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Old
10-17-2011, 12:54 AM
  #26
Whitesnake
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Surprised nobody came around with the "But he is the one that got us Cammy and Gionta" crap...

To answer your question, wasn't good then, still not good now, will not be good in the future. You've got yourself a great useful player in McDonagh. I guess it's payback time....word is that you had a choice between Balej, Marcel Hossa and a certain Tomas Plekanec in exchange for Kovalev....and you chose Balej. Gainey might have thought we owed you one...That's your Montreal Canadiens for you, always willing to help. Any interest in PK Subban? He's struggling and we need some vet presence....how about that Wade Redden? Isn't he any good?

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Old
10-17-2011, 01:00 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Not fair. Although many felt as you say, many didn't. This is a prospects board at base, as you so well know (big fan of yours here) and McDonagh was a key focus of interest in reaction to the trade. For me he was the trade. I don't remember if I expressed it clearly here but my objection from the first was entirely about McDonagh. Higgins for Gomez was fair, Valentenko was a throw in ( I was very high on him myself, but he'd gone back to Russia already so he wasn't part of the future here.). McDonagh was a future core player, EXACTLY the kind of player we currently lack. I disctinctly remember hearing about the trade on the radio and storming out of the shed where I was working (long story) and yelling at my father in outrage that we'd given away a bruising, minute crunching prospect. My blood was boiling. I've since cooled a bit and given management more credit for the overall rebuild than I did in that moment, but it was the loss of McDonagh that had me outraged. Nothing else. I'm not alone in that, I suspect.
For sure. I rarely get angry over anything (probably not healthy) and even I posted 'Now I'm pissed' after McD was discovered to be involved.

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10-17-2011, 01:02 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Page 9 is hilarious when everyone finds out that Mcdonagh was included
As sad as the situation is, you're right it's absolutely hilarious to read where we all discovered that McD was thrown in.

Man we should could use him now...

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10-17-2011, 01:07 AM
  #29
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Page 9 is hilarious when everyone finds out that Mcdonagh was included
I guess sometimes you got to look back and laugh.. I really thought Gomez would be better.. But I have to say it was and still is a disappointment..

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10-17-2011, 01:39 AM
  #30
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Gomez is still a useful player, but I was talking to crimson yesterday, and I told him it's sad when we're basically hoping this guy can at least resemble a 2nd line center. If Plekanec hadn't emerged, we'd be in big trouble for the duration of this contract.

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10-17-2011, 01:51 AM
  #31
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I like how I was dead on. Haha, Gomez sucks. But if we hadn't lost McD it would have been fine.

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10-17-2011, 01:55 AM
  #32
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Strange most team win when they take on salary dump. Look at the islanders who took on 6M rolston (plus a draft pick) and dumped 3M Trent Hunter (injured) to New Jersey.

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10-17-2011, 02:15 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Page 9 is hilarious when everyone finds out that Mcdonagh was included

I know, right lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze
Ryan McDonagh too??!?!??! I'm gonna start crying... Oh dear lord... Oh my ****ing god... holy ****ing ****...


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Old
10-17-2011, 02:19 AM
  #34
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an inexcusable mistake by a GM... if the team's hockey operations were run nearly as "business-like" as their marketing, Gainey would have been fired before he stepped aside, and no way the director of pro scouting overseeing that blunder would have been promoted to replace him...

it was the cherry on top of a pretty bad management tenure that was largely sheltered thanks to some quality assets that were already in place, many of which were needlessly squandered.

we can only hope that this year is the last season we'll have to deal with Gomez on the roster, hopefully the emergence of Eller/DD this year, and his diminishing salary vs cap hit starting next year will be enough to get PG to ship him out of town...

who knows, maybe we get lucky and find someone as "smart" as Gainey was, and actually land some half decent asset in return.

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10-17-2011, 02:26 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Surprised nobody came around with the "But he is the one that got us Cammy and Gionta" crap...

To answer your question, wasn't good then, still not good now, will not be good in the future. You've got yourself a great useful player in McDonagh. I guess it's payback time....word is that you had a choice between Balej, Marcel Hossa and a certain Tomas Plekanec in exchange for Kovalev....and you chose Balej. Gainey might have thought we owed you one...That's your Montreal Canadiens for you, always willing to help. Any interest in PK Subban? He's struggling and we need some vet presence....how about that Wade Redden? Isn't he any good?


It's not crap.

