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Old
10-13-2011, 10:36 AM
  #26
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He is also a coach who deters away from playing rough, likes the finesse game. Maybe he would be a good coach in Europe ?
And, he is still has not accomplished anything in the NHL, this is a fact.

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10-13-2011, 10:40 AM
  #27
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How is this even a topic of discussion? It takes time for a player to feel chemistry with his linemates. End of story.

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10-13-2011, 10:42 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Nope, i was in Atlantic city since last Thursday. But if i remember right, he was the fill in on the first line last year. And well he isnt first line material.

And to the guy who said JM is underated, please fill me in on what he accomplished in the NHL ? And i am not trying to start a pissing match with you, i am just curious, for a coach who has been around so long. He hasn't accomplished anything.

And to quote you over 1000 games
(Voice of Stuey from family guy)

Atlantic City hm? 'Just a few days' hm? A contract perhaps hm? Bit of a mess to clean up? Just...POPPING down to Atlantic City for a few days! Bit of wet work to do? HM?

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10-13-2011, 10:46 AM
  #29
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Here's a little article by Lebrun about Cole's start on the 3rd line that I think should be required reading around here. Hopefully it clears up some of the speculation and general craziness we've been seeing:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post?id=11644

Among the highlights:

Quote:
“We’re trying to spread our offense,” head coach Jacques Martin said Thursday after the morning skate. “We’re trying to be better at five-on-five play. We’re hoping to get more production that way out of our three lines.’’
Quote:
“Whatever [Martin] thinks is going to give us the best chance to win is fine by me,’’ Cole said Thursday morning. “If it takes me playing in a third-line role as you guys like to say, that’s completely fine with me.”
Quote:
“Sometimes people look at it from the wrong perspective,” said Cole. “You’re looking at it like, ‘Oh no, he’s playing on the third line.’ If I’m playing on the third line, that means I’m playing against the 5-6 d-pair, right? I’m ok with that. So there’s certain things that you guys don’t see it the way players do. Maybe sometimes even players feel it’s a slight. But I don’t think so."
It wasn't a big deal at the time and is even less of a big deal now that the experiment lasted under two periods.

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10-13-2011, 10:52 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Wow,having a conversation with you guys is like pissing in your cornflakes.
Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than your's about a coach who had a stacked Ottawa team and got nothing, and yay he got us in the playoffs two years in a row !! Satisfied with very little i see. He has coached 1000 games in the NHL, grats to JM. Still not my tyoe of coach. And as for the armchair remark, you would be actually quite surprised to know what i do in life.

Agree to disagree.
Do you make armchairs? Hee hee. Sorry dude, I had to write that.

Let's all chillax. I like JM, but I can see why guys would not be impressed also. He has never brought his team to a cup. Yeah, pretty tough thing to do, but a fair comment.

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Old
10-13-2011, 10:58 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Do you make armchairs? Hee hee. Sorry dude, I had to write that.

Let's all chillax. I like JM, but I can see why guys would not be impressed also. He has never brought his team to a cup. Yeah, pretty tough thing to do, but a fair comment.
If I had to guess I'd say he's the president of the Beloeil Minor Hockey association.

And that is definitely true. He hasn't won a Cup. I guess that means Dale Hawerchuck has also never accomplished anything in the NHL. Or Lindy Ruff if you want a coach example.

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10-13-2011, 11:06 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
He is also a coach who deters away from playing rough, likes the finesse game. Maybe he would be a good coach in Europe ?
And, he is still has not accomplished anything in the NHL, this is a fact.
Like Jigger77 stated, can you at least be more specific. I'm not the biggest fan of JM, but I don't see how anyone can deny that he has been one of the best coach we have had in a very long time. He got us to the ECF in his 1st season, and we finished 6 in the East last season and at no point were we in any real danger of missing the playoffs. Also the PP and PK has been top 10 in both years, another sign of doing something right.

Now I think what you mean by "he is still has not accomplished anything in the NHL" is the no Stanley Cups. I believe Lindy Ruff and Barry Trotz along with JM all have not won a cup as coach, does that make Mac Crawford a better coach than all of them?

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10-13-2011, 11:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Like Jigger77 stated, can you at least be more specific. I'm not the biggest fan of JM, but I don't see how anyone can deny that he has been one of the best coach we have had in a very long time. He got us to the ECF in his 1st season, and we finished 6 in the East last season and at no point were we in any real danger of missing the playoffs. Also the PP and PK has been top 10 in both years, another sign of doing something right.

