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Old
10-17-2011, 03:50 PM
  #76
Rhiessan71
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Great post.

Gomez had a decent history when he was acquired.
Agreed and to all the rest of the "experts" that continue to argue that the Gomez trade had nothing to do with Cammy and Gio...I'm sorry but I will go with Cammy's own freakin words and the numerous opinions from reporters and real experts with a hell of a lot more credibility over some guy whose opinion basically amounts to all players want is money and all they do is lie.

Hilarious

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Old
10-17-2011, 04:02 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
How can you say Boustan's was not a factor? I seen Kostitsyn eat 5 shwarmas in one sitting.
That would explain why his picture is there!

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10-17-2011, 08:50 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Agreed and to all the rest of the "experts" that continue to argue that the Gomez trade had nothing to do with Cammy and Gio...I'm sorry but I will go with Cammy's own freakin words and the numerous opinions from reporters and real experts with a hell of a lot more credibility over some guy whose opinion basically amounts to all players want is money and all they do is lie.

Hilarious
I just want to get this straight, You really think Cammy would have turned down 6 million a year from us If Gomez wasn't here? LOL.

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10-17-2011, 09:03 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
I just want to get this straight, You really think Cammy would have turned down 6 million a year from us If Gomez wasn't here? LOL.
Cammaleri probably could have gotten comparable money a few places when you factor in taxes.

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10-17-2011, 10:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Cammaleri probably could have gotten comparable money a few places when you factor in taxes.
Sorry, but still not buying that Gomez had anything to do with it. Given his history with the kings and the flames I think it was all about the money. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm a big fan of Cammy, but I laugh when people say he came because Gomez was here. We simply outbid other teams.

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10-18-2011, 01:22 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Sorry, but still not buying that Gomez had anything to do with it. Given his history with the kings and the flames I think it was all about the money. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm a big fan of Cammy, but I laugh when people say he came because Gomez was here. We simply outbid other teams.
Not people, Cammy said it.
All he had to do was talk about the rich history and that would of been more than enough but no, as another poster previously pointed out, he went out of his way to cite the Gomez trade as a "BIG FACTOR" in his final decision.

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe there were comparable offers on his plate at the time. Most notably from Toronto and Ottawa.
Funny how Burke was talking up Cammy before July 1rst and then pretty much insulting him after he talked to Cammy and then he went and signed in Montreal.
He says that Cammy is too small and not his kind of player, then goes out and makes a hugely ridiculous deal to get one of the softest players in the league in Kessel....C'mon man!

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10-18-2011, 01:26 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Not people, Cammy said it.
All he had to do was talk about the rich history and that would of been more than enough but no, as another poster previously pointed out, he went out of his way to cite the Gomez trade as a "BIG FACTOR" in his final decision.

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe there were comparable offers on his plate at the time. Most notably from Toronto and Ottawa.
Funny how Burke was talking up Cammy before July 1rst and then pretty much insulting him after he talked to Cammy and then he went and signed in Montreal.
He says that Cammy is too small and not his kind of player
, then goes out and makes a hugely ridiculous deal to get one of the softest players in the league in Kessel....C'mon man!
Link?

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Old
10-18-2011, 02:47 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Not people, Cammy said it.
All he had to do was talk about the rich history and that would of been more than enough but no, as another poster previously pointed out, he went out of his way to cite the Gomez trade as a "BIG FACTOR" in his final decision.

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe there were comparable offers on his plate at the time. Most notably from Toronto and Ottawa.
Funny how Burke was talking up Cammy before July 1rst and then pretty much insulting him after he talked to Cammy and then he went and signed in Montreal.
He says that Cammy is too small and not his kind of player, then goes out and makes a hugely ridiculous deal to get one of the softest players in the league in Kessel....C'mon man!
As someone else said, Do you really think Cammy was going to come out in the media and say " Yeah, I went to the Highest Bidder" People are very gullible.

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Old
10-18-2011, 02:58 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Sorry, but still not buying that Gomez had anything to do with it. Given his history with the kings and the flames I think it was all about the money. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm a big fan of Cammy, but I laugh when people say he came because Gomez was here. We simply outbid other teams.
I don't think it Gomez himself was so much a factor as what Gomez represented. i.e. that Montreal was serious about remaining competitive and were willing to act accordingly. In contrast to Toronto who have consistently failed to put together a competitive roster since the lockout.

Cammaleri probably could have gotten very similar take home pay elsewhere, money was probably a factor but so probably were other things.

