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Vladimir Tarasenko

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Old
10-17-2011, 06:15 PM
  #151
Cujomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman View Post
What I don't get is, why a player like Ovechkin can score at less then a ppg in the RSL can be considered a franchise player and then Tarensenko, who is on pace for something like 1.5 ppg, isn't.
Because Ovechkin was putting up 106 points in the NHL 2 years after his draft -- not playing in the KHL.

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10-17-2011, 07:29 PM
  #152
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Well yeah, but I mean at his draft. He was taken 1st overall, he didn't have better numbers then tarensenko as a 17-18 year old.

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10-17-2011, 08:22 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman View Post
Well yeah, but I mean at his draft. He was taken 1st overall, he didn't have better numbers then tarensenko as a 17-18 year old.
From what I gather the RSL was a lower scoring league so while their raw numbers may be the comparable, Ovechkin scoring what he did in the RSL was more impressive than what Tarasenko did in the KHL. Plus lets not forget Ovechkin is better at pretty much everything, and at the draft projected to have a higher ceiling at everything. If Tarasenko's scouting report looked like Ovechkin's someone would have gambled on him before the 16th overall pick.

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10-17-2011, 09:56 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
From what I gather the RSL was a lower scoring league so while their raw numbers may be the comparable, Ovechkin scoring what he did in the RSL was more impressive than what Tarasenko did in the KHL. Plus lets not forget Ovechkin is better at pretty much everything, and at the draft projected to have a higher ceiling at everything. If Tarasenko's scouting report looked like Ovechkin's someone would have gambled on him before the 16th overall pick.
You have no idea what you talking about. Ovechkin is superb player but obviously he wasnt as good as Tarasenko or Malkin in Russia at age 19-20. Tarasenko is currently among the best in KHL but Ovechkin wasnt even best in Dynamo back then.

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10-17-2011, 10:04 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Because Ovechkin was putting up 106 points in the NHL 2 years after his draft -- not playing in the KHL.
You are right but his stats in RSL were not great compared to Tarasenko. Right now we can compare only comparable things- WJC and Russian league and Tarasenko has been more successful than Ovy was. However it dosnt mean that Tarasenko is going to be as good as Ovechkin in NHL.


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10-17-2011, 11:08 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by pouskin74 View Post
You have no idea what you talking about. Ovechkin is superb player but obviously he wasnt as good as Tarasenko or Malkin in Russia at age 19-20. Tarasenko is currently among the best in KHL but Ovechkin wasnt even best in Dynamo back then.
He was talking prior to draft. Sorry but if Tarasenko was as good as Ovechkin prior to the draft he would have been taken in the first few picks of the draft not at #16, Russian factor or not. I'm glad the Blues snagged him but he is not an Ovechkin caliber talent.

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10-17-2011, 11:28 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
He was talking prior to draft. Sorry but if Tarasenko was as good as Ovechkin prior to the draft he would have been taken in the first few picks of the draft not at #16, Russian factor or not. I'm glad the Blues snagged him but he is not an Ovechkin caliber talent.
Ovechkin was selected at time when there was no case with KHL and other No agreement cases around russians. Yakupov wouldnt be currently on top spot neither top 10 if he would stayed in Russia. So again , Tarasenko might be not in the same talent level with Ovy but who knows? All other indicators beyond the spot on Draft are pretty equal.

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:49 PM
  #158
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If folks really want to compare Ovechkin's RSL numbers to Tarasenko's KHL numbers (which I personally think is an exercise in futility), they should at least compare them at the same age. Tarasenko's currently tearing up the KHL in his 2nd season after being drafted but in Ovie's 2nd seasons after being drafted he was tearing up the NHL besting Sidney Crosby for the Calder Trophy. In their respective 1st seasons after being drafted, here are the stats:

Ovie in RSL: 37 GP, 13 G, 13 A, 26 PTS, 32 PIM
Vova in KHL: 42 GP, 9 G, 10 A, 19 PTS, 8 PIM

Tarasenko's a heck of a prospect and as a Blues fan I'm thrilled to have him but comparing him to Ovie isn't fair to the kid. I haven't heard a single scout say Tarasenko's overall talent and upside is to the level of Ovechkin. There's always the chance he does end up being that good but he doesn't project THAT high and I'm sure not going to expect him to reach that elite of a level...although I do think he's going to be damn good.

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10-17-2011, 11:54 PM
  #159
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What were Ovie's minutes like though?

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10-18-2011, 12:12 AM
  #160
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What were Ovie's minutes like though?
Low.

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10-18-2011, 12:24 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by pouskin74 View Post
Ovechkin was selected at time when there was no case with KHL and other No agreement cases around russians. Yakupov wouldnt be currently on top spot neither top 10 if he would stayed in Russia. So again , Tarasenko might be not in the same talent level with Ovy but who knows? All other indicators beyond the spot on Draft are pretty equal.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, I guess it's kind of silly to argue over that now. I just take exception when fellow Blues fans use the "he scored like Ovechkin did in Russa!" argument. That just leads to overrating and then most likely disappointment when he doesn't reach that level in the NHL. I had that exact same conversation with some friends this weekend so maybe it just grated on me a little extra today.

