HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

How would you feel about Tanking?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-19-2011, 12:48 PM
  #76
Melvin Udall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 500
How would you feel about Tanking?


IMHO, Habs should have done it years ago.

The patch-job rebuild has not worked for the Habs for the best part of the past 30 years - their biggest problem remains scoring - if the PP is cold this team has to practically get a shutout to win!

Although a total rebuild is not a guarantee of success - we know that the current approach has produced only mediocre results and Gauthier's track record as a NHL GM does not suggest that the HAB'S current condition is likely to improve anytime soon.



Melvin Udall is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 12:51 PM
  #77
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by missthenet View Post
gomez elevate his play in the playoffs? check his stats.
Just did.

Says 59 points in his last 63 since the lockout.

Oops.

Did that just totally destroy your inane, baseless claim?

Really sorry about that.

Coldplay is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 01:22 PM
  #78
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Just did.

Says 59 points in his last 63 since the lockout.

Oops.

Did that just totally destroy your inane, baseless claim?

Really sorry about that.
2 goals in 26 games.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:27 PM
  #79
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,380
vCash: 500
Against tanking. Plus, there are always busts picked in the top 5 and gems later on. No point to it really we can build if we 1. draft well and 2. manage young assets better.

JLP is online now  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:31 PM
  #80
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
2 goals in 26 games.
He's right tho. Gomez goes from being ''atrocious'' to merely ''way below average'' in the playoffs. He can even be ''mediocre'' at times! I would say it means he does elevate his play

FlyingKostitsyn is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:34 PM
  #81
JV
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: na
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
I'm all for it.

But even if we don't do it, I won't be watching anyway. Because this is what I'd see:

W, L, L, L, W, W, L, W, L, OTL, W, W, L, W, L, L, OTL, W, W, L, L, W, L, W, W, OTL, W, etc, etc,.

Who has time for that? Half the season = 130 hours of TV watching, minimum. After which, we'll be between 11th and 7th spot.

JV is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:38 PM
  #82
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
2 goals in 26 games.
All I see is nearly a point per game in the recent interval I posted.

Last I checked, points = goal was scored = offensive contribution.

But hey, let's ignore all that.

Coldplay is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:46 PM
  #83
Jmac1160*
Gomez-"Sorry Coach"
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
worst thread of the yr so far hands down. Who ever agrees with tanking is not a real fan and knows nothing about the habs

Jmac1160* is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:49 PM
  #84
gillyguzzler
Registered User
 
gillyguzzler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,748
vCash: 500
To throw away this season would be foolish because :

1 - the guys we'd want to trade away have huge contracts and wouldn't fetch us sufficient value.

2 - the guys we want to keep are the guys other teams would want.

It should have been done three years ago when we had all those impending UFAs that we didn't resign.

You can't tank and rebuild around Gomez.

gillyguzzler is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:51 PM
  #85
donghabs98
Moderator
 
donghabs98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,835
vCash: 50
markov and cammy are out
young defense

i didn't expect to win a lot of games

luck hasn't been on our said(look at last night)

if we can just play .500 till these guys come back i think we will be good

donghabs98 is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:52 PM
  #86
Jmac1160*
Gomez-"Sorry Coach"
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by donghabs98 View Post
markov and cammy are out
young defense

i didn't expect to win a lot of games

luck hasn't been on our said(look at last night)

if we can just play .500 till these guys come back i think we will be good
Thanks for putting things into prospective fellow Haligonian

Jmac1160* is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:52 PM
  #87
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Tanking to me is nothing more than a nice catch phrase to try and demean posters or fans who prefer a different direction, I don't think anyone truly wants to lose on purpose.

habsjunkie2* is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:56 PM
  #88
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
All I see is nearly a point per game in the recent interval I posted.

Last I checked, points = goal was scored = offensive contribution.

But hey, let's ignore all that.
That's fine.

