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When will Schenn be recalled?

View Poll Results: When will Schenn be called up again?
After the first game 11 20.37%
Before game 10 26 48.15%
After more than 10 games are played 12 22.22%
Not before someone is injured 5 9.26%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:02 AM
  #176
Protest
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Umberger was our 4th line center for about half the season. The Flyers constantly had different players playing the 4th line. Patrick Sharp played it, and also Mike Richards. Just go back to that season on hfboards and look at the GDT.
Yea, I remember when he was demoted.

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10-18-2011, 10:03 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Not if you want him to work on his defensive abilities. If he goes to the 4th line it will be he, Nodl, and Talbot. That is not a normal Flyer's 4th line. That line would be used the way Lappy, Betts, and Carcillo were in 2009. They would be the checking line, and he would wind up averaging over 12 minutes a night. He isn't Rinaldo or Shelley, he is going to play more than 5 minutes a night even if he is on he 4th line.

Giving an 18/19 year old kid 12+ minutes a night, top PK time, and situational (late, holding a lead) time is not going to hurt him.
If that's the case then I'd be ok with it, but I'm just not so sure that is how it would go down. I don't think he'll get 5 minutes a night, but I don't see him getting 12+, especially if Read and Couturier are playing PP/PK minutes. I'd see it more in the 8-10 minutes a night range.

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:04 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Couts is already playing that role on the third line........

Betts and Lappy are penalty killers
....
So is he. And he can still play that role on the 4th line. Which is why there is no difference between him playing the 3rd or 4th line, and why playing on the 4th line won't hurt him.

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10-18-2011, 10:04 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Not if you want him to work on his defensive abilities. If he goes to the 4th line it will be he, Nodl, and Talbot. That is not a normal Flyer's 4th line. That line would be used the way Lappy, Betts, and Carcillo were in 2009. They would be the checking line, and he would wind up averaging over 12 minutes a night. He isn't Rinaldo or Shelley, he is going to play more than 5 minutes a night even if he is on he 4th line.

Giving an 18/19 year old kid 12+ minutes a night, top PK time, and situational (late, holding a lead) time is not going to hurt him.



He averaged 12 minutes of ice time. Less than Betts, Carcillo, and Lappy did when they were the 4th line.
Regardless of what we label the lines, this is the key though. If we are to put one of Schenn, Couturier or Read on the fourth line, that line will see a fair amount of ice time, and in key situations at that. It won't hurt anyone's development.

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:05 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If that's the case then I'd be ok with it, but I'm just not so sure that is how it would go down. I don't think he'll get 5 minutes a night, but I don't see him getting 12+, especially if Read and Couturier are playing PP/PK minutes. I'd see it more in the 8-10 minutes a night range.
Sorry I meant Couturier playing the 4th line.

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10-18-2011, 10:09 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Sorry I meant Couturier playing the 4th line.
Ok, yeah I can see them doing with that Couturier. I just don't like the idea of either of the team's top prospects getting under 10 minutes a night. If they're on the fourth line fine, if they are getting more time on PP/PK. If they are down there playing 8 minutes a night, it is a waste.

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10-18-2011, 10:09 AM
  #182
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Unless it would hurt the improved locker room chemistry too much, I think the Flyers need to take a hard look at trading Hartnell, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have explored the option. I'm not jumping on the ZOMG HARTNELL SUCKS NOW bandwagon, but his salary definitely makes him the odd man out and I really think getting a solid D-man in return for him and opening up a top-9 spot and some cap space is better than any other option. If they'd waive Shelley too, then they'd really have some money to play with.

Has it ever been clarified whether the story with Schenn's B bonus was BS or not? Lots of outlets are assuming he has a lower cap hit now, but plenty folks were saying that there was no such bonus and his cap hit would be full-strength adjusted for time in the AHL. That obviously makes a big difference.

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:11 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
So is he. And he can still play that role on the 4th line. Which is why there is no difference between him playing the 3rd or 4th line, and why playing on the 4th line won't hurt him.
Those players don't compliment him well at all. He has excellent offensive potential as well. He gets more EV TOI playing on the 3rd.

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10-18-2011, 10:14 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by McDugan View Post
Unless it would hurt the improved locker room chemistry too much, I think the Flyers need to take a hard look at trading Hartnell, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have explored the option. I'm not jumping on the ZOMG HARTNELL SUCKS NOW bandwagon, but his salary definitely makes him the odd man out and I really think getting a solid D-man in return for him and opening up a top-9 spot and some cap space is better than any other option. If they'd waive Shelley too, then they'd really have some money to play with.