If I were to make a realistic projection for him and compared his overall talent level(not style) to other Russian wingers then somewhere between Radulov and Semin is a fair projection without going to much into the overrating area. If he exceeds that, great! But if that is what we realistically see from him, then we are likely to come out with one of the top 5-6 players from that draft class.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:57 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, I guess it's kind of silly to argue over that now. I just take exception when fellow Blues fans use the "he scored like Ovechkin did in Russa!" argument. That just leads to overrating and then most likely disappointment when he doesn't reach that level in the NHL. I had that exact same conversation with some friends this weekend so maybe it just grated on me a little extra today.

If I were to make a realistic projection for him and compared his overall talent level(not style) to other Russian wingers then somewhere between Radulov and Semin is a fair projection without going to much into the overrating area. If he exceeds that, great! But if that is what we realistically see from him, then we are likely to come out with one of the top 5-6 players from that draft class.
This the "will be" game about projects is the stupidest game ever. But people still like it. So we can talk about anything - nobody will execute us if we turn out to be wrong...

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Old
10-18-2011, 09:38 AM
  #163
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You also have to realize that there's more to scouting than stats.

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Old
10-18-2011, 10:14 AM
  #164
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1 more goal from Taras today.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:18 PM
  #165
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And he almost had a second with a dirty move (at 3:10).



Man he's on fire. Wonder if he can keep it up season long?

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10-18-2011, 01:20 PM
  #166
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The goal was terrible, but he made his signature move later in the game and would have scored if he finished strong on the forehand rather than trying the stupid Forsberg move.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:21 PM
  #167
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1.) Tarasenko is so much more than a scoring winger.
STLFaninIA produced their stats at 18 years old. When they were each 17 (prior to draft, here were their respective numbers):

Ovy (in RSL) = 53 GP, 13G, 11A, 24PTS, .45 PTS/GP
Tarasenko (in KHL) = 42 GP, 13G, 11A, 24PTS, .57PTS/GP

Inexplicably, Tarasenko dropped in scoring in his 18 year old season, despite a tremendous WJC that proved he was one of the best U20s in the world. My guess is it has to do with how Tarasenko was used.

Now, he's on the front line playing with another Blues prospect, Jori Lehtera, who's an excellent playmaking center, and with the proper ice time and linemates he's dominating the KHL, like was really expected last season.

He's on pace to outdo Malkin's 19 year old numbers this season if he keeps it up, which are the best i've ever seen for a 19 year old in the RSL/KHL. Tarasenko's scoring curve very closesly matches Pavel Bure:

17 - Bure: 0.81pts/gp, Tarasenko: 0.57pts/gp
18 - Bure: 0.52pts/gp, Tarasenko: 0.45pts/gp
19 - Bure: 1.04pts/gp, Tarasenko: (currently) 1.20pts/gp

Realistically, Tarasenko will probably end up somewhere around bure's 1.04pts/gp in 2011-12. Bure scored 60 pts in 65 gp his rookie season.

I think that type of production can be expected from Tarasenko next season.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:25 PM
  #168
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Hi, friends!
My name is Dmitry Erykalov. I - sports journalist, writing about hockey. I live in Novosibirsk, and for several years been following Tarasenko.

No need to argue who is better: Tarasenko or Ovechkin. IMHO, Ovechkin - superplayer. Tarasenko - only on this way.

The style is very influenced by Tarasenko, that before the Draft, he gained weight. Last season, Vladimir proved himself as a power forward. He rarely uses of force techniques, but often uses his weight, avoiding defenders.
Previously, Tarasenko had problems with the accuracy of the throw. Sometimes he tried to play too much individually. Importantly - to Vladimir season 2010/2011 was a good central striker.

I watched the "Sibir" and Tarasenko in friendlies. The best line was Enlund - Lehtera - Tarasenko. They are very well aware of each other, did a lot of fast transmission, played a very creative way. But even then the coaches experimented, moving from one Tarasenko three in another. Dmitri Yushkevich told me that the coaches want to Vladimir Tarasenko was more independent, and not to score points by Enlund and Lehtera.

In the regular season KHL Tarasenko first played in the link with Enlund and Lehtera, but now comes the second or third line. Tarasenko returned to the Finnish faceoffdruzyam most critical moments in games. He played fantastically together with the Finnish center forward Jori Lehtera, who also drafted Blues. Lehtera not only one of the best scorers in the KHL, but 63.6% - the best indicator of face-off.

However, Tarasenko scored without Lehtera, never turning off the game.

I think the result should be compared Tarasenko last season in Russia Malkin. Evgeni Malkin was the leader of "Metallurg", typing in the regular season 47 points in 46 games. Tarasenko can be expected from about 50 points.

Tarasenko, Kuznetsov and other prodigy of the "Tractor" for the new season getting a lot of ice time - it is very good. They justify the trust.

I can answer your questions.

