HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

JM got balls

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-13-2011, 01:25 PM
  #51
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
You can't analyze the decision outside of its context.

Spacek had already been hurt, so Weber was shifted from the 4th line to fill the hole in the defense. This essentially took using the 4th line as an option out of the game early (unless one or a combination of Gionta/Cole/AKost were double-shifted in Weber's RW place on the fourth line). When Cammy was injured, that created a hole at LW on the top line.

The replacement options were Darche, AKost (out of position) or Moen. Keep in mind that this was still fairly early in the game. Moving AKost up to that line would leave Martin with a third line of:

Darche-Desharnais-Moen (out of position)/Engqvist (out of position)

That third line is a lot worse than the third line with AKost (in position) on it. It would probably see reduced ES icetime and force Martin to ride primarily his top 6 horses for two and a half periods.

Shifting Moen up to the first line might not give the line the offensive flair AKost would have, but it did allow for a much better balance in all of the lines, while it also allowed every remaining forward to stay at their ideal position. The only guy who really got the short end of the stick was Engqvist (which is inconsequential, IMO).

In adjusting the lines, Martin had the choice of dramatically impacting 2 of the 3 lines he had left to work with while playing 2 of his top 9 forwards out of position, or affecting only one line while retaining all of his top nine forwards in position. Considering that the team was winning at the time, he chose the less disruptive option and it worked out well.

Heading into tonight's game, Martin's decided to keep the top nine as it worked last game and sub Eller and Palushaj into the vacancies on the fourth line. This isn't a long-term endorsement of Moen as a top forward, but more maintaining consistency in line groupings and avoiding trying to fix what wasn't broken last game.

I would also venture to guess that Martin is keeping AKost with Desharnais/Darche with a solid eye to the future when Eller steps into centering that line.

Nothing that Martin has done is unconventional whatsoever. It's pretty much Bench Management 101.
Your explanation is quite reasoned. I wonder if JM's critics were happy or unhappy that Moen scored a pretty goal against Ondrej Pavelec.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 01:40 PM
  #52
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
So a rookie coach is "guaranteed" to accomplish something, while the guy with 1000 games under his belt is doomed to never win anything for the rest of his career. Right?

If that's your logic, so be it. It's just not something I could ever hope to wrap my head around.
There are such things as tendencies and predictability that allow someone to make a reasoned decision about the possibility of success or failure.

The number one job of a head coach is to get his players to achieve over and above what their current talent level is right now. It's called motivation.

Boucher has demonstrated that he is willing to treat each individual player as an individual to improve their performance that will help the team.

Martin has demonstrated that he believes in a one size fits all approach to the team concept.

Boucher has demonstrated that he adjusts his systems based upon the personnel he has on his team.

Martin has demonstrated that he will use the same system over and over again regardless of the type of players he has suited up.

Boucher coaches with genuine emotion which can be reflected in his player's state of mind during the game.

Martin coaches with a flat emotionless approach which is often times reflected by his players on the ice.


Intangibles. Some coaches have what it takes to succeed and win the Championship. Some coaches do not have a grasp of that concept, and while being good coaches with regard to systems, will not be able to do what it takes to inspire his team to greatness.

Not everyone can be a champion. Boucher is eons ahead of Martin with regard to intangibles and will win a Cup while Martin will never reach that goal.

SouthernHab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 01:49 PM
  #53
BeerHell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
There are such things as tendencies and predictability that allow someone to make a reasoned decision about the possibility of success or failure.

The number one job of a head coach is to get his players to achieve over and above what their current talent level is right now. It's called motivation.

Boucher has demonstrated that he is willing to treat each individual player as an individual to improve their performance that will help the team.

Martin has demonstrated that he believes in a one size fits all approach to the team concept.

Boucher has demonstrated that he adjusts his systems based upon the personnel he has on his team.

Martin has demonstrated that he will use the same system over and over again regardless of the type of players he has suited up.

Boucher coaches with genuine emotion which can be reflected in his player's state of mind during the game.

Martin coaches with a flat emotionless approach which is often times reflected by his players on the ice.


Intangibles. Some coaches have what it takes to succeed and win the Championship. Some coaches do not have a grasp of that concept, and while being good coaches with regard to systems, will not be able to do what it takes to inspire his team to greatness.

