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Old
10-12-2011, 06:13 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Lol, we just don't get this I guess. I have already conceded, I suggest you do the same. This guy has it all figured out already.
Apparently it is if you don't think it's a reality that Giroux out scores Hartnell this Season.

You sign Cliff Lee because you think that he can be a difference maker. What make you think that? I don't know, maybe because he has been in the past. I know that's a difficult concept

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Haha. Yup. This is way over my head I suppose.
No the problem is that your dealing in issues that are irrelevant to anything that goes on.

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10-12-2011, 06:15 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Then were done here. Because you don't get it.


But as of today, it clearly IS fiction. Just as fictitious as saying Wayne Gretzky outscored Pierre Turgeon in the 1992-1993 NHL season. Now, it may have been very realistic to expect Gretzky to outscore Turgeon looking forward from the previous season, but it did not become real.

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10-12-2011, 06:18 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Lol, we just don't get this I guess. I have already conceded, I suggest you do the same. This guy has it all figured out already.

I will just wait until someone comes along who is able to resist assembling the same tedious straw man argument over and over again.

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10-12-2011, 06:20 PM
  #304
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But as of today, it clearly IS fiction. Just as fictitious as saying Wayne Gretzky outscored Pierre Turgeon in the 1992-1993 NHL season. Now, it may have been very realistic to expect Gretzky to outscore Turgeon looking forward from the previous season, but it did not become real.
More proof that you don't get it. Let's just ignore the fact that Gretzky only played 45 games that Season.

So since your big on reviewing past posts. Review my post where I included that both players play the relatively same amount of games. Since I knew that that was a likely loophole you would try and exploit.

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10-12-2011, 06:23 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I will just wait until someone comes along who is able to resist assembling the same tedious straw man argument over and over again.
There is nothing tedious about it. There's real life situations and factors that come into play here when deciding on which player to choose. Versus the completely irrelevant factors that you bring up over and over again.

Holmgren shouldn't have signed Bryzgalov, because "he may" not lay better

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10-12-2011, 06:30 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
More proof that you don't get it. Let's just ignore the fact that Gretzky only played 45 games that Season.

So since your big on reviewing past posts. Review my post where I included that both players play the relatively same amount of games. Since I knew that that was a likely loophole you would try and exploit.

Haha, wow. You are really getting caught up in the niggling details and missing the greater (and extremely obvious) point that the past is not the same as the future and that the speculative is not the same as the real.

What WILL happen IS just as good as fiction, no matter how realistic it may seem.

Realistic statement on opening day 2005: "Jonathan Cheechoo will not lead the NHL in goals this year (2005-2006)"

Fictitious, un-real statement today: "Jonathan Cheechoo did not lead the NHL in goals in that year (2005-2006)."

A realistic expectation is not an equal substitute for reality. These are the things we learn by actually observing the past in, you know, reality.

Ok, watching the game now.

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10-12-2011, 06:38 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Haha, wow. You are really getting caught up in the niggling details and missing the greater (and extremely obvious) point that the past is not the same as the future and that the speculative is not the same as the real.

What WILL happen IS just as good as fiction, no matter how realistic it may seem.

Realistic statement on opening day 2005: "Jonathan Cheechoo will not lead the NHL in goals this year (2005-2006)"

Fictitious, un-real statement today: "Jonathan Cheechoo did not lead the NHL in goals in that year (2005-2006)."

A realistic expectation is not an equal substitute for reality. These are the things we learn by actually observing the past in, you know, reality.

Ok, watching the game now.
I'm not caught up in any niggling details. The only niggling details are yours. Your premise has absolutely zero relevance to the real Word of Hockey. None whatsoever.

You still don't get it.

Are you telling me that it's not a reality that the Flyers have upgraded their Goaltending in signing Bryzgalov?

Clearly, if you are truly watching the past, you would know that it is reality. You talk about learning from the past, as you are at the same time ignoring it.

