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What's up with Bergfors?

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:02 AM
  #26
roseyc
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I think that when Fisher comes back and Erat comes back we'll waive Bergfors.

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10-17-2011, 12:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
I think that when Fisher comes back and Erat comes back we'll waive Bergfors.
I thought he was this year's Kostitsyn ... at least that's what Poile is claiming

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10-17-2011, 01:05 PM
  #28
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I thought he was this year's Kostitsyn ... at least that's what Poile is claiming
If you define "this year's Kostitsyn" as a low dollar contract towards a reclamation project of a kid with potential who may or may not succeed after changing scenery ... then, yes, he is.

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10-17-2011, 01:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by åboriginal View Post
can we have him back? please.
Not yet. Maybe later.

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Old
10-17-2011, 04:16 PM
  #30
triggrman
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I think our biggest problems right now in order are Hillen, Bergfors and O'Reilly.


Actually top 3 are Fisher, Erat, Boullion. However the first group really is hurting the team as well.

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10-17-2011, 04:36 PM
  #31
Roman Yoshi
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I think our biggest problems right now in order are Hillen, Bergfors and O'Reilly.


Actually top 3 are Fisher, Erat, Boullion. However the first group really is hurting the team as well.
3rd pairing, O'Reilly, Weber are my three. Weber's penalties have been costly. Glad he is standing up for teammates though... other guys need to be doing it so El Capitan avoids the box.

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10-17-2011, 05:00 PM
  #32
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Let's see, Suter gets boarded and Weber stands up for him. Good move. Rinne gets run, Weber lets Elias know that isn't acceptable. I'll take that as well. Remember, other guys took penalties that were much dumber than what Weber did.

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10-17-2011, 06:17 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
3rd pairing, O'Reilly, Weber are my three. Weber's penalties have been costly. Glad he is standing up for teammates though... other guys need to be doing it so El Capitan avoids the box.
That's O'Brien's job so he will....oh, wait.........

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10-17-2011, 07:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
I thought he was this year's Kostitsyn ... at least that's what Poile is claiming
Poile definitely claimed he was this years Kostistyn.. also heard him in a intermission report when asked about bergfors and his minutes played (they were really low) he said something along the lines of how Kostistyn started out on the fourth line and look where he is now...but he didnt mention SK74 had fractured foot when he started out or whatever. I dont know why he insists on having "this years kostistyn" i dont like the tone it sets... we got lucky with SK it hsouldnt be look for cheapest talent available see if it pans out.. if it doesnt oh well we just spent half a mil...

do that 5 times and it equals a legitimate investment like a goal scorer who will stick

well heres to hoping Bergie works out for us

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Old
10-17-2011, 09:59 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by cleangene View Post
That's O'Brien's job so he will....oh, wait.........
It's the job of whatever defenseman is on the ice when it happens. You have to react to that stuff right then to the person that did it.

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10-18-2011, 04:40 PM
  #36
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you look at the roster we (florida) had last year, and tallon didnt even bother to qualify him... that'll tell you a lot about his character and inconsistency.
I still have high hopes for him tho and I hope he can find a home in nashville and become a reliable NHLer

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10-18-2011, 05:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
It's the job of whatever defenseman is on the ice when it happens. You have to react to that stuff right then to the person that did it.
Why is there a need for Weber to stand up for anyone. Why is having the Preds goalie run and having its best player put into the box shortly after of any benefit to the Preds? Will Preds no longer get boarded (or boarded with less frequency) and will its goalies no longer get run (or run with less frequency)?

I'm not sure you can say definitively that standing up for your teammates in that situation outweighs the very obvious negative of heading to the box. It's the only quasi-contact sport where this happens and I do wonder if its actually counter-productive. If you knew you could run the goalie and draw a penalty that boxes the opponent's best player for 2 minutes, what is the downside again? A face wash? A stern look? Some gloved punches?

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10-19-2011, 08:23 AM
  #38
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Trotz was asked about Bergfors' lack of playing time, this morning.

Basically said, paraphrasing-

- Came from a different system, trying to continue playing in that system,which is vastly different than "predators hockey"

-Trying to be too cute\east-west in the neutral zone. Needs to play more north-south. Not fast enough to recover from the inevitable turnovers.

