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'IF' 1 of big 3 go....

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:19 PM
  #1
maplepred
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'IF' 1 of big 3 go....

I was just debating this with a buddy last night and thought I would run it past you guys,

Say we had to deal one of the big three because it was clear they were not all re-signing. What kind of deal would we be looking for?!?!

Here is my thoughts,

Weber is RFA and captain still next year so I think if one goes its either rinne or suter.
I imagine we are in the thick of playoff race as usual so if trade happens it won't be until after playoffs.


Do you think if we traded suter or rinne at the NHL draft (and gave the team negotiating rights before trading so they had him signed), do you think we could pull out a suter or rinne for the first overall pick in this coming draft??

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10-17-2011, 01:04 PM
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Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
I was just debating this with a buddy last night and thought I would run it past you guys,

Say we had to deal one of the big three because it was clear they were not all re-signing. What kind of deal would we be looking for?!?!

Here is my thoughts,

Weber is RFA and captain still next year so I think if one goes its either rinne or suter.
I imagine we are in the thick of playoff race as usual so if trade happens it won't be until after playoffs.


Do you think if we traded suter or rinne at the NHL draft (and gave the team negotiating rights before trading so they had him signed), do you think we could pull out a suter or rinne for the first overall pick in this coming draft??
I would hope that we could get more than just a first overall pick for one of the best Defensemen/Goalies in the league ... but that's just me

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10-17-2011, 01:24 PM
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maplepred
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
I would hope that we could get more than just a first overall pick for one of the best Defensemen/Goalies in the league ... but that's just me
True true. But I mean yakupov and grigorenko look to be pretty damn good! Could be the top line guy we need! Although it would probably be to late if season is over already. I just would love to see us in a position to pick first overall just once!


Maybe they throw in a defenseman/goalie as well (depending on if we trade suter or rinne).

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10-17-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
True true. But I mean yakupov and grigorenko look to be pretty damn good! Could be the top line guy we need! Although it would probably be to late if season is over already. I just would love to see us in a position to pick first overall just once!


Maybe they throw in a defenseman/goalie as well (depending on if we trade suter or rinne).
I have a thing against Russians

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10-17-2011, 02:47 PM
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TMI
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Honestly, I don't the team with the first overall pick dealing it for Suter or Rinne unless he is signed to an extension already. Otherwise, they would have to be able to negotiate a contract ahead of time, and I'm not so sure either of them is going to be willing to go to the team that probably just finished in the bottom five. And if there is already an extension signed then it kind of defeats the purpose of the debate.

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10-17-2011, 02:49 PM
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I Will Son
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Maybe this russian could help bring another russian back

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10-17-2011, 03:26 PM
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maplepred
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
Maybe this russian could help bring another russian back
That was my next point as well, plus yakupov already is playing in Canada for sarnia in the ohl and is tearing it up!


Also, thirdmanin, In NY original post I said that the team acquiring suter or rinne would have negotiation rights to get deal done before the trade happens

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10-17-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
Maybe this russian could help bring another russian back
Or that russian could help defect the other russian

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10-17-2011, 04:00 PM
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Throw the season...
Win lottery pick...
Draft Yakupov 1st overall...
Trade for 2nd overall...
Draft Grigorenko...
Call Radulov...
Play Yakupov - Grigorenko - Radulov...
Drink from Cup...
Watch all three go to KHL season after...

I honestly don't see a team trading the 1st or 2nd overall for Suter or Rinne with the talent available.

If Nashville loses either Poile will probably wait until it's too late and get no or little return. Hopefully all three stick around.

As for the draft, expect to be picking right around the time the talent pool starts to weaken... just like always.

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10-17-2011, 06:17 PM
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maplepred
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Just because radulov left doesn't mean every Russian will as well. I mean not very many have really outside of rads.

There is also a ton of guys over there who are born in north America! Better avoid drafting them as well

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10-17-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
That was my next point as well, plus yakupov already is playing in Canada for sarnia in the ohl and is tearing it up!


Also, thirdmanin, In NY original post I said that the team acquiring suter or rinne would have negotiation rights to get deal done before the trade happens
I missed that, but I stand by my point. I'm not sure any of the three signs with a team that is rebuilding, and it's likely that the team with the #1 overall is going to be in some stage of rebuilding. Of course, stranger things have happened, and I'm often wrong

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10-17-2011, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
Just because radulov left doesn't mean every Russian will as well. I mean not very many have really outside of rads.

There is also a ton of guys over there who are born in north America! Better avoid drafting them as well
My post was a joke. Can you imagine Radu taking two possible superstar Russians under his wing? That line would own, but I wouldn't want Radu to be their mentor. Doesn't matter anyways... won't happen.

I still don't think a team would trade #1 or #2 overall for Rinne or Suter.

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10-17-2011, 11:43 PM
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maplepred
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I think suter 'or' rinne are both worth a first overall. As long as negotiating rights are added for other team, but then maybe they have to add as well?

