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All Injury Talk: Gill out Saturday/Markov not back before California trip

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Old
10-17-2011, 07:25 PM
  #51
bjac
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Hab fans pay lots of $$$$ for tickets, cable tv, Centre Bell rip-off prices for beer and Hab jerseys = Habs, Hab owners'salary, players' salary.

Yet there are still some that think Hab fans should shut-up and just provide the $$$$ for the Habs.
That's business buddy and you had better get use to it because it isn't going to change. When you pay this money that you are talking about, you are not buying a part of the Canadiens, you are purchasing the right to watch or experience the product that the Canadiens offer (or in the case of merchandise/beer, you are purchasing the specific item mentioned). Do not confuse the two. We do not have a right to this information because we do not own a single portion of the company. Any information that we do know is by the grace of the owners. If ownership wants to keep something to themselves, which is pure speculation at this point anyway, then they have every right to do so. Also, in the case of Montreal, secrecy certainly has its uses. We cheer for a very unique team in many ways, both positive and negative. We've all see what a little bit of information can turn into. It is a media circus in Montreal, and at times, feeding the frenzy can be detrimental to the team and its players.

When I buy a coffee at Tim Hortons I do not demand to see where the money is spent within the company, or when the cafe mocha machine will be fixed and what exactly was wrong with it in the first place. I take my coffee, enjoy it, hope the cafe mocha machine gets fixed in the future, and leave. While the Candiens are clearly more important to both of us than a Tim Hortons coffee, it does not change that parrallels can be drawn between the two situations.

Quote:
Markov
I hope you aren't implying that any of this is Markovs fault. He certainly didn't want ANY of this to happen and as far as we know has done everything he can to get healthy again.


Last edited by bjac: 10-17-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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Old
10-17-2011, 09:11 PM
  #52
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That's business buddy and you had better get use to it because it isn't going to change. When you pay this money that you are talking about, you are not buying a part of the Canadiens, you are purchasing the right to watch or experience the product that the Canadiens offer (or in the case of merchandise/beer, you are purchasing the specific item mentioned). Do not confuse the two. We do not have a right to this information because we do not own a single portion of the company. Any information that we do know is by the grace of the owners. If ownership wants to keep something to themselves, which is pure speculation at this point anyway, then they have every right to do so. Also, in the case of Montreal, secrecy certainly has its uses. We cheer for a very unique team in many ways, both positive and negative. We've all see what a little bit of information can turn into. It is a media circus in Montreal, and at times, feeding the frenzy can be detrimental to the team and its players.

When I buy a coffee at Tim Hortons I do not demand to see where the money is spent within the company, or when the cafe mocha machine will be fixed and what exactly was wrong with it in the first place. I take my coffee, enjoy it, hope the cafe mocha machine gets fixed in the future, and leave. While the Candiens are clearly more important to both of us than a Tim Hortons coffee, it does not change that parrallels can be drawn between the two situations.
Our relationship with the Canadiens isn't one of shareholder-to-owner, it's customer-to-business. And while customers of a business cannot demand to see its financial books, they certainly do have the right to see a list of ingredients, as well as the expiry date, on whatever they buy. If the ingredients change, the business is obligated to report it.

I realize Markov isn't a tub of yogurt, but we the customers do have the right to expect honest updates on a major product of this business we choose to frequent.

On their part, the Canadiens organization is well aware they MUST give fans information about their players, which they do -- usually -- because they know that ignoring loyal customers is a surefire way for any business to fail. It is by the grace of paying customers that the Canadiens have become profitable. THAT'S business.

My argument was that I believe the organization has been placed in an awkward lose-lose situation with Markov, and their stalling has made them look bad. They've been paralyzed between giving us too-little good news and withholding too much bad news, with the result that many fans simply filled that information vacuum with their own worst-case scenarios. As I said earlier, the organization is made up of smart guys who I believe have the right intentions, but who make as many honest marketing mistakes as any other company. IMO they should have given fans what they wanted -- more in-depth updates on Markov's status. They didn't, but I guarantee they debated long and hard over it. But -- trust me on this -- they did NOT debate whether the fans had a right to that information.

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Old
10-17-2011, 10:58 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjac View Post
That's business buddy and you had better get use to it because it isn't going to change. When you pay this money that you are talking about, you are not buying a part of the Canadiens, you are purchasing the right to watch or experience the product that the Canadiens offer (or in the case of merchandise/beer, you are purchasing the specific item mentioned). Do not confuse the two. We do not have a right to this information because we do not own a single portion of the company. Any information that we do know is by the grace of the owners. If ownership wants to keep something to themselves, which is pure speculation at this point anyway, then they have every right to do so. Also, in the case of Montreal, secrecy certainly has its uses. We cheer for a very unique team in many ways, both positive and negative. We've all see what a little bit of information can turn into. It is a media circus in Montreal, and at times, feeding the frenzy can be detrimental to the team and its players.

