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10/17/11 - 7:30PM EDT - Florida vs Tampa Bay

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Old
10-18-2011, 12:16 PM
  #251
Doctor Drej
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Well the first time he was out on the first unit was because Malone was in the box and Downie had the misconduct penalty. After that, I'm not sure.
Yup. Though, Ritola didn't do half bad out there. Wouldn't mind him seeing some time on the 2nd unit a little more to see what he can do. He definitely looks better than he did last year now that his ear problem is gone. Looks quicker and more into the game.

I totally didn't think of Roloson possibly still hurting from the collision against Montreal. That very well be the reason, as he was hurt glove side on that collision and last night especially he was pitiful on the glove side. Right now, I think it's best to give Garon the ball and let him see what he can do with it for a bit. Garon's played 3 excellent games and deserves a couple more starts anyhow. Garon is a little more stable right now than Roli and could help settle us down a bit and quit with the ****ing penalties. Maybe he'll even steal us a game or something. We just need a W, don't care how we get it, to get us back on track.

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10-18-2011, 12:25 PM
  #252
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Panther fan here: Right now I can not assure we are a good team or we are going to be in the playoffs, we as Panthers fan don't know our own team identity, you are basing your comments in past history, today we have 11 new players, that is pretty radical, but you underestimating every single player in our team, is not a sound argument, if your argument was to stand on its own, then should have beaten us soundly, based purely on the super talent you got on your team.
Having said that, you have so much talent in your team, that I do not see us repeating this, in fact, as you know, this does not happen often in the NHL.
I'm not basing my argument about your team on their past history; I'm basing it on the talent on your roster right now. While I recognize that your team has made significant improvements, it's far from having any top line talent or serious depth. Right now your second line features one top 6 forward in Fleischmann and two third liners in Kopecky and Upshall. They can both fill in on second line roles, but no playoff team would have them up there regularly. At best, they're 30-40 point players, thus third liners being forced to play second line minutes due to a lack of depth/serious talent. Versteeg's a player who couldn't handle top line minutes long-term in Toronto nor Philadelphia or Chicago, so to expect him to be the missing link on your top line all season is misguided in my opinion. To me, he falls into the same category as Fleischmann as a guy who will produce 45-55 points.

Weiss and Booth are good players, but that doesn't take away from my assessment that they aren't top line talent. Neither have hit more than 60 points in their career, and while points aren't always the best indicator of top line talent, the rest of their team isn't deep enough to sufficiently justify them being on the top line if they were to be a playoff bound team. I'm not saying you won't make the playoffs (crazier things have happened) but it'd take a great deal of chemistry and luck since I don't see the current talent being good enough.

I already recognized that our record historically vs. your team was horrendous; having superior talent also does not equate to beating a team either, especially in the regular season. I never said that was the case so the argument you made at the end makes no sense.

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10-18-2011, 12:46 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
I'm not basing my argument about your team on their past history; I'm basing it on the talent on your roster right now. While I recognize that your team has made significant improvements, it's far from having any top line talent or serious depth. Right now your second line features one top 6 forward in Fleischmann and two third liners in Kopecky and Upshall. They can both fill in on second line roles, but no playoff team would have them up there regularly. At best, they're 30-40 point players, thus third liners being forced to play second line minutes due to a lack of depth/serious talent. Versteeg's a player who couldn't handle top line minutes long-term in Toronto nor Philadelphia or Chicago, so to expect him to be the missing link on your top line all season is misguided in my opinion. To me, he falls into the same category as Fleischmann as a guy who will produce 45-55 points.

Weiss and Booth are good players, but that doesn't take away from my assessment that they aren't top line talent. Neither have hit more than 60 points in their career, and while points aren't always the best indicator of top line talent, the rest of their team isn't deep enough to sufficiently justify them being on the top line if they were to be a playoff bound team. I'm not saying you won't make the playoffs (crazier things have happened) but it'd take a great deal of chemistry and luck since I don't see the current talent being good enough.

I already recognized that our record historically vs. your team was horrendous; having superior talent also does not equate to beating a team either, especially in the regular season. I never said that was the case so the argument you made at the end makes no sense.
I will be the first one to tell you that we do not have ubber talent,
but what we do have is lots of 20 goal scorers and promising talent, and the only way we are going to get anywhere this year is doing it by committee, if you were to read a little about the panthers, you would know that currently many of these players are only a stop gap until many of our picks are ready for the NHL, so we do not make assumptions that we are going to be in the playoffs, all I hear in our board is: "It would be nice, if we make it"

I will also say, that those 2nd liners beat your team twice in a row, but I will also tell you that may not happen again, you also know that underestimating your opponent is not a good recipe for success, we should not be beating you like this in this convincing manner, just because of our talent and you should not be loosing in such manner, just because of your great talent. either way, as you see, I am still standing with the argument that we as Panthers, don't know what kind of team we have, we are as surprised as you are.