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10-12-2011, 06:41 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Haha, wow. You are really getting caught up in the niggling details and missing the greater (and extremely obvious) point that the past is not the same as the future and that the speculative is not the same as the real.

What WILL happen IS just as good as fiction, no matter how realistic it may seem.

Realistic statement on opening day 2005: "Jonathan Cheechoo will not lead the NHL in goals this year (2005-2006)"

Fictitious, un-real statement today: "Jonathan Cheechoo did not lead the NHL in goals in that year (2005-2006)."

A realistic expectation is not an equal substitute for reality. These are the things we learn by actually observing the past in, you know, reality.

Ok, watching the game now.
The only niggling details are yours. Your point has absolutely zero relevance to the real Hockey World. It has no bearing.

Are you telling me that it's not reality that the Flyers have upgraded their goaltending by signing Bryzgalov?

You talk about learning by observing the past, while ignoring the past at the same time.

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10-12-2011, 07:12 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
The only niggling details are yours. Your point has absolutely zero relevance to the real Hockey World. It has no bearing.

Are you telling me that it's not reality that the Flyers have upgraded their goaltending by signing Bryzgalov?

You talk about learning by observing the past, while ignoring the past at the same time.

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10-12-2011, 07:37 PM
  #310
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If you agree with that statement then you are contradicting yourself.

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10-12-2011, 07:51 PM
  #311
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If you agree with that statement then you are contradicting yourself.

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Old
10-12-2011, 09:17 PM
  #312
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Alright then. Where's the jerk who told me Max Talbot was a waste of money, akin to Shelley and Walker?

Show yourself. Take your whippings like a man.

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10-12-2011, 09:22 PM
  #313
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That's as good as admitting you were wrong!

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10-12-2011, 09:49 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
The only niggling details are yours. Your point has absolutely zero relevance to the real Hockey World. It has no bearing.

Are you telling me that it's not reality that the Flyers have upgraded their goaltending by signing Bryzgalov?

You talk about learning by observing the past, while ignoring the past at the same time.

You're all sizzle and no steak, VS. Sweeping generalizations, denunciations and rejections, but no logical supporting statements. Please show me in writing how any of my posts have implied that Bryzgalov is not an upgrade in goal. That means find a quote, paste it, break it down and explain how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote. You should have plenty of material to work with.

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10-12-2011, 09:52 PM
  #315
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I just wish there was a way we could replace all the offense we traded away...






























(3 games, I know I know...shut up)

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10-12-2011, 09:56 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
You're all sizzle and no steak, VS. Sweeping generalizations, denunciations and rejections, but no logical supporting statements. Please show me in writing how any of my posts have implied that Bryzgalov is not an upgrade in goal. That means find a quote, paste it, break it down and explain how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote. You should have plenty of material to work with.


it's funny how you offer nothing then tell me I'm all sizzle and no steak. And you offer nothing real and your premise lacks even the simplest of logic. You crack me up.

You've said repeatedly that if it hasn't happened yet, then it's fiction. Bryzgalov hasn't played a full Season for the Flyers, or played in the playoffs for the Flyers. So how, with your line of thinking, could Bryzgalov be considered an upgrade? If you say anything other than saying Bryzgalov is an upgrade is fiction. Then your totally contradicting your own premise. It's that simple.

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10-12-2011, 09:59 PM
  #317
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Alright then. Where's the jerk who told me Max Talbot was a waste of money, akin to Shelley and Walker?

Show yourself. Take your whippings like a man.
I said he is overpaid for a 4th line forward/penalty killer and I still stand by that statement. By the way if you're going to brag about him you might want it to be a game where he wasn't on the ice for 3 goals against.

P.S. I'm a woman.

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10-12-2011, 10:07 PM
  #318
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it's funny how you offer nothing then tell me I'm all sizzle and no steak. And you offer nothing real and your premise lacks even the simplest of logic. You crack me up.

