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I can't help thinking, MOLLER BLEW IT!

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Old
10-06-2011, 02:27 PM
  #1
triplcrown
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I can't help thinking, MOLLER BLEW IT!

I know he's been pigeon-holed as a top-6 player, but I just can't help thinking that Oscar, with all his speed, passion, work ethic and good skills, could have added some more "peskiness" to his game w/o the puck (Swedes are generally well-trained defensively
from a young age),
and adapted himself to RW on our 3rd line with Clifford and Stoll.

I just don't get it--Is he that bad defensively that he would have had no chance? Really??

I have a hard time buying that.

Oscar should have stayed stateside and gone for that
3rd line RW position, jostling with the (IMO) beatable likes
of Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau.

I know, I know, it doesn't matter much now.

But when Swedish Elite League season ends next spring, perhaps Oscar can go for it then?

I just can't imagine Hunter or Moreau being good all season for us--Oscar might
find his opening then, maybe?


WORK ON YOUR DEFENSE, OSCAR!!!!


Last edited by triplcrown: 10-06-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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10-06-2011, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triplcrown View Post
I know he's been pigeon-holed as a top-6 player, but I just can't help thinking that Oscar, with all his speed, passion, work ethic and good skills, could have added some more "peskiness" to his game w/o the puck (Swedes are generally well-trained defensively
from a young age),
and adapted himself to RW on our 3rd line with Clifford and Stoll.

I just don't get it--Is he that bad defensively that he would have had no chance? Really??

I have a hard time buying that.

Oscar should have stayed stateside and gone for that
3rd line RW position, jostling with the (IMO) beatable likes
of Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau.
Oscar's fatal flaw is his size. He's just too easy to knock off the puck in the NHL. It sucks, because I think he's a great kid otherwise - in attitude, heart, and skill. If only he had more of the 4th requirement: size.

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10-06-2011, 02:42 PM
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Terry has a woody for Parse so it doesn't matter because he would have made it over Oscar. Wing or C it doesn't matter, Parse>>>>>>>>>>>Everyone.


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10-06-2011, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Oscar's fatal flaw is his size. He's just too easy to knock off the puck in the NHL. It sucks, because I think he's a great kid otherwise - in attitude, heart, and skill. If only he had more of the 4th requirement: size.
Disagree.

Moller is 5'11" 180lbs. There are plenty of smaller players in the league. It certainly doesn't help, but I don't think it's the primary reason for his struggles.

Right now, Oscar doesn't really have NHL level skills in any facet of the game IMO. Not a quick skater, has a weak shot, mediocre stick handler and probably below average hockey sense. Not really good at anything by NHL standards.

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10-06-2011, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Disagree.

Moller is 5'11" 180lbs. There are plenty of smaller players in the league. It certainly doesn't help, but I don't think it's the primary reason for his struggles.

Right now, Oscar doesn't really have NHL level skills in any facet of the game IMO. Not a quick skater, has a weak shot, mediocre stick handler and probably below average hockey sense. Not really good at anything by NHL standards.
Are you sure about those stats? He always LOOKED smaller than that. Anyhow, I think you're right about above his skating. If you're going to be a smaller player in the NHL, you need to be fast or at least strong on your skates. Moller just wasn't. He didn't have the pure speed to run away from or around defenders, and he wasn't strong enough on his skates to play effectively in traffic.

Edit: Thinking on it more, I'd say it's not so much the lack of SKILLS overall, so much as size and not being a good enough skater to compensate.


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10-06-2011, 03:12 PM
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He'll be back. It is not like he is banished never to return. It may not eventually be LA, but he will be a NHL player in the not-so-distant future.

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10-06-2011, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
Are you sure about those stats? He always LOOKED smaller than that. Anyhow, I think you're right about above about his skills, especially his skating. If you're going to be a smaller player in the NHL, you need to be fast or at least strong on your skates. Moller just wasn't. He didn't have the pure speed to run away from or around defenders, and he wasn't strong enough on his skates to play effectively in traffic.
Those stats are from Hockeydb. He's listed at either 5'10''/5'11" and between 177-189lbs on pretty much every website I've seen.

I think people get the impression that he's smaller than he is because he's knocked off the puck so easily and has a youthful baby face.


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10-06-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
Edit: Thinking on it more, I'd say it's not so much the lack of SKILLS overall, so much as size and not being a good enough skater to compensate.
Cammalleri is 5'9" 182lbs and is probably as slow, or slower than Moller. The difference is that Cammy has a skill; he can snipe, and has the hockey sense to put himself in the right position and get open.