He DID help us land Cammy and especially Gio.
He gave us 2 top centers(at the time) that players coming in, knew would get them the puck with at least some consistency. More importantly, it gave us twice as many top centers as the team we were directly competing against for their services, namely the Laughs.

Call it crap all you want but it WAS a factor. I liked McD as well for the future but certainly not over either one of or even both of Cammy and Gio.

We knew going forward that Gomez wasn't going to live up to his salary but he did a pretty good job in year 1 with 59 points. It's just a shame his 38 points last season was so bad.
If he gets back up to around 50 points or more and then we buy him out in the summer, I can live with that, all things considered.
It's not like we had any other playmaking centers knocking on the door 2 years ago. That didn't even happen until late last season with Desharnais and Eller finally looking like possibilities soon.

We can argue over just how much of a factor Gomez was in getting Cammy and Gio all you want but arguing that he wasn't a factor at all is simply not an option.


Last edited by Rhiessan71: 10-17-2011 at 02:33 AM.
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Old
10-17-2011, 02:35 AM
  #36
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I was pissed when I thought it was just Higgins. McDonagh too? Ugh!

Higgins > Gomez.

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Old
10-17-2011, 02:41 AM
  #37
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When I heard we had thrown in Mcdonagh as well I actually felt sick to my stomach. Had to lie down for a bit. Seriously still can't figure out what Gainey was thinking.

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Old
10-17-2011, 02:42 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
It's not crap.

He DID help us land Cammy and especially Gio.
He gave us 2 top centers(at the time) that players coming in, knew would get them the puck with at least some consistency. More importantly, it gave us twice as many top centers as the team we were directly competing against for their services, namely the Laughs.

Call it crap all you want but it WAS a factor. I liked McD as well for the future but certainly not over either one of or even both of Cammy and Gio.

We knew going forward that Gomez wasn't going to live up to his salary but he did a pretty good job in year 1 with 59 points. It's just a shame his 38 points last season was so bad.
If he gets back up to around 50 points or more and then we buy him out in the summer, I can live with that, all things considered.
It's not like we had any other playmaking centers knocking on the door 2 years ago. That didn't even happen until late last season with Desharnais and Eller finally looking like possibilities soon.

We can argue over just how much of a factor Gomez was in getting Cammy and Gio all you want but arguing that he wasn't a factor at all is simply not an option.
Your crazy if you think Gomez had anything to do with them coming. Montreal overpaid for both those players. I love them both, but Montreal's offers were far higher than everyone elses. Rumor was Toronto offered Cammy 4.5 per year and NJ offered Gionta 3.5 a year.

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10-17-2011, 02:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Your crazy if you think Gomez had anything to do with them coming. Montreal overpaid for both those players. I love them both, but Montreal's offers were far higher than everyone elses. Rumor was Toronto offered Cammy 4.5 per year and NJ offered Gionta 3.5 a year.
I completely agree that Gomez had nothing to do with the signings, despite one radio clip of Cammy saying that "they're moving in a new direction, like with trading for Gomez" but I'm sure they got higher offers than 4.5 and 3.5

The Cole signing is looking pretty silly now though, 4 years when his best offer was for 3 and a NTC on top of it? Hrm...

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10-17-2011, 03:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Your crazy if you think Gomez had anything to do with them coming. Montreal overpaid for both those players. I love them both, but Montreal's offers were far higher than everyone elses. Rumor was Toronto offered Cammy 4.5 per year and NJ offered Gionta 3.5 a year.
Yeah, I guess I am crazy along with 98% of the media(most of which are much closer to the team than you or I are) out there who almost to a man call the Gomez trade as a huge domino in getting Cammy, Gio, Spacek and Gill right after.
Along with the aforementioned Cammy interview.

As far as what we paid for Cammy and Gio...yes we def offered Gio more than NJ but the REAL rumour with Toronto was that Burke actually offered Cammy more than we did and he came to Montreal anyway and Burke was tre pissed about it.


Do some research my friend, you will find a ton of articles and educated opinions on this.
Also, I guess everyone forgets about the throw-in Pyatt, who was a more than serviceable 4th liner and superb PKer for us the last 2 seasons.

Like I said, argue just how much weight the trade had but not that it didn't have any, that would just be pure ignorance.