Not everyone can be a champion. Boucher is eons ahead of Martin with regard to intangibles and will win a Cup while Martin will never reach that goal.

Boucher for now has demonstrated that all is theory look good in the Q or AHL, but he hasn't even proved anything at the NHL Level. How will Millionaires react to his approach, might be great for a year or two, but then they'll probably grow tired of it, and he will be let go like other coaches. or He could have a great career at the bar of the TBL or any NHL club. who knows. for now he still has to prove everything

Like I said before Daigle showed a lot more talent and good stuff then Nilan, but one had a great career as an NHLer the other as a party planner...

BeerHell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 01:51 PM
  #54
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
So a rookie coach is "guaranteed" to accomplish something, while the guy with 1000 games under his belt is doomed to never win anything for the rest of his career. Right?

If that's your logic, so be it. It's just not something I could ever hope to wrap my head around.
Sorry, your arguement doesn't hold water. Because Martin has over 1000 games and has won NOTHING. So yes i would take the rookie before the one who had his chance and did nothing. And i never said GARANTEED, nice try though.

PunkinDrublic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 01:53 PM
  #55
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,889
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
There are such things as tendencies and predictability that allow someone to make a reasoned decision about the possibility of success or failure.

The number one job of a head coach is to get his players to achieve over and above what their current talent level is right now. It's called motivation.

Boucher has demonstrated that he is willing to treat each individual player as an individual to improve their performance that will help the team.

Martin has demonstrated that he believes in a one size fits all approach to the team concept.

Boucher has demonstrated that he adjusts his systems based upon the personnel he has on his team.

Martin has demonstrated that he will use the same system over and over again regardless of the type of players he has suited up.

Boucher coaches with genuine emotion which can be reflected in his player's state of mind during the game.

Martin coaches with a flat emotionless approach which is often times reflected by his players on the ice.


Intangibles. Some coaches have what it takes to succeed and win the Championship. Some coaches do not have a grasp of that concept, and while being good coaches with regard to systems, will not be able to do what it takes to inspire his team to greatness.

Not everyone can be a champion. Boucher is eons ahead of Martin with regard to intangibles and will win a Cup while Martin will never reach that goal.
I don't think you've proven anything with this post except the extent some people will go to further a ridiculous, baseless bias, supported not by one iota of factual evidence but instead by conjecture, assumptions and "intangibles".

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 01:54 PM
  #56
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500
What I'm really wondering about is if there's some type of correlation between the size of ears vs the size of balls.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 01:54 PM
  #57
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,889
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Sorry, your arguement doesn't hold water. Because Martin has over 1000 games and has won NOTHING. So yes i would take the rookie before the one who had his chance and did nothing. And i never said GARANTEED, nice try though.
Okay, so it's a logic I can never hope to grasp in a million years then. Thanks for clarifying, I won't bother trying to debate it any further.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:00 PM
  #58
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't think you've proven anything with this post except the extent some people will go to further a ridiculous, baseless bias, supported not by one iota of factual evidence but instead by conjecture, assumptions and "intangibles".
Bookmark my post and then we will see who wins the Cup first, Boucher or Martin.

There is a reason why some coaches win and some coaches never do. And if it werent, all one would need is a pencil pusher to fill out a lineup form.

SouthernHab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:06 PM
  #59
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
There are such things as tendencies and predictability that allow someone to make a reasoned decision about the possibility of success or failure.

The number one job of a head coach is to get his players to achieve over and above what their current talent level is right now. It's called motivation.

Boucher has demonstrated that he is willing to treat each individual player as an individual to improve their performance that will help the team.

Martin has demonstrated that he believes in a one size fits all approach to the team concept.

Boucher has demonstrated that he adjusts his systems based upon the personnel he has on his team.

Martin has demonstrated that he will use the same system over and over again regardless of the type of players he has suited up.

Boucher coaches with genuine emotion which can be reflected in his player's state of mind during the game.

Martin coaches with a flat emotionless approach which is often times reflected by his players on the ice.


Intangibles. Some coaches have what it takes to succeed and win the Championship. Some coaches do not have a grasp of that concept, and while being good coaches with regard to systems, will not be able to do what it takes to inspire his team to greatness.

