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Old
10-17-2011, 12:45 PM
  #1
blueshirtbolt
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Road Trip / Lines

with our next few games away what state do you all think we'll be in when we get back home. if we drop more than 1 game i think our first few homers are gonna be so important. I feel like we're still stuck in preseason mode chopping and changing

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10-17-2011, 06:45 PM
  #2
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Anyone know what the lines were today at practice?


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10-17-2011, 06:48 PM
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Stepan centered the 4th line.

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10-17-2011, 06:50 PM
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No because apparently our beat reporters don't have to work until the team starts playing home games.

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10-17-2011, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
No because apparently our beat reporters don't have to work until the team starts playing home games.
Hmmmmmm that's interesting, because Zipay tweeted that the lines were:

Derek Stepan - Brad Richards - Marian Gaborik
Brandon Dubinsky - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan
Ruslan Fedotenko -Brian Boyle - Brandon Prust
Mike Rupp -Kris Newbury -Wojtek Wolski

Guess the guy isn't doing his job...

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10-17-2011, 06:54 PM
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Switch Feds and Wolski and I like it.

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Old
10-17-2011, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Hmmmmmm that's interesting, because Zipay tweeted that the lines were:

Derek Stepan - Brad Richards - Marian Gaborik
Brandon Dubinsky - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan
Ruslan Fedotenko -Brian Boyle - Brandon Prust
Mike Rupp -Kris Newbury -Wojtek Wolski

Guess the guy isn't doing his job...
Ha i looked this afternoon and didn't see anything. Glad someone is doing something. Didn't Gross say he was flying out there?

Have no idea about this Leonard guy. All the sudden he was the new beat guy and was in London. Since then, not much from him.

I get it's a crap start to the year travel wise and papers aren't paying money to send hockey writers anywhere but it's frustrating coverage with the season starting.

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10-17-2011, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Ha i looked this afternoon and didn't see anything. Glad someone is doing something. Didn't Gross say he was flying out there?

Have no idea about this Leonard guy. All the sudden he was the new beat guy and was in London. Since then, not much from him.

I get it's a crap start to the year travel wise and papers aren't paying money to send hockey writers anywhere but it's frustrating coverage with the season starting.
"This afternoon", as in this morning Vancouver time

I think that explains it buddy haha

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10-17-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Hmmmmmm that's interesting, because Zipay tweeted that the lines were:

Derek Stepan - Brad Richards - Marian Gaborik
Brandon Dubinsky - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan
Ruslan Fedotenko -Brian Boyle - Brandon Prust
Mike Rupp -Kris Newbury -Wojtek Wolski

Guess the guy isn't doing his job...
Well, it looks like we're going to be running 3 lines in Vancouver. I'm not sure if i've ever seen W2 on the right, but if that line puts one past Louongo I'll probably laugh myself under the table. D-Step looked great, but i'd still love to see a healthy wolski at the top line.

I liked Stepan at center, but if he turns out to be a superior winger, i wouldn't be surprised. (Look at Dubi.) We have decent center depth, and until Kreider appears and is hopefully a quality NHL caliber player, we had a missing left winger slot.

the 4th line is a mismash, but as of the moment, I'm liking the lines.

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10-17-2011, 07:59 PM
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Still wondering why guys like Wolski, Christensen are on this team (and MZA before he was sent down) if we're playing them on the fourth line. So confusing to me.

Yeah, I bet Wolski will shine there tomorrow with six sporadic minutes.

Oh and Mike Rupp blows.

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10-17-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Still wondering why guys like Wolski, Christensen are on this team (and MZA before he was sent down) if we're playing them on the fourth line. So confusing to me.

Yeah, I bet Wolski will shine there tomorrow with six sporadic minutes.

Oh and Mike Rupp blows.
Three games man. That's all I've seen of him. By this logic, Boyle, Dubinsky, and Feds are awful, and Biron doesn't exist.

Is there an offensively starved team that we can offer Wolski and Zucc to for a defenseman?

