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Martin says " Cole is NOT our saviour "

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Old
10-15-2011, 01:09 PM
  #51
habsrule4eva3089
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I hope this team tanks so we can have a savior. Nail Yakupov best prospect since SID. Won't happen but anyone that KNOWS HOCKEY...knows this team and organization has as much chance as the toronto maple leafs to bring the cup anytime soon... so be realistic with the players they have all they can do is make the playoffs they'll battle for a round or two. They'll make some money during the playoffs their happy...pathethic. probably ticking people off but i'm being a realist and not a FAN supporting a business that's going NOWHERE.

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10-15-2011, 01:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 View Post
I hope this team tanks so we can have a savior. Nail Yakupov best prospect since SID. Won't happen but anyone that KNOWS HOCKEY...knows this team and organization has as much chance as the toronto maple leafs to bring the cup anytime soon... so be realistic with the players they have all they can do is make the playoffs they'll battle for a round or two. They'll make some money during the playoffs their happy...pathethic. probably ticking people off but i'm being a realist and not a FAN supporting a business that's going NOWHERE.
Wash your mouth out with soap. This is not Edmonton good sir. I don't think the Habs have ever in history got a 1st overall pick they didn't trade for.

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10-15-2011, 01:15 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
So they just pay him like one?

Must be nice to be paid like a top performer, but not have the expectations to play like one.
I don't see how you can possibly think that Cole is being paid "top performer" money. If that was the case we should have signed previous "top performer" UFAs like Chara, Richards, Marleau, Gaborik, Hossa to 4.5 million cap hits. We'd be one hell of a team if your fairy tail assumptions about "top performer" contracts were reality.

Cole is not a "top performer" and isn't paid like one. Hes a complimentary player who is paid accordingly. A 4.5 million cap hit isn't nearly as significant as it was when the cap came into the league and even back then it wasn't "top performer" money. He's 3 games in on a fair contract and you are already whining about his pay?

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10-15-2011, 01:23 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
They don't seem to be on the same page.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/328221.html
You thought Cole was our savior? Apparently you're on the wrong page.

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10-15-2011, 01:35 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 View Post
I hope this team tanks so we can have a savior. Nail Yakupov best prospect since SID. Won't happen but anyone that KNOWS HOCKEY...knows this team and organization has as much chance as the toronto maple leafs to bring the cup anytime soon... so be realistic with the players they have all they can do is make the playoffs they'll battle for a round or two. They'll make some money during the playoffs their happy...pathethic. probably ticking people off but i'm being a realist and not a FAN supporting a business that's going NOWHERE.
Are you kidding? This franchise will never throw away a season unless it becomes absolutely necessary, and that's the way it should be.

Leave that loser mentality to small market franchises who have no other way to bring in fans.

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10-15-2011, 01:49 PM
  #56
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10-15-2011, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I love how JM gets credit for doing absolutely nothing. I guess we will all see when this team goes 3-10-2 after the first 15 if he is still here.
He will be here until they go on a prolonged losing streak WITH Markov/Cammalleri in the line up, because Gauthier and Martin are long-time pals and he will use this as an excuse for the team's poor performance and thus be kept around until the injury excuse can no longer be played out.

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10-15-2011, 02:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Exactly..... Cole had 3 PP Goals and 8 PP points for Carolina last year. People wondering why we aren't using him on the PP are being ridiculous. He's not a PP guy.

He's a guy who can score 5 on 5, with 22 goals at ES last year. This has been a major weakness of the Habs... thats what he was brought in to do.

Its been 3 whole games... Martin is just asking people to get off Cole's ass, and give him time to adjust to his new linemates... nothing more than that.

He'll be valuable to this team in time.
While I agree with the sentiment of Cole not being a pp guy. With Cammy down, and seeing DD or Darche, who both are good players. I still think that Cole could do better than them, even though he isn't a pp player. If anything, he can act as a screen for the goalie. I duno, but I think it's worth a small shot.

