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Martin says " Cole is NOT our saviour "

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Old
10-15-2011, 08:54 AM
  #26
onice
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
They don't seem to be on the same page.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/328221.html
I'm guessing French is not your first language if you're saying that. I didn't get that from the article.

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Old
10-15-2011, 09:03 AM
  #27
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
True. Martin is a proven good regular season coach that with an incredible boring system will lead their team to a better regular season standings than they should have. He has not proven ANYTHING as far as playoffs are concerned. And he's clearly not having a system that makes the regular season interesting. Not sure how I should like him for doing what he does. Regular season should be a mix of entertainment and result, yet we're not talking at least to be top 8 in a conference which shouldn't be THAT difficult. And playoffs has to be plenty about results which still remains to be seen in his case. Yet, we've bought tons of offensive players over the past years and have to bury them in a system they are a tough time to play in. Habs are just like a Ferrari in a school zone...I just don't like Martin. Don't like the fact that he doesn't communicate well with his players (based on TONS of reports from past and present players), don't like how he conducts himself behind the bench etc. Reality is that I remember how much I laughed at the Sens and their management....and now I'm stuck with it.

Yes, he does well better than some thinks he should. But it's always easier to sell that type of system in the first years of your era....we will see how he does now.

Nope. Cole isn't a saviour....as if asking a guy you pay that much to play in your top 6 and some PP time is asking Cole to be a saviour.....Jacques at his best.
Well, as I said, you can dislike the coach and his style all you want, he still deserves some credit.
As for the POs, let's not kid ourselves, there isn't even one Habs fan, even the most delusional one, that think we have/had a team worthy of the Cup. So, what should his PO success be over here? I know it's about results, but it has to be relative to your team right? Two years ago, you can put all the merit on Halak, still Martin lead the team to an ECF, he deserves credit there, no matter how lucky it was.
Last year, outside Mtl, who predicted the Habs should win? who inside Mtl didn't feel that them winning would be an upset? Has it come down to ''if you don't pull upsets than you fail''?..
Martin pushes his teams further than he can. I don't care what happened in Ottawa, it's a long time ago and we're in Mtl. So far, Martin has gotten the most out of his team. I don't think he's gotten the most out of his players individually, but as a team, I don't think we could have gotten much further.

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10-15-2011, 09:07 AM
  #28
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Cole is to help address a need...ES play...

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Old
10-15-2011, 09:08 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
This here is the proof that most Habs fans, are easily satisfied. Maybe it's just me, but just making the playoff's isn't my goal.
Let me just give you one tiny example of why i hate Martin's coaching. We get three or four straight penalties in the first period,some that were very iffy. What does Martin do to let the ref's know of his displeasure ? NOTHING. The man is zzzzzzz. Sorry to offend some of you Martin lovers.
The argument that you're a truer fan and want to win more than myself has basically no merit at all. When faced with legitimate arguments that contradict your opinion, like many others, you throw out the maybe I want to win more crap, what the hell is that all about? If you've got nothing, just say so and admit you're full of it.

I don't particularly like JM, so calling me a JM lover is another failed attempt by someone who has nothing else to offer, you've lost, get over it and find something else to complain about.


Last edited by habsjunkie2*: 10-15-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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Old
10-15-2011, 09:24 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
This here is the proof that most Habs fans, are easily satisfied. Maybe it's just me, but just making the playoff's isn't my goal.
Let me just give you one tiny example of why i hate Martin's coaching. We get three or four straight penalties in the first period,some that were very iffy. What does Martin do to let the ref's know of his displeasure ? NOTHING. The man is zzzzzzz. Sorry to offend some of you Martin lovers.
Yes, it's just you. Your demands are petulant and unreasonable. Letting refs know of your displeasure accomplishes nothing. Ask Guy Carbonneau. Your setting goals is laughable. Making the playoffs and moving up in them is the hope of every hockey fan but only 3.33% of NHL teams win the Stanley Cup each year. As for Martin's coaching, I suggest you look at the talent he's working with. If I could, I'd swap everyone for the personnel on any of several emerging teams that are more likely to win the Stanley Cup in the next few years than le Canadien.

