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Old
10-16-2011, 11:37 PM
  #201
SERE 24
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I feel like a Wolski for Sarich swap (give or take very small additions to either side to balance it out) would be very good for us. Wolski has a 3.8M cap hit, expiring at the end of the year when he'll be an RFA. Sarich has a 3.6M cap hit, expiring at the end of the year when he'll be a UFA. He would help our defense immensely until Staal returns and still be very serviceable when we're healthy again. It's virtually a wash money wise and neither team has to keep the player past the end of the season if they don't like what they get.

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10-16-2011, 11:57 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
callahan is a distraction in the locker room. i have as much evidence to say that as you do saying avery is a distraction in the locker room. and im talking about this locker room not the one in dallas.
Except I JUST said in the post you are quoting that I was speculating, jeez.

The odds of Avery wearing out his welcome in the lockerroom having a lot to do with his demotion (and all the reports that the Rangers tried to find non-Connecticut destinations for him sure help those odds, btw) are pretty high. You cannot argue that.

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10-16-2011, 11:59 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Count them with me, pal. Ready? Richards, Anisimov, Boyle, Christensen, Rupp. That's 5 centers other than Stepan who are already on the roster. Yeah, we definitely needed Kris Newbury the centre! Our savior! What a guy!

This is getting boring.
Rupp isn't a natural centerman.

And it's not just about bringing up any center, it's about bringing one up that is good on faceoffs. Newbury brings just as much on the 4th line as Avery does, and at a much lower price. I don't know what's so hard to digest.

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10-17-2011, 12:12 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Rupp isn't a natural centerman.

And it's not just about bringing up any center, it's about bringing one up that is good on faceoffs. Newbury brings just as much on the 4th line as Avery does, and at a much lower price. I don't know what's so hard to digest.
Agreed. He's very tough and solid on draws. Him, Rupp, and I hope at some point Carl Hagelin, for now Feds or EC, will make a better 4th line than Zucc and EC with Rupp did.

Avery doesn't help on the PK and faceoffs. I'd prefer Avery over EC with Newbury being on the roster though.

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10-17-2011, 12:31 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Except I JUST said in the post you are quoting that I was speculating, jeez.

The odds of Avery wearing out his welcome in the lockerroom having a lot to do with his demotion (and all the reports that the Rangers tried to find non-Connecticut destinations for him sure help those odds, btw) are pretty high. You cannot argue that.
and speculating is good? point is theres no evidence of it so why bring it up

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10-17-2011, 12:50 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by chip chipperson View Post
and speculating is good? point is theres no evidence of it so why bring it up
Because it's not speculation without anything to back it. I've seen people get very defensive of players Tortarella has said no to, Mara, Lisin, Zherdev, Avery, etc. yet when they're out of New York, what exactly happens to them? Find me one guy that's been remotely successful in New York after Tortarella forced them out of New York. And outside of Mara, it's usually the player just has something wrong with their head.

All 29 other teams had a chance at Avery at his current salary, they all passed. Avery hasn't been all that effective here since he came back. Time to move on.

And I don't know why everyone gets so hung up on Christensen either. The only reason he's still here is that he could end up being helpful at one point or another for the Rangers and he's cheap.

I don't think the 4th line is why we haven't won a game yet. At some point Christensen is going to get thrown into the mix of the top 9 where he could prove himself useful int he short term, and we'll be happy he's dressed if we make it to the shootout, especially with Zuc in the minors and Wolski hurt.

I won't shed any tears when Christensen is waived, but I'm not so full of blind hatred for him not to see his (limited) value. And despite playing on a very weird line of Rupp-Christensen-Zuc/Prust, he looked decent.

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Old
10-17-2011, 01:01 AM
  #207
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I honestly believe the Christensen hate is tremendously out of proportion here. The guy is talented. He's a frustrating, uninspiring, inconsistent, and often invisible player, but he has a limited role and a very small salary. He's bounced from team to team for all of those reasons; inconsistent, uninspiring and oft unnoticeable, but for the modest salary he commands (relative to the cap) it can still be said of him that he's managed to stay in the NHL for the past 6 years and that he has produced in the limited roles he's had. He'll never be a VALUABLE piece to a team. He'll never be a guy you wish you had back or that a team wants to give up an asset to acquire. He'll also never be a guy who gets paid more than ~1M a year. And at that price, he's honestly a pretty decent value.

