3/7 update: CHI - COL - DAL - MIN - NSH - STL - WPG; NHLPA approves]

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Old
10-11-2011, 07:57 PM
  #301
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More and more NHL governors convinced DET will be moving to SE Div in Eastern Conference when realignment done in early December.
http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie...23800873111552
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If DET goes to SE (East), it's plausible and possible WPG could take DET's place in Central Div (West). Realignment would be done.
http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie...24549963235328

Boo.

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10-11-2011, 08:16 PM
  #302
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Dear McKenzie,

THAT'S NOT HOW THE BoG WORKS.

For the love of God, you're supposed to be the "good" source on hockey.

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10-11-2011, 08:27 PM
  #303
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Actually, on last tweet scratch vice versa. NHL won't put MIN in otherwise all CDN division. WPG said to be cool being in Central with 4 US.
http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie...32016063418368

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10-12-2011, 11:40 AM
  #304
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Extremely depressing take on realignment.

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10-12-2011, 12:04 PM
  #305
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I just don't see how it doesn't make sense to go to four divisions total. Six works for no one but Eastern Conference teams...

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10-12-2011, 12:04 PM
  #306
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I thought this was a good article. It outlined every possible realignment option the league has.

I'm thinking McKenzie is correct saying that the league will go with the simplest solution, especially with the tentative state of some teams. It wouldn't make sense to shuffle everyone around just to have another team screw everything up again by getting relocated.

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10-12-2011, 12:08 PM
  #307
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I just don't see how it doesn't make sense to go to four divisions total. Six works for no one but Eastern Conference teams...
If every GM was convinced that his team would be one of the teams in the divisions with 7 teams instead of 8, then I'm sure this is the route they would go. But like Kenzie pointed out in his article, the odds of making the playoffs when you're 1/8 teams instead of 1/7 are lower/unfair. The vote would probably be 16-14.

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10-12-2011, 12:08 PM
  #308
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The kicker is that it takes 20 teams to vote "yes" on any particular scheme and there are 15 teams out East, so they could kill anything they don't like.

Eastern teams don't want to play home-and-home with Western teams because that involves more travel (and they are a bunch of *******).

And some teams don't like 8- and 7- team divisions for playoffs, although I think you could probably take the top 2-3 teams and then do a wildcard scenario and fix that.

It sucks because most of the teams are pretty happy right now. I think the only teams that would prefer a different system are Minnesota, Winnipeg, Dallas, Colorado, and Detroit.

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10-12-2011, 12:18 PM
  #309
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Bettman quits being a duche, moves pho to seatle or western canada, Saskatchewan is possible so that issue is resolved, new nw is van,edm,cal,pho,win

Col goes to pacific and dal stays there because dal can suck it

Det goes to east

Min to central


Two birds one stone

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10-12-2011, 12:40 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
The kicker is that it takes 20 teams to vote "yes" on any particular scheme and there are 15 teams out East, so they could kill anything they don't like.

Eastern teams don't want to play home-and-home with Western teams because that involves more travel (and they are a bunch of *******).

And some teams don't like 8- and 7- team divisions for playoffs, although I think you could probably take the top 2-3 teams and then do a wildcard scenario and fix that.

It sucks because most of the teams are pretty happy right now. I think the only teams that would prefer a different system are Minnesota, Winnipeg, Dallas, Colorado, and Detroit.
It's not "East Teams" that are the problem. It's the so called "10" who are the problem. "The 10" are the Northeast and Atlantic conferences.

I haven't read the McKenzie article yet, but if it's any way related to the poorly interpreted crap he's been tweeting, I don't have any confidence there's a single accurate comment in it. If you want to read actually occasionally informed, and occasionally thought out discussion about it, hit up the realignment threads on the Business of Hockey board.

As for a 6 division alignment, the only alignment that could seriously be considered is WPG > NW, VAN > Pacific, DAL > Central, CBJ/DET > SE. Columbus is far more likely than Detroit to move east.

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10-12-2011, 01:10 PM
  #311
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IMO the NHL needs to wait and sort out the Phoenix situation first. Then we will have a better idea of the realignment.