-has a lot of skill and likes to shoot, but will never get a chance to show that off if his line never establishes itself in the offensive zone.

-played 9 minutes and was a minus two. That's not a good sign.

He concluded by saying he'll get another chance tomorrow against Vancouver, so he will be in the lineup.

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10-19-2011, 09:09 AM
  #39
Roman Yoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Trotz was asked about Bergfors' lack of playing time, this morning.

Basically said, paraphrasing-

- Came from a different system, trying to continue playing in that system,which is vastly different than "predators hockey"

-Trying to be too cute\east-west in the neutral zone. Needs to play more north-south. Not fast enough to recover from the inevitable turnovers.

-has a lot of skill and likes to shoot, but will never get a chance to show that off if his line never establishes itself in the offensive zone.

-played 9 minutes and was a minus two. That's not a good sign.

He concluded by saying he'll get another chance tomorrow against Vancouver, so he will be in the lineup.
That's good news, I look forward to seeing him. Guess that means Erat and Fisher aren't ready to go yet. Any word on Cube?

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10-19-2011, 10:04 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Why is there a need for Weber to stand up for anyone. Why is having the Preds goalie run and having its best player put into the box shortly after of any benefit to the Preds? Will Preds no longer get boarded (or boarded with less frequency) and will its goalies no longer get run (or run with less frequency)?

I'm not sure you can say definitively that standing up for your teammates in that situation outweighs the very obvious negative of heading to the box. It's the only quasi-contact sport where this happens and I do wonder if its actually counter-productive. If you knew you could run the goalie and draw a penalty that boxes the opponent's best player for 2 minutes, what is the downside again? A face wash? A stern look? Some gloved punches?
lol, so you think just letting someone run our goalie is ok?

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Old
10-19-2011, 10:52 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
lol, so you think just letting someone run our goalie is ok?
What Smokey is saying is, while it's nice to have someone stick up for you, if the outcome of that "standing up" is yet another negative then what really is the benefit beyond a warm-fuzzy feeling? "Letting" people run the goalie is not ok, but sending the captain and arguably the best skater on the team to the box is not ok either nor does it stop the goalie from having gotten run in the first place (meaning no one "let" the goalie get run because they didn't start a scrum... they didn't stop it from happening at all). If the player who did the running is going to get his own penalty but Weber takes a matching then the team just lost a huge shot on the PP, and has to play 4-on-4 hockey. Toughness is fun, but the after-the-whistle stuff serves no major purpose. Toughness between the whistles is much better. Along the boards. In the corners. In front of the net. Hitting the other team. Those things help the team. Face washes and high cross checks and gloved punches don't do as much to deter the other team. If anything, those things just create more animosity that is likely to lead to more of the after-the-whistle stuff which is likely to lead to more penalties or ejections and possibly even suspensions with the way things are going early on.

If Rinne gets run, Weber stands up for Pekka by plastering the guy into the boards and then punching him in the face, and then Weber gets a game or two suspension from it is it still worth it? Weber has shown that he doesn't handle his emotions too well after a certain point (last year's punch on Tyutin is a clear example). I'd rather see him with his head in the game for a few games in a row than see him attacking people because Pekka got knocked down or Suter got boarded. Even if one of the players got hurt. Being a tough guy doesn't miraculously heal them, and it doesn't put up a shield to protect the "victim" from future hits. What it does is it allows the other team's coaching staff to scout that type of play, and then they can give their players the green light to get under some skin.

If you are a coach of another team and Weber keeps taking penalties standing up for his teammmates, do you tell your players to be careful lest they be bullied by Weber or do you tell them to take liberties to try to get him off of the ice? I do the latter...

This isn't a street gang. They don't have to send a message every time they feel wronged in order to survive. If a message needs to be sent we have players who can do that without risking Weber's TOI or health.

Anyway, this thread is about Bergfors. Looks like he will get another chance on Thursday. Kesler will be back. Vancouver has a solid defense, and Luongo is always a risk of being pretty good. I'm not so sure this is the best possible position for him to succeed, but he had better show something. Even if it's just playing a little D. Otherwise, he is gone.