Now I think what you mean by "he is still has not accomplished anything in the NHL" is the no Stanley Cups. I believe Lindy Ruff and Barry Trotz along with JM all have not won a cup as coach, does that make Mac Crawford a better coach than all of them?
I agree, he has a little success as head coach. But no, i wouldn't want Trotz nor Ruff as my head coach. My type of coach is someone we let go last year.

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10-13-2011, 11:23 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Wow,having a conversation with you guys is like pissing in your cornflakes.
Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than your's about a coach who had a stacked Ottawa team and got nothing, and yay he got us in the playoffs two years in a row !! Satisfied with very little i see. He has coached 1000 games in the NHL, grats to JM. Still not my tyoe of coach. And as for the armchair remark, you would be actually quite surprised to know what i do in life.

Agree to disagree.
Some could say that anyone could have won cups with the stacked teams the habs had in the 70,s yet Bowman is known to be a great coach and the basis of that is his job with the habs back then...

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10-13-2011, 11:26 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
He is also a coach who deters away from playing rough, likes the finesse game. Maybe he would be a good coach in Europe ?
And, he is still has not accomplished anything in the NHL, this is a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I agree, he has a little success as head coach. But no, i wouldn't want Trotz nor Ruff as my head coach. My type of coach is someone we let go last year.
You want to trade our current coach who has accomplished nothing in the NHL for another coach who has accomplished nothing in the NHL? Interesting.

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Old
10-13-2011, 11:44 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You want to trade our current coach who has accomplished nothing in the NHL for another coach who has accomplished nothing in the NHL? Interesting.
You mean for someone who WILL accomplish something garanteed before he hits 1000 games in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
Great post
Yep but it still is 1/3 of the season. looking at it the other way.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 10-13-2011 at 01:21 PM. Reason: merged
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10-13-2011, 11:46 AM
  #37
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I'll bite, just to say what i think, JM likes everybody to know that he's the boss.
I really don't think Mr Jm or PG is going to lead this team anywhere. After 19yrs of
nothing, imo these two are not the hockey minded guys to do it. Pg will not address
the lack of size, and even if he did mr martin wouldn't put them on the ice to take
care of bussiness, anyway. How can anybody not address the things that went on last season, the manhandling our players. Pushing price around like a rag doll. Its not fair to ask your #1 goalie to look after himself. Thats not what he is paid to do, and he sure as hell don't need to get injured.
In all my 40yrs of following the habs iv'e never
seen our team been beaten on like they where last season.

You tell me that our smaller player's wouldn't play bigger if they had a guy or two to
protect them when needed. If i'm 5'5'' or 5'6" playing against guys 6' 4" or 6'6", i think i would like to know that someone on the team has my back .
I know the rules are changing and i think a lot of the changes are going to help the smaller players, not be so intimmated.

Cole is here as a top6, leave him there ,you don't put a top 6 guy on the third or fouth line because he had a bad shift or a bad period. I understand the top 9 concept, to me, it's your best 6 guys first and then the nx 3.
You sure don't put a defensive d-man on as the 6th player when your trying to tie a game late in the third period and have a guy like cole setting on the bench. martin has mishandle good players before, if he can't use a guy like cole in the right way...then martin should go!! ..........Kirk was the man for the job IMO !!

....My 2 cents worth


Last edited by Young Gun: 10-13-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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Old
10-13-2011, 11:46 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You want to trade our current coach who has accomplished nothing in the NHL for another coach who has accomplished nothing in the NHL? Interesting.
of course he hasn't JM's experience, how can he, this is his second season in NHL.

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10-13-2011, 11:53 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I agree, he has a little success as head coach. But no, i wouldn't want Trotz nor Ruff as my head coach. My type of coach is someone we let go last year.
I guess it boils down to your preference, but you can't say JM is a bad coach because you don't like his style. If your going to say that at least give valid points. People went crazy on JM when he benched PK for 5 games and said he would ruin him, but no one wants to give credit to JM based on how much PK game improved after that. People say he ruined guys like Speeza, but Speeza is still driving coaches nuts, while the other guys that bought into his system like Havalt, Hossa, Alfredsson, Fisher, all became great two way players in the NHL.