You've said repeatedly that if it hasn't happened yet, then it's fiction. Bryzgalov hasn't played a full Season for the Flyers, or played in the playoffs for the Flyers. So how, with your line of thinking, could Bryzgalov be considered an upgrade? If you say anything other than saying Bryzgalov is an upgrade is fiction. Then your totally contradicting your own premise. It's that simple.

Bryzgalov is better because he has more talent.

Bryzgalov's past results demonstrate his talent, and that talent is what the Flyers bought. They did not buy Bryzgalov's past results. Those are over and dead. You buy the talent because you expect it to continue to produce positive results in the future. I never made any made any statement that contradicts that premise.

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10-12-2011, 10:10 PM
  #319
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Bryzgalov is better because he has more talent.

Bryzgalov's past results demonstrate his talent, which is what the Flyers bought. They did not buy Bryzgalov's past results. You buy the talent because you expect it to continue to produce positive results in the future.
No, talent is just talent. Bryzgalov is better because he has proven to be a top Goalie in the League for the last few Seasons. That play in the past, is what made the Flyers willing to sign him and pay him what they are paying him. You still don't get it.

And you avoided what I said. If your premise is that if it hasn't happened yet, it is fiction. Then how can Bryzgalov be considered an upgrade in net? Don't weasel out now. C'mon bring some sizzle and some steak? LOL

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10-12-2011, 10:20 PM
  #320
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No, talent is just talent. Bryzgalov is better because he has proven to be a top Goalie in the League for the last few Seasons. That play in the past, is what made the Flyers willing to sign him and pay him what they are paying him. You still don't get it.

And you avoided what I said. If your premise is that if it hasn't happened yet, it is fiction. Then how can Bryzgalov be considered an upgrade in net? Don't weasel out now. C'mon bring some sizzle and some steak? LOL
ANYTHING that hasn't happened yet is a fiction. "I will get up tomorrow and drink a glass of milk," is a fiction. You need to crack open a good dictionary, VS.

FICTION
fic·tion   [fik-shuhn] noun
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined
5. an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fiction

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10-12-2011, 10:24 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
ANYTHING that hasn't happened yet is a fiction. "I will get up tomorrow and drink a glass of milk," is a fiction. You need to crack open a good dictionary, VS.

FICTION
fic·tion   [fik-shuhn] noun
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined
5. an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fiction
So then Bryzgalov isn't an upgrade in net because it hasn't happened? How many games does he have to play in net for the Flyers before it's considered to have happened, and is no longer fiction?

I ask for steak and sizzle and you bring Bologna! LOL

Please tell me your not seriously offering the definition of Fiction to back up your point. When you have to go there, it's time to give it up. Seriously.

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10-12-2011, 10:31 PM
  #322
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So then Bryzgalov isn't an upgrade in net because it hasn't happened? How many games does he have to play in net for the Flyers before it's considered to have happened, and is no longer fiction?

I ask for steak and sizzle and you bring Bologna! LOL

Please tell me your not seriously offering the definition of Fiction to back up your point. When you have to go there, it's time to give it up. Seriously.

I have to go there not because I wish to insult your intelligence, but because my point seems to be bouncing right off your skull over and over again. I have to believe that you are not actually considering the meaning of the words being used in this conversation.

Bryzgalov is an upgrade in net because he is more talented. I already told you what that implies: more talent should produce better results going forward. That does not mean that those better results are already "in the bank." If I tell you today that Bryzgalov has produced a 40 wins, a 2.00 GAA, .920 SV% and a Vezina Finalist campaign for the 2011-2012 season... something like that is a fiction because it has not happened.

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10-12-2011, 10:38 PM
  #323
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I have to go there not because I wish to insult your intelligence, but because my point seems to be bouncing right off your skull over and over again. I have to believe that you are not actually considering the meaning of the words being used in this conversation.

