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Does Martin have a plan

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Old
10-14-2011, 03:47 AM
  #26
Fifthgear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
JM's Plan...

Step 1 - Carey Price

Step 2 - If Step 1 fails look confused.
Exactly!

That´s the plan game after game!

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Old
10-14-2011, 05:12 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Posted this in the PGT, I guess I'll just quote it
I agree, I wonder if Subban's injury is still playing a role in his poor performance and can't continually make up for Gill's terrible foot speed, having said that, Subban looked like the player out of position most of the time, not Gill, he got caught up ice way too many times to count. He almost got caught again with a poor decision to pinch. If he continues to play like this, I can see him visiting the press box for a game or two.

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Old
10-14-2011, 08:08 AM
  #28
Perrah
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I agree, I wonder if Subban's injury is still playing a role in his poor performance and can't continually make up for Gill's terrible foot speed, having said that, Subban looked like the player out of position most of the time, not Gill, he got caught up ice way too many times to count. He almost got caught again with a poor decision to pinch. If he continues to play like this, I can see him visiting the press box for a game or two.
Yeah PK has been brutal so far, but he wont be seeing any pressbox time atleast until markov is back because they need him and dont really have anyone to replace him with. From reading the GDT seems like an good portion thought Emelin wasnt good, but I thought he was solid and looked poised with the puck minus one bad pass in the 3rd. Kinda ****** that its gill and subban screwing the pooch when most expected them to try and hold it together.

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Old
10-14-2011, 08:15 AM
  #29
Ketzlaf
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HFBoard's list of things it thinks a coach actually does.

1. LINE COMBOS!

That is all. If you do not agree with the line combos, you are better than the current coach!

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Old
10-14-2011, 08:31 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Jacques Martin's apparent game plan.

Lines: Use a strong defensive unit to counter opposing team's best players as primary matchup line.
Moen-Plekanec-Cole (best defensive center, 2nd and 3rd best defensive wingers (Gionta best)
Use proven line as primary offensive unit and 2nd matchup line
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
Assemble strong offensive third line to take relatively large amount of even strength icetime against weaker opponents.
Kostitsyn-Desharnais-Darche
Exile most uncertain players to limited minutes on the 4th line. If Eller plays well promote later in the game.
Eller-Engqvist-Palushaj.

Power play:
Use players with stronger track record of powerplay production over those with weaker

Power play performance over the past 4 years.
Desharnais
Points per 60 minutes 5 on 4: 5.33
Team Goals per 60 minutes 5 on 4: 8.38

Darche:
Points per 60 minutes 5 on 4: 5.33
Team Goals per 60 minutes 5 on 4: 10.63

Cole:
Points per 60 minutes 5 on 4: 2.65
Team Goals per 60 minutes 5 on 4: 5.73

Some of these decisions proved wrong but if you look for them you can find the reasons. Personally I would have gone with Kostitsyn on the first line, Eller centering the third line from the start and Moen down on the fourth. As well as a Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Cole/Subban-Weber first PP unit (replace Weber with Emelin on the second) and subbed out Cole with someone else if it wasn't working. But that doesn't mean the coach's reasons are as unfathomable as some of you make them out to be.

Plekanec on the point definitely should be scraped though.
Good post.

JM is an NHL coach for a reason. There is logic in his decisions. Unfortunately some like to **** on the coach so much, that they can't look past it.

The coach is behind the bench... the players are on the ice. You can have the greatest plan in the world, but if the players play like crap you are gonna lose. The players played like crap last night... easier to blame the coach though.

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Old
10-14-2011, 09:10 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
One time, Martin grimaced after a penalty and now does it every time.
So therefore it wasn't one time it's just always been every time.

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10-14-2011, 09:38 AM
  #32
Perrah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Good post.

JM is an NHL coach for a reason. There is logic in his decisions. Unfortunately some like to **** on the coach so much, that they can't look past it.

The coach is behind the bench... the players are on the ice. You can have the greatest plan in the world, but if the players play like crap you are gonna lose. The players played like crap last night... easier to blame the coach though.
Some of his decisions are baffling, last years revolving door of players to get sucked into the black hole of gomez when they were playing well on other lines and pleks on the point, they have been better scoring chances against on the PP with them out there so far this season. I noticed he put eller up to the third last night, there is no reason that the 3rd line shouldnt be AK-Eller-DD and have darche on the 4th line. I think most know the players played like garbage for 2/3 of the Toronto game and floated through this game so he isnt to blame. I dont mind moen on the first line he has been good so far this year, cole was a bum last night ....so weak on the puck.