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10-18-2011, 09:14 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
As someone else said, Do you really think Cammy was going to come out in the media and say " Yeah, I went to the Highest Bidder" People are very gullible.
You're pretty gullible if you think the first excuse he'd make up is the Gomez trade if you actually believe money was the 100% deciding factor. There were other far more easy to use excuses available, why would he use the Gomez trade as an example? It's ludicrous, if anything he'd just say "I love the rich history, Montreal is a great city blah blah ****ing blah" he wouldn't be some kind of pathological liar and start blabbing on about Gomez he'd just use a quick white lie. I mean honestly I take the words of Cammy himself over a bunch of paranoid ****s who like to stir the pot on an internet forum

Frankly around the time of the signing I had heard he turned down 7 mil a season from Burke anyways. You want a link? Use google if you're so interested but bottom line is Cammy said what he said, plain and simple. Anything else is extreme speculation and bordering on libel considering the context of the words coming out of Cammy's mouth. He decided to come here because he liked the team, Gomez being a big part of why. If you can't face the facts fine, but don't try to tell the people who do face them that they're stupid for taking things at face value.

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10-18-2011, 09:28 AM
  #86
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I have another explanation...

Cammy and Gionta signed in Montreal because they knew that they would not have to play with Koivu and Kovalev...


Last edited by habitue*: 10-18-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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Old
10-18-2011, 09:29 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
That would explain why his picture is there!
Have you been recently? They put up a second picture of him there!

Boustan.

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Old
10-18-2011, 09:43 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
I really thought Gomez would be better.. But I have to say it was and still is a disappointment..
This is how I felt / feel.

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10-18-2011, 09:48 AM
  #89
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First off it's only 4 games, secondly he IS playing a lot better so far.

Get off of Gomez's case FFS. He's not the reason for the slow start. Certainly not the main reason anyway.

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Old
10-18-2011, 03:15 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
You're pretty gullible if you think the first excuse he'd make up is the Gomez trade if you actually believe money was the 100% deciding factor. There were other far more easy to use excuses available, why would he use the Gomez trade as an example? It's ludicrous, if anything he'd just say "I love the rich history, Montreal is a great city blah blah ****ing blah" he wouldn't be some kind of pathological liar and start blabbing on about Gomez he'd just use a quick white lie. I mean honestly I take the words of Cammy himself over a bunch of paranoid ****s who like to stir the pot on an internet forum

Frankly around the time of the signing I had heard he turned down 7 mil a season from Burke anyways. You want a link? Use google if you're so interested but bottom line is Cammy said what he said, plain and simple. Anything else is extreme speculation and bordering on libel considering the context of the words coming out of Cammy's mouth. He decided to come here because he liked the team, Gomez being a big part of why. If you can't face the facts fine, but don't try to tell the people who do face them that they're stupid for taking things at face value.
Again though... even if it's true it doesn't matter.

At the end of the day we got ourselves a bunch of mediocre small players to try to win with and it's no surprise that it hasn't worked. The only legit first liner of the bunch is Cammy and when you pair him up with guys like Gomez and Gionta you aren't going to win anything...

So no matter how you slice it, those moves were dumb and locked us into a bad core of forwards. Your argument that we wouldn't have had those guys without Gomez is just one more reason to have not gone after Gomez in the first place. Cammy is the only guy who is close to worth the money and he's not going to win with the core that we have.

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10-18-2011, 03:22 PM
  #91
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Again though... even if it's true it doesn't matter.

At the end of the day we got ourselves a bunch of mediocre small players to try to win with and it's no surprise that it hasn't worked. The only legit first liner of the bunch is Cammy and when you pair him up with guys like Gomez and Gionta you aren't going to win anything...

So no matter how you slice it, those moves were dumb and locked us into a bad core of forwards. Your argument that we wouldn't have had those guys without Gomez is just one more reason to have not gone after Gomez in the first place. Cammy is the only guy who is close to worth the money and he's not going to win with the core that we have.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

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10-18-2011, 08:27 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Again though... even if it's true it doesn't matter.

At the end of the day we got ourselves a bunch of mediocre small players to try to win with and it's no surprise that it hasn't worked. The only legit first liner of the bunch is Cammy and when you pair him up with guys like Gomez and Gionta you aren't going to win anything...

So no matter how you slice it, those moves were dumb and locked us into a bad core of forwards. Your argument that we wouldn't have had those guys without Gomez is just one more reason to have not gone after Gomez in the first place. Cammy is the only guy who is close to worth the money and he's not going to win with the core that we have.
Ok and what moves would of been better then?
I mean you're pretty quick to criticize but tell me, what were the better options available at the time?

Take the hit and have a full rebuilding year, hope to get a shot at a top 3 pick, what?

Not sure if you're new but Montreal fans and full rebuilding plans don't mesh well heh and no GM is going to risk their job on such.