PS: sorry for bad english, I'm helping Google translator

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10-18-2011, 01:27 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
You also have to realize that there's more to scouting than stats.
+10000000000000000000

Many of the top scorers in the OHL, WHL and QMJHL get drafted in the late rounds (or simply go undrafted) every single year, yet guys like Milan Lucic get drafted in the 2nd round with 19 points in 62 games in the dub. Great stats in other leagues do not necessarily translate to high NHL upside, especially when comparing prospects at different ages. I really like Tarasenko, a very good prospect who I think will be a skilled, hard working, 1st line NHL winger in his prime, but he's nowhere close to Ovie as a prospect. Ovie was much bigger, more explosive, a better stick handler, better shooter, more physical, just a better hockey player with much more upside in almost every way.

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10-18-2011, 02:05 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
+10000000000000000000

Many of the top scorers in the OHL, WHL and QMJHL get drafted in the late rounds (or simply go undrafted) every single year, yet guys like Milan Lucic get drafted in the 2nd round with 19 points in 62 games in the dub. Great stats in other leagues do not necessarily translate to high NHL upside, especially when comparing prospects at different ages. I really like Tarasenko, a very good prospect who I think will be a skilled, hard working, 1st line NHL winger in his prime, but he's nowhere close to Ovie as a prospect. Ovie was much bigger, more explosive, a better stick handler, better shooter, more physical, just a better hockey player with much more upside in almost every way.
Who knows. It's all as we russian say "written by pitchfork on a water"

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10-18-2011, 02:12 PM
  #171
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There is a chance he will turn out to be a "Filatov 2.0". But they are very different. Tarasenko is much tougher, backcheck and forcheck a lot, not afraid of hitting... He's got much more NHL in himself than Nikita.

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10-18-2011, 02:40 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
+10000000000000000000

Many of the top scorers in the OHL, WHL and QMJHL get drafted in the late rounds (or simply go undrafted) every single year, yet guys like Milan Lucic get drafted in the 2nd round with 19 points in 62 games in the dub. Great stats in other leagues do not necessarily translate to high NHL upside, especially when comparing prospects at different ages. I really like Tarasenko, a very good prospect who I think will be a skilled, hard working, 1st line NHL winger in his prime, but he's nowhere close to Ovie as a prospect. Ovie was much bigger, more explosive, a better stick handler, better shooter, more physical, just a better hockey player with much more upside in almost every way.
I agree with pretty much all that, however I think Tarasenko has better vision and hockey sense than Ovie did at that age. His raw skills may be a step below, but if he continues to develop he could be a real threat in the NHL. I keep saying he's a poor man's Ovechkin, which I still think is true.

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10-18-2011, 04:32 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Daffman View Post
Hi, friends!
My name is Dmitry Erykalov. I - sports journalist, writing about hockey. I live in Novosibirsk, and for several years been following Tarasenko.

No need to argue who is better: Tarasenko or Ovechkin. IMHO, Ovechkin - superplayer. Tarasenko - only on this way.

The style is very influenced by Tarasenko, that before the Draft, he gained weight. Last season, Vladimir proved himself as a power forward. He rarely uses of force techniques, but often uses his weight, avoiding defenders.
Previously, Tarasenko had problems with the accuracy of the throw. Sometimes he tried to play too much individually. Importantly - to Vladimir season 2010/2011 was a good central striker.

I watched the "Sibir" and Tarasenko in friendlies. The best line was Enlund - Lehtera - Tarasenko. They are very well aware of each other, did a lot of fast transmission, played a very creative way. But even then the coaches experimented, moving from one Tarasenko three in another. Dmitri Yushkevich told me that the coaches want to Vladimir Tarasenko was more independent, and not to score points by Enlund and Lehtera.

In the regular season KHL Tarasenko first played in the link with Enlund and Lehtera, but now comes the second or third line. Tarasenko returned to the Finnish faceoffdruzyam most critical moments in games. He played fantastically together with the Finnish center forward Jori Lehtera, who also drafted Blues. Lehtera not only one of the best scorers in the KHL, but 63.6% - the best indicator of face-off.

However, Tarasenko scored without Lehtera, never turning off the game.

I think the result should be compared Tarasenko last season in Russia Malkin. Evgeni Malkin was the leader of "Metallurg", typing in the regular season 47 points in 46 games. Tarasenko can be expected from about 50 points.

Tarasenko, Kuznetsov and other prodigy of the "Tractor" for the new season getting a lot of ice time - it is very good. They justify the trust.

I can answer your questions.

PS: sorry for bad english, I'm helping Google translator


Thank you for that.

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Old
10-18-2011, 04:35 PM
  #174
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It's going to be crazy adding Tarasenko to the Blues next year with their amount of talent. They are loaded with young talent, but lack a true game changer. He and Schwartz will make them a huge contender in the near future.

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10-18-2011, 06:06 PM
  #175
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And he almost had a second with a dirty move (at 3:10).



Man he's on fire. Wonder if he can keep it up season long?
He didn't score, but you all must check out the move starting at the 3:10 mark. Wait for the slow-motion replay. You're welcome.

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