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Old
10-15-2011, 09:26 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Erm, don't mean to be rude but... I take it you haven't heard of Montreal before

eg/. Lets say a situation arises where the Habs find themselves with two quality, young goalies on the roster. This, you might think, would be great news for fans of the team and could only be a positive that brings warmth, joy and happiness to all. And you would be wrong as the correct behaviour in such a situation (apparently) is to pick a side and then fight 'til the death.

eg/. Lets say some players talk on the phone and spend a little time in the company of someone who has committed a crime but these players have done no wrong themselves. They are perfectly innocent, as verified by the local police force. This, you might think, is an opportunity for people to get behind them, show them some support and encourage them to do great things for our team. Wrong. The best course of action here is to do your level best to run them out of town.

If the head coach says that a new player isn't the saviour of our team, then, with my experience of this fanbase, I expect this is cause to:

1. PANIC!
2. Criticise the player for not making himself the saviour of our team.
3. Criticise management for bringing in a player who isn't the saviour of our team.
4. Criticise the coaches for not treating him like the saviour of the team and then criticise them again for not coaching him into being the saviour of the team.
5. Blame Bettman (everyone needs a hobby).
6. PANIC AGAIN! (optional).

As I said, that's just my experience
Being a Canadiens' fan and far removed from the fanbase geographically I find this post to be sadly very true.

Although sad the post itself is very cleverly and hysterically written.

Edited to add something about Cole. I'm disappointed in his play for sure but never expected him to be the answer to all of the scoring problems.

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Old
10-15-2011, 09:27 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Cole is to help address a need...ES play...
Exactly..... Cole had 3 PP Goals and 8 PP points for Carolina last year. People wondering why we aren't using him on the PP are being ridiculous. He's not a PP guy.

He's a guy who can score 5 on 5, with 22 goals at ES last year. This has been a major weakness of the Habs... thats what he was brought in to do.

Its been 3 whole games... Martin is just asking people to get off Cole's ass, and give him time to adjust to his new linemates... nothing more than that.

He'll be valuable to this team in time.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:10 AM
  #33
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Our saviour would be an elite talent at the forward position.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:14 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
We are 1-2, there are a lot of so called better teams like the Bruins who are 1-3, Vancouver 1-2-1, LA 1-1-1, San Jose 1-1...is there a panic there?

No, it is the first 3 games. Are we to think that 2-0 Toronto are real, or that 3-1 Colorado are all top 3 finishers in the East and West this year too after only a couple of games???

No.

Way too much goes into calling the coach out, and the players.

Injuries have hurt this team, what has changed so much since last season that we would be basement dwellers and a potential lottery draft pick team now?

Hamrlik was a rock, but he was one player. Cole made us better and stronger. Markov and Cammalleri missing are key, Campoli injury has hurt, and Eller has just returned.

Expect a different team tonight, it is game 4. A win and we are .500, then go from there. It isn't a deep hole, it is a little bump in the road.
Couldn't have said it better +1

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, as I said, you can dislike the coach and his style all you want, he still deserves some credit.
As for the POs, let's not kid ourselves, there isn't even one Habs fan, even the most delusional one, that think we have/had a team worthy of the Cup. So, what should his PO success be over here? I know it's about results, but it has to be relative to your team right? Two years ago, you can put all the merit on Halak, still Martin lead the team to an ECF, he deserves credit there, no matter how lucky it was.
Last year, outside Mtl, who predicted the Habs should win? who inside Mtl didn't feel that them winning would be an upset? Has it come down to ''if you don't pull upsets than you fail''?..
Martin pushes his teams further than he can. I don't care what happened in Ottawa, it's a long time ago and we're in Mtl. So far, Martin has gotten the most out of his team. I don't think he's gotten the most out of his players individually, but as a team, I don't think we could have gotten much further.
So why is Pierre Gauthier receiving a paycheck? He had the entire offseason to modify this team to make it more competitive (and I agree with you regarding what I highlighted-----for several reasons and Martin is one of them).

And PG brings in Cole, the fans go wild and here we are today. Still a team that is lacking role players on offense, size on offense and that one or two skilled DMen that everyone agreed we needed to replace the older guys.