Has it ever been clarified whether the story with Schenn's B bonus was BS or not? Lots of outlets are assuming he has a lower cap hit now, but plenty folks were saying that there was no such bonus and his cap hit would be full-strength adjusted for time in the AHL. That obviously makes a big difference.
Why do we need to trade our power forward? The goal was to get bigger on the wing but now were going to trade that size? Makes no sense. Plus we don't need anymore defenseman. If we look at defenseman it needs to be prospects coming back.

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10-18-2011, 10:24 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Those players don't compliment him well at all. He has excellent offensive potential as well. He gets more EV TOI playing on the 3rd.
Talbot and Nödl are not offensive dynamos, but they're not complete slouches either. Nödl got time with Richards last year, and Talbot's been used on Malkin's wing pretty succesfully in the past. I'd rather not see them in our top 9, but I think Couturier would survive having played some of his rookie season between them.

I'm not saying I want to put Couturier there either, I'm just saying that having him (or Schenn, or Read) on the fourth line with the way we are using it atm, isn't going to be of any harm to the way he'll develop as a player.

Maybe Schenn finishes out the season in the AHL and there's no need for this debate, maybe we'll get a season-ending injury to one of our top 9 players, and there's no need for this debate. But plenty of players have started out their careers playing a lot less than 15-18 minutes/game.

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10-18-2011, 10:28 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Talbot and Nödl are not offensive dynamos, but they're not complete slouches either. Nödl got time with Richards last year, and Talbot's been used on Malkin's wing pretty succesfully in the past. I'd rather not see them in our top 9, but I think Couturier would survive having played some of his rookie season between them.

I'm not saying I want to put Couturier there either, I'm just saying that having him (or Schenn, or Read) on the fourth line with the way we are using it atm, isn't going to be of any harm to the way he'll develop as a player.

Maybe Schenn finishes out the season in the AHL and there's no need for this debate, maybe we'll get a season-ending injury to one of our top 9 players, and there's no need for this debate. But plenty of players have started out their careers playing a lot less than 15-18 minutes/game.
Fair enough. I just think its a better for Schenn to work on ALL areas of his game in the AHL. He is getting PP,PK time and playing top minutes.

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:36 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Those players don't compliment him well at all. He has excellent offensive potential as well. He gets more EV TOI playing on the 3rd.
They compliment his defense just fine. He's not going to be an impact offensive player on this team this year. His defense is his biggest asset to us now, and he can still contribute a lot as a checker and pk'er.

He's a rookie, and a young one at that, and he is going to hit a wall eventually. Placing him on the 4th line and defining his role as a defensive asset takes the pressure off of him to perform offensively, so when his offense drys up it won't be a big deal. There's no demotion to the 4th line to go through because he's already there

It also makes perfect sense as a way to insert Schenn into the lineup on the 3rd line. He's older, and further along offensively. Schenn aslo most likely wouldn't be getting a lot of special teams time, and Couturier would still be getting top PK minutes.

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10-18-2011, 10:57 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Why do we need to trade our power forward? The goal was to get bigger on the wing but now were going to trade that size? Makes no sense. Plus we don't need anymore defenseman. If we look at defenseman it needs to be prospects coming back.
Sorry, should have been clearer - I was thinking [I]young[I] D but didn't say it. Like I said, I'm not dogging Hartnell, and I'm not in love with the idea of getting rid of him. But I believe he's the odd man out in terms of his $$ cost to the team vs. his value to the team. I think he's not likely to be re-signed when his contract is up and management is obviously making moves with more than "right now" in mind.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:02 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Poor Read. Does really well his first 4 games and people still dont want him on the team. I doubt they send Read down though. He is on 2nd pk and 1 pp.
i never said that i just said i think schenn is better then read

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10-18-2011, 06:03 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
i never said that i just said i think schenn is better then read
I want him on the team as well, I'd just like Schenn as well to be on the team with him.

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10-18-2011, 06:09 PM
  #191
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I want him on the team as well, I'd just like Schenn as well to be on the team with him.
it just really sucks that the cap situation hasn't been ironed out so even though there is now an opportunity w/ the nodl injury he still won't get his chance

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10-18-2011, 06:14 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Why do we need to trade our power forward? The goal was to get bigger on the wing but now were going to trade that size? Makes no sense. Plus we don't need anymore defenseman. If we look at defenseman it needs to be prospects coming back.
How many power forwards does one team need?