When I buy a coffee at Tim Hortons I do not demand to see where the money is spent within the company, or when the cafe mocha machine will be fixed and what exactly was wrong with it in the first place. I take my coffee, enjoy it, hope the cafe mocha machine gets fixed in the future, and leave. While the Candiens are clearly more important to both of us than a Tim Hortons coffee, it does not change that parrallels can be drawn between the two situations.





I hope you aren't implying that any of this is Markovs fault. He certainly didn't want ANY of this to happen and as far as we know has done everything he can to get healthy again.

''Thats' business, buddy'' doesn't sound like friendly business to me.
Sounds like a big ''pay us or ****-YOU, get the **** out of here...next''.

If you're a tenant in a building (you don't own the building) but if you're a good tenant (clean, respectful/polite, not noisy, pay rent on time,etc) you deserve an apartment that is well maintained and you also deserve to know what is going on in the building if this or that will be fixed in the hallway or if there are any major changes. It's not ''pay your rent and shut up''. No good tenant deserves the silent treatment from the landlord and superintendent. The tenant doesn't own part of the building but still deserves some respect. Kindness, respect can be a partalwaysl

I don't necessarily agree with media being in the face of players after every loss...there should be a minimum amount of media persons.

Hab fans are 21,273 EVERY game. That deserves something more than a ''you don't deserve any info...whatever we give you, well you're lucky to have this info''.




Markov's injury:
Fair is fair...instead of Markov , it should be ''Markov's extremely fragile body and how it has made us wait now for 3 years (but kudos to his effort in working-out).

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:18 PM
  #54
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Enough of the Markov hate! Seriously my friends, we need to support the guy and hope for the best. The Canadiens owe Markov this contract based on what he has done for the organization. He in turn has worked very hard to come back to prove how much he cares about his job, the Montreal Canadiens hockey club, and its fans.

Besides, its Molson's money that is being wasted. Yes, it sucks that he is out right now, especially since we could have had the (suspended) Wiz. But look, the Habs kept cap space on the table so they could go out and get a defenseman if Markov won't be able to play. When that became evident they went out and signed Campoli. A solid defenseman, but not the ideal replacement, especially since we already had too many puck moves. The Habs know they need to find a Hamrlik replacement, and I am sure they are looking. Emelin and Gorges are two solid shut down dmen. Emelin is still adjusting and Gill is not playing physically. For these two reasons we are having trouble. Its a shame that Woywitka was claimed, because he could have been useful, even though he is pretty awful. But what other options do we have?

Here is a small list:

Henry and Mitera would be ideal, IF they were better. Not really options.

What about the trade front? All we really need is a Sheldon Brookbank type of guy. A big, strong dude who can dig pucks out of the corner, as well as deal some punishment to those that go into the corner.

Physical defenseman are useful to have, but a smart, strong one is just as good. This is what Hamrlik brought to the table. While not overally physical, he provided strength and used it to be good on the boards and corners, as well as in front of the net. So - who is out there I ask?

Wait for Markov, could be a steal. Either way, the Habs owed it to him, and I personally commend them for taking that risk and showing loyalty.

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:08 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Our relationship with the Canadiens isn't one of shareholder-to-owner, it's customer-to-business. And while customers of a business cannot demand to see its financial books, they certainly do have the right to see a list of ingredients, as well as the expiry date, on whatever they buy. If the ingredients change, the business is obligated to report it.

I realize Markov isn't a tub of yogurt, but we the customers do have the right to expect honest updates on a major product of this business we choose to frequent.

On their part, the Canadiens organization is well aware they MUST give fans information about their players, which they do -- usually -- because they know that ignoring loyal customers is a surefire way for any business to fail. It is by the grace of paying customers that the Canadiens have become profitable. THAT'S business.

My argument was that I believe the organization has been placed in an awkward lose-lose situation with Markov, and their stalling has made them look bad. They've been paralyzed between giving us too-little good news and withholding too much bad news, with the result that many fans simply filled that information vacuum with their own worst-case scenarios. As I said earlier, the organization is made up of smart guys who I believe have the right intentions, but who make as many honest marketing mistakes as any other company. IMO they should have given fans what they wanted -- more in-depth updates on Markov's status. They didn't, but I guarantee they debated long and hard over it. But -- trust me on this -- they did NOT debate whether the fans had a right to that information.
Its a health issue and sometimes doctors aren't 100% sure and can't give timelines.

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10-18-2011, 10:27 AM
  #56
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Has there been any word on Spacek?