What's Moller's skill? What's he good at? At this point in time, I don't see any of his talents being anything more than mediocre by NHL standards.

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10-06-2011, 04:29 PM
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Moller was brought up into the NHL too soon. He also has to pass through waivers now, which considering his lack of NHL skill at this moment in time, is a problem for teams. They would probably prefer to shuttle him back and forth freely at this point.

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10-06-2011, 04:47 PM
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The Kings messed up with his development and now he went to Europe to get in what maybe considered better games than the AHL. I don't blame him, but it wouldn't surprise me if he'd be back in 1-2 years.

5 points in 8 games for Moller in Skelleftea. The team is also in 2nd place in the SEL

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10-06-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Cammalleri is 5'9" 182lbs and is probably as slow, or slower than Moller. The difference is that Cammy has a skill; he can snipe, and has the hockey sense to put himself in the right position and get open.

What's Moller's skill? What's he good at? At this point in time, I don't see any of his talents being anything more than mediocre by NHL standards.
You make a good point about Cammalleri's specialty. He knows that he's a shooter first and foremost, and he knows how to make the most of that skill.

Comparing him to Moller, I would argue Cammalleri also has a lower center of gravity; he isn't a tank, but he can manage the puck in traffic and along the boards.

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10-06-2011, 05:19 PM
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The Kings messed up with his development and now he went to Europe to get in what maybe considered better games than the AHL. I don't blame him, but it wouldn't surprise me if he'd be back in 1-2 years.

5 points in 8 games for Moller in Skelleftea. The team is also in 2nd place in the SEL
People keep saying this about European players. I don't mean to single you out or anything, it's just a really common claim made about Moller, Voynov, and Loktionov. People keep saying that if these guys go to Europe, they'll be back. Maybe it's just me, that just seems really unlikely. These guys will be playing much closer to home, making more money than they made in the lower levels here. Why would they come back to North America if they spent several years here and didn't make it? My assumption is that if a European player goes back to Europe, he's gone.

Are there any examples of European players that come to North America, play in junior hockey or the minors, go back to Europe, and then come back to the NHL?

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10-06-2011, 05:29 PM
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Whatever height equivalent there is to "dog years", you need to apply that to Moller being listed as 5'10".

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10-06-2011, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
The Kings messed up with his development and now he went to Europe to get in what maybe considered better games than the AHL. I don't blame him, but it wouldn't surprise me if he'd be back in 1-2 years.

5 points in 8 games for Moller in Skelleftea. The team is also in 2nd place in the SEL
Bull****! I am so tired of reading stuff like this. HOW did the Kings "mess up his development?"

Pls give examples: what TM or DL did to mess him up? Seriously.

He came here, he was given ice time, he got pushed off the puck constantly, and he rarely scored. ALL that's on the Kings and none of it on Moller?!

SEL success?? So what? I seem to remember a "can't miss goalie" prospect in Manchester (awesome stats dude!!) that was going to solve our goalie problems for a generation. Now he's barely hanging on in the NHL as a backup.

If Moller makes it back to the NHL, I'd be very surprised. Good for him if he does - but it certainly ain't the Kings' fault he's in Sweden now. Even he knows that.

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10-06-2011, 06:12 PM
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Moller is just too small and slight to make a big impact in the NHL. He needs a bigger frame.

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10-06-2011, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
He's listed at either 5'10''/5'11" and between 177-189lbs on pretty much every website I've seen.
That's with his skates and skate guards - and helmet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I think people get the impression that he's smaller than he is because he's knocked off the puck so easily and has a youthful baby face.
ya think?

I WISH Moller had been.... better. But I wish that about many ex-Kings.

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10-06-2011, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Bull****! I am so tired of reading stuff like this. HOW did the Kings "mess up his development?"

Pls give examples: what TM or DL did to mess him up? Seriously.

He came here, he was given ice time, he got pushed off the puck constantly, and he rarely scored. ALL that's on the Kings and none of it on Moller?!

SEL success?? So what? I seem to remember a "can't miss goalie" prospect in Manchester (awesome stats dude!!) that was going to solve our goalie problems for a generation. Now he's barely hanging on in the NHL as a backup.

If Moller makes it back to the NHL, I'd be very surprised. Good for him if he does - but it certainly ain't the Kings' fault he's in Sweden now. Even he knows that.
He shouldn't have been in the NHL in the first place. It was a bad decision on management's part to bring him up and keep him around for the 08-09 season, started the clock on his ELC and waiver eligibility which was a mistake. I don't think he was anything special, so I don't care, but certainly that decision hindered his growth as a hockey player. In his case, and many others, it's clearly a better decision to give the kid ice time in the league they should be playing in, not the big time.