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10-17-2011, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Still wondering why guys like Wolski, Christensen are on this team (and MZA before he was sent down) if we're playing them on the fourth line. So confusing to me.

Yeah, I bet Wolski will shine there tomorrow with six sporadic minutes.

Oh and Mike Rupp blows.
I agree with the Rupp comment. Im not a fan, to say the least.

Slow as molasses, no hands, no skill.

Hagelin-Newbury-Mitchell

Should be the new fourth line.

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10-17-2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Zer0flames View Post
Three games man. That's all I've seen of him. By this logic, Boyle, Dubinsky, and Feds are awful, and Biron doesn't exist.

Is there an offensively starved team that we can offer Wolski and Zucc to for a defenseman?
I'm not sure I agree with your logic.

I'm talking about terrible construction of the roster. How do you expect players like MZA, Wolski, Christensen to succeed in a fourth line role?

People can make their "they don't deserve more minutes" comments, and that's fine. But that just further reinforces how poorly the bottom of the roster was constructed.

Wolski doesn't really need to be traded yet. He needs to actually be given a legitimate stretch of games with Dubi and Richards to see if we can get something out of him.



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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I agree with the Rupp comment. Im not a fan, to say the least.

Slow as molasses, no hands, no skill.

Hagelin-Newbury-Mitchell

Should be the new fourth line.
I really don't care who it is on the 4th line as long as their style of play makes sense for that line.

It wouldn't hurt if Dubi and Cally got going though.

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10-17-2011, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Zer0flames View Post
Three games man. That's all I've seen of him. By this logic, Boyle, Dubinsky, and Feds are awful, and Biron doesn't exist.

Is there an offensively starved team that we can offer Wolski and Zucc to for a defenseman?
And also Rupp has been in the league a long time. I didn't understand the signing at the time and I still don't. I know we're having a rough stretch with penalties but how many minutes is Rupp really going to get anyways? It just seems like such a needless signing.

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10-17-2011, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
I'm not sure I agree with your logic.

I'm talking about terrible construction of the roster. How do you expect players like MZA, Wolski, Christensen to succeed in a fourth line role?

People can make their "they don't deserve more minutes" comments, and that's fine. But that just further reinforces how poorly the bottom of the roster was constructed.

Wolski doesn't really need to be traded yet. He needs to actually be given a legitimate stretch of games with Dubi and Richards to see if we can get something out of him.





I really don't care who it is on the 4th line as long as their style of play makes sense for that line.

It wouldn't hurt if Dubi and Cally got going though.
I would hope Zucc would have found some success on a 3rd line, but as Leslie's article points out, he doesn't have much spot on the team. It's frustrating, and i think we all like the kid, But with Gaborik, Callahan, and Prust in your line up, there's really only one spot for a right winger, and it wasn't right for Zucc. I agree with sending him to CT to get 20 someodd minutes a game, as i wish we could do with Erixon. If he gets more acclimated to the north american game and better defensively, and we could pencil him in on a 3rd line, I would LOVE it. Right now that hasn't been the case. But he's still young. We'll see.

Wolski is different. There's practically a spot carved out for him on our talent heavy 1st line. He's somewhat par defensively, when he's involved, but past his impact on the score, he doesn't often impact the game. Again, i would love for him to find a groove with B-Rich and Gabby, but if he doesn't fit, then you need to see what he can do for the team. He HAS the talent, which makes it more frustrating. IF he cannot play the role that we need him to, it's harmful to both the Rangers and Wolski to continue on that path. I honestly despise trading established player, but if it's not a good match, sometimes you have to accept it. I still would take him over Rozi every day of the week and twice on sundays.

Honestly, I don't pay much mind to who deserves the minutes, or has paid their dues. The GM and coach need to play the guys and lines that they think gives the team the best chance to win.

I still like the Rupp signing. I think he's the only 4th line type player on our fouth line save for Newbury. Also, and this is pretty cool, he is one of two players on the roster who has a stanley cup winning goal (Feds has the other, the year after!)