There were players available who would have helped the Habs to become a legit Cup contender that PG ignored. And we still are under the cap by a good margin.

Are Gauthier and Martin the "Manchurian Candidates"? Are they here to exact revenge for the Senators? Conspiracy theory at its finest , but damn, the decisions they both make leave me wondering if they have a clue.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:20 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
So why is Pierre Gauthier receiving a paycheck? He had the entire offseason to modify this team to make it more competitive (and I agree with you regarding what I highlighted-----for several reasons and Martin is one of them).

And PG brings in Cole, the fans go wild and here we are today. Still a team that is lacking role players on offense, size on offense and that one or two skilled DMen that everyone agreed we needed to replace the older guys.

There were players available who would have helped the Habs to become a legit Cup contender that PG ignored. And we still are under the cap by a good margin.

Are Gauthier and Martin the "Manchurian Candidates"? Are they here to exact revenge for the Senators? Conspiracy theory at its finest , but damn, the decisions they both make leave me wondering if they have a clue.
PG just inherited 2 years ago a team, the team I feel is better then the one he got 2 years ago. your bold part means you feel that there is another GM that would have this summer, IN REAL LIFE, changed this team into a cup contender? how? signing Hamrlick, Rupp and Brad winchester?

this doesn't happen in a year, reconstruction is usually a long and painfull road, at least we are not going the 20-55-7 road....

And I'd say why is 26 GM getting a paycheck then? cause there is maybe 4 teams who can really hope for an SC year after year

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:24 AM
  #37
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The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!



The Chicken Littles are out in full force after game 3 of an 82 game regular season.

Habs fans are so predictable. HF Boards Habs fans are even more predicable.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:26 AM
  #38
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So they just pay him like one?

Must be nice to be paid like a top performer, but not have the expectations to play like one.
Yup, aren't Crosby and Ovechkin both making 4.5 mil/year?

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:53 AM
  #39
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I like how folks create thread after thread with dubious titles when they're all basically "The Martin Bashfest" threads. Ugh.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:54 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I love how JM gets credit for doing absolutely nothing. I guess we will all see when this team goes 3-10-2 after the first 15 if he is still here.
And I have a feeling you won't be seen back here if they go 10-3-2 to eat some well deserved crow, only to magically pop right back up when they go on a losing streak.

Gotta love Montreal, the panic sets in before we hit the 10 game mark. Beautiful.

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Old
10-15-2011, 11:18 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Really ? You wouldn't prefer Vigneault to Martin ?
But look what Vigneault has to work with, it's not a fair comparison right now and they've both won squat, actually, look at how jekyll and hyde Vigneault's team was in the most intense and wanted situation in the NHL, Vigneault's team folded like a cheap tent.

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Old
10-15-2011, 11:29 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
So why is Pierre Gauthier receiving a paycheck? He had the entire offseason to modify this team to make it more competitive (and I agree with you regarding what I highlighted-----for several reasons and Martin is one of them).

And PG brings in Cole, the fans go wild and here we are today. Still a team that is lacking role players on offense, size on offense and that one or two skilled DMen that everyone agreed we needed to replace the older guys.

There were players available who would have helped the Habs to become a legit Cup contender that PG ignored. And we still are under the cap by a good margin.

Are Gauthier and Martin the "Manchurian Candidates"? Are they here to exact revenge for the Senators? Conspiracy theory at its finest , but damn, the decisions they both make leave me wondering if they have a clue.
Let mexask you this. You are a fan of another team, or better yet, you are the GM. Are you interested in getting Gionta at 5m, or Gomez at 7.3, or Cammy at 6? Probably not. I know I would not. Plek would probably be of interest, but I don't want to move my best forward.
So, that is a lot of roster spot and cap tied within these 4guys. Then you add Maxpac, great add, AK as well who is a lock for 20/40 (decent top6 production).