Seems like in games we outshoot people we get "habbed" if you want to call it that in the fact that we give up way more quality chances while giving up significantly less shots.

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Old
10-14-2011, 09:57 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
HFBoard's list of things it thinks a coach actually does.

1. LINE COMBOS!

That is all. If you do not agree with the line combos, you are better than the current coach!
There's also

2. WRITING IN A NOTEBOOK.

So I guess you'd need a notebook, and a pen.

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10-14-2011, 09:58 AM
  #34
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I was hoping his plan was to coach.. lol Seriously, give him some slack, he's already had to replace a few injuries after the second game of the season.

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Old
10-14-2011, 10:06 AM
  #35
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I agree, I wonder if Subban's injury is still playing a role in his poor performance and can't continually make up for Gill's terrible foot speed, having said that, Subban looked like the player out of position most of the time, not Gill, he got caught up ice way too many times to count. He almost got caught again with a poor decision to pinch. If he continues to play like this, I can see him visiting the press box for a game or two.
Perhaps, but as you said, being injured shouldn't make him take bad decisions.
I'm not worried, I'm sure things will get back on track, like it happened to Myers.
But Martin has to put PK and Gorges together. As good as PK is, he's still just a kid in his sophomore year, he can't carry Gill anymore, so make your two best play together.
Weber needs to play more and Gill less. He played 20min yesterday and handled himself very well.

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Old
10-14-2011, 10:07 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
HFBoard's list of things it thinks a coach actually does.

1. LINE COMBOS!

That is all. If you do not agree with the line combos, you are better than the current coach!
Not going to lie, I laughed

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Old
10-14-2011, 10:27 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Perhaps, but as you said, being injured shouldn't make him take bad decisions.
I'm not worried, I'm sure things will get back on track, like it happened to Myers.
But Martin has to put PK and Gorges together. As good as PK is, he's still just a kid in his sophomore year, he can't carry Gill anymore, so make your two best play together.
Weber needs to play more and Gill less. He played 20min yesterday and handled himself very well.
He did. From RDS.

"En raison des ennuis de ses défenseurs au premier tiers, Martin et ses adjoints ont modifié les duos. P.K. Subban, qui a connu une soirée difficile, s’est retrouvé avec Josh Gorges tandis que Gill a été muté avec Raphael Diaz alors que Yannick Weber est demeuré avec Alexei Emelin."

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Old
10-14-2011, 10:33 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Some of his decisions are baffling, last years revolving door of players to get sucked into the black hole of gomez when they were playing well on other lines and pleks on the point, they have been better scoring chances against on the PP with them out there so far this season. I noticed he put eller up to the third last night, there is no reason that the 3rd line shouldnt be AK-Eller-DD and have darche on the 4th line. I think most know the players played like garbage for 2/3 of the Toronto game and floated through this game so he isnt to blame. I dont mind moen on the first line he has been good so far this year, cole was a bum last night ....so weak on the puck.

Seems like in games we outshoot people we get "habbed" if you want to call it that in the fact that we give up way more quality chances while giving up significantly less shots.
He eased Eller into the lineup, coming off an injury.

As the game went on Eller got more responsibility and Darche got less (at even strength).

That doesn't sound like bad coaching to me.



I put the blame for the loss last night solely on the players. I'm sure JM isn't telling Erik Cole to fail 4 times at clearing the puck from his own end.

I'm sure JM isn't telling the team to take stupid undisciplined penalties in the first period.

I'm sure JM isn't telling the forwards to not back check and pick up David Moss as the trailer.

The coach can only be as good as the players on the ice... and last night, the players on the ice stunk.

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Old
10-14-2011, 10:52 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketzlaf View Post
HFBoard's list of things it thinks a coach actually does.

1. LINE COMBOS!

That is all. If you do not agree with the line combos, you are better than the current coach!


Well played, sir.

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:02 AM
  #40
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For me, martin is our biggest creampuff . D-man, don't try to hit anyone out there because if you do you may get yourself out of position, resulting in the doghouse. For god sake dont start a fight cause all the fans will want PG to go out and hire a fighter, and it's not in my nature to have one of them around.
Hell, go and get saint patrick for a coach, put some excitment on the bench. I sure miss muller's smiling face there and i think a lot of players do as well. A good
players coach.

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:08 AM
  #41
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Same stuff every year from these boards lol

Regular season = hes a clueless idiot, fire him right now.
Playoffs = Defensive genius, perfect fit for this team.