Finally, Cally had 2 good games, one less so. Dubi hasn't been able to get the offensive groove he had, but his puck possession is still incredible.

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Old
10-17-2011, 10:39 PM
  #16
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I dont think its the end of the world if the Rangers split the trip. Of course it would be nice for them toget 3 wins and start to really get on track coming home, but im more concerned about seeing the right style of play and getting back into good habits offensively, and just as important, defensively (forwards).

But you know its always difficult to get the legs going again (always the excuse) during that first home game. Tough to have an excuse though when you are only flying from Winnipeg and they have three days off before their home opener. Gonna have to be up for that, with the new Garden and it being so long since theyve been there.

At least they start in Vancouver and kinda work their way back east as they go. But Its going to be a tough game tomorrow night with Vancouver not having a good start and Kessler coming back. We'll see what happens. Hope for the best.

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10-17-2011, 10:42 PM
  #17
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Guess I'm not the only one who's not digging Rupp... yet, of course. But he has played on some atlantic division teams so its not as if i've never seen him and I've never really been a huge fan.

I didn't understand all the hoopla in the off-season - he's never broken 20 points and we're not using him on the PK. Yeah, its early, but I think hagelin could take some valuable PK time away from Callahan and Dubi, and potentially chip in more on the offensive side.

I'd like to see how Rupp plays being the physical force on a line thats a bit more of a scoring threat... Otherwise i think he's up there in the order of people to be replaced.

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Old
10-18-2011, 03:56 AM
  #18
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There are two ways to construct the team
IMO Torts has chosen neither. But it might not have been easy to foresee what was going to happen - I must reluctantly admit...

One way would´ve been:

Wolski (Avery) - Richards - Gaborik
PACK LINE
Fedotenko (Wolski) - Stepan - MZA
Rupp (Fedotenko) - Boyle - Prust

and a cheap spare with multiversitale role... Newbury or Mitchell (Avery?)
Christ (most likely) gone
With Staal on D
Erixon in Hartford
Cap space to spare (even to accomodate Avery for a time) - this has been proven time & time again
But Avery did not need to make the team to make this work (BTW this is NOT a post saying that Avery should be on the roster - just trying to put a team together with proper balance and cap possibilities...)
Christ couldve filled this role too actually (yes possibly in & out on the 1st line and as a spare which I believe was the intention) - esp if Erixon was down for a while saving $$$

What was important was we had:
2 constructive lines on fwd
2 grinding lines
But Avery was gone (might be the best thing after all - time will tell...)
But Staal unexpectadly "got injured" and is now out for some time
Panic ensued and Erixon came up again eating up a lot of cap space
Wolski is nursing a bad groin making him hard to put on the first 2 lines (if at all on the roster - try playing through a groin injury & you will see why)
And then playmakers like MZA & Stepan were split up and/or saw very limited time (Wolski out). Changing our possibilities altogether
So we go with 3 lines and 3 spares
For this tactic neither Wolski or MZA are players fit for that role
I totally agree here

Stepan - Richards - Gaborik
PACK LINE
Feds - Boyle - Prust line (who Torts wants to have together)
Rupp - Newbury - Christ/Wolski/whoever