With all due respect, I will like to revisit this conversation with you, in like 20 games from now, then we will know, what we have, and your team will probably be on its way to the playoffs for sure, and many facts and stats will be at hand, instead of conjectures.

I enjoyed talking to you, and good luck, I am also a fan of any South Florida team.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:21 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Two4Fighting View Post
I will be the first one to tell you that we do not have ubber talent,
but what we do have is lots of 20 goal scorers and promising talent, and the only way we are going to get anywhere this year is doing it by committee, if you were to read a little about the panthers, you would know that currently many of these players are only a stop gap until many of our picks are ready for the NHL, so we do not make assumptions that we are going to be in the playoffs, all I hear in our board is: "It would be nice, if we make it"

I will also say, that those 2nd liners beat your team twice in a row, but I will also tell you that may not happen again, you also know that underestimating your opponent is not a good recipe for success, we should not be beating you like this in this convincing manner, just because of our talent and you should not be loosing in such manner, just because of your great talent. either way, as you see, I am still standing with the argument that we as Panthers, don't know what kind of team we have, we are as surprised as you are.

With all due respect, I will like to revisit this conversation with you, in like 20 games from now, then we will know, what we have, and your team will probably be on its way to the playoffs for sure, and many facts and stats will be at hand, instead of conjectures.

I enjoyed talking to you, and good luck, I am also a fan of any South Florida team.
What you're missing is that I'm not making an excuse for why we lost to you. What I'm saying is that "on paper"/what is common knowledge is that our team is deeper/more talented than yours. Good teams lose to ones worse all the time. If you revisit our all time record against each other, you guys have beat us 53 times, while we've only won 35. This isn't an indication of your team being better but that we don't play well against you for some reason, as you can see from the standings over the past 10 years.

I also don't see the many 20 goal scorers. I see four players who have done it in their careers in Booth, Fleischmann (who's done it once), Versteeg and Weiss. Scoring by committee is certainly respectable, and not all good teams need top end talent, but I also don't see the talent beyond the guys I've mentioned here and in earlier posts.

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Old
10-18-2011, 02:01 PM
  #255
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If you're wondering how the Lightning gave up five power-play goals in a single game, here's one telling stat: They lost 12 of 16 short-handed faceoffs. When you consistently lose possession of the puck off the draw in the defensive zone, you're putting yourself in danger.

Tampa's penalty-killing crew also has been stretched due to the club's undisciplined play in the early part of the season. Through six games, the Lightning have been short-handed a League-high 36 times. By comparison, the Penguins, who have played one more game, have skated down a man 14 fewer times.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=596444

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Old
10-18-2011, 05:06 PM
  #256
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I'm pretty sure the Panthers are not going to be scoring 5 PP goals again anytime soon. Our PK was atrocious and couple that with about 3 weak goals on Roloson and you have Florida looking pretty tough on the PP which is just not true.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:26 PM
  #257
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I think you guys aren't giving enough respect to the Panthers - they're a much improved team and if we keep playing like ****, we'll find ourselves chasing those guys for a playoff spot.

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10-18-2011, 06:29 PM
  #258
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They are improved but they lucked out facing our weak team twice in a row.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:30 PM
  #259
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No, they abused us in the faceoff circle, abused two defenseman that can be easy targets (MAB - turnovers, Kubina - speed) and moved the puck around extremely well on the powerplay. Want to complain about something? Complain about us being positionally bad and undisciplined.

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10-18-2011, 07:50 PM
  #260
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Take it easy there, tiger. The turds suck - end of story.

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10-18-2011, 08:09 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
No, they abused us in the faceoff circle, abused two defenseman that can be easy targets (MAB - turnovers, Kubina - speed) and moved the puck around extremely well on the powerplay. Want to complain about something? Complain about us being positionally bad and undisciplined.
That's true but definitely an understatement. Having witnessed that in person it was all our group could do to remain for the end of the game. Made us ask something among ourselves.... DID THE PENALTY BOX FOR THE LIGHTNING EVER GET COOL? Totally disgusting we're in the box so ****ing much. And from our vantage point we deserved every one of them. And when did we go from 100% penalty kill to 0% (or damn close to it)?

If we had to sum that game up in one word.... ummm.... "pathetic"?

And no lightning in the ceiling or on the ice!!! Damn!!! We were waiting for that to fire up all night. Total letdown on the ice and above the ice

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Old
10-18-2011, 08:37 PM
  #262
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The Panthers wouldn't have won that game if Roloson hadn't been playing like he was injured, which just begs the question.

I didn't read that he wasn't at practice today, and if it were my decision, he wouldn't have been. He needs that **** checked out now. Not in a week.