Although they have worked beside one another, and still do, Gainey and Gauthier have their differences. Holding Gauthier responsible for the moves Gainey made is simply not fair. You can criticize him for Cole, for going with Markov instead of Wiz, Gill instead of Hammer, not re-signing Moore, etc. There are plenty of things you can criticize him for, but he can't make miracles either. It is tough to make significant changes to your forwards when you have big contracts that are likely not interesting too many other teams. I think he messed up on the defense part last summer. I would have re-signed Hammer instead of Gill, or go after Kaberle or Ehrhoff (although his contract is ridiculous), and get a good stay at home #4 d.
We had the chance to make important changes to our D, but didn't. The good news is that it will be possible again next year with most of our Dmen coming off the books.

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Old
10-15-2011, 11:33 AM
  #43
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Let mexask you this. You are a fan of another team, or better yet, you are the GM. Are you interested in getting Gionta at 5m, or Gomez at 7.3, or Cammy at 6? Probably not.
I dunno. If I'm missing an elite sniper who steps up like no other in the playoffs for my top line and I can sneak in 6mil under the cap, Cammy would definitely be on my radar. He definitely has to be better during the season, but he's worth it.

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Old
10-15-2011, 11:47 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Cole is to help address a need...ES play...
True, I know he can produce 5 on 5, but he also looks to be a huge threat on the defensive side for all the wrong reasons. If I had the time and resources, I'd like to go back to his time in carolina and see if he was that poor without the puck there too.

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Old
10-15-2011, 11:54 AM
  #45
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He isnt a savior that is for sure.
People need to reel in their expectations.

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Old
10-15-2011, 12:08 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
And I have a feeling you won't be seen back here if they go 10-3-2 to eat some well deserved crow, only to magically pop right back up when they go on a losing streak.

Gotta love Montreal, the panic sets in before we hit the 10 game mark. Beautiful.
One can only hope. I feel like I'm reading RDS talkbacks lately on here. Luckily many of the more level-headed posters seem to be back.

About this, I heard the whole thing on Team990 last night and although I wouldn't go as far as saying there is friction between the two yet, there is a learning curve that has to occur in terms of Cole learning the system and getting comfortable with what JM is asking of his players. That is completely normal when you join a new team. Personally though, I will say I do think he should be parked in front of the net on the PP to pick up the garbage. I would like to see him get some PP time. I'm sure that is coming soon.

If I take anything from JM's statement about Cole not being a saviour it's that he's in fact protecting the player and keeping people's expectations of him tempered.

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Old
10-15-2011, 12:35 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
They don't seem to be on the same page.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/328221.html
really ?

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Old
10-15-2011, 12:39 PM
  #48
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Facts
  • Erik Cole average time on ice last year in Carolina: 18:27/game
  • Erik Cole average time on ice under JM: 14:27/game
  • David Desharnais, while playing his worst hockey in Montreal, average time on ice: 17:23/game

It's only been three games.. Hopefully JM finds a way to better utilize a player being paid 4.5M/year.

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Old
10-15-2011, 12:54 PM
  #49
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Its early in the schedule and Cole is a big body presence for the games with big teams like the Flyers and Bruins.When the defence catches up two sophomores in PK and Weber and the two rookies in Diaz And Emelin,then expect good things .By that time Cammalleri will be back and the offence ES will be much better than it has for years.JM can only play with the cards he's been dealt,saving draft picks is a smart GM's way of dealing with injuries.Constantly trading away the future of a team for stopgap players isn't a way to build an elite team for the long term success.

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Old
10-15-2011, 01:09 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelousmotion View Post
Facts
  • Erik Cole average time on ice last year in Carolina: 18:27/game
  • Erik Cole average time on ice under JM: 14:27/game
  • David Desharnais, while playing his worst hockey in Montreal, average time on ice: 17:23/game

It's only been three games.. Hopefully JM finds a way to better utilize a player being paid 4.5M/year.
Did you calculate Desharnais' shorthanded time into the equation? Take that away, both he and Cole have about the same ice time, with Desharnais getting more powerplay minutes and Cole getting more even strength time.

As I said in my article on HabsHQ.com, he is being eased into the line-up and getting acquainted with Jacques Martin's system. Once he feels more comfortable with the style, he'll likely see his ice time bumped up to top 6 minutes instead of third line minutes.

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