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Old
10-13-2011, 03:13 PM
  #26
Edges7
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Originally Posted by pensguy11 View Post
I wouldn't call 14 years a "failure", but there's numerous issues with Thunder Bay; the arena is one, but I think them being in the race for an AHL franchise and travel are probably the two biggest no no's.
The Thunder Bay Flyers become a victim of a bored owner, IIRC. Didn't want to sell it so he just spiked it. I believe that they are the only Jr team to have won both US and Canadian Jr. A Nationals in the same season. I could be wrong about that though.

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10-13-2011, 03:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Edges7 View Post
Just curious what region/district you are in.

I used to hear this complaint in my old baliwick of the Atlantic/NY districts but years of coaching and scouting in those areas shows a clear bifurcation between T1 and T2.

I apologize for the inital comment and edited it out.
What region or district? Huh?

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Old
10-13-2011, 03:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
What region or district? Huh?
Was curious what your regional background was where you made this observation.

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Old
10-13-2011, 03:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Edges7 View Post
Was curious what your regional background was where you made this observation.
Well, I was born and raised in Massachusetts. Got plenty of experience with the E, preps(went to a prep myself...) and the politics in place between Preps/E and leaving both to go to the U(like Barry Almeida and Frank Vatrano...among many others...).

Currently, I'm a scout of the USHL. That's about all one would need to know about the depth of my knowledge of the USHL...

To claim I have "no idea what I'm talking about" or even "bias" would just be incredibly misguided.

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Old
10-13-2011, 04:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
Well, I was born and raised in Massachusetts. Got plenty of experience with the E, preps(went to a prep myself...) and the politics in place between Preps/E and leaving both to go to the U(like Barry Almeida and Frank Vatrano...among many others...).

Currently, I'm a scout of the USHL. That's about all one would need to know about the depth of my knowledge of the USHL...

To claim I have "no idea what I'm talking about" or even "bias" would just be incredibly misguided.
It sounds as if you and I may have crossed paths and more than once.

Anyway, maybe I misread where you were going with your observation and I took it more generally than I should have. If so, I apologize. My kneejerk reaction to the word "Tiers" in hockey reverts me back to the Youth level and the ongoing battle between parents over how many A's their team had in its description.

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10-13-2011, 04:43 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Edges7 View Post
It sounds as if you and I may have crossed paths and more than once.

Anyway, maybe I misread where you were going with your observation and I took it more generally than I should have. If so, I apologize. My kneejerk reaction to the word "Tiers" in hockey reverts me back to the Youth level and the ongoing battle between parents over how many A's their team had in its description.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=902182 Here perhaps?

Most people don't GET the tiers. They see numbers and think "lol inferior!" with no basis at all for their claims. To act like the EJHL is a joke is misguided at best, stupid at worst. A LARGE number of kids from New England prep leave their teams to play in the EJHL. A LARGE number of kids get drafted out of the New England preps every year. So if someone chooses to call the EJHL a joke, they obviously have zero knowledge of the US hockey landscape. Kids CHOOSE to stay in the EJHL because it's a highly concentrated league where, oftentimes, the kids can literally stay home. The EJHL is literally a "tier 3" league because all of the players DO NOT need R+B and other expenses because they are trust fund babies who still live at home...

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10-14-2011, 07:45 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by nosl View Post
I know the Jets are the talk of the city, but what about a place like Winnipeg? Thunder Bay has been floated around as well, but the University team is front & centre there.

You could also tap into the Southern Ontario market (Chatham-Kent, Brantford).

How about the Northern portion of Michigan?
If the ushl went into canada in places such as ontario and manitoba would it work maybe but the bigger thing is how well would this go over with the chl it may not be the best move for the ushl.I don't think the ushl would want to get in a tug of war with the chl in terms of markets the chl could go after markets that the ushl is in and wants and the ushl could do the same but again is this the type of game the ushl should play with the chl no.

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Old
10-14-2011, 08:46 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=902182 Here perhaps?

Most people don't GET the tiers. They see numbers and think "lol inferior!" with no basis at all for their claims. To act like the EJHL is a joke is misguided at best, stupid at worst. A LARGE number of kids from New England prep leave their teams to play in the EJHL. A LARGE number of kids get drafted out of the New England preps every year. So if someone chooses to call the EJHL a joke, they obviously have zero knowledge of the US hockey landscape. Kids CHOOSE to stay in the EJHL because it's a highly concentrated league where, oftentimes, the kids can literally stay home.
Right. Once I realized that you weren't discussing "Youth" I got the context.


I recall our discussion...who called Dubuque?


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Old
10-14-2011, 08:56 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
If the ushl went into canada in places such as ontario and manitoba would it work maybe but the bigger thing is how well would this go over with the chl it may not be the best move for the ushl.I don't think the ushl would want to get in a tug of war with the chl in terms of markets the chl could go after markets that the ushl is in and wants and the ushl could do the same but again is this the type of game the ushl should play with the chl no.
You are all looking at this from the wrong dynamic. Keep in mind that the USHL has partnered with the Elite Youth Hockey League as a feeder system. Next, you have to consider that one of the biggest expenses that these teams face is travel. I believe that you could put a pin in the map just east of Des Moines and then draw a 200-250 mile arc from due east to the southwest of that point, your next USHL team will fall, if not within that arc, then pretty darn close...

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10-15-2011, 01:39 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I would love to see the winner of USHL play against the winner of the EJHL in a best of 3 or 5 series.
The USHL champion would win that series nine years out of every ten. There's no comparison between the two leagues.

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Old
10-15-2011, 03:48 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
Errrrr, you do know what the "tiers" of USA hockey mean right? That it's entirely financial...right?
You say that like it doesn't make all the difference. Take a look at the draft numbers from 2006-2011:

EJHL: 4 NHL draft picks, 1 first rounder
MA and CT prep schools: 31 NHL draft picks, 2 first rounders
USHL: 102 NHL draft picks, 15 first rounders

The last six drafts haven't just been a total fluke. The USHL is able to attract better players because it covers all its players' expenses. It markets itself better, plays in better arenas, and is able to hire more and better scouts and coaches, which means it excels at identifying and developing better talents. That's pretty much the definition of a superior league.

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Old
10-17-2011, 09:20 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
You say that like it doesn't make all the difference. Take a look at the draft numbers from 2006-2011:

EJHL: 4 NHL draft picks, 1 first rounder
MA and CT prep schools: 31 NHL draft picks, 2 first rounders
USHL: 102 NHL draft picks, 15 first rounders

The last six drafts haven't just been a total fluke. The USHL is able to attract better players because it covers all its players' expenses. It markets itself better, plays in better arenas, and is able to hire more and better scouts and coaches, which means it excels at identifying and developing better talents. That's pretty much the definition of a superior league.
You nailed it, imho, except the "arenas" part...some of the rinks aren't very pretty...in fact, one is a converted bowling alley...

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Old
10-17-2011, 10:15 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Edges7 View Post
You nailed it, imho, except the "arenas" part...some of the rinks aren't very pretty...in fact, one is a converted bowling alley...
I lol'd a bit...

I can't imagine there's a single player out there who wants to call Sioux Falls Arena their home rink. A cavernous, half empty, half-century old, wooden seat filled basketball gym with a rink surface smaller than most people's backyards.

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:47 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
I lol'd a bit...

I can't imagine there's a single player out there who wants to call Sioux Falls Arena their home rink. A cavernous, half empty, half-century old, wooden seat filled basketball gym with a rink surface smaller than most people's backyards.
Best of the old barns still in use is Lincoln's...Des Moines is a pit and on a busy night it's like Soylent Green in those hallways.

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