Not everyone can be a champion. Boucher is eons ahead of Martin with regard to intangibles and will win a Cup while Martin will never reach that goal.
The problem with your 'analysis' is that it doesn't prove anything as Boucher has never won ANY type of championship, no Memorial cup, no Calder cup and no Stanley cup. He sure is good at motivating players, but he always gets beaten in the playoffs by better defensive teams. It happened in the Juniors (twice, I think), happened in the AHL (vs Stars), and lo and behold, it happened again in the NHL (vs Boston).

As of right now, both coaches went as far in the NHL. I don't doubt Boucher is better at motivating players, and I don't doubt that your negative bias vs Martin makes you blind to the emotion that the Hab players DO display on the ice. If Martin didn't strike a chord with the locker room, you wouldn't see this level of commitment/dedication and effort from players.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 10-13-2011 at 02:12 PM.
Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:09 PM
  #60
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,889
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Bookmark my post and then we will see who wins the Cup first, Boucher or Martin.

There is a reason why some coaches win and some coaches never do. And if it werent, all one would need is a pencil pusher to fill out a lineup form.
I'm not "betting" who is going to win the first Cup...if you somehow got that from my posts, it's because you're not reading them properly.

But I do think you should pass along your keen eye for coaching talents to the GMs who keep hiring these go-nowhere guys like Martin.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:10 PM
  #61
BeerHell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You mean for someone who WILL accomplish something garanteed before he hits 1000 games in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Sorry, your arguement doesn't hold water. Because Martin has over 1000 games and has won NOTHING. So yes i would take the rookie before the one who had his chance and did nothing. And i never said GARANTEED, nice try though.
Sound allot like you garanteed it...

BeerHell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:15 PM
  #62
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,282
vCash: 500
Some of you take the fact other people have different views than yourselves to an amazing extent. You will give yourselves ulcers.

I know for myself, and i repeat for MYSELF. I don't like JM's coaching approach. I don't like the way he reacts to the refs during the game, i don't like the way he manages his lines. I don't like the way he is SO damn emotionless. I don't like how he handles young players. I don't like how he treats players who make mistakes defensively on the ice. And most of all i hate his boring defensive, semi trap, small player crap hockey. Now before all of you JM lovers jump down my throat, i have not liked his coaching style since the Ottawa days.


Last edited by PunkinDrublic*: 10-13-2011 at 02:23 PM.
PunkinDrublic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:20 PM
  #63
BeerHell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Some of you take the fact other people have different views than yourselves to an amazing extent. You will give yourselves ulcers.

I know for myself, and i repeat for MYSELF. I don't like JM's coaching approach. I don't like the way he reacts to the refs during the game, i don't like the way he manages his lines. I don't like the way he is SO damn emotionless. I don't like how he handles young players. I don't like how he treats players who make mistakes defensively on the ice. And most of all i hate his boring defensive, semi trap, small player crap hockey. Now before all of you JM lovers jump down my throat, i have not like his coaching style since the Ottawa days.


Now you're talking...and you have every right to that opinion, I actually don'T like allot of things about JM and I certainly won't be jumping at your throat for that comment. I will However defend him when someone says that he hasn't proven anything yet, I mean what kind of a reason is that to justify disliking a coach, considering he has over a 1000 games in the NHL and over 600 wins in career. and the no stanley cup crap to prove he sucked, is lame because the counter argument would be this means Jean Perron was a great coach...That before coaching the New Jersey Devils who had a system put in place by Jacques Lemaire, Pat Burns was a bad coach but by winning in New Jersey it magically transformed him into a great coach.

BeerHell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:28 PM
  #64
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
You can't analyze the decision outside of its context.

Spacek had already been hurt, so Weber was shifted from the 4th line to fill the hole in the defense. This essentially took using the 4th line as an option out of the game early (unless one or a combination of Gionta/Cole/AKost were double-shifted in Weber's RW place on the fourth line). When Cammy was injured, that created a hole at LW on the top line.

The replacement options were Darche, AKost (out of position) or Moen. Keep in mind that this was still fairly early in the game. Moving AKost up to that line would leave Martin with a third line of:

Darche-Desharnais-Moen (out of position)/Engqvist (out of position)

That third line is a lot worse than the third line with AKost (in position) on it. It would probably see reduced ES icetime and force Martin to ride primarily his top 6 horses for two and a half periods.