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10-12-2011, 04:24 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Bettman quits being a duche, moves pho to seatle or western canada, Saskatchewan is possible so that issue is resolved, new nw is van,edm,cal,pho,win

Col goes to pacific and dal stays there because dal can suck it

Det goes to east

Min to central


Two birds one stone
Hell Phoenix could stay and you could do the same thing. The issue is that the NHL doesn't want to have a division with 4 Canadian teams which makes sense in theory but ****s over the Wild and/or Colorado.

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10-12-2011, 06:11 PM
  #313
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Hell Phoenix could stay and you could do the same thing. The issue is that the NHL doesn't want to have a division with 4 Canadian teams which makes sense in theory but ****s over the Wild and/or Colorado.
Vancouver to the Pacific is the only move that makes sense to make room for Winnipeg. This allows Dallas to move back into the Central and fixes that disaster. The only other move that's possible is Colorado to the Pacific, but Leipold has made it clear he doesn't want to be in an all Canadian division.

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10-12-2011, 09:51 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Bettman quits being a duche, moves pho to seatle or western canada, Saskatchewan is possible so that issue is resolved, new nw is van,edm,cal,pho,win

Col goes to pacific and dal stays there because dal can suck it

Det goes to east

Min to central


Two birds one stone
Very logical reasoning.

I have a feeling Minnesota isn't going to have much say in which division they end up in. We're one of the few teams that aren't currently dealing with a terrible travel schedule/time zone problem (unlike Dallas, Columbus, Nashville or Detroit).

Our location makes us a viable option for either the Northwest or Central division. However, our reason to join the Central isn't very good. Rivalries from a past franchise isn't going to be heard as a logical reason for us to win a slot in the Central, plus the easier option would be leaving us in the Northwest.

On the plus-side, if we stay in the Northwest we'll either be playing a new team in Winnipeg, or we'll be getting rid of Vancouver. Either of those results makes me happy.

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10-12-2011, 10:19 PM
  #315
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Very logical reasoning.

I have a feeling Minnesota isn't going to have much say in which division they end up in. We're one of the few teams that aren't currently dealing with a terrible travel schedule/time zone problem (unlike Dallas, Columbus, Nashville or Detroit).

Our location makes us a viable option for either the Northwest or Central division. However, our reason to join the Central isn't very good. Rivalries from a past franchise isn't going to be heard as a logical reason for us to win a slot in the Central, plus the easier option would be leaving us in the Northwest.

On the plus-side, if we stay in the Northwest we'll either be playing a new team in Winnipeg, or we'll be getting rid of Vancouver. Either of those results makes me happy.
Well the issue with what ended up being proposed is that Minnesota stays in the Northwest while Winnipeg goes to the Central. Yes it means the Wild are not in a division with 4 Canadian teams but the NW would be without Jets v. 2.0 and with Vancouver.

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10-12-2011, 11:24 PM
  #316
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Well the issue with what ended up being proposed is that Minnesota stays in the Northwest while Winnipeg goes to the Central. Yes it means the Wild are not in a division with 4 Canadian teams but the NW would be without Jets v. 2.0 and with Vancouver.
I've heard that argument, but Winnipeg to the Central makes no sense geographically. Plus, there are 3 teams (Detroit, Columbus & Nashville) who want out of the Central and 2 other teams (Dallas & Minnesota) who want in.

The Jets aren't going to argue as long as they're out of the Southeast, and they could care less if they're in either the Northwest or Central next year; preferably, I'd think they would choose the Northwest. I can't see the league putting an indifferent team (Jets) in the Central over Minnesota and Dallas who are vying for the same spot.

To me, putting the Jets in the Central would be almost as bad as keeping them in the Southeast. Travel distance would be terrible, but they would be in the correct time-zone.

It would be interesting to get opinions from Dallas and Winnipeg fans, though.



I like this layout, but everything gets tricky when playoffs come into the picture. (Thankfully, we wouldn't be playing "Future-Edmonton")

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10-12-2011, 11:37 PM
  #317
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I've heard that argument, but Winnipeg to the Central makes no sense geographically. Plus, there are 3 teams (Detroit, Columbus & Nashville) who want out of the Central and 2 other teams (Dallas & Minnesota) who want in.