You have JVR, Jagr, Voracek, Simmonds, who are all above 6'2 and can all hold their own on the boards as far as puck possession.

I know Jagr and Voracek don't fit the conventional "power forward" definition, but I lumped them in there since I think you were referring to the fact that we complained about not having size and getting outbattled on the boards. We now have 5 wingers in the top 9 who can more than hold their own on the boards (I'd even throw Read in there from what I've seen so far). The difference is, Hartnell has a higher cap hit than most of those wingers and doesn't have as much skill as most of those wingers.

I'm not saying I think Hartnell stinks. I don't. I just think he has been surpassed by Simmonds and therefore in his current diminished role, he isn't as valuable to us. I think that Schenn's style of play would create better chemistry amongst our lines. So with Schenn sitting there seemingly ready for the call-up, I'd prefer to see Hartnell gone.

So if it were up to me, I'd be shopping Hartnell. My favorite idea that I've come across so far is Hartnell + Carle + some picks for Ryan Suter. Don't know if that is possible, but something along those lines... Hartnell + Carle for a young stud blue-liner. It would improve the team right away and also leave us better off for the future b/c we desperately need a young stud defenseman... it's one of the few things we're currently lacking as an organization.

If we can't get anything of significant value for Hartnell, then obviously you keep him and I think you look at rolling 4 scoring lines, no goons.

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10-18-2011, 06:37 PM
  #193
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I have a really hard time understanding how a player can be surpassed by another player 4 games into the Season. Or how a player can be deemed expendable 4 games into a Season. Do we forget history and how fast things can change in the game? The Flyers were cruising along at the top of the NHL standings last year, and look what happened. It's a long Season, and things change. Nobody has been surpassed or needs to be traded 4 games into a Season.

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10-19-2011, 08:34 AM
  #194
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How Brayden Schenn Fits into the Flyers’ Cap Puzzle
http://nhlhotstove.com/how-brayden-s...rs-cap-puzzle/

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10-19-2011, 08:59 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
it just really sucks that the cap situation hasn't been ironed out so even though there is now an opportunity w/ the nodl injury he still won't get his chance
There really isn't a cap situation. They can fit Schenn in whenever they want, with a few minor moves. I think the bigger issue is, they don't know how to fit everyone into their lineup.

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10-19-2011, 09:22 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Nobody has been surpassed or needs to be traded 4 games into a Season.
I agree with your sentiment, but IF getting Schenn up with the big club is a priority, something has to be done to make it possible. Personally, this is something I would have been looking to do before the season began, nothi9ng to do with anyone's performance or lack thereof in the first few games.

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10-19-2011, 10:18 AM
  #197
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I agree with your sentiment, but IF getting Schenn up with the big club is a priority, something has to be done to make it possible. Personally, this is something I would have been looking to do before the season began, nothi9ng to do with anyone's performance or lack thereof in the first few games.
Well, I think what they were doing was delaying that decision as long as possible. They planned to give Couturier his 9 or 10 games (depending upon your favorite wording in the CBA). If Couturier flopped, the decision is made for them, and they don't have to do a thing (as far as deciding where he fits. They'd still have to make minor maneuvers for some cap space.). If Couturier sticks, as he appears to be doing, now they realize they've got to figure out how they plan to fit everyone in the lineup.

Better to wait, than to make room for Schenn, only to have Couturier get sent back, and now we made room for nothing.

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10-19-2011, 10:25 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
They compliment his defense just fine. He's not going to be an impact offensive player on this team this year. His defense is his biggest asset to us now, and he can still contribute a lot as a checker and pk'er.

He's a rookie, and a young one at that, and he is going to hit a wall eventually. Placing him on the 4th line and defining his role as a defensive asset takes the pressure off of him to perform offensively, so when his offense drys up it won't be a big deal. There's no demotion to the 4th line to go through because he's already there

It also makes perfect sense as a way to insert Schenn into the lineup on the 3rd line. He's older, and further along offensively. Schenn aslo most likely wouldn't be getting a lot of special teams time, and Couturier would still be getting top PK minutes.
I don't think Couturier will hit a wall!

I rather believe that he will get better and better as the season advances.

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10-19-2011, 10:34 AM
  #199
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Schenn's called up!

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10-19-2011, 01:31 PM
  #200
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