Shifting Moen up to the first line might not give the line the offensive flair AKost would have, but it did allow for a much better balance in all of the lines, while it also allowed every remaining forward to stay at their ideal position. The only guy who really got the short end of the stick was Engqvist (which is inconsequential, IMO).

In adjusting the lines, Martin had the choice of dramatically impacting 2 of the 3 lines he had left to work with while playing 2 of his top 9 forwards out of position, or affecting only one line while retaining all of his top nine forwards in position. Considering that the team was winning at the time, he chose the less disruptive option and it worked out well.

Heading into tonight's game, Martin's decided to keep the top nine as it worked last game and sub Eller and Palushaj into the vacancies on the fourth line. This isn't a long-term endorsement of Moen as a top forward, but more maintaining consistency in line groupings and avoiding trying to fix what wasn't broken last game.

I would also venture to guess that Martin is keeping AKost with Desharnais/Darche with a solid eye to the future when Eller steps into centering that line.

Nothing that Martin has done is unconventional whatsoever. It's pretty much Bench Management 101.
Worth quoting this post because it needs to be read re-read. People see Moen on the first line and they immediately assume JM thinks he's a top 6 player. Worst part is JM explains it every day. It's all about balancing your lines.

This is incidentally one of the reasons why JM is one of the league's most underrated coaches. His approach is excellent when it comes to dealing with injuries. If you look at the injuries the Habs have sustained over the years he's been here and what he's done with that team it's really quite amazing.

Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
  #65
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,954
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
You can't analyze the decision outside of its context.

Spacek had already been hurt, so Weber was shifted from the 4th line to fill the hole in the defense. This essentially took using the 4th line as an option out of the game early (unless one or a combination of Gionta/Cole/AKost were double-shifted in Weber's RW place on the fourth line). When Cammy was injured, that created a hole at LW on the top line.

The replacement options were Darche, AKost (out of position) or Moen. Keep in mind that this was still fairly early in the game. Moving AKost up to that line would leave Martin with a third line of:

Darche-Desharnais-Moen (out of position)/Engqvist (out of position)

That third line is a lot worse than the third line with AKost (in position) on it. It would probably see reduced ES icetime and force Martin to ride primarily his top 6 horses for two and a half periods.

Shifting Moen up to the first line might not give the line the offensive flair AKost would have, but it did allow for a much better balance in all of the lines, while it also allowed every remaining forward to stay at their ideal position. The only guy who really got the short end of the stick was Engqvist (which is inconsequential, IMO).

In adjusting the lines, Martin had the choice of dramatically impacting 2 of the 3 lines he had left to work with while playing 2 of his top 9 forwards out of position, or affecting only one line while retaining all of his top nine forwards in position. Considering that the team was winning at the time, he chose the less disruptive option and it worked out well.

Heading into tonight's game, Martin's decided to keep the top nine as it worked last game and sub Eller and Palushaj into the vacancies on the fourth line. This isn't a long-term endorsement of Moen as a top forward, but more maintaining consistency in line groupings and avoiding trying to fix what wasn't broken last game.

I would also venture to guess that Martin is keeping AKost with Desharnais/Darche with a solid eye to the future when Eller steps into centering that line.

Nothing that Martin has done is unconventional whatsoever. It's pretty much Bench Management 101.
The logic is there, but I would of preferred to give AK a chance to see what he can do with Pleks and Cole. We've seen AK play LW with Kovalev, so it's not really a stretch, and Moen and Darche really caring if they play LW or RW, give me a break. In a game we're winning, I think I would agree with your logic, so for this game fine I agree that JM made the right decision, but it's when we're losing I find that JM isn't that great with trying to be creative (although I understand this has nothing to do with my early statement)

I guess we have to wait to see what happens tonight and go from there.

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 03:00 PM
  #66
LyleOdelein
Registered User
 
LyleOdelein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Renfrew
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
The logic is there, but I would of preferred to give AK a chance to see what he can do with Pleks and Cole. We've seen AK play LW with Kovalev, so it's not really a stretch, and Moen and Darche really caring if they play LW or RW, give me a break. In a game we're winning, I think I would agree with your logic, so for this game fine I agree that JM made the right decision, but it's when we're losing I find that JM isn't that great with trying to be creative (although I understand this has nothing to do with my early statement)

I guess we have to wait to see what happens tonight and go from there.
I completely agree that the shift from LW/RW isn't a massive life-changing alteration, but it does significantly affect playing both in the offensive and defensive zone.