Bryzgalov is an upgrade in net because he is more talented. I already told you what that implies: more talent should produce better results going forward. That does not mean that those better results are already "in the bank." If I tell you today that Bryzgalov has produced a 40 wins, a 2.00 GAA, .920 SV% and a Vezina Finalist campaign for the 2011-2012 season... something like that is a fiction because it has not happened.
You have to go there because your desperately reaching. No one is giving specific results such as wins or loses. But it is certainly not fiction that Bryzgalov is an upgrade in net. And that was true before he even played a game for the Flyers.
It's not about talent. Zherdev was talented. Players drafted are talented. Doesn't mean that your going to be a good player. Bryzgalov is an upgrade not just because he is talented, but because he is a proven #1 NHL Goalie and has show that with his past play in the League.

Your premise is irrelvant to the real World of Hockey. It doesn't exist. I can hear it now. "Why sign Bryzgalov Paul? How can he be an upgrade if it hasn't happened yet. That's just fiction." Yea, your right, let's just go with Leighton!"

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10-12-2011, 10:51 PM
  #324
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You have to go there because your desperately reaching. No one is giving specific results such as wins or loses. But it is certainly not fiction that Bryzgalov is an upgrade in net.
I never said it was. You are the one who is desperately twisting my words. But the reason Bryzgalov is an upgrade is that he is more talented, not the assumption that we know the future.

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And that was true before he even played a game for the Flyers.
From a talent perspective, yes. But not because certain results were "in the bank." Bryzgalov also could have gotten injured before he ever played a game for the Flyers. They could have upgraded their goaltending talent on paper and gotten zero result for it this year. In fact, if Brzgalov suddenly flops at some point, they still could.


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It's not about talent. Zherdev was talented. Players drafted are talented. Doesn't mean that your going to be a good player. Bryzgalov is an upgrade not just because he is talented, but because he is a proven #1 NHL Goalie and has show that with his past play in the League.
Talent
tal·ent   [tal-uhnt] noun
2. a capacity for achievement or success; ability


Here I have to go back to the dictionary. When I say talent, I mean this. Simply how good a player is, in sum. Not some abstract assessment of his native ability vs his work ethic or something like that.

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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Your premise is irrelvant to the real World of Hockey. It doesn't exist. I can hear it now. "Why sign Bryzgalov Paul? How can he be an upgrade if it hasn't happened yet. That's just fiction." Yea, your right, let's just go with Leighton!"
And your argument is based on a pathetic straw man. I haven't been promoting an argument remotely like that, nor have I been implying one.

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10-12-2011, 10:59 PM
  #325
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I never said it was. You are the one who is desperately twisting my words. But the reason is because he is more talented, not because we know the future.
Incorrect. It's because he's a prove NHL #1 Goalie. Bobrovsky is very talented. Why didn't we go with him?

Nothing is being twisted. Your premise is simply irrelevant.


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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
From a talent perspective, yes. But not because certain results were "in the bank." Bryzgalov also could have gotten injured before he ever played a game for the Flyers. They could have upgraded their goaltending talent on paper and gotten zero result for it this year.
Even if he gets injured. That doesn't change that he is an upgrade to what we had. No one can predict that a player will or won't be injured. Should they not have signed him because he might get injured? Again, that's irrelevant.



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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Talent
tal·ent   [tal-uhnt] noun
2. a capacity for achievement or success; ability: young men of talent.


Here I have to go back to the dictionary. When I say talent, I mean this. Simply how good a player is, in sum. Not some abstract assessment of his native ability vs his work ethic or something like that.
You should read your own definitions that you offer. A capacity for achievement or success. Talent isn't enough. You have to take that talent and put it to use. Tons of talented players don't make it. Bryzgalov isn't just talented. Again, he is a proven #1 NHL Goalie


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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
And your argument is based on a pathetic straw man. I haven't been promoting an argument remotely like that, nor have I been implying one.
Call it whatever you want. LOL.

I'll just call it right.

Your avoiding the question. How can Bryzgalov be considered an upgrade if your premise is correct. That if it hasn't happened yet, it is fiction.

When is it considered to have happened? How many games?

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