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Old
10-17-2011, 03:14 AM
  #41
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post

We can argue over just how much of a factor Gomez was in getting Cammy and Gio all you want but arguing that he wasn't a factor at all is simply not an option.

very much an option... both players went to the team who gave them the best $$/term combo, plain and simple.

Cammy was going to the highest bidder, he made that clear before leaving Calgary, and players who played with him in Calgary confirmed it.

but aside from those realities, it also makes ZERO sense to argue that a guy would leave a place where he had a career best season & great chemistry to go play with someone he's never played and a coach known for favoring players with strong defensive acumen (something Cammalleri does not have).

Gionta I don't have any "proof" for, but NJ made it clear they wanted him back but would not come close to matching that offer, common sense says that no other team was offereing 5million/5years

but yeah, keep telling yourself that lie if it makes you feel better.

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:18 AM
  #42
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very much an option... both players went to the team who gave them the best $$/term combo, plain and simple.

Cammy was going to the highest bidder, he made that clear before leaving Calgary, and players who played with him in Calgary confirmed it.

but aside from those realities, it also makes ZERO sense to argue that a guy would leave a place where he had a career best season & great chemistry to go play with someone he's never played and a coach known for favoring players with strong defensive acumen (something Cammalleri does not have).

Gionta I don't have any "proof" for, but NJ made it clear they wanted him back but would not come close to matching that offer, common sense says that no other team was offereing 5million/5years

but yeah, keep telling yourself that lie if it makes you feel better.
OR...we can read a Cammy interview where he tells us himself eh

http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/nhlnew...6-86020f1346c3

Quote:
"I want to say that Bob was one of the first people to call, and as the day went on there were different teams in the mix, but you narrow it down," Cammalleri said.

His original interest in Montreal grew the night before the free-agent market opened, when the Canadiens traded Christopher Higgins to the New York Rangers in the deal for Gomez, who also is represented by Pulver.

"(The trade for Gomez) was a big factor, and Bob also told us they were trying to sign (Gionta)," Cammalleri said.

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:23 AM
  #43
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
OR...we can read a Cammy interview where he tells us himself eh

http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/nhlnew...6-86020f1346c3
Hi, my name is Mike, I'm new here but I only came because your team is paying more than anyone else would... hope you enjoy your higher ticket & beer prices, Cheers!


yeah, your right, I mean players ALWAYS tell the straight truth to local media.


gullible
adjective
easily persuaded to believe something; credulous : an attempt to persuade a gullible public to spend their money.

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10-17-2011, 03:30 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Hi, my name is Mike, I'm new here but I only came because your team is paying more than anyone else would... hope you enjoy your higher ticket & beer prices, Cheers!


yeah, your right, I mean players ALWAYS tell the straight truth to local media.


gullible
adjective
easily persuaded to believe something; credulous : an attempt to persuade a gullible public to spend their money.
and what truth is that, the one about trading for Gomez factored in his decision or the one about wanting to go to the highest bidder... or maybe a little bit of both... or none...

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:40 AM
  #45
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and what truth is that, the one about trading for Gomez factored in his decision or the one about wanting to go to the highest bidder... or maybe a little bit of both... or none...
the comments he made prior to leaving Calgary, and the comments made by ex-teammates (who were close to him, spoke very highly of him and had zero interest/benefit in making anything up) made it very clear that he, very understandably so, was focused on getting the most out of his UFA potential.

he never actually said he was going to the highest bidder, he's too good with the media to make that kind of damning statement.

Gomez was as much of a factor as Boustan's, which is to say had nothing to do with it.

Had another team made him a better offer, his comment would have been identical...

Cammy is one of the most media-saavy players in the league, but it wouldn't take a genius to praise your new boss the day he hands you the payday of a lifetime, or to talk up a soon-to-be big ticket teammate who is already the target of a lot of negative fan/media attention.

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10-17-2011, 03:46 AM
  #46
ECWHSWI
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the comments he made prior to leaving Calgary, and the comments made by ex-teammates (who were close to him, spoke very highly of him and had zero interest/benefit in making anything up) made it very clear that he, very understandably so, was focused on getting the most out of his UFA potential.

he never actually said he was going to the highest bidder, he's too good with the media to make that kind of damning statement.

Gomez was as much of a factor as Boustan's, which is to say had nothing to do with it.

Had another team made him a better offer, his comment would have been identical...

