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Old
10-17-2011, 01:10 PM
  #1
BleedOrange
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Hartnell Needs To Redefine Role

http://phillysportsdaily.com/columni...redefine-role/

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Yet, over the first four games of the season and nearly all of preseason, the Flyers have suffered though Hartnellís disappearing act and with the team succeeding without him, itís becoming quite noticeable.
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But the more concerning part of Hartnellís early season is that his role on the Flyers has been significantly diminished to where he is seeing just 11:11 of average ice time per game, compared to his 16:36 last season and 15:43 the season prior. His TOI has fallen so drastically that he is recording little more than fourth-liners Andreas Nodl (10:08) and Zac Rinaldo (5:19), who are the only two players under him in playing time.
Ive haven't noticed hartnell that much in the first four gms time for the trade rumours to start up agian......


Last edited by Hollywood Couturier: 10-17-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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10-17-2011, 01:28 PM
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Spongolium*
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How can he be recording little more than both Nodl and Rinaldo, when there are 5 minutes between them. Retarded comment

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10-17-2011, 01:30 PM
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even tho Hartnell needs to start producing I refuse to read anything by that tool Ryan Bright.

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10-17-2011, 01:41 PM
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COMCASTMONEY
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Needs to be back with Daniel Bwiehwre, th' Cookie Monsta.

But really, neither has looked that great. Hartnell-Briere-Jake, Simmonds with Couts on the third.

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10-17-2011, 02:02 PM
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FreshPerspective
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A lot of players minutes are down not just Scott Hardfall's...it's a result of playing our 4th line which is better than in year's past. Even Lavy has conceded it's been tough to manage minutes and it becomes tougher when your team commits alot of penalties. Having said this Hartnell's main problem is his salary. He serves a purpose when on his game but when he starts getting lost and flying at people face first or falling down everywhere...he quickly becomes goat boy and it's not totally unwarranted.

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10-17-2011, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
A lot of players minutes are down not just Scott Hardfall's...it's a result of playing our 4th line which is better than in year's past. Even Lavy has conceded it's been tough to manage minutes and it becomes tougher when your team commits alot of penalties. Having said this Hartnell's main problem is his salary. He serves a purpose when on his game but when he starts getting lost and flying at people face first or falling down everywhere...he quickly becomes goat boy and it's not totally unwarranted.
I agree with you, but I also believe Hartnell needs to be put back with Briere.

Simmonds has earned the time, but Simmonds will be fine with Couturier and Read. I don't care if Hartnell's there just so the line isn't too young. It's not as big a concern as letting chemistry between Hartnell and Briere go to waste.

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10-17-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I agree with you, but I also believe Hartnell needs to be put back with Briere.

Simmonds has earned the time, but Simmonds will be fine with Couturier and Read. I don't care if Hartnell's there just so the line isn't too young. It's not as big a concern as letting chemistry between Hartnell and Briere go to waste.
Other thing that bears mentioning is that Simmonds has taken on some of Hartnell's role and justifiably so...

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10-17-2011, 02:46 PM
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Maybe he can be the designated glove thrower:


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10-17-2011, 02:54 PM
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Say what you want but Hartnell is a hard nosed gamer, and he don't need to redefine a damn thing.He does his job well, especially come playoff time......And i gotta think Scotties heart scare and all the trade rumors etc can certainly be messing with his head a little as well.I think Harts will be just fine, and he will contribute well for our club....He ain't polished, but he is old school tough and sticks up for his mates as well as anyone on the club.....No doubt Hartnell is a big asset in the room as well, and the players respect him.

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10-17-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
even tho Hartnell needs to start producing I refuse to read anything by that tool Ryan Bright.
What's wrong with him?

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10-17-2011, 03:29 PM
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I believe he is just in a slump, or so I'd hope because at his cap hit he needs to be putting up some decent numbers, as in as good as last year in addition to his physical presence.

If his lack luster play continues into mid November then if I were Holmgren I'd be seriously looking for an upgrade. Hartnell's NMC/NTC which ever it is says hello though, but I can't imagine he is entirely happy with his diminished role, or with his own play none the less.

I think Lavy should try and jump start him though by putting him with Briere for a bit to see if it helps. A Simmonds-Couturier-Read couldnt be all that bad either.

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10-17-2011, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
Say what you want but Hartnell is a hard nosed gamer, and he don't need to redefine a damn thing.He does his job well, especially come playoff time......And i gotta think Scotties heart scare and all the trade rumors etc can certainly be messing with his head a little as well.I think Harts will be just fine, and he will contribute well for our club....He ain't polished, but he is old school tough and sticks up for his mates as well as anyone on the club.....No doubt Hartnell is a big asset in the room as well, and the players respect him.
I hear you and I am not calling for his head. I do believe he should be back with Danny to see if his game picks up. I am a Hartnell fan. The guy has been through a lot as far as his personal life and more recently his health. But if we can improve the team by moving him, then I am all for it. It is too early right now to see where this team is at. After 15 to 20 games things should shake out as to lines etc.

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Old
10-17-2011, 05:06 PM
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Seriously, there should be some sort of rule against articles being written before we're 15-20 games into a season at least.

Hartnell can definitely play better than he's been doing so far, but it's been four games. He's put on a line with two rookies and that line has looked pretty decent, that isn't something that should be overlooked.