The Jets aren't going to argue as long as they're out of the Southeast, and they could care less if they're in either the Northwest or Central next year; preferably, I'd think they would choose the Northwest. I can't see the league putting an indifferent team (Jets) in the Central over Minnesota and Dallas who are vying for the same spot.

To me, putting the Jets in the Central would be almost as bad as keeping them in the Southeast. Travel distance would be terrible, but they would be in the correct time-zone.

It would be interesting to get opinions from Dallas and Winnipeg fans, though.



I like this layout, but everything gets tricky when playoffs come into the picture. (Thankfully, we wouldn't be playing "Future-Edmonton")
I don't like how the east is split in that. People keep making a big deal about Detroit being "promised" to go east, but they either don't know or ignore the fact that Columbus was promised that first (when the expansion team was approved).

My proposal has Detroit stay with Chicago in the central (Detroit doesn't care about playing east coast teams, they just don't want the west coast games) and Columbus meeting Pittsburgh in the southeast. Otherwise the west stays the same:

Northeast: TOR, BUF, OTT, MTL, BOS, NYI, NYR, NJD
Southeast: CBJ, PIT, PHI, WSH, CAR, TBL, FLA

Columbus finally gets paired with their nearest opponent (Pittsburgh to Columbus is like Duluth to St. Paul). The Pennsylvania teams stay together. Washington is no longer the lone high profile team in a low attendance division and gets to be with Pittsburgh. FLA, CAR, and TBL pick up two more very high profile opponents. All the New York teams are put back together, and Boston gets back together with the NYC area teams.

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10-13-2011, 01:01 AM
  #318
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I don't like how the east is split in that. People keep making a big deal about Detroit being "promised" to go east, but they either don't know or ignore the fact that Columbus was promised that first (when the expansion team was approved).

.
Link to that?? Living in Michigan at the time when the expansion was happening I can tell you their media outlets were always reporting that the league had unofficially promised to bring Detroit to the Eastern Conference to hold better viewership of games. No one GAF about Columbus, and no one does now. Why would they move them instead? To preserve the Chicago/Detroit rivalry of the Original Six? In fact, I would wager the only reason it was drawn up the way it was in the first place was that was still the time when Detroit/Colorado were basically going toe to toe every year. When you are the most successful franchise in all of North American Sports for the last 20 years, you kind of can do whatever the hell you want and they'll just take it on the chin. The only reason I can see them NOT moving Detroit is if they believe they would steamroll the Eastern Conference and take out the powerhouse out of the West (which in both cases IMO would be false anyways).

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10-13-2011, 07:51 AM
  #319
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Link to that?? Living in Michigan at the time when the expansion was happening I can tell you their media outlets were always reporting that the league had unofficially promised to bring Detroit to the Eastern Conference to hold better viewership of games. No one GAF about Columbus, and no one does now. Why would they move them instead? To preserve the Chicago/Detroit rivalry of the Original Six? In fact, I would wager the only reason it was drawn up the way it was in the first place was that was still the time when Detroit/Colorado were basically going toe to toe every year. When you are the most successful franchise in all of North American Sports for the last 20 years, you kind of can do whatever the hell you want and they'll just take it on the chin. The only reason I can see them NOT moving Detroit is if they believe they would steamroll the Eastern Conference and take out the powerhouse out of the West (which in both cases IMO would be false anyways).
A few things to open with:

1) No one actually cares about something someone theoretically claims someone in the league office once said in passing to Detroit 10 years ago. The same goes for Columbus.

2) The league does not (and has not ever) have control over alignment decisions. If it did, there would already be a 4 division system decided upon and finalized for next year.

3) The alignment is defined by Bylaws 6 and 27 of the league constitution. Any change to the alignment requires a 2/3 vote (20 votes to pass) of the Board of Govenors.

4) The BoG is comprised of a single representative from each team in the league. The representative are agents for the owners of each club.

5) Columbus is east of Detroit.

6) Columbus has attendance and fan base issues.