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10-06-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Those stats are from Hockeydb. He's listed at either 5'10''/5'11" and between 177-189lbs on pretty much every website I've seen.

I think people get the impression that he's smaller than he is because he's knocked off the puck so easily and has a youthful baby face.
When does his adult tooth grow into that gap anyways?

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10-06-2011, 10:31 PM
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I don't think Moller made a mistake going back to Europe. He talked it over with management, they agreed on a plan and he went. there have been other guy who have gone there and come back a lot better. Remember Robert Lang? Hopefully this time we get to benefit if Moller comes back and makes the NHL.

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10-06-2011, 11:21 PM
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I never saw Moller as an NHL player. He's way too small.

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10-07-2011, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
People keep saying this about European players. I don't mean to single you out or anything, it's just a really common claim made about Moller, Voynov, and Loktionov. People keep saying that if these guys go to Europe, they'll be back. Maybe it's just me, that just seems really unlikely. These guys will be playing much closer to home, making more money than they made in the lower levels here. Why would they come back to North America if they spent several years here and didn't make it? My assumption is that if a European player goes back to Europe, he's gone.

Are there any examples of European players that come to North America, play in junior hockey or the minors, go back to Europe, and then come back to the NHL?
It's my opinion he'll be back judging on his wording and interviews he's given. I think you see more American/Canadian born players who will have a stalled career and go over to Europe and play successfully over there and become players in the NHL(Rafalski, Thomas even Derek Armstrong). Viktor Tikhonov maybe one that has done it recently but even this point is a bit flawed considering Viktor played his jr hockey in Russia but he spent a lot of time living in San Jose.

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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Bull****! I am so tired of reading stuff like this. HOW did the Kings "mess up his development?"

Pls give examples: what TM or DL did to mess him up? Seriously.

He came here, he was given ice time, he got pushed off the puck constantly, and he rarely scored. ALL that's on the Kings and none of it on Moller?!

SEL success?? So what? I seem to remember a "can't miss goalie" prospect in Manchester (awesome stats dude!!) that was going to solve our goalie problems for a generation. Now he's barely hanging on in the NHL as a backup.

If Moller makes it back to the NHL, I'd be very surprised. Good for him if he does - but it certainly ain't the Kings' fault he's in Sweden now. Even he knows that.
Lets start with him making the roster at 19, when he could have been sent back to Chilliwack. They don't send him back to Jrs and make him a regular player. Then they send him to the WJC Tournament where he has a sub-par tournament considering the stakes and him already having NHL experience. He gets injured and now has to rehab this injury and when he does he plays tentative and doesn't get ice time with anyone of value.

Second year they are able to send him to Manchester and he has a decent season down in Manchester and an underwhelming season playing on the Kings with only 7 points in 34 games. Development year that's fine.

Third year the Kings are inevitably better and he doesn't make the squad and comes up for a come games in September and has a decent couple of games with a couple of points.

Here's what I consider the major **** up by Terry Murray. When Williams goes down late in the year you place him on a line with Kopitar and Penner until Kopitar goes down in the second game he's up. Now the line juggling stars and Moller ends up all over the place and again ends up on a weaker lines(I would pull up line combos but ****ing Dobberhockey now charges for them, so they can go **** themselves). Plus at this time the Kings couldn't score or win worth ****. Only winning 2 games in regulation(Edmonton and Dallas) and one in a shootout(Phoenix) since Anze goes down. Doesn't help confidence.

Then we hit the playoffs and becomes a sub after Stoll gets suspended in Game 1. Moller actually has a decent game and is a +1 screening the goalie on Doughty's second goal of the night. Stoll comes back in game three and you scratch Moller(I'd usually want Westgarth out of the lineup but Westgarth played a pretty damn good six games). Move on to Game 5, Murray decides to scratch Ponikarovsky. He puts in Scott ****ing Parse, I'm sorry but here's your biggest jackass decision. You put in a player who hasn't played since November and throw him into a playoff game? If you're going to scratch Poni then you have to throw someone who has played recently. It was an awful decision and he stuck with it in Game 6 and Parse directly cost the Kings a goal with his ****ing bonehead play by not covering Jason Demers. Parse never saw the ice for the rest of the game. Just absolutely stupid, instead of showing Moller that you're willing to go with him and in a crucial situation you end up with Parse coming off an injury. What message does this show to Moller? Really it doesn't show that you value him at that time, but some bum with a bad hip who hasn't played since November gets ice time. This wasn't a top player. It was a mistake by Terry Murray plain and simple.