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10-17-2011, 05:31 PM
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I'm with those that want to see Hartnell back with Briere. Simmonds has proven he can play top 6 minutes, but if you keep him on the power play I don't see his play dropping off if you stick him with Cooter and Read

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10-17-2011, 05:37 PM
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I must be watching a different team because I thought his line was clearly the best line last game. They just aren't finishing opportunities because 2/3 of the line are rookies.

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10-17-2011, 05:43 PM
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hartnell is the same hartnell, he's just falling victim to a crowded powerplay and pk'ers that are way better/more reliable than him. give it time, he'll be back with briere soon enough. i wouldn't look too much into his ice time or any stat for that matter as evidence of his "disappearing act." he hasn't lost a beat with his play along the boards and his presence on a line with two rookies is much appreciated/needed.

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10-17-2011, 06:08 PM
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After 4 games last season Hartnell had exactly 0 points. Somehow, over the course of the next 78 games he found a way to score 24G + 25A. He's worth every penny of his 4.2mil hit and it'll take well more than 4 games to prove otherwise. If they can make a smart trade involving him then go for it. There is, however, no need to talk about getting rid of him based on performance or salary right now.

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10-17-2011, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I hear you and I am not calling for his head. I do believe he should be back with Danny to see if his game picks up. I am a Hartnell fan. The guy has been through a lot as far as his personal life and more recently his health. But if we can improve the team by moving him, then I am all for it. It is too early right now to see where this team is at. After 15 to 20 games things should shake out as to lines etc.
I agree with you about Harts being with Briere, hopefully that will happen.

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10-17-2011, 10:49 PM
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way too early to start writing off Hartnell. As others have said part of it is due to the number of PK time cutting into everyone's ice time plus rolling 4 lines. Even though he hasn't scored I think he has set up Coots and Read with some nice passes. I love having both Simmonds and Hartnell in the line up to stir things up.

Its a long season and you don't know how guys like Read, Coots, or even Simmonds will hold up with the increased ice time. They can afford to carry Hartnell's contract for what he brings until someone like Teswuide or Sestito show they can stay up for less money.

Look at the likely top teams in the east PFs:

Neal, Malkin
Knuble, Brouwer
Horton, Lucic
Malone, Purcell
Gaustad, McCormick, Adam

I would really like to see

Hartnell- Briere- Jagr
JVR - Giroux - Voracek
Read - Coots/Schenn - Simmonds
Talbot - Coots/Schenn - Nodl

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Old
10-18-2011, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
way too early to start writing off Hartnell. As others have said part of it is due to the number of PK time cutting into everyone's ice time plus rolling 4 lines. Even though he hasn't scored I think he has set up Coots and Read with some nice passes. I love having both Simmonds and Hartnell in the line up to stir things up.

Its a long season and you don't know how guys like Read, Coots, or even Simmonds will hold up with the increased ice time. They can afford to carry Hartnell's contract for what he brings until someone like Teswuide or Sestito show they can stay up for less money.

Look at the likely top teams in the east PFs:

Neal, Malkin
Knuble, Brouwer
Horton, Lucic
Malone, Purcell
Gaustad, McCormick, Adam

I would really like to see

Hartnell- Briere- Jagr
JVR - Giroux - Voracek

Read - Coots/Schenn - Simmonds
Talbot - Coots/Schenn - Nodl
i'd have to agree. i wanna see jagr help danny fill up that cookie jar, and i wouldn't mind seeing giroux and voracek connecting for some pretty goals. we have options, though, and we've looked good from the outset.

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10-18-2011, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Hartnell- Briere- Jagr
JVR - Giroux - Voracek
Read - Coots/Schenn - Simmonds
Talbot - Coots/Schenn - Nodl
Ugly.

Neither of them should be playing on the 4th.

Id rather have Coots in Juniors or Schenn in the AHL if they have to play on the 4th line.

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10-18-2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
How can he be recording little more than both Nodl and Rinaldo, when there are 5 minutes between them. Retarded comment
read slower...Hartnell is avging 11 mins and Nodl is avging 10 mins, Rinaldo 5 mins. Hartnell is 10th in ice time among forwards.

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Old
10-18-2011, 07:10 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by XS Chop View Post
After 4 games last season Hartnell had exactly 0 points. Somehow, over the course of the next 78 games he found a way to score 24G + 25A. He's worth every penny of his 4.2mil hit and it'll take well more than 4 games to prove otherwise. If they can make a smart trade involving him then go for it. There is, however, no need to talk about getting rid of him based on performance or salary right now.
If his role were the same I might agree with you. He's not playing PP and his playing time is down 33%....he won't come close to those numbers unless something substantially changes.

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Old
10-18-2011, 07:26 AM
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the fact that hartnel is making more than 4 million(2nd highest paid forward next to briere) to play 10 minutes a game jumping beween the 3rd and 4th line is kind of ridiculous.

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10-18-2011, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by kimmofan44 View Post
the fact that hartnel is making more than 4 million(2nd highest paid forward next to briere) to play 10 minutes a game jumping beween the 3rd and 4th line is kind of ridiculous.
Agreed.

But who cares about salary once the season has started? They are cap compliant and that's enough.

Middle or long term, I agree with you that Hartnell has no future on this team.

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