Erik Christensen 340 career games, 151 points:

05-06: 13 points in 33 games
06-07: 33 points in 61 games
07-08: 24 points in 59 games
08-09: 28 points in 64 games
09-10: 26 points in 58 games
10-11: 27 points in 63 games

These are really not terrible numbers for the salary and role that he has. He is what he is. Expecting more out of him is never going to get you anywhere, but recognizing that he is a spare part player who on top of having the potential to give you 30-35 points over an 82 game season, can be very useful in the shootout, he's really not that bad. I actually feel for the guy. He has talent but he never put it all together. Still, he provides enough to warrant his meager price tag. Like most, I certainly won't complain when/if the day comes that it's his turn to hit the waiver wire, but I don't understand how a spare parts forward who comes close to 30 points every year in less than 70 games and makes less than 1M can possibly be the new whipping boy for our fan base.

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Old
10-17-2011, 05:32 AM
  #208
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On wich line did P.A. Parenteau play whene he was here,and with who?
Why didn`t he last here? Has 7 points in his first 4 games so far.

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10-17-2011, 05:52 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by fredrikstad View Post
On wich line did P.A. Parenteau play whene he was here,and with who?
Why didn`t he last here? Has 7 points in his first 4 games so far.
Tavares and Moulson make him better.

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10-17-2011, 08:44 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Tavares and Moulson make him better.
PA is a one-way player with skating issues, on a line with two very talented offensive players. He will get lots of points, but he will also give up incredible chances to good teams who transition well.

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10-17-2011, 08:58 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Tavares and Moulson make him better.
Tavares and Moulson carry his jockstrap. Ask the Icelander fans how they feel about Pappy.

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10-17-2011, 09:09 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
PA is a one-way player with skating issues, on a line with two very talented offensive players. He will get lots of points, but he will also give up incredible chances to good teams who transition well.
PA's performance is suggestig otherwise.

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10-17-2011, 09:38 AM
  #213
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My guess is that Zuccarello is back in Sweden in a couple of months. He obviously is not comfortable under Tortorella and the way he wants the team to play.


Last edited by KenGuru: 10-17-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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10-17-2011, 10:09 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Tavares and Moulson carry his jockstrap. Ask the Icelander fans how they feel about Pappy.
Is that what they're saying?

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Old
10-17-2011, 10:28 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by KenGuru View Post
My guess is that Zuccarello is back in Sweden in a couple of months. He obviously is not comfortable under Tortorella and the way he wants the team to play.
Tortorella doesn't even know how he wants the team to play. He's a walking contradiction. We dont even dump the puck in at the right times. If their D backs up, we dump it in so they can easily retrieve it and quickly go the other way. If they stand up at the blue line, then we try to make a pretty play and turn it over and let them quickly go the other way. All signs point to a team that has NOT been given a decisive strategy. Tortorella's rhetoric sounds more like Renney's every day. Nothing but empty motivational preaching with no actual thought put into how the 29 other teams play the game of hockey.

Watch Zuccarello go to Detroit or Vancouver and become a star.

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10-17-2011, 11:54 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
I honestly believe the Christensen hate is tremendously out of proportion here. The guy is talented. He's a frustrating, uninspiring, inconsistent, and often invisible player, but he has a limited role and a very small salary. He's bounced from team to team for all of those reasons; inconsistent, uninspiring and oft unnoticeable, but for the modest salary he commands (relative to the cap) it can still be said of him that he's managed to stay in the NHL for the past 6 years and that he has produced in the limited roles he's had. He'll never be a VALUABLE piece to a team. He'll never be a guy you wish you had back or that a team wants to give up an asset to acquire. He'll also never be a guy who gets paid more than ~1M a year. And at that price, he's honestly a pretty decent value.