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10-18-2011, 09:57 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
You're pretty gullible if you think the first excuse he'd make up is the Gomez trade if you actually believe money was the 100% deciding factor. There were other far more easy to use excuses available, why would he use the Gomez trade as an example? It's ludicrous, if anything he'd just say "I love the rich history, Montreal is a great city blah blah ****ing blah" he wouldn't be some kind of pathological liar and start blabbing on about Gomez he'd just use a quick white lie. I mean honestly I take the words of Cammy himself over a bunch of paranoid ****s who like to stir the pot on an internet forum

Frankly around the time of the signing I had heard he turned down 7 mil a season from Burke anyways. You want a link? Use google if you're so interested but bottom line is Cammy said what he said, plain and simple. Anything else is extreme speculation and bordering on libel considering the context of the words coming out of Cammy's mouth. He decided to come here because he liked the team, Gomez being a big part of why. If you can't face the facts fine, but don't try to tell the people who do face them that they're stupid for taking things at face value.

uhhh ok I did google that and nothing came up, Where the hell did u hear he turned down 7 million? Thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard, His agent wouldnt let him do that. His Agent is also Scott Gomez's agent, who got Scott a pretty hefty contract as well.And why wouldn't he use the gomez trade as an excuse? It made headlines, its pretty easy, its not some evil diabolic genius plan to use it.

Oh and LOL at everyone using Players words as if they are telling the truth 100% of the time. Didn't Sheldon Souray say how badly he wanted to stay with the habs during his final season, and then bolted to EDMONTON for more money. Or how Komisarek went to the leafs for 500k more a year. You guys really hang on every word these guys say like its the gospel.

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Old
10-18-2011, 11:11 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Ok and what moves would of been better then?
Again, you sound like a Leaf fan trying to justify the signing of Jason Blake. Open your eyes man and think objectively.
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
I mean you're pretty quick to criticize but tell me, what were the better options available at the time?
We could have kept the guys we had, we could've rebuilt, we could've tried to trade for somebody else... McD was a good asset that we gave away for a headache that has haunted us ever since. No matter how you slice it, the trade was a dumb, dumb move.

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Take the hit and have a full rebuilding year, hope to get a shot at a top 3 pick, what?
If we wanted to go that route, we should've traded our vets. And alternatively (if you we were inexplicably dead set against rebuilding) we still could've signed them for one more year and if we weren't going to make the playoffs we could've traded them then or maybe other players would've been available...

What you DON'T do is trade away an asset like McD for absolutely no reason to get a guy the Rangers couldn't wait to be rid of.
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Not sure if you're new but Montreal fans and full rebuilding plans don't mesh well heh and no GM is going to risk their job on such.
Yeah, because those moves really saved Gainey's butt. And boy, did it ever set us up with a successful group of forwards.

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10-18-2011, 11:15 PM
  #95
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Basically, Gainey was looking at a first line center to replace Koivu, he apparently worked extremmely hard to get Lecavalier but it failed, Gainey had to react quickly to remain a competitive team, Im convinced Gomez wasnt his B plan either but that was probably his best option at that moment.. (the Lecavalier fail has been IMO the end of Gainey as the Habs GM) We all know now that this trade was one sided when you look at this on paper, but some will say that trade helped Gainey to attract Gomez's good friend and future captain Brian Gionta here, maybe even Cammalleri at some extend on the UFAs market.. We all know how it works.. So at the end, Gainey doesnt look to bad in that story.. Some people think its easy to be a GM, they are doing trades on their XBOX and probably think they would do a better job.. Those guys need a good reality check..
Why did we have do get rid of Koivu? Aren't we talking about the ultimate warrior here most of this board loves, adore and even some suggest to retire his jersey? 'Cause he was finished? The same finished guy who was coming from a 50-point season while the new saviour was coming out of a 58-point season? A guy who was CLEARLY wanted out from his GM who was eager to make room for an injury prone player? Telle you how much Gomez was wanted in New York despite the big money he was offered not that long ago. Yet, again, I ask you that question. Why would Gomez be enough to convince players while Koivu wouldn't be? 'Cause Gomez is a playoff warrior? How about Koivu? 'Cause of Gomez work ethic? How about Koivu? 'Cause of Gomez leadership? I know I heard Pat Burns saying that Gomez could NEVER be a captain. And while some suggest Koivu should not have been one himself how is Gomez ahead of Koivu in that department. But hey Cammy said it so it's right. He never said that it was about the money so I guess he would have played for free....Cammy is an intelligent man and I don't know if people noticed, but he ALWAYS tries to get out of the clichés to answer questions. So it's not surprising that he decided to talk about the components of the team. And the Gomez trade was the most recent event. You just sign with your team, you do what you can to praise your GM and the composition of your team. People should look around. Cammy is brillant but it's not too far fetched to think that others say something like that as well. Oh and another thing....too far fetched to think that Cammy was also praising one of his agents' other clients?

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10-18-2011, 11:15 PM
  #96
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LOL good memories... I read back what I said back then in the trade thread :

-Seriously, this is so bad. Gainey will get fired this season.

-I want to puke.