But let's also not ignore the fact that the guy only has 2 goals in 26 playoff games.

Moreover, let's not ignore the fact that since Feb of 2011 Ryan McD has more goals and almost the same amount of points as Scott Gomez despite being a rookie and playing defense. Let's not ignore the fact that he's outscored and outpointed Gomez so far this year. Let's also not ignore the fact that we got completely hosed on that trade or that Gomez never led us anywhere. Let's not ignore the fact that Halak is the sole reason we made it past Washington or into the playoffs at all in the first place. Please... let's not ignore this.

I know you like the guy and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being 'mean' but that move made no sense at all.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 02:57 PM
  #89
Bloumeister
Live And Let Dye
 
Bloumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: @Bloumeister
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
2 goals in 26 games.
+ 16 passes, which ain't bad.

(after endless threads about Gomez' legendary shot, don't expect much scoring from him)

But...

-12 in 26 games with the Habs? When you have 18 pts in the bank?

-6 in 7 games last year (4 pts)? Especially since GF/GA were even against the Bruins (17 vs 17)?

Ouch.

Bloumeister is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 03:44 PM
  #90
Toastman
Registered User
 
Toastman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,592
vCash: 500
Thanks, but no TANKS (hows that for a pun) ?


Nope, I love this team. Remember what we did to Washington and Pittsburgh without Markov?
Then we played amazing against Boston last season. Again without Markov. My point is that our team has incredible heart and fire, and we can still be a playoff competitor regardless of how our season is starting.
give it time boys

Toastman is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 04:03 PM
  #91
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmym007 View Post
Am I the only one who's happier and happier everytime I see habs lose? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard habs fan and would love more than seeing a cup in mtl in my lifetime, but when I see 2012 draft prospects and habs losing record, I can't help but to see a much brighter future.

We need change, defensive system is boring and clearly isn't working with the defense we have (most of them being offensive dmen except for Gill and Gorges). We need an offensive coach and size, but it doesn't cut it with the guys we have. We'll have to change the team all over and rebuild from the start. PG doesn't want that I'm sure, but I believe that we'll never win a cup with this team. Rebuilding starts with one franchise player and building around him. We thought about Price, hence why we built a defensive system around him. It worked not too bad, but still not good enough. We need a star that can score, because right now, when we're getting scored on, we have nobody that can tie the game up. When we happen to have the lead, we defend it. This whole mentality has to change, too. When we have to rely on guys like pacioretty when we're down by a goal, that's a good sign you need quality goal scorers.

Habs should stop drafting defensemen in the first round from now on. We've got enough now, it keeps us from drafting potential top 6 forwards.

The question I'd like to ask you guys is, how would you feel if habs plan was to tank this year? Not saying it was even mentionned by anybody in the habs organisation, but would you mind to "fail for nail" for the entire season knowing what the upcoming years would look like? Would you rather trade for a first overall pick (We have nothing close to being worth of a 1st overall in 2012 though).

I saw a lot of "habs and sens will fight for the 1st overall pick this year" or "Coyotes and Montreal won't have more than 25 wins this season" comments. It's the first time I see comments underrating the habs at that point, even if the authors of these quotes are nowhere near credible, people around the league seem to think we're going to finish in the bottom 5. I don't particularly share their opinions, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about that.

This is not a panic thread or a ranting on the habs current performance. It's an personnal review and personnal questions I've asked myself, please discuss without flaming and judging. Thank you.
This is foolish. The surest way to get high draft picks without throwing games is to draft badly year after year while habitually re-signing players like Hal Gill. Gill is the exception to what the Habs have been doing. They cut loose Kovalev, Koivu, Hamrlik, Bégin, Huet, Halpern, and Metropolit. The inly worthwhile veteran signing was arkov.