Many seem happy and overjoyed with this kind of "blue collar" lineup:
1 constructive line
3 grinding lines
But this is a flawed lineup imo and I do not like it one bit!
Hating Soft Euros and wanting a team full of hardworkers is nice in theory (especially if you enjoy rants by Don Cherry) - albeit without top end hockey talent & skills.
The combination of HAVING BOTH TALENT & WORK ETHIC/GRINDERS on the roster is imo necessary to be succesful. Not one or the other - but a balanced and well constructed mix - then making it a team very difficult to play against. For this to work - we need top end talent.
Do we have this?
Probably not (Wolski, MZA and to a certain point Stepan are not proven here in NYR uniforms and we have nobody now in the system that can play here this year). Cherepenov passed away (RIP). Kreider did not sign. Fasth, Thomas and Miller are a few years away (if they at all make it). Zherdev, Lisin, Higgins (and Grachev) did not work out. We let Vinny P go and did not sign Jagr (not saying we could/should have - just saying the pricetag was not insurmountable if we would have kept Vinny, signed Jagr and/or traded/bought out Wolski - putting real & affordable short term TALENT on the team for reasonable cost - albeit them being "soft Euros").
But then again - if we do not try to put together combinations to attain this and utilize our somewhat constructive players (that might not cut it anyway) we will never know this - now will we?
Here is where the problems kind of began imo...
But the circumstances that led here maybe were not part of the initial plan.
But Sather (via allowing limited cap space burning over $4,2 M to players not playing) has limited the realistic options and there is apparently no backup plan at all! By either Torts or Sather. Maybe it is difficult to have one though with the above mentioned intangibles... but these guys are paid a lot of money to figure this out! It seems a bit like Catholic birth control to me - "make love & pray"... lol (my fiancé is Catholic btw). Throw a bunch of guys out on the ice, yell at them, mix em up constantly & hope for the best. TORTS hockey! A player I know very well that won a Cup with him actually said exactly this to me...
Far too easy to outplay & outcoach the 3 grinder - one goal-finder lineup as the balanced offensive threat is taken out (only one line with real offensive upside and THEY WILL BE PLAYED TOO MUCH & BURNED OUT ESP WITH TORTS behind the bench - REST ASSURED) far too easy by any team/coach that knows their hockey
Hardchecking, dirty play against our top scoring line and there will be no retribution at all... We will win SOG 60%70% of the time but lose a huge amount of one goal games (Sorry Hank). Damning posts, Bettman, referees, the coach & GM and in the End many will scream for the return of Avery (not the solution!!!).
I am afraid we will see a lot of this if things/the lineup remains the same...
Here is a summary of the real flaw with this whole thinking
SO - unless the PACK line (and or Boyles line) can refind some real offensive creativity (only 3 games in - I know) this lineup will not be fun nor satisfying to follow. Most coaches will figure this out soon enough and it will be a loooonnnnngggg season. We will be like deers in the headlights going "What happened - we were supposed to get better and compete this year..." and the "let´s tank" fetish will see a new light.
Watch & see.


Last edited by BBKers: 10-18-2011 at 04:22 AM.
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Old
10-18-2011, 08:10 AM
  #19
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I feel like our offense is set to kick in on this trip. Yes, I know we're facing teams which will not be easy to do it against, but I think the Rangers are going to come out angry and start putting pucks in the net.

I hope I'm right.

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10-18-2011, 08:16 AM
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Wolski doesn't really need to be traded yet. He needs to actually be given a legitimate stretch of games with Dubi and Richards to see if we can get something out of him.
Agreed. He deserves another shot playing injury-free on the top line. However, should he fail, the bright spot for us is that he's likely gone next year and he'll take his $3.8 mil cap hit with him.

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10-18-2011, 08:36 AM
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so why exactly is Dale Weise a Canuck now?

Could they not of sent Zuke down to start the yr and kept Weise as the 4th line RW. Atleast he is a grinding winger which is what they need on the 4th line. Terrible Asset management

Rupp, Newbury, Wesie makes alot more sense that Wolski on the 4th line when he should get a chance on the top.

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10-18-2011, 09:30 AM
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Seriously need some results on this trip. Flames, Oilers, and Jets are very beatable, and Canucks have not gotten off to a great start. Need at least four points out of the four games...but five or six would be better.

If they come home with a total of five points or less after their first seven games...not good. They would be battling uphill for quite a while.

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10-18-2011, 09:41 AM
  #23
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so why exactly is Dale Weise a Canuck now?

Could they not of sent Zuke down to start the yr and kept Weise as the 4th line RW. Atleast he is a grinding winger which is what they need on the 4th line. Terrible Asset management

Rupp, Newbury, Wesie makes alot more sense that Wolski on the 4th line when he should get a chance on the top.
Because as Torts said in his recent talk with the media, "we had better players than him at that time."