That specific situation left very few options for Martin though and I think he would've made the same decision in a one goal game either way to maintain a relatively balanced attack.

Rest assured that Moen's existence in the top 6 will be short and will probably end soon after it stops resulting in production. His stints in this role are always that way (rightfully so). However, depending on further injuries and how quickly Eller gets up to speed you might want to prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that Darche sees time as Cammy's placeholder before AKost does.

LyleOdelein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 03:08 PM
  #67
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
I completely agree that the shift from LW/RW isn't a massive life-changing alteration, but it does significantly affect playing both in the offensive and defensive zone.

That specific situation left very few options for Martin though and I think he would've made the same decision in a one goal game either way to maintain a relatively balanced attack.

Rest assured that Moen's existence in the top 6 will be short and will probably end soon after it stops resulting in production. His stints in this role are always that way (rightfully so). However, depending on further injuries and how quickly Eller gets up to speed you might want to prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that Darche sees time as Cammy's placeholder before AKost does.
Before trying AK with Plekanec I'd like to see Eller get up to speed and see him added to AK and DD to see if that line can provide strong secondary scoring. Eller and AK had success in the past and I think DD could be a good fit with two bigger guys who also have the skill to play at his level.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 03:54 PM
  #68
Nails Jenkins
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
You can't analyze the decision outside of its context.

Spacek had already been hurt, so Weber was shifted from the 4th line to fill the hole in the defense. This essentially took using the 4th line as an option out of the game early (unless one or a combination of Gionta/Cole/AKost were double-shifted in Weber's RW place on the fourth line). When Cammy was injured, that created a hole at LW on the top line.

The replacement options were Darche, AKost (out of position) or Moen. Keep in mind that this was still fairly early in the game. Moving AKost up to that line would leave Martin with a third line of:

Darche-Desharnais-Moen (out of position)/Engqvist (out of position)

That third line is a lot worse than the third line with AKost (in position) on it. It would probably see reduced ES icetime and force Martin to ride primarily his top 6 horses for two and a half periods.

Shifting Moen up to the first line might not give the line the offensive flair AKost would have, but it did allow for a much better balance in all of the lines, while it also allowed every remaining forward to stay at their ideal position. The only guy who really got the short end of the stick was Engqvist (which is inconsequential, IMO).

In adjusting the lines, Martin had the choice of dramatically impacting 2 of the 3 lines he had left to work with while playing 2 of his top 9 forwards out of position, or affecting only one line while retaining all of his top nine forwards in position. Considering that the team was winning at the time, he chose the less disruptive option and it worked out well.

Heading into tonight's game, Martin's decided to keep the top nine as it worked last game and sub Eller and Palushaj into the vacancies on the fourth line. This isn't a long-term endorsement of Moen as a top forward, but more maintaining consistency in line groupings and avoiding trying to fix what wasn't broken last game.

I would also venture to guess that Martin is keeping AKost with Desharnais/Darche with a solid eye to the future when Eller steps into centering that line.

Nothing that Martin has done is unconventional whatsoever. It's pretty much Bench Management 101.
I couldn't agree more with this statement. As I see it running a garbage line out there one third of the time is not going to cut it. Moen and Darche can be effective used in a complimentary role, but neither are particularly creative on their own. Has everyone also forgotten that Moen was stellar on that line? Even if you don't agree with Martin's decision, can't you give him credit for getting it right afterwards?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Sorry, your arguement doesn't hold water. Because Martin has over 1000 games and has won NOTHING. So yes i would take the rookie before the one who had his chance and did nothing. And i never said GARANTEED, nice try though.
Really, because you mispelled GARANTEE twice.

The irony is that you're the one making the bold blanket statements and not offering any insight to back them up while calling out others for offering their opinions. You incited them buddy.

Nails Jenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 05:14 PM
  #69
Habs13
Registered User
 
Habs13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: England
Posts: 5,229
vCash: 500
JM is a Dilbert.

Habs13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 05:42 PM
  #70
TheWhiteIdea
Registered User
 
TheWhiteIdea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: DirtyJerz
Country: United States
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
The day this dope, JM, gets fired will be one of the better days in Habs history since 1993.