Teufelsdreck is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 04:44 PM
  #92
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
worst thread of the yr so far hands down.
Don't worry, the thread will go away once we win two in a row and be replaced by something called "Feels like '93." Then it will come back with a vengeance after our next two game losing streak. It's the nature of the beast here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Who ever agrees with tanking
You mean rebuilding right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
is not a real fan
Right... because only a real fan wants the club to build mediocre teams that aren't good enough to win cups right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
and knows nothing about the habs
Well, we know enough that we've been avoiding any kind of true rebuild for almost two decades and we've been treading water ever since.

We've watched as other clubs have traded for younger players, picks and prospects and built through the draft to assemble contenders and champions as we've sat on the sidelines without superstars or sniffing a cup appearance.

We know that our only top five pick in the last quarter century (via a one time ever league wide lottery) also happens to be our best player and who we pin all of our hopes on to get us into the playoffs. We also know that our best forward prospect was traded for in a rebuilding move that we'd like to see more of. We've also watched as we ditched a great prospect for an overpaid underperforming soft center who isn't going to lead us anywhere.

We also know that the club hasn't shown any real kind of desire to build a cup winning club through their actions because clubs that want to win don't go out and sign small mediocre players to build their core around. We know that the fan base seems to be okay with 8th place finishes and will defend many moves no matter how bad they are for our future.

I think we know the team better than you do.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 04:47 PM
  #93
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Don't worry, the thread will go away once we win two in a row and be replaced by something called "Feels like '93." Then it will come back with a vengeance after our next two game losing streak. It's the nature of the beast here.

You mean rebuilding right?

Right... because only a real fan wants the club to build mediocre teams that aren't good enough to win cups right?

Well, we know enough that we've been avoiding any kind of true rebuild for almost two decades and we've been treading water ever since.

We've watched as other clubs have traded for younger players, picks and prospects and built through the draft to assemble contenders and champions as we've sat on the sidelines without superstars or sniffing a cup appearance.

We know that our only top five pick in the last quarter century (via a one time ever league wide lottery) also happens to be our best player and who we pin all of our hopes on to get us into the playoffs. We also know that our best forward prospect was traded for in a rebuilding move that we'd like to see more of. We've also watched as we ditched a great prospect for an overpaid underperforming soft center who isn't going to lead us anywhere.

We also know that the club hasn't shown any real kind of desire to build a cup winning club through their actions because clubs that want to win don't go out and sign small mediocre players to build their core around. We know that the fan base seems to be okay with 8th place finishes and will defend many moves no matter how bad they are for our future.

I think we know the team better than you do.
And here we go...

Andy is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 04:52 PM
  #94
LeMAD
Registered User
 
LeMAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,364
vCash: 500
You may tank as much as you want, it's impossible the build a dominant team nowadays. The top-10 teams in the league are all on the same level, and we're part of this group.

We are a contender, why the **** would we tank?

LeMAD is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 04:59 PM
  #95
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
You may tank as much as you want, it's impossible the build a dominant team nowadays. The top-10 teams in the league are all on the same level, and we're part of this group.

We are a contender, why the **** would we tank?
We are one piece away from being a contender. The only reason as to why we would tank (and, since the Habs are supposed to ice a playoff team, better start now if we were to tank because tanking attempts that start near the trade deadline only work if a team is already bottom-5 by then) is to get that one piece that would allow us to be contenders 2-3 years down the road.

The only way a playoff team would be successfully tanking is if it started in October or early November.

Mathradio is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 05:09 PM
  #96
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Why the hell would you WANT the Habs to tank? That would mean a full year of sucking just to get a player who could POSSIBLY be very successful and even then we have to wait three years for that player to develop, so that's almost four years of sucking because you think tanking is a valid option. Not only that, but we actually have A GOOD TEAM which has been improving every year, going from 8th place to 6th place last year, including a promising young core which would pretty much go to waste if we tanked for years just for the possibility of getting ONE good player...