-If it's the only way to land a true franchise player... I'm for it. (sarcastically about landing a top 5 pick in the draft)

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10-18-2011, 11:17 PM
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Why did we have do get rid of Koivu? Aren't we talking about the ultimate warrior here most of this board loves, adore and even some suggest to retire his jersey? 'Cause he was finished? The same finished guy who was coming from a 50-point season while the new saviour was coming out of a 58-point season? A guy who was CLEARLY wanted out from his GM who was eager to make room for an injury prone player? Telle you how much Gomez was wanted in New York despite the big money he was offered not that long ago. Yet, again, I ask you that question. Why would Gomez be enough to convince players while Koivu wouldn't be? 'Cause Gomez is a playoff warrior? How about Koivu? 'Cause of Gomez work ethic? How about Koivu? 'Cause of Gomez leadership? I know I heard Pat Burns saying that Gomez could NEVER be a captain. And while some suggest Koivu should not have been one himself how is Gomez ahead of Koivu in that department. But hey Cammy said it so it's right. He never said that it was about the money so I guess he would have played for free....Cammy is an intelligent man and I don't know if people noticed, but he ALWAYS tries to get out of the clichés to answer questions. So it's not surprising that he decided to talk about the components of the team. And the Gomez trade was the most recent event. You just sign with your team, you do what you can to praise your GM and the composition of your team. People should look around. Cammy is brillant but it's not too far fetched to think that others say something like that as well. Oh and another thing....too far fetched to think that Cammy was also praising one of his agents' other clients?
Once again, well said lol.

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10-18-2011, 11:28 PM
  #98
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Why did we have do get rid of Koivu? Aren't we talking about the ultimate warrior here most of this board loves, adore and even some suggest to retire his jersey? 'Cause he was finished? The same finished guy who was coming from a 50-point season while the new saviour was coming out of a 58-point season? A guy who was CLEARLY wanted out from his GM who was eager to make room for an injury prone player? Telle you how much Gomez was wanted in New York despite the big money he was offered not that long ago. Yet, again, I ask you that question. Why would Gomez be enough to convince players while Koivu wouldn't be? 'Cause Gomez is a playoff warrior? How about Koivu? 'Cause of Gomez work ethic? How about Koivu? 'Cause of Gomez leadership? I know I heard Pat Burns saying that Gomez could NEVER be a captain. And while some suggest Koivu should not have been one himself how is Gomez ahead of Koivu in that department. But hey Cammy said it so it's right. He never said that it was about the money so I guess he would have played for free....Cammy is an intelligent man and I don't know if people noticed, but he ALWAYS tries to get out of the clichés to answer questions. So it's not surprising that he decided to talk about the components of the team. And the Gomez trade was the most recent event. You just sign with your team, you do what you can to praise your GM and the composition of your team. People should look around. Cammy is brillant but it's not too far fetched to think that others say something like that as well. Oh and another thing....too far fetched to think that Cammy was also praising one of his agents' other clients?
Just as a sidenote... Koivu outscored and outpointed Gomez last year (double the number of goals.)

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10-18-2011, 11:32 PM
  #99
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And for the "Well there were no other options" fans....geez, I hope we should thank Sather then. If Sather would have known that we had to get rid of Koivu and that there were no other options...he could have asked for Subban AND Price and we would not have had any choices. And again, if we happen to really come to a "we had no other choice" situation, well this is a dumb trade no matter how you look at it. Just like all the "WE HAD TO DO IT" trades à la Ribeiro, SKost, Grabs, Lats....and go as far as Patrick Roy if you like...all the WE HAVE TO trades, strangely, you rarely win those....

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10-19-2011, 01:26 AM
  #100
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Yeah, because those moves really saved Gainey's butt. And boy, did it ever set us up with a successful group of forwards.
Yeah, you're right, they're not nearly as effective as the group that got completely blown out by the Bruin's in 4 straight.

Yeah, all this group of forwards did was take out two of the best teams in the East two years ago before finally running out of gas and then last year, all they did was take the eventual Cup champs further than anyone else. Without one of our top forwards in Max Pac and without our best D-man Markov.

Crazy how memory works. Some just remember what they want to eh. Forget that the previous group of forwards all but gave up and everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was calling for big changes.
Those big changes happened and now 2 1/2 years later, you wanna ***** about those big changes. Changes that gave us a better team and more importantly a highly competitive one come April.

Forget that Cammy is among the top producers in the entire league in the playoffs over the last 2 years with 29 points in just 26 games or Gio tallying 20 points in 26 games or yes, even Gomez with 18 points in 26 games.
Oh...look at that, those are our team leaders over the last two years. Plek's has 16 points in 26 games btw.

***** all you want, whine all you want but come April, there's not a single ***damned team that wants any part of us.
And these 3 "terrible as a core" players are a big part of that.


I'm done here, arguing with selective memories is annoying.

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