Last edited by TMI: 10-19-2011 at 10:59 AM.
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Old
10-19-2011, 05:34 PM
  #42
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If Rinne gets hurt from getting run is that worth it? I'd rather lose Weber for two games to a suspension than to lose Rinne long term due to injury. The only reason Weber took that penalty is he was the first guy there. If Suter was there, it would've been Suter. If it were Klein, it would've been him going to the box. You stand up for your teammates. It's the code. If you don't, then there's issues in the locker room. What we see is a guy going to the box. What we don't see is if Weber doesn't do anything, Rinne yelling at the captain in the locker room. You know have your captain backing up your goalie. Everyone else falls in line. It's not always about what happens on the ice all the time.

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10-19-2011, 10:44 PM
  #43
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Hornqvist says hi, no one stands up for me.

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10-20-2011, 08:41 AM
  #44
triggrman
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
What Smokey is saying is, while it's nice to have someone stick up for you, if the outcome of that "standing up" is yet another negative then what really is the benefit beyond a warm-fuzzy feeling? "Letting" people run the goalie is not ok, but sending the captain and arguably the best skater on the team to the box is not ok either nor does it stop the goalie from having gotten run in the first place (meaning no one "let" the goalie get run because they didn't start a scrum... they didn't stop it from happening at all). If the player who did the running is going to get his own penalty but Weber takes a matching then the team just lost a huge shot on the PP, and has to play 4-on-4 hockey. Toughness is fun, but the after-the-whistle stuff serves no major purpose. Toughness between the whistles is much better. Along the boards. In the corners. In front of the net. Hitting the other team. Those things help the team. Face washes and high cross checks and gloved punches don't do as much to deter the other team. If anything, those things just create more animosity that is likely to lead to more of the after-the-whistle stuff which is likely to lead to more penalties or ejections and possibly even suspensions with the way things are going early on.

If Rinne gets run, Weber stands up for Pekka by plastering the guy into the boards and then punching him in the face, and then Weber gets a game or two suspension from it is it still worth it? Weber has shown that he doesn't handle his emotions too well after a certain point (last year's punch on Tyutin is a clear example). I'd rather see him with his head in the game for a few games in a row than see him attacking people because Pekka got knocked down or Suter got boarded. Even if one of the players got hurt. Being a tough guy doesn't miraculously heal them, and it doesn't put up a shield to protect the "victim" from future hits. What it does is it allows the other team's coaching staff to scout that type of play, and then they can give their players the green light to get under some skin.

If you are a coach of another team and Weber keeps taking penalties standing up for his teammmates, do you tell your players to be careful lest they be bullied by Weber or do you tell them to take liberties to try to get him off of the ice? I do the latter...

This isn't a street gang. They don't have to send a message every time they feel wronged in order to survive. If a message needs to be sent we have players who can do that without risking Weber's TOI or health.
Curious Third, but the bolded parts make me question whether you have ever played hockey? I'd guess no, but I'm not real sure. I don't think I know more about hockey than people who haven't played but the bolded parts tell me you never played defense with any coach I've had or for a team I've coached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If Rinne gets hurt from getting run is that worth it? I'd rather lose Weber for two games to a suspension than to lose Rinne long term due to injury. The only reason Weber took that penalty is he was the first guy there. If Suter was there, it would've been Suter. If it were Klein, it would've been him going to the box. You stand up for your teammates. It's the code. If you don't, then there's issues in the locker room. What we see is a guy going to the box. What we don't see is if Weber doesn't do anything, Rinne yelling at the captain in the locker room. You know have your captain backing up your goalie. Everyone else falls in line. It's not always about what happens on the ice all the time.
100% believe this. Goalies are in a bad spot most of the game and can easily get hurt especially from late charges to the net at or just after a whistle. The goal has his head down and is on his knees looking at a puck with both hands on the ice. Defensemen are taught from an early age, "no one touches your goalie" for this very reason. Weber wasn't sent out to send a message, he was already on the ice and responded the way his should had, you don't send those messages later, you send them right away or your goalie will be a target. Why do you think there some many scrums around the goalies after a whistle?

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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
Hornqvist says hi, no one stands up for me.
Hornqvist knows his role and knows he's going to pay a price to take a beating in front of the net, it's expected and comes with that role. Pekka's role is to stop pucks not to stop legs from sideswiping his head. It is the defenseman's job to protect the goal, period. Not just Weber but every defenseman.

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