I really hope our head coach doesn't use two days of bag skates, and a couple scrimmages to assess who makes our team in pre-season.

Then again, this is a guy who never seems to know a damn thing about anyone in our system and whenever we acquire someone he says he doesn't know who the hell he is.

So it wouldn't surprise me.


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Originally Posted by Matteau Matteau View Post
Agreed. He deserves another shot playing injury-free on the top line. However, should he fail, the bright spot for us is that he's likely gone next year and he'll take his $3.8 mil cap hit with him.
Yeah I mean there is just no purpose for Wolski unless we give him a chance to play with guys who are going to get ice time and create offense. Playing him on the 4th line with Rupp is just as dumb as MZA. Like, beyond dumb.

Then we'll hear from people who'll say he doesn't deserve more ice time cause he didn't look good for 7 minutes next to Mike Rupp.


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Originally Posted by Zer0flames View Post
I would hope Zucc would have found some success on a 3rd line, but as Leslie's article points out, he doesn't have much spot on the team. It's frustrating, and i think we all like the kid, But with Gaborik, Callahan, and Prust in your line up, there's really only one spot for a right winger, and it wasn't right for Zucc. I agree with sending him to CT to get 20 someodd minutes a game, as i wish we could do with Erixon. If he gets more acclimated to the north american game and better defensively, and we could pencil him in on a 3rd line, I would LOVE it. Right now that hasn't been the case. But he's still young. We'll see.

Wolski is different. There's practically a spot carved out for him on our talent heavy 1st line. He's somewhat par defensively, when he's involved, but past his impact on the score, he doesn't often impact the game. Again, i would love for him to find a groove with B-Rich and Gabby, but if he doesn't fit, then you need to see what he can do for the team. He HAS the talent, which makes it more frustrating. IF he cannot play the role that we need him to, it's harmful to both the Rangers and Wolski to continue on that path. I honestly despise trading established player, but if it's not a good match, sometimes you have to accept it. I still would take him over Rozi every day of the week and twice on sundays.

Honestly, I don't pay much mind to who deserves the minutes, or has paid their dues. The GM and coach need to play the guys and lines that they think gives the team the best chance to win.

I still like the Rupp signing. I think he's the only 4th line type player on our fouth line save for Newbury. Also, and this is pretty cool, he is one of two players on the roster who has a stanley cup winning goal (Feds has the other, the year after!)

Finally, Cally had 2 good games, one less so. Dubi hasn't been able to get the offensive groove he had, but his puck possession is still incredible.

At this point I just don't see how MZA has a future with this organization, and I would doubt that he even wants to be a part of it at this point.

I disagree with you about taking Wolski over Rozsival every day of the week. Rosi was so undervalued here it was insane. And while moving him allowed us to establish players like McDonagh and Sauer (there play made that trade possible), I don't think there's any way anyone could say that Wolski has been an asset since we received him. I understand he hasn't had nearly as much time as Rosi but Wolski has been a huge disappointment. Which makes sense since that was his M.O.

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10-18-2011, 10:15 AM
  #24
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I feel like our offense is set to kick in on this trip. Yes, I know we're facing teams which will not be easy to do it against, but I think the Rangers are going to come out angry and start putting pucks in the net.

I hope I'm right.
Maybe we'll get our first PP goal.

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10-18-2011, 10:51 AM
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Torts just uses the 4th line as his talent turn-style for whenever someone is having a bad game, or not creating chemistry somewhere. That's the problem, there is no 4th line. If he is going to utilize it like that, then why the **** would they sign Rupp? So long as their is always a skill guy getting demoted to that line, there will always be someone Rupp can't keep up with mentally or physically. Torts knows this, and he should not have given MZA a non-spot knowing this, Weise should have been retained, or another AHL grinder kept up to begin with.

Either make it a grinder line, or make it a skill line for players having bad games, to mix up the chemistry. Not half and half.

I'd rather see three animals with ice-skates on gliding down the ice than their fourth-line right now, at least that would be funny.

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