Cammy is one of the most media-saavy players in the league, but it wouldn't take a genius to praise your new boss the day he hands you the payday of a lifetime, or to talk up a soon-to-be big ticket teammate who is already the target of a lot of negative fan/media attention.
ex-teammates talk (they're players too you know) : truth
Cammy talk : lie

thing his, while his ex-teammates had nothing to gain from commenting... what was Cammy gain in making such comments AFTER his contract was signed... pretty much the same I'd guess...

I mean, the standard "I'm excited to be part of the Habs rich history, cant wait to play with my new teammateS, we should have a competitive team, etc" would have sufficed...

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:54 AM
  #47
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
ex-teammates talk (they're players too you know) : truth
Cammy talk : lie

thing his, while his ex-teammates had nothing to gain from commenting... what was Cammy gain in making such comments AFTER his contract was signed... pretty much the same I'd guess...

I mean, the standard "I'm excited to be part of the Habs rich history, cant wait to play with my new teammateS, we should have a competitive team, etc" would have sufficed...
comments like that make it clear that you are either arguing for the sake of arguing, or purposely being facetious... because I know you are smart enough to figure out why it would be in a player's best interest to say nice things about new teammates/bosses.

and if you followed Cammy at all prior to his arrival in montreal, or have paid attention to his media relations since coming, you'd know that he's almost always good for something more substantial than the generic lines that most players are limited to.

call it a "lie" call it an "exaggeration"... reality still is that he left an almost perfect playing situation in Calgary so that he could get paid. all the other reasons had minimal impact, at least as measured up to his primary motivation.

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10-17-2011, 04:01 AM
  #48
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comments like that make it clear that you are either arguing for the sake of arguing, or purposely being facetious... because I know you are smart enough to figure out why it would be in a player's best interest to say nice things about new teammates/bosses.

and if you followed Cammy at all prior to his arrival in montreal, or have paid attention to his media relations since coming, you'd know that he's almost always good for something more substantial than the generic lines that most players are limited to.

call it a "lie" call it an "exaggeration"... reality still is that he left an almost perfect playing situation in Calgary so that he could get paid. all the other reasons had minimal impact, at least as measured up to his primary motivation.

haha! maybe! although I dont know what it means and dont plan on babelfishing the word

meh, I dont bother much with what players say to the medias, they're asked the same dumb questions hundred times a year (in Mtl : hundred times a week ), so wether its Cammy himself or ex-teammates... I doubt any of them bothered speaking their mind really...

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10-17-2011, 04:03 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
ex-teammates talk (they're players too you know) : truth
Cammy talk : lie
context is the key... the player (Conroy), the interview context (2 years later summer time reflections), the comment context (blurted out, clearly accidentally, then tried to make it sound nicer so as to not make his buddy sound so money driven), all point to a very strong conclusion.

couple that with Cammy's comments prior to leaving (the very standard, criptic, comments made by a player ready to bolt because he knows the team he's with won't pay him as much as he's "worth" to others, no matter how much he likes it and how well he's doing)

and then consider the context of his "big impact" comments, coupled with the hindsight that show he never ended up playing with, or pushing for, the player who was supposedly a big impact in his arrival

and i think there's more than enough evidence for a pretty strong conclusion. one that makes perfect sense, or at least far more sense than the idea that a player would leave a team & teammate that provided him with the best year of his career, and a city where he was quickly emerging as a huge fan /media favorite.

heck, if he had said "playing close to home" was his "big impact", it would be far harder to dispute, but the whole "we signed him because we traded for gomez" perception, which he helped create, is so full of holes it isn't even really worth discussing any more.

and so I'm done. (that and my wife is going to have my ass for staying up late talking hockey once again... i tell ya, the habs better win a cup soon or else i'm going to have a hard time justifying the time they take up

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10-17-2011, 05:03 AM
  #50
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Even if Gomez was directly related to the signings of gionta, Cammy ect, was that a good thing? A think there may be a little bit of truth to that, however overblown.

I wouldn't have mind either of them added, but both guys under 5'10, wasn't a direction I would of taken. I wasn't a fan of the signings as a whole, individually they weren't terrible, but with a top 6 that already included, Gomez, Pleks, Cammy, signing Gionta was a poor decision imo. 4 players with no size at all.

Just the other night when we had 2 dominate physical players on one line we seen the results directly, Patches, AK, DD were the best players on the ice. This is not a knock on the players individually, they are all great, but the balance just wasn't there.

I don't believe in signing UFA's just because they will come here or because they're the only viable options.

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