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10-13-2011, 11:54 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You mean for someone who WILL accomplish something garanteed before he hits 1000 games in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
of course he hasn't JM's experience, how can he, this is his second season in NHL.
Exactly, he doesn't have the same experience, so it's hard to say he would have done better with us, maybe the pressure cooker that is MTL would have broken him...
Maybe he will amount to great thing or fall miserably.

So why so sure that he is so much better then JM? at this point in is carreer, I mean alexandre Daigle was more talented then Chris Nilan, yet one has been a much better NHLer then the other.

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Old
10-13-2011, 12:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Yep but it still is 1/3 of the season. looking at it the other way.
1/3 of the season thus far. In the big picture, it's a blip on the radar at .831% of the total regular season.

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Old
10-13-2011, 12:01 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
I'll bite, just to say what i think, JM likes everybody to know that he's the boss.
I really don't think Mr Jm or PG is going to lead this team anywhere. After 19yrs of
nothing, imo these two are not the hockey minded guys to do it. Pg will not address
the lack of size, and even if he did mr martin wouldn't put them on the ice to take
care of bussiness, anyway. How can anybody not address the things that went on last season, the manhandling our players. Pushing price around like a rag doll. Its not fair to ask your #1 goalie to look after himself. Thats not what he is paid to do, and he sure as hell don't need to get injured.
In all my 40yrs of following the habs iv'e never
seen our team been beaten on like they where last season.

You tell me that our smaller player's wouldn't play bigger if they had a guy or two to
protect them when needed. If i'm 5'5'' or 5'6" playing against guys 6' 4" or 6'6", i think i would like to know that someone on the team has my back .
I know the rules are changing and i think a lot of the changes are going to help the smaller players, not be so intimmated.

Cole is here as a top6, leave him there ,you don't put a top 6 guy on the third or fouth line because he had a bad shift or a bad period. I understand the top 9 concept, to me, it's your best 6 guys first and then the nx 3.
You sure don't put a defensive d-man on as the 6th player when your trying to tie a game late in the third period and have a guy like cole setting on the bench. martin has mishandle good players before, if he can't use a guy like cole in the right way...then martin should go!! ..........Kirk was the man for the job IMO !!

....My 2 cents worth

Wait...

We have a cup contender, we almost beat the Bruins last year with half our lineup injured, with all the raw skills we have, no need for a few tough guys...

Yummmmm That coolaid tastes so good.

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Old
10-13-2011, 12:52 PM
  #43
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Some call it balls, I call it stubborness that sometimes work, sometimes doesn't. Cole on the 3rd? Whatever, that 3rd could become the 1st on any given night. But give the guy some PP time.

Moen on the 1st is not balls.....Martin surfs with the fact that his vet gave him a great game, he's congratulating him by giving him a few more shifts, 'cause we don't know if it still be that way at the end of the game. I would not have done it, would use AKost or even Palushaj since this is a temporary measure but Moen could, temporarily, do a good job as well.

Unless they KNOW AKost is walking at the end of the year, I would have given a guy who's playign for a contract, any chance he needs and then some to flourish. At worst, he doesn't produce and you send him back. At best he does for whatever reasons and it's your gain. But having to used that 3 lines balanced strategy and having to use Moen on your 1st is an indication that you don't have a real 3rd line to work with.

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Old
10-13-2011, 01:27 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Yes Martin, Moen deserves to be on the first line much more than that bum Cole !
See this is my issue with Martin. He used Cole - Pleks - Camma and then when Camma goes down, he puts Moen... Why didn't he try a sniper in AK in that spot to replace an injured sniper? Honestly the guys makes me think he has no idea what he's doing most nights.

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10-13-2011, 01:48 PM
  #45
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I agree, he has a little success as head coach. But no, i wouldn't want Trotz nor Ruff as my head coach. My type of coach is someone we let go last year.
I would like to see Boucher coach the Habs someday, but I understood the club's decision to stay with JM. Leave aside JM's merits for a moment. In the broader context, the Habs have a proven track record of breaking in rookie coaches that have gone on to better careers (and developed into better coaches with experience) elsewhere. Julien, Vignault, Therrien come quickly to mind. As great as I think Boucher is, the odds of him spending his whole career in one city, especially a franchise that has turned over ownership like leased cars, is fairly remote. Secondly I think the Habs treated Boucher well and didn't stand in his way when a golden opportunity came along.