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10-15-2011, 02:35 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
This here is the proof that most Habs fans, are easily satisfied. Maybe it's just me, but just making the playoff's isn't my goal.
Let me just give you one tiny example of why i hate Martin's coaching. We get three or four straight penalties in the first period,some that were very iffy. What does Martin do to let the ref's know of his displeasure ? NOTHING. The man is zzzzzzz. Sorry to offend some of you Martin lovers.
so, you're missing Carbonneau's reactions I guess...

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10-15-2011, 02:35 PM
  #60
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Since the end of the second period of the first game, Cole has played the vast majority of his ES time with Pleks. He's been playing 2nd unit PP time since Cammalleri's injury. All this without wasting one second of his ice-time or any energy playing SH.

It boggles my mind that some people are still complaining. What more do people want? He won't play the number of minutes that he got in Carolina because the Habs have more depth than the Canes did last year. Even with the highly publicized and misinterpreted start on the "third line", Cole has been getting played in exactly the role that he's suited for.

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10-15-2011, 03:10 PM
  #61
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Cole nearly murdered someone in the offensive zone early on against Calgary. I'm not used to seeing such power in checking on this team. If I remember correctly, the needs he came in to address were size, grit and ES scoring. So far, check the first two off. The scoring will come.

Problem?

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Old
10-15-2011, 03:14 PM
  #62
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Carolina fan here. I'd like to weigh in on Cole.

Anyone expecting him to be a savior or anything as such is severely ignorant of who Cole is. He's a gritty, character player who isn't very talented offensively.

Don't be mistaken by those 22 ES goals from last season. It's hard not to score 22 goals when you are playing with Skinner or Staal all season. I can assure you that only a few of those goals came as a result of his own skill. At the same time, many of them were also dirty, clutch goals, and he had a knack for scoring at the opportune times.

Obviously I don't follow the Canadiens too much, but from what I'm picking up, many are expecting him to be an offensive force. He's not going to be that ever. He was considered an offensive force in Carolina either, and it was a pleasant surprise when he racked up the points last season. Yes, his contract is a lot for someone who isn't expected to be that player, which is why Carolina did not match it. He is also not a PP forward, and the only reason why he was on the Carolina PP was because Staal sucked without him.

But as I mentioned earlier, he is a fantastic clutch player. Stick him out at the end of the game and he will try and find a way to score. I can't remember how many GWGs he had last season, but there were a lot.

Let Cole get used to the new environment and his linemates and he will turn into the player he is expected to be. He isn't the type of player who takes nights off. He won't be a leading scoring, though, and I will be very surprised if he scores more than 20 goals this season. Just hope that he stays healthy and that he shows up in the playoffs for once in his career.

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10-15-2011, 03:30 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricane04343 View Post
Carolina fan here. I'd like to weigh in on Cole.

Anyone expecting him to be a savior or anything as such is severely ignorant of who Cole is. He's a gritty, character player who isn't very talented offensively.

Don't be mistaken by those 22 ES goals from last season. It's hard not to score 22 goals when you are playing with Skinner or Staal all season. I can assure you that only a few of those goals came as a result of his own skill. At the same time, many of them were also dirty, clutch goals, and he had a knack for scoring at the opportune times.
I think that's the stat that had most people excited - the 22 even strength goals. The Habs have been that team that has a hard time scoring 5-on-5 so when that stat came up, people were drooling. However even though I put Staal a notch over Plekanec, Plekanec is still a very good playmaker. If they can play together over the course of a game, they will at least generate some quality scoring chances.