Erik Christensen 340 career games, 151 points:

05-06: 13 points in 33 games
06-07: 33 points in 61 games
07-08: 24 points in 59 games
08-09: 28 points in 64 games
09-10: 26 points in 58 games
10-11: 27 points in 63 games

These are really not terrible numbers for the salary and role that he has. He is what he is. Expecting more out of him is never going to get you anywhere, but recognizing that he is a spare part player who on top of having the potential to give you 30-35 points over an 82 game season, can be very useful in the shootout, he's really not that bad. I actually feel for the guy. He has talent but he never put it all together. Still, he provides enough to warrant his meager price tag. Like most, I certainly won't complain when/if the day comes that it's his turn to hit the waiver wire, but I don't understand how a spare parts forward who comes close to 30 points every year in less than 70 games and makes less than 1M can possibly be the new whipping boy for our fan base.
Christensen isn't the whipping boy. It's that his role on the team is larger than it should be that is the problem. You're right, as an extra part/injury fill-in, he is fine. But on this team, he ends up playing relatively often, and that's the problem. When constructing a roster, you want to be able to match up roles/niches with other teams and have the preferable match up in most cases. When he's in the lineup, most nights, the opposite team has a better player filling the role on their team.

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:15 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Because it's not speculation without anything to back it. I've seen people get very defensive of players Tortarella has said no to, Mara, Lisin, Zherdev, Avery, etc. yet when they're out of New York, what exactly happens to them? Find me one guy that's been remotely successful in New York after Tortarella forced them out of New York. And outside of Mara, it's usually the player just has something wrong with their head.

All 29 other teams had a chance at Avery at his current salary, they all passed. Avery hasn't been all that effective here since he came back. Time to move on.

And I don't know why everyone gets so hung up on Christensen either. The only reason he's still here is that he could end up being helpful at one point or another for the Rangers and he's cheap.

I don't think the 4th line is why we haven't won a game yet. At some point Christensen is going to get thrown into the mix of the top 9 where he could prove himself useful int he short term, and we'll be happy he's dressed if we make it to the shootout, especially with Zuc in the minors and Wolski hurt.

I won't shed any tears when Christensen is waived, but I'm not so full of blind hatred for him not to see his (limited) value. And despite playing on a very weird line of Rupp-Christensen-Zuc/Prust, he looked decent.
and i've seen people who hate avery say that he is a distraction in the locker room which is a complete fabrication. he is gone but not because hes a distraction.

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10-17-2011, 12:26 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post

Watch Zuccarello go to Detroit or Vancouver and become a star.
I don't see it... the Ranger are not mishandling him... he is NOT a top 6 forward. If someone wants to spend two years giving him top line minutes, then he will get better but I think people need to accept that maybe he isn't THE guy.

... and god help me if I hear one more St Louis comparison. If that holds water, then lets select every defenseman 6'6 or larger bc they are bound to become Zdeno Chara.

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10-17-2011, 12:29 PM
  #219
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and i've seen people who hate avery say that he is a distraction in the locker room which is a complete fabrication. he is gone but not because hes a distraction.
He's gone bc he's a 4th line player. From most accounts I've read - his teammates like him. He wasn't so bad that they didn't take him back from Dallas or drop him the last 2 years..

Personally, I would have def kept him over EC, but 'Salary + Shootout = goodbye avery.'

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10-17-2011, 12:37 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Tortorella doesn't even know how he wants the team to play. He's a walking contradiction. We dont even dump the puck in at the right times. If their D backs up, we dump it in so they can easily retrieve it and quickly go the other way. If they stand up at the blue line, then we try to make a pretty play and turn it over and let them quickly go the other way. All signs point to a team that has NOT been given a decisive strategy. Tortorella's rhetoric sounds more like Renney's every day. Nothing but empty motivational preaching with no actual thought put into how the 29 other teams play the game of hockey.

Watch Zuccarello go to Detroit or Vancouver and become a star.
It'd be even tougher for Zuccarello to unseat a top 6 player on those teams.

See a trend here?

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10-17-2011, 01:19 PM
  #221
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It'd be even tougher for Zuccarello to unseat a top 6 player on those teams.