To be honest, there's no question, I would've been happier to have him behind the bench than JM. When Boucher's time in Tampa is done, I will be praying we pick him up.

On the JM issue, I find his hockey teams frustrating to watch but I think he's actually a good coach and has improved since his time in Ottawa. Along with boring hockey and a total lack of organizational grit, I feel JM has brought stability and relative success to the org, and the roster is very much tailored to his system. Also, to be fair Martin's failure in Ottawa is at least partly attributable to goaltending, which the GMs in Ottawa have consistently failed to provide. And for all those who criticize his handling of young players, a rosterfull of great NHL players came up under him in Ottawa. Subban and Price certainly seem to be coming along well. So when his time is up, I don't feel he'll have damaged the org long term. Course if they move him upstairs....

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10-13-2011, 01:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You mean for someone who WILL accomplish something garanteed before he hits 1000 games in the NHL.
So a rookie coach is "guaranteed" to accomplish something, while the guy with 1000 games under his belt is doomed to never win anything for the rest of his career. Right?

If that's your logic, so be it. It's just not something I could ever hope to wrap my head around.

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10-13-2011, 02:09 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Probably one of the most underrated coaches in the league.
I agree. On a scale of 1-100 with 100 being the best possible coach, JM probably gets a 7 most of the time. I really think that he is an 8.

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10-13-2011, 02:12 PM
  #48
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I agree. On a scale of 1-100 with 100 being the best possible coach, JM probably gets a 7 most of the time. I really think that he is an 8.
Come up with that one all by yourself eh? Good one man.

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10-13-2011, 02:13 PM
  #49
LyleOdelein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
See this is my issue with Martin. He used Cole - Pleks - Camma and then when Camma goes down, he puts Moen... Why didn't he try a sniper in AK in that spot to replace an injured sniper? Honestly the guys makes me think he has no idea what he's doing most nights.
You can't analyze the decision outside of its context.

Spacek had already been hurt, so Weber was shifted from the 4th line to fill the hole in the defense. This essentially took using the 4th line as an option out of the game early (unless one or a combination of Gionta/Cole/AKost were double-shifted in Weber's RW place on the fourth line). When Cammy was injured, that created a hole at LW on the top line.

The replacement options were Darche, AKost (out of position) or Moen. Keep in mind that this was still fairly early in the game. Moving AKost up to that line would leave Martin with a third line of:

Darche-Desharnais-Moen (out of position)/Engqvist (out of position)

That third line is a lot worse than the third line with AKost (in position) on it. It would probably see reduced ES icetime and force Martin to ride primarily his top 6 horses for two and a half periods.

Shifting Moen up to the first line might not give the line the offensive flair AKost would have, but it did allow for a much better balance in all of the lines, while it also allowed every remaining forward to stay at their ideal position. The only guy who really got the short end of the stick was Engqvist (which is inconsequential, IMO).

In adjusting the lines, Martin had the choice of dramatically impacting 2 of the 3 lines he had left to work with while playing 2 of his top 9 forwards out of position, or affecting only one line while retaining all of his top nine forwards in position. Considering that the team was winning at the time, he chose the less disruptive option and it worked out well.

Heading into tonight's game, Martin's decided to keep the top nine as it worked last game and sub Eller and Palushaj into the vacancies on the fourth line. This isn't a long-term endorsement of Moen as a top forward, but more maintaining consistency in line groupings and avoiding trying to fix what wasn't broken last game.

I would also venture to guess that Martin is keeping AKost with Desharnais/Darche with a solid eye to the future when Eller steps into centering that line.

Nothing that Martin has done is unconventional whatsoever. It's pretty much Bench Management 101.

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10-13-2011, 02:25 PM
  #50
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The reasosn why he put Cole on the third line was explained before: pit AK in the top 6 and spread the love offensively. It didn't work, so he switched AK and Cole. It's that fuxkig simple, no conspiracy, nobody in any doghouses...
Cole getting less ice time can simply be explained by moving him in the system, slowly

Also, I'd trust this guy over any of you maniac any day of the week.

Why? I could do the same job that JM does and get the same result. Sit behind the bench, jot a few notes down and not win a Stanley Cup.

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