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Originally Posted by hurricane04343 View Post
Obviously I don't follow the Canadiens too much, but from what I'm picking up, many are expecting him to be an offensive force. He's not going to be that ever. He was considered an offensive force in Carolina either, and it was a pleasant surprise when he racked up the points last season. Yes, his contract is a lot for someone who isn't expected to be that player, which is why Carolina did not match it. He is also not a PP forward, and the only reason why he was on the Carolina PP was because Staal sucked without him.
Not entirely true. Carolina had matched Montreal's offer, three years at $4.5 million per year. It was when Montreal added the fourth year that Carolina backed out. So Carolina did feel he was worth $4.5 million. Understandable, he is worth that money playing with Staal or Skinner. On Montreal, he'll have a harder time justifying that contract. Not to say it's entirely impossible.

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Originally Posted by hurricane04343 View Post
But as I mentioned earlier, he is a fantastic clutch player. Stick him out at the end of the game and he will try and find a way to score. I can't remember how many GWGs he had last season, but there were a lot.

Let Cole get used to the new environment and his linemates and he will turn into the player he is expected to be. He isn't the type of player who takes nights off. He won't be a leading scoring, though, and I will be very surprised if he scores more than 20 goals this season. Just hope that he stays healthy and that he shows up in the playoffs for once in his career.
That's what I'm saying. Montreal's system is different than Carolina's. A guy can't just come in, know all the X's and O's and be good to go. It'll take some time. If he doesn't pan out to what most expect, he'll be a very good third line winger for the next four years.

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10-15-2011, 03:36 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricane04343 View Post
Carolina fan here. I'd like to weigh in on Cole.

Anyone expecting him to be a savior or anything as such is severely ignorant of who Cole is. He's a gritty, character player who isn't very talented offensively.

Don't be mistaken by those 22 ES goals from last season. It's hard not to score 22 goals when you are playing with Skinner or Staal all season. I can assure you that only a few of those goals came as a result of his own skill. At the same time, many of them were also dirty, clutch goals, and he had a knack for scoring at the opportune times.

Obviously I don't follow the Canadiens too much, but from what I'm picking up, many are expecting him to be an offensive force. He's not going to be that ever. He was considered an offensive force in Carolina either, and it was a pleasant surprise when he racked up the points last season. Yes, his contract is a lot for someone who isn't expected to be that player, which is why Carolina did not match it. He is also not a PP forward, and the only reason why he was on the Carolina PP was because Staal sucked without him.

But as I mentioned earlier, he is a fantastic clutch player. Stick him out at the end of the game and he will try and find a way to score. I can't remember how many GWGs he had last season, but there were a lot.

Let Cole get used to the new environment and his linemates and he will turn into the player he is expected to be. He isn't the type of player who takes nights off. He won't be a leading scoring, though, and I will be very surprised if he scores more than 20 goals this season. Just hope that he stays healthy and that he shows up in the playoffs for once in his career.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on his defensive play in Carolina. As far as putting up points goes, that will take a little time as you mentioned, while he gets used to teammates and the system played in Montreal. But I thought he would be better defensively than he has been. I wasn't expecting a Selke winner, but he has made some really obvious, really basic errors in his own zone so far, especially ones that a 'gritty' player might not be expected to make:
- cross ice pass in his own zone that got picked off
- Dmen on his wing with the puck under pressure and he leaves the zone before the Dman can clear, leaving them on their own
- drop pass a few feet inside his own zone when trying to start a rush instead of carrying or chipping it out

Are these types of plays something that Canes fans saw with any regularity when he was in Carolina or might it be an issue of him being a bit nervous playing with a new team? Or perhaps something else? He certainly hasn't found his game yet, but I expect he will at some point. He'll find chemistry with someone or other and we all know he will get a chance to play with everyone on the roster with the way JM shuffles his lines

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10-15-2011, 08:18 PM
  #65
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Either PG & JM are on diff pages, or PG got desperate...

You don't pay a 33 yr old 4.5 I've 4 years unless you think he's going to b an impact player...
You don't play an impact player 14-15 min a game, especially not when he's supposed to have an offensive impact & you put up 0 & 1 goals in your season& home openers.

If Cole & Martin don't get on the same page, JM will b far easier to "move" than Cole

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10-15-2011, 09:19 PM
  #66
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What did anyone expect of Cole? Jarome Iginla?