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:28 AM
  #57
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Has there been any word on Spacek?
Dave Stubbs (@habsinsideout1)

#Habs Cammalleri might be back later this week, Spacek still seems a couple weeks away

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10-18-2011, 10:31 AM
  #58
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Dave Stubbs (@habsinsideout1)

#Habs Cammalleri might be back later this week, Spacek still seems a couple weeks away
was any further detail given on Spacek, or is it still "upperbody injury"? Looked like a broken rib to me. That's usually 3-4 weeks.

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10-18-2011, 10:34 AM
  #59
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was any further detail given on Spacek, or is it still "upperbody injury"? Looked like a broken rib to me. That's usually 3-4 weeks.
When I looked at him keeled over on the Bench in the Peg I thought cracked rib.

Might be just a nasty bruise though.

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10-18-2011, 10:38 AM
  #60
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was any further detail given on Spacek, or is it still "upperbody injury"? Looked like a broken rib to me. That's usually 3-4 weeks.
I've taken a quick look and I haven't seen any further details given out.

It might be out there though and I'm just missing it.

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10-18-2011, 10:44 AM
  #61
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Thanks to everyone who's posting updates (and ensuring that they're from valid sources). With all the injuries the Habs go through, we need a round-the-clock watch it seems

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10-18-2011, 10:49 AM
  #62
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Per MA Godin Markov is staying in Florida another week to do off ice training.

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10-18-2011, 10:52 AM
  #63
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was any further detail given on Spacek, or is it still "upperbody injury"? Looked like a broken rib to me. That's usually 3-4 weeks.
If he had only not lost the weight, the fat would have protected the rib.

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10-18-2011, 11:02 AM
  #64
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Guys, "hearing" things and not posting a link to a reliable source confirming your claim is not allowed.

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10-18-2011, 11:02 AM
  #65
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Per MA Godin Markov is staying in Florida another week to do off ice training.
Yeah just heard it on RDS

Flynn also said Subban will be paired up with Gorges

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10-18-2011, 11:05 AM
  #66
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JohnLuTSNMtl John Lu
by BrianWildeCTV
#Habs Markov saw Dr. Andrews in Fla yesterday, will see him again @ end of this week. Playing in October is "out of the question" -- Martin

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10-18-2011, 11:11 AM
  #67
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by BrianWildeCTV
#Habs Markov saw Dr. Andrews in Fla yesterday, will see him again @ end of this week. Playing in October is "out of the question" -- Martin
I wonder what the hell is actually going on with Markov... I wish they'd tell us something.

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10-18-2011, 11:13 AM
  #68
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#Habs Markov saw Dr. Andrews in Fla yesterday, will see him again @ end of this week. Playing in October is "out of the question" -- Martin
Is he a reliable source?

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10-18-2011, 11:14 AM
  #69
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Is he a reliable source?
Absolutely.

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10-18-2011, 11:15 AM
  #70
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#Habs Markov saw Dr. Andrews in Fla yesterday, will see him again @ end of this week. Playing in October is "out of the question" -- Martin


Then he'll come back for two games and he out another 10 months.

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10-18-2011, 11:18 AM
  #71
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I wonder what the hell is actually going on with Markov... I wish they'd tell us something.
it's right there in the post you quoted.

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10-18-2011, 11:19 AM
  #72
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#Habs Markov saw Dr. Andrews in Fla yesterday, will see him again @ end of this week. Playing in October is "out of the question" -- Martin
Weird to say the least.
Dr. Andrews must be performing tests on his knee throughout the week.

Lets hope for the best.

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10-18-2011, 11:20 AM
  #73
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Per MA Godin Markov is staying in Florida another week to do off ice training.
You know, I haven't started worrying about this Markov situation until now...and i'm not worried about the condition of his knee either. He's obviously going to resume playing at some point in the near future, whether that's in 2 weeks or 2 months matters little to me.

But the situation of him flying to Florida and now staying there for another week (Renaud Lavoie has added that it's also for personal reasons) seems very strange to me.

Doesn't seem right...

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10-18-2011, 11:21 AM
  #74
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If his rehabilitation was going 'according to plan', like the Habs spin doctors (no pun intended) are saying, they wouldn't have him in Florida for some more exams over a swelled knee. You don't see Dr. Andrews for a general check up. Mulder and his team would have done the same.

Me think their plan is flopping right now. And they are scrambling for some solutions.

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Old
10-18-2011, 11:22 AM
  #75
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Why don't we get more information on Markov's health? I feel like the organization is holding some vital information and are trying to cover the gravity of the injury.

All we get are some vague ''making progress'', ''skating'', ''rehab'' type of news. We actually had some words as if Markov could be ready for opener (it definitely wasn't out of question going a month back and analysts were speculating on Markov's status for the opener)... but now it's another month to add.

I'm honestly not even expecting Markov to be ready by mid-November with the way things are going right now.

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