The size excuse is the biggest ******** I see on this board. He was willing to play tough which not everyone did on that team last season.

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10-07-2011, 08:54 AM
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It's my opinion he'll be back judging on his wording and interviews he's given. I think you see more American/Canadian born players who will have a stalled career and go over to Europe and play successfully over there and become players in the NHL(Rafalski, Thomas even Derek Armstrong). Viktor Tikhonov maybe one that has done it recently but even this point is a bit flawed considering Viktor played his jr hockey in Russia but he spent a lot of time living in San Jose.



Lets start with him making the roster at 19, when he could have been sent back to Chilliwack. They don't send him back to Jrs and make him a regular player. Then they send him to the WJC Tournament where he has a sub-par tournament considering the stakes and him already having NHL experience. He gets injured and now has to rehab this injury and when he does he plays tentative and doesn't get ice time with anyone of value.

Second year they are able to send him to Manchester and he has a decent season down in Manchester and an underwhelming season playing on the Kings with only 7 points in 34 games. Development year that's fine.

Third year the Kings are inevitably better and he doesn't make the squad and comes up for a come games in September and has a decent couple of games with a couple of points.

Here's what I consider the major **** up by Terry Murray. When Williams goes down late in the year you place him on a line with Kopitar and Penner until Kopitar goes down in the second game he's up. Now the line juggling stars and Moller ends up all over the place and again ends up on a weaker lines(I would pull up line combos but ****ing Dobberhockey now charges for them, so they can go **** themselves). Plus at this time the Kings couldn't score or win worth ****. Only winning 2 games in regulation(Edmonton and Dallas) and one in a shootout(Phoenix) since Anze goes down. Doesn't help confidence.

Then we hit the playoffs and becomes a sub after Stoll gets suspended in Game 1. Moller actually has a decent game and is a +1 screening the goalie on Doughty's second goal of the night. Stoll comes back in game three and you scratch Moller(I'd usually want Westgarth out of the lineup but Westgarth played a pretty damn good six games). Move on to Game 5, Murray decides to scratch Ponikarovsky. He puts in Scott ****ing Parse, I'm sorry but here's your biggest jackass decision. You put in a player who hasn't played since November and throw him into a playoff game? If you're going to scratch Poni then you have to throw someone who has played recently. It was an awful decision and he stuck with it in Game 6 and Parse directly cost the Kings a goal with his ****ing bonehead play by not covering Jason Demers. Parse never saw the ice for the rest of the game. Just absolutely stupid, instead of showing Moller that you're willing to go with him and in a crucial situation you end up with Parse coming off an injury. What message does this show to Moller? Really it doesn't show that you value him at that time, but some bum with a bad hip who hasn't played since November gets ice time. This wasn't a top player. It was a mistake by Terry Murray plain and simple.

The size excuse is the biggest ******** I see on this board. He was willing to play tough which not everyone did on that team last season.
Good post.

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10-13-2011, 09:57 PM
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SEL success?? So what? I seem to remember a "can't miss goalie" prospect in Manchester (awesome stats dude!!) that was going to solve our goalie problems for a generation. Now he's barely hanging on in the NHL as a backup.

If Moller makes it back to the NHL, I'd be very surprised. Good for him if he does - but it certainly ain't the Kings' fault he's in Sweden now. Even he knows that.
Well the team that he plays for in Sweden ( same as Bud ) sent four player to the NHL this season.
Adam Larsson, David Rundblad, Joakim Lindstrom and Tim Erixon... So he went to a club that are good at developing players and makeing em ready for the NHL. So next year i think we will se both Moller and Holloway back with the Kings better then ever..

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10-13-2011, 10:08 PM
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Dang, you guys got my hopes up. I saw that picture of Moller and thought the homer had graced us with his presence. I was really looking forward to a good laugh.

"Patrick Kane was a passenger on the Hawks cup team"

"I'd rather have Teubert than Cammalleri"

"Smyth is better than Kovalchuk and Gaborik"

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10-13-2011, 10:35 PM
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Dang, you guys got my hopes up. I saw that picture of Moller and thought the homer had graced us with his presence. I was really looking forward to a good laugh.

"Patrick Kane was a passenger on the Hawks cup team"

"I'd rather have Teubert than Cammalleri"

"Smyth is better than Kovalchuk and Gaborik"
Cammalleri has been one of the two things I hated Dean Lombardi doing. Once I looked at the numbers (Cammi vs the West). I eat some crow big time. Cammi owns west teams.

the other is Teubert, Passing on Tyler Myers.

Some people don't like the Lubo dump either. But I think it's an ok move.


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