See a trend here?
He wouldn't neccessarily have to on those teams because Babcock and vigneault aren't dumb. They'd see his talent and put him in situations to succeed. It doesn't mean he has to unseat one of their top six, but stranger things have also happened before.

And to the guy who says he's not a top six player, what are you basing this on? He's been given zero chance this year to play with the big guns. Even in preseason he was juggled around with Avery, Christensen, Rupp, Fedotenko. And last year he played on a third line in a very limited role and scored at over a 40 point pace doing that. You don't think there's any chance that if he had the chance to play his FIRST FULL SEASON IN THE NHL, with at least somewhat competent linemates, he wouldn't score at least 40 points? Delusion is an epidemic on this board.

Yeah, he's not a top six player because he didn't do anything in 7 mins with Rupp and EC. Judging by the same sample size, Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Callahan aren't top six players because they've collectively produced about the same as Zuccarello in these three games with 4 times the ice time. Think before you post please.

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10-17-2011, 01:22 PM
  #222
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He's gone bc he's a 4th line player. From most accounts I've read - his teammates like him. He wasn't so bad that they didn't take him back from Dallas or drop him the last 2 years..

Personally, I would have def kept him over EC, but 'Salary + Shootout = goodbye avery.'
Which would further prove the point that him making the team in the first place given the obvious role Torts was putting him in made zero sense.

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10-17-2011, 01:24 PM
  #223
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MZA has a serious problem here with the Rangers. He would be ideal on a 3rd line playing 12-15 minutes a night with PP time but the Rangers don't have a normal 3rd line.

He is not good enough to play on the 1st line with Richards and Gaborik, and even if he was, that line would be too soft.

He doesnt fit the mold of the Anisimov line and Torts is very hesitant to break that line up at all which most of us agree with.

The 3rd line will most likely eventually showcase Stepan and Wolski which is already a defensively weak line (unlike most 3rd lines in the league).

He would thrive on a line where he could get the puck with space because he has (2) grinders like Prust and Boyle or Fedotenko but in order for that opportunity to happen here in NY he would be playing on the 4th line getting 5-7 minutes a night which is a waste for his development.

Tough position to be in because he is definitely a NHL player.

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10-17-2011, 01:36 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
He wouldn't neccessarily have to on those teams because Babcock and vigneault aren't dumb. They'd see his talent and put him in situations to succeed. It doesn't mean he has to unseat one of their top six, but stranger things have also happened before.

And to the guy who says he's not a top six player, what are you basing this on? He's been given zero chance this year to play with the big guns. Even in preseason he was juggled around with Avery, Christensen, Rupp, Fedotenko. And last year he played on a third line in a very limited role and scored at over a 40 point pace doing that. You don't think there's any chance that if he had the chance to play his FIRST FULL SEASON IN THE NHL, with at least somewhat competent linemates, he wouldn't score at least 40 points? Delusion is an epidemic on this board.

Yeah, he's not a top six player because he didn't do anything in 7 mins with Rupp and EC. Judging by the same sample size, Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Callahan aren't top six players because they've collectively produced about the same as Zuccarello in these three games with 4 times the ice time. Think before you post please.
Im not going to be lectured by someone who is obviously a Zuccarello fanboy who sees what he wants to see.

Your post is filled with half-truths and excuses for Zuccarello's limited role; the wildest being that Babcock or Vigneault would be so overwhelmed with MZA's talent that they'd give him preferantial treatment.

Now, back to the real world. Zuccarello = not big enough, not strong enough, and not fast enough. And, in case you missed it, he got some PP time to start the season and did jack-**** with it....He cant handle 15+ minutes of even strength time, and is a non-factor on the powerplay. What else do you exactly want Tortorella to do with the guy?

And while I appreciate the advice, I do think when I post and I try to make it objective. Maybe, if I had your MZA blinders on, my post would be an ill-conceived mess championing a player that is a borderline NHL'er.

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10-17-2011, 02:10 PM
  #225
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and i've seen people who hate avery say that he is a distraction in the locker room which is a complete fabrication. he is gone but not because hes a distraction.
Correct.

He is gone because management thinks they are better without him. You may disagree but it is as simple as that.

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