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10-18-2011, 12:08 AM
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Well the way this team is performing at the moment they can't afford to loose Rinne. They would be dead in the water by christmas.

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10-18-2011, 12:52 AM
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If we're just talking about the negotiating rights for Suter or Rinne, we're not gonna get more than a 2nd/3rd round pick back. Maybe both could get us a late 1st, but I doubt it. Team's are not going to give up a high end 1st for something they could get for free in 2 weeks.

I really still don't know who I'd let go if we had to let one go. All 3 make very big cases to stay. Tough, tough situation we're in.

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10-18-2011, 01:24 AM
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I was reading on the Edmonton boards and they were all joking about "See Suter, you should come here this summer!" and stuff, which, while just jokes for the most part, is scaring me because if this keeps up, there is no reason for them to stay. Why play in a small market with little exposure for a bad team? We can't fail, because we need to show them we can win to told them here.

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10-18-2011, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I was reading on the Edmonton boards and they were all joking about "See Suter, you should come here this summer!" and stuff, which, while just jokes for the most part, is scaring me because if this keeps up, there is no reason for them to stay. Why play in a small market with little exposure for a bad team? We can't fail, because we need to show them we can win to told them here.
Again, this has been my point from day one. Look at all those contracts coming up next offseason... it is scary. If we don't prove we are willing to win we could be taking a huge step backwards.

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10-18-2011, 03:10 AM
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you guys are crazy

not even crosby's "negotiating rights" are worth a 1st overall pick, hell probably not even a late 1st

conditional upon signing sure i guess, but if that was the case the team could just wait until ~june 28 (after the upcoming draft) and the pick would be deferred to 2013 and that team would have just become ALOT better meaning the 2013 pick would lose alot of value

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10-18-2011, 12:20 PM
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What I was saying is that if a tram will give us the first overall pick for like say suter, the deal only goes through if suter and this new team Pre negotiate a multi year contract.
This way they get a locked up suter and we get first overall pick for him. This way we get a future star 18 year old, save enough money to maybe bring in another scorer as well, plus re sign webs and rinne

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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
you guys are crazy

not even crosby's "negotiating rights" are worth a 1st overall pick, hell probably not even a late 1st

conditional upon signing sure i guess, but if that was the case the team could just wait until ~june 28 (after the upcoming draft) and the pick would be deferred to 2013 and that team would have just become ALOT better meaning the 2013 pick would lose alot of value

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10-18-2011, 12:31 PM
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IF we do have to trade one of of the three... it will be very sad situation.

1) It sends the message we will never be true contenders.

2) We have missed our opportunity to get a truly great return. Rinne and Suter are impending UFAs... they would get something decent in return, but their value is severely diminished by being UFA this summer.

So in my book we HAVE to sign Suter and Rinne, or it will be piss poor asset management by Poile.

Weber doesn't have the impending UFA sticker, so from an asset mgmt standpoint, he would definitely return the most.

BUT, this is Poile we are talking about. These kinds of moves are too difficult to think about. His time is better spent sending telegrams and getting bullish about 2nd rd picks.

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10-18-2011, 07:25 PM
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maplepred
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Don't you think if we could re sign weber and rinne, then get someone good via free agency in July, then have the same core team minus suter but plus Doug Murray/Braydon coburn and also plus nail yakupov!?!!

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10-19-2011, 11:16 AM
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I've changed my stance on this now. Suter IMHO is our most important piece.

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10-19-2011, 11:35 AM
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The first 5 games of this season have made one thing abundantly clear to me. Rinne is the most important piece of this team. We wouldn't have a point without him.

Rinne


Suter
Weber

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10-19-2011, 01:11 PM
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maplepred
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So do you think it would be a good idea to let suter or weber get dealt for a high end pick plus something else as well to help our defense (solid veteran) Then we re sign weber/suter and also re sign rinne and still have lots of money left over to bring in someone via free agency, not to mention two first round picks (one very high) that could help right away as well.


The key is acting now or we don't get anything close to the value of one of the big defensemen


Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
The first 5 games of this season have made one thing abundantly clear to me. Rinne is the most important piece of this team. We wouldn't have a point without him.

Rinne


Suter
Weber

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10-19-2011, 01:27 PM
  #25
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by maplepred View Post
So do you think it would be a good idea to let suter or weber get dealt for a high end pick plus something else as well to help our defense (solid veteran) Then we re sign weber/suter and also re sign rinne and still have lots of money left over to bring in someone via free agency, not to mention two first round picks (one very high) that could help right away as well.
Weber is going to return way more than Suter at this point, primarily because of his RFA sticker, and he's a hotter commodity in general.

If he's dealt, it HAS to be a top-end forward. Not "top 6". We've gone long enough without true offensive difference makers, and it will haunt us forever if we don't get at least one. IF we trade him for only picks and/or a dman, we will be in true rebuild mode.

It will create a huge hole in an already shaky defense past Weber/Suter, so yes, if we want to be competitive, we need to find a way to at least get some stop-gap vet dmen.


Last edited by dulzhok: 10-19-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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