Amusingly, the known fake Dwayne Roloson twitter account is followed by the real Bruno Gervais.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-18-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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10-18-2011, 08:45 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
The Panthers wouldn't have won that game if Roloson hadn't been playing like he was injured, which just begs the question.

I didn't read that he wasn't at practice today, and if it were my decision, he wouldn't have been. He needs that **** checked out now. Not in a week.

Amusingly, the known fake Dwayne Roloson twitter account is followed by the real Bruno Gervais.
After listening to sports radio all day it seems we are not the only ones that feel Rolli isnt getting the job done. I am part of the crew that thinks we give Garon a shot. See how it goes. I think it sucks that we are already having goal-tending issues; although they are definitely magnified due to us taking a period worth of penalties per game.

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10-18-2011, 08:53 PM
  #264
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The Panthers wouldn't have won that game if Roloson hadn't been playing like he was injured, which just begs the question.
HUH? Roli definitely had an off game but geeze, we couldn't muster two passes without giving the puck to a Panther, bouncing off our sticks or just flat out giving it away. And any time we did one of those blind plays to pass the puck to where a Bolt "should" be, no one was there and the Panthers just snagged the puck and attacked. They weaved thru us like my grandma's cross stitching.

Just about every time the Panthers had the puck in their end they set up a play, brought the puck down the ice and blasted a few shots at Roli. Then when we'd get the puck we'd battle and battle and battle and struggle and battle JUST TO GET THE PUCK ACROSS OUR OWN BLUE LINE! About the only way we could get the puck in their end was to do the dump-and-run and almost every time the Panthers just snagged the puck and attacked us again. And we just constantly kept the penalty box seat warm which just multiplied our plight.

We played like we had several dozen players who had never been on the ice with each other and we'd just snag any random five and toss them on the ice together. Nothing clicked, seriously. Nothing. Bugsy's fight was about the best action the Lightning brought last night.

Home opener. New organ and cool sounds. Great lighting (no lightning shooting around the ceiling). Neat party deck and new bars. Everything was in place EXCEPT the team. Not sure what is going on but the team that we saw on the ice against the Canes hasn't been around much lately.

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10-18-2011, 09:19 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
The Panthers wouldn't have won that game if Roloson hadn't been playing like he was injured, which just begs the question.

I didn't read that he wasn't at practice today, and if it were my decision, he wouldn't have been. He needs that **** checked out now. Not in a week.
Doesn't sound like he's injured. Just going to work things out in practice.

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10-18-2011, 10:17 PM
  #266
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Diving more than the Hurricanes?... I didn't think that was humanly possible...

Watching a Hurricanes line change is like watching a school of porpoise....

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10-19-2011, 12:20 AM
  #267
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Roloson definitely needs to work on his glove. At least two goals against were short side glove side. Another one was after a lateral pass and short side again. All three times he didn't even raise his catching arm, just tried to move his body in front of the shot, wtf.

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10-19-2011, 10:21 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Roloson definitely needs to work on his glove. At least two goals against were short side glove side. Another one was after a lateral pass and short side again. All three times he didn't even raise his catching arm, just tried to move his body in front of the shot, wtf.
This is what's telling me there's more going on to this story than we're being told.

He's not doing the fundamental motion. It's not that he's not seeing it, or he wouldn't be trying to move his body in front of it. Even if he stops it like that, it's going to result in a rebound, and he's not squared up for that.

There's also a thinking component involved in what he's doing, and goalies aren't supposed to think.

There's a possibility that this is a smoke screen.

I don't know when the idea that Roloson may be injured occurred to the team's management, or if it's even made it's way to them. I'd be shocked if it hasn't yet.


What keeping the talk about the players sucking does is put the onus on them to stop sucking. If the discussion becomes about Roli being injured or not during those games, it gives them an excuse for having sucked, when they legitimately did suck.

If the players doesn't know about Roli's situation (and I can't help but think a few of them have maybe discussed it), then keeping the onus on the skaters to perform just becomes that much more important if Garon has to take on the role. Rather than resigning themselves to their goaltender's fate.

Yesterday and today are not gamedays, and so there's not a whole lot of reason to be talking about it, or make moves as if it were. (As frustrating as that is for me.)

If he's not injured, well then, carry on, but I'm very certain Roli is not playing at 100%.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-19-2011 at 05:37 PM.
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Old
10-19-2011, 10:45 AM
  #269
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Let's just go with Garon for a while. He looked sharp so far.

Btw, I thought 'onus' was Shanaban's favorite word, not yours, FP!

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10-19-2011, 11:29 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Let's just go with Garon for a while. He looked sharp so far.

Btw, I thought 'onus' was Shanaban's favorite word, not yours, FP!
It is, (my favorite word is 'defenestrate') but it's appropriate here in quickly getting the point across.

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