7) No one really cares about Detroit outside of their ability to increase gate at away games.

8) Detroit's desire to be in the Eastern Conference is solely related to 10PM start times for west coast games and 9PM start times for MST games.


Now, taking those factors into account, the league doesn't care about something the overly entitled Mike Illitch thinks he "deserves." Detroit will be perfectly happy in a division with only CST teams if interdivision play is changed to a single home and home with the league. In fact, in a town with such large sports competition, it's probably foolish to change to earlier start times for pretty much every game of the season.

Columbus needs help. The real help that they need is spelled P-I-T-T-S-B-U-R-G-H. It is in every team's best interest for the rest of the league to do well. Moving Columbus into the east helps that club tremendously, and helps stave off another threat for relocation. Every problem Detroit has is something Columbus has too. Moving Detroit solves almost nothing, and makes Chicago and St. Louis hopping mad.

There's simply no compelling reason to move Detroit east. "I swear someone promised!" is not a compelling reason, especially when Columbus says the same thing.

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10-13-2011, 08:29 AM
  #320
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I'll break this down, but note that I never said you were wrong...I've just heard this before and no one has ever been able to bring it to light outside of some rumor most likely started by CBJ and/or fans from there.

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1) No one actually cares about something someone theoretically claims someone in the league office once said in passing to Detroit 10 years ago. The same goes for Columbus.
Exactly, this is all hearsay from people inside the league from various organizations that probably should never have been leaked in the first place. But it does pave the way as to who is telling what.

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2) The league does not (and has not ever) have control over alignment decisions. If it did, there would already be a 4 division system decided upon and finalized for next year.
Has the league expressed 100% this is what they would want to do?? I only say that because once again, so many things on this board get construed as being "factual" when there is no reliable basis to make that claim

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3) The alignment is defined by Bylaws 6 and 27 of the league constitution. Any change to the alignment requires a 2/3 vote (20 votes to pass) of the Board of Govenors.
I know that but it leads to the next question...

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4) The BoG is comprised of a single representative from each team in the league. The representative are agents for the owners of each club.
And who do you think one of the most known Owners is in the league outside of Super Mario and very few others?

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5) Columbus is east of Detroit.
I'm Michigan fan, trust me I know where Columbus is bro I've been there twice in Maize 'n Blue. That was an experience all in itself.

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6) Columbus has attendance and fan base issues.
Columbus is a college town much like Gainesville is. They are the only professional team there. Tickets aren't exactly cheap for the average college kid to attend. Not to mention football reigns supreme in the state of Ohio, not hockey. Not saying that is the overlaying issue as their performance has been just as terrible as Atlanta's but they are winning the war because they have Detroit (which is technically preserving a Michigan v. Ohio rivalry) and Chicago which is 6 hours away with Pitt being the closest at 3 hours away. Then again...we have always talked about how distance is a moot point when you have teams like Vancouver and us traveling over 3 timezones within our own division.

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7) No one really cares about Detroit outside of their ability to increase gate at away games.
Detroit is one of the easiest teams to travel well. Watch a Dallas or Phoenix game in those arena's. It will be dominated by Red/White. Hence why Phoenix doing "White Outs" were completely stupid considering Detroit was the Away team...

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8) Detroit's desire to be in the Eastern Conference is solely related to 10PM start times for west coast games and 9PM start times for MST games.
And that is the same reason Columbus wants it too. It is hard on the body to be a EST team going from Pacific to Eastern (Away/Home) games. Granted it isn't the jetlag you would feel going over the pond, but for these guys working and training practically every single day...you are going to wear on them.


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Now, taking those factors into account, the league doesn't care about something the overly entitled Mike Illitch thinks he "deserves." Detroit will be perfectly happy in a division with only CST teams if interdivision play is changed to a single home and home with the league. In fact, in a town with such large sports competition, it's probably foolish to change to earlier start times for pretty much every game of the season.
If you made the division up of Minnesota/St. Louis/Chicago/Detroit/Toronto you would probably be very right. And a very FAR stretch if you put Dallas/Winnipeg in there.