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:12 AM
  #42
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Martin needs to load his top two lines with as much offense as possible and play then with two pais of defenseman until we are 100% healthy:

Now:

Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Desharnais - Eller - Palushaj
Darche - Enqvist - Moen

Gorges - Subban
Gill - Diaz
Weber - Emelin

Price
Budaj

When we are 100% healthy:

Cammalleri - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Kostitsyn - Eller - Desharnais
Darche - White - Moen

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Spacek - Diaz

Price
Budaj

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
For me, martin is our biggest creampuff . D-man, don't try to hit anyone out there because if you do you may get yourself out of position, resulting in the doghouse. For god sake dont start a fight cause all the fans will want PG to go out and hire a fighter, and it's not in my nature to have one of them around.
Hell, go and get saint patrick for a coach, put some excitment on the bench. I sure miss muller's smiling face there and i think a lot of players do as well. A good
players coach.
I am not certain on what Pearn and Cunneyworth are like behind the Bench, but will JM being the way he is, we need a players coach, an inspiring and positive force behind the bench, yes we do have a veteran group of guys who should do that anyways, but i agree that players are afraid to make mistakes because they will feel his wrath, we need a coach that understands how to motivate the players

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:22 AM
  #44
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Injuries aside, JM needs to put a couple of lines together, and let them stay together...not just for a period or two...

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:25 AM
  #45
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Please, no Gomez in th top two lines, put Elller up there he coud not be any worse and he might get Gionta going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Martin needs to load his top two lines with as much offense as possible and play then with two pais of defenseman until we are 100% healthy:

Now:

Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Desharnais - Eller - Palushaj
Darche - Enqvist - Moen

Gorges - Subban
Gill - Diaz
Weber - Emelin

Price
Budaj

When we are 100% healthy:

Cammalleri - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Kostitsyn - Eller - Desharnais
Darche - White - Moen

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Spacek - Diaz

Price
Budaj

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Old
10-14-2011, 12:32 PM
  #46
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IMO the Gomez line has been by far the most dangerous in terms of scoring chances. They simply haven't converted - timing is a tiny bit off. Gomez himself appears much better than last year - he is going hard to net and has made some excellent set-ups that unfortunately weren't put in the net.

Cole has been inexpicably ineffective so far. He has carelessly turned the puck over several times and is not nearly as tough on the puck or the body as his history suggests. Last night the forwards were very good, I thought, in the O-zone, but collective their D was horribly pathetic.

Let's face it, with Markov, Campoli and Spacek out, we are icing one of the most inexperienced D in the league in terms of NHL minutes. Good news is that Weber, Diaz and Emelin have shown a lot of promise.

Eller played great, and I hope to see him center the 3rd line on Saturday....

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Old
10-14-2011, 12:49 PM
  #47
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obviously he has a plan, and history shows that he is a pretty strong coach as far as X's and O's are concerned.

his problem has been, and remains, getting the best out of all of his players, even the ones he doesn't particularly appreciate... strikes me, from the outside, as the kind of coach who believes problems in results rest on the players inability to execute, as opposed to his inability to get more out of them.

it's a bit chicken and egg, but imo, the best coaches are the ones who are able to navigate that divide between confidence in one's approach/sticking to it at all cost and being modest enough to alter their approach (especially as far as how he treats individual players) as the situation requires it.

It's the "old school" coach as Dictator approach vs the "new school" coach as psychologist approach...

being relatively well versed in recent advances in Sports Psychology, and having seen and experienced their impact first hand, I'm firmly of the belief that the modern approach is far more effective.

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Old
10-14-2011, 12:52 PM
  #48
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Sometimes I think he just wings it and hopes Carey Price makes him look competent

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Old
10-14-2011, 01:34 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Martin needs to load his top two lines with as much offense as possible and play then with two pais of defenseman until we are 100% healthy:

Now:

Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Desharnais - Eller - Palushaj
Darche - Enqvist - Moen

Gorges - Subban
Gill - Diaz
Weber - Emelin
No matter how top heavy Martin could try to arrange his lineup, the top line does not have the players to dominate many teams' top lines. I think the Habs absolutely have to have their bottom 9 outscore their opponents to win games, even if it means the top line's offence suffers. If we had a dominant forward, things might be different, but we don't.

Fringe players like Palushaj and Engqvist need good linemates if they are going to survive. Mostly, I think the Habs need to add an established NHL forward or two. Meanwhile, Martin puts as many fingers in the leaky dam as he can.

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Old
10-14-2011, 02:02 PM
  #50
Ketzlaf
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Ignore lines. Look at our top 15 forwards. Compare that to other teams in the East. You now know the problem with the Habs.

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