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10-15-2011, 09:21 PM
  #67
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I don't see how you can possibly think that Cole is being paid "top performer" money.
I consider 6 million top money, sorry if its not in your mind.

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10-15-2011, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
What did anyone expect of Cole? Jarome Iginla?
Based on the hoopla here at the boards after he was signed, I think, yes, a lot of people's expectations were very high.

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10-15-2011, 10:17 PM
  #69
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I consider 6 million top money, sorry if its not in your mind.
The cap hit is what matters from a hockey point of view, and his is 4.5 million. If you can't see the logic in that, then theres no point in me explaining it any further. The guy is paid 4 million the final 3 years of the contract. Does that make him a better deal next year? Nope.

Using your logic, Gomez is making 5.5 million next year. Would that make him more bang for your buck? Can the team use the 2 million saved to go out and buy another contract? The answer is no, so from a hockey point of view, nothing else matters but the cap hit.

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10-15-2011, 10:20 PM
  #70
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I consider 6 million top money, sorry if its not in your mind.
Next Year Tyler Myers is a loser if he makes anything less then 100 points I mean he is going to be paid 12 millions...

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10-16-2011, 10:36 AM
  #71
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And I have a feeling you won't be seen back here if they go 10-3-2 to eat some well deserved crow, only to magically pop right back up when they go on a losing streak.

Gotta love Montreal, the panic sets in before we hit the 10 game mark. Beautiful.
HUH ? Magically pop up ? Where exactly am i going to go ? J Martin is the man ! Happy now ?

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10-16-2011, 10:39 AM
  #72
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He will be here until they go on a prolonged losing streak WITH Markov/Cammalleri in the line up, because Gauthier and Martin are long-time pals and he will use this as an excuse for the team's poor performance and thus be kept around until the injury excuse can no longer be played out.
Finally, someone who get's it !!

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10-16-2011, 10:41 AM
  #73
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Next Year Tyler Myers is a loser if he makes anything less then 100 points I mean he is going to be paid 12 millions...
This......cap hit is where it counts guys, not the salary of the current season...Cole will be fine, and hopefully get his 50+ pts...

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10-16-2011, 10:41 AM
  #74
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He will be here until they go on a prolonged losing streak WITH Markov/Cammalleri in the line up, because Gauthier and Martin are long-time pals and he will use this as an excuse for the team's poor performance and thus be kept around until the injury excuse can no longer be played out.
I kinda agree with you though the Markov injury excuse does not exist anymore. He signed him knowing full well the risk involved. It cannot be used. And not only does PG goes and sign that kind of risk, but he doesn't surround him with vets able to take some kind of lead if needed. And PG knew it all. No excuse.

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10-16-2011, 10:56 AM
  #75
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The cap hit is what matters from a hockey point of view, and his is 4.5 million. If you can't see the logic in that, then theres no point in me explaining it any further. The guy is paid 4 million the final 3 years of the contract. Does that make him a better deal next year? Nope.

Using your logic, Gomez is making 5.5 million next year. Would that make him more bang for your buck? Can the team use the 2 million saved to go out and buy another contract? The answer is no, so from a hockey point of view, nothing else matters but the cap hit.

Listen, cap hit or not, the team is committing 6 million to Cole this year, you can add it up however you want.

If you don' think that 6 million doesn't affect the yearly budget, you are mistaken. You don't magically make a bonus disappear, like it has no significance at the end of the day.

Cole still has a chance to earn his money, however thus far he has been disappointing in his play. If you want to find little rays of sunshine, go ahead and enjoy it. Excuses like 'He's a pleasure in the locker room' or 'Did you see that pass Cole made!' don't cut it for me.

He's paid like a top player, I expect him to perform like it and I don't think its too much to ask. I watched last nights game and I forgot he was even on the team. He should be a major figure on the PP, and on the top lines.

I never wrote him off, but he has some work to do.

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