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Columbus needs help. The real help that they need is spelled P-I-T-T-S-B-U-R-G-H. It is in every team's best interest for the rest of the league to do well. Moving Columbus into the east helps that club tremendously, and helps stave off another threat for relocation. Every problem Detroit has is something Columbus has too. Moving Detroit solves almost nothing, and makes Chicago and St. Louis hopping mad.
The only reason I hate this answer (not saying you're not right) is you give Pittsburgh all the power in the world for "saving a franchise" and that is just...unacceptable. If a team fails, they fail then. Blame ownership and management for misplays. This team should be able to compete with the draft picks they've had in the past. The fact that basically Nash is the only player to truly pan out is more pathetic than ours.

It makes more than just those two teams mad though. Frankly, take them into the West where we only play them once and I'll be livid as hell.

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There's simply no compelling reason to move Detroit east. "I swear someone promised!" is not a compelling reason, especially when Columbus says the same thing.
And neither can back up the claim outside of beat writers and the like who may all just be trying to sell stories. Frankly, I think Detroit wants it just for the challenge to be honest. Outside of a few loopy years, they've been the #1 seed in this Conference how many times? Not saying they won the Cup X Years because of it (we all know how hard the West is defensively) but they may just want to take on the East and see how it goes. The east is more wide open style of play and has pushed a significant amount of players into the "elite" status because of goal scoring. Is that the right answer? Probably not even close. But it is a personal observation nonetheless.

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10-13-2011, 08:55 AM
  #321
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I have a feeling Minnesota isn't going to have much say in which division they end up in. We're one of the few teams that aren't currently dealing with a terrible travel schedule/time zone problem (unlike Dallas, Columbus, Nashville or Detroit).
Actually the Wild has the most travel of any NW team and is right up there with Dallas for most travel in the league. We also don't have any teams in our division in our time zone. Not to mention no geographical rivals at all.

NW Division > no hockey, so that's why we are here. But it would be best to be in the central. The 4 divisions make the most sense.

The biggest thing they need to do is give every team a home-and-home against every other team. That will take up 58 games of the schedule right there, leaving 22 games. Add another home-and-home against division teams, and that's another 8 games, leaving 14 games, which you can scatter throughout the conference.

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10-13-2011, 09:05 AM
  #322
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Actually the Wild has the most travel of any NW team and is right up there with Dallas for most travel in the league. We also don't have any teams in our division in our time zone. Not to mention no geographical rivals at all.

NW Division > no hockey, so that's why we are here. But it would be best to be in the central. The 4 divisions make the most sense.

The biggest thing they need to do is give every team a home-and-home against every other team. That will take up 58 games of the schedule right there, leaving 22 games. Add another home-and-home against division teams, and that's another 8 games, leaving 14 games, which you can scatter throughout the conference.
Us in the Central would make me do this:


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10-13-2011, 11:30 AM
  #323
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The 4 division idea is good; however, keep the two conferences!!! McKenzie's explanation is way to confusing, have crossovers and such.

Keep it EAST and WEST just with two divisions per.

AND MAKE SURE THE JETS ARE IN THE SAME DIVISION AS THE WILD!!!

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10-13-2011, 11:31 AM
  #324
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Also, if the simple swap of detroit for winnipeg happens, how does that make any sense? Minneapolis/St Paul is more east that winnipeg, yet somehow winnipeg gets to be put in the central??? Makes no sense...

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10-13-2011, 11:48 AM
  #325
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Also, if the simple swap of detroit for winnipeg happens, how does that make any sense? Minneapolis/St Paul is more east that winnipeg, yet somehow winnipeg gets to be put in the central??? Makes no sense...
Geographically no, but the NHL is more concerned about having one American team in a division with 4 Canadian teams. They don't want to move Vancouver out of the NW because of their games against Calgary and Edmonton, so keeping Winnipeg out of the NW is their "best option".

I wish like hell they would just go to 4 divisions and let us have the Central, but all the new talk seems to be centered around keeping the 6 division alignment and adjusting 2-3 teams. Not sure what has happened between now and the interview Leipold had with him talking about the 7-team division we'd be in.

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