TheWhiteIdea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 05:51 PM
  #71
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
The problem with your 'analysis' is that it doesn't prove anything as Boucher has never won ANY type of championship, no Memorial cup, no Calder cup and no Stanley cup. He sure is good at motivating players, but he always gets beaten in the playoffs by better defensive teams. It happened in the Juniors (twice, I think), happened in the AHL (vs Stars), and lo and behold, it happened again in the NHL (vs Boston).

As of right now, both coaches went as far in the NHL. I don't doubt Boucher is better at motivating players, and I don't doubt that your negative bias vs Martin makes you blind to the emotion that the Hab players DO display on the ice. If Martin didn't strike a chord with the locker room, you wouldn't see this level of commitment/dedication and effort from players.
I dont have a negative bias against Martin. I simply think that he is not an effective or motivational coach.

He has a decent system for defense and is very basic on offense. We could be an awesome puck possession team like Detroit with our skill players but for whatever reason, we are not. Martin's system does not work well with smaller players being in the majority on offense.

Martin is not a good handler of his players. He picks a few whipping boys each season and rides them out of town for making mistakes that other players make without reprimand. No way in hell is that conductive to team building as it builds apathy and animosity.

No bias here. Just observations. There is a reason Scotty Bowman won 9 Cups with 3 different teams and Jacques Martin has won none. He was the ultimate motivator of his players and his players respected him. May not have liked him all the time........but they always respected him.

SouthernHab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 05:55 PM
  #72
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I dont have a negative bias against Martin. I simply think that he is not an effective or motivational coach.

He has a decent system for defense and is very basic on offense. We could be an awesome puck possession team like Detroit with our skill players but for whatever reason, we are not. Martin's system does not work well with smaller players being in the majority on offense.

Martin is not a good handler of his players. He picks a few whipping boys each season and rides them out of town for making mistakes that other players make without reprimand. No way in hell is that conductive to team building as it builds apathy and animosity.

No bias here. Just observations. There is a reason Scotty Bowman won 9 Cups with 3 different teams and Jacques Martin has won none. He was the ultimate motivator of his players and his players respected him. May not have liked him all the time........but they always respected him.
No need to lie about it.

ECWHSWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 05:58 PM
  #73
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
Ohhhh you mad
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In space..with goats
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Why? I could do the same job that JM does and get the same result. Sit behind the bench, jot a few notes down and not win a Stanley Cup.
I'm sure you would complain about taxes in Quebec

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 06:00 PM
  #74
Westcoasthabsfan
Registered User
 
Westcoasthabsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In Pandoras Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,242
vCash: 500
I dont care where Cole plays as long as he scores

Westcoasthabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 06:05 PM
  #75
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerHell View Post
Now you're talking...and you have every right to that opinion, I actually don'T like allot of things about JM and I certainly won't be jumping at your throat for that comment. I will However defend him when someone says that he hasn't proven anything yet, I mean what kind of a reason is that to justify disliking a coach, considering he has over a 1000 games in the NHL and over 600 wins in career. and the no stanley cup crap to prove he sucked, is lame because the counter argument would be this means Jean Perron was a great coach...That before coaching the New Jersey Devils who had a system put in place by Jacques Lemaire, Pat Burns was a bad coach but by winning in New Jersey it magically transformed him into a great coach.
If you are wanting to win 2nd Place, Jacques Martin is head and shoulders above the majority of the other NHL coaches.

Dont take this personally. I am merely making an observation.

The biggest majority of posters here have never seen the Canadiens (live......not on YouTube) skate on the ice as they are carrying the Stanley Cup held high above their heads and passing it on to their teammates. They did not feel the joy and exhiliration of the Habs winning another Cup as we watched it either in the Forum or on TV. Nothing, and I mean nothing.......not even watching my favorite football team, the Green Bay Packers win the Super Bowl last year.........compares to that feeling. (sports related, of course )

So I see people posting here happy that JM got us to the playoffs and even to the E. final series. Sorry, but that is not even close to the ultimate goal. That is just an average season.......which unfortunately has become the norm in Montreal and is accepted as success. And along with that, Jacques Martin is just an average coach who has been around long enough to run up some wins and participate in 1000 games without a Cup.......which is just an average career.

We need new blood in Montreal so some of you younger posters can finally understand what it feels like to win the Cup. Martin will not get you there. (sadly because I think he will be here for a while longer)

SouthernHab is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.