It is the most ridiculous proposal you can make as a fan of a hockey team. If you think it's a good idea, just please do us all a favor and stop being a fan of this team. If the Montreal Canadiens, the most historic and successful franchise in hockey history EVER decided to tank, it would be a disgrace. I hope it never comes to that.

JohnLennon is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 05:19 PM
  #97
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Why the hell would you WANT the Habs to tank? That would mean a full year of sucking just to get a player who could POSSIBLY be very successful and even then we have to wait three years for that player to develop, so that's almost four years of sucking because you think tanking is a valid option. Not only that, but we actually have A GOOD TEAM which has been improving every year, going from 8th place to 6th place last year, including a promising young core which would pretty much go to waste if we tanked for years just for the possibility of getting ONE good player...


It is the most ridiculous proposal you can make as a fan of a hockey team. If you think it's a good idea, just please do us all a favor and stop being a fan of this team. If the Montreal Canadiens, the most historic and successful franchise in hockey history EVER decided to tank, it would be a disgrace. I hope it never comes to that.
No offense but most top 3 picks are already NHL ready. Yakupov and Grigorenko would be immediate results, not three years of waiting. Besides plenty of teams have tanked one year and become fine after, especially when hit with injury. Like Philly in 2007.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 05:23 PM
  #98
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
No offense but most top 3 picks are already NHL ready. Yakupov and Grigorenko would be immediate results, not three years of waiting. Besides plenty of teams have tanked one year and become fine after, especially when hit with injury. Like Philly in 2007.
Sometimes a top-3 can be NHL ready, sometimes they can't be. Just because it seems to be a theme lately it does not mean that will always be the case. We don't even know if a player in the top 3 will even pan out for us in the NHL. We all know the horror stories.

It's a stupid risk and to even consider it is simply ludicrous. What has happened to Habs fans? We are the face of the league, the most storied franchise of hockey; we should always strive for excellence. Rooting for our team to lose so we could have a chance at a good player who isn't even guaranteed to make a difference is pathetic in my opinion.

JohnLennon is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 05:23 PM
  #99
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Why the hell would you WANT the Habs to tank? That would mean a full year of sucking just to get a player who could POSSIBLY be very successful and even then we have to wait three years for that player to develop, so that's almost four years of sucking because you think tanking is a valid option. Not only that, but we actually have A GOOD TEAM which has been improving every year, going from 8th place to 6th place last year, including a promising young core which would pretty much go to waste if we tanked for years just for the possibility of getting ONE good player...


It is the most ridiculous proposal you can make as a fan of a hockey team. If you think it's a good idea, just please do us all a favor and stop being a fan of this team. If the Montreal Canadiens, the most historic and successful franchise in hockey history EVER decided to tank, it would be a disgrace. I hope it never comes to that.
I'm not convinced we ice a good team now. I'll hold my final decision until both Cammalleri and Markov are back into play. If we still suck with Cammalleri and Markov, then I'd really say that tanking is better than any other option out there, no matter how much of a disgrace we would be. If we happen to win a Cup after a season's worth of tanking (and without having to trade anyone away except maybe Gomez, Gill or Spacek) we will be no different from Chicago, the last O6 team that successfully tanked on purpose. But, with the parity that currently prevails in the league, we really need not do that much to tank.

One of the Habs legends from the 1970s was obtained not through a tanking attempt of our own but with a first-rounder acquired from a team that sucked in our stead.

Mathradio is offline  
Old
10-19-2011, 05:31 PM
  #100
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
I'm not convinced we ice a good team now. I'll hold my final decision until both Cammalleri and Markov are back into play. If we still suck with Cammalleri and Markov, then I'd really say that tanking is better than any other option out there, no matter how much of a disgrace we would be. If we happen to win a Cup after a season's worth of tanking (and without having to trade anyone away except maybe Gomez, Gill or Spacek) we will be no different from Chicago, the last O6 team that successfully tanked on purpose. But, with the parity that currently prevails in the league, we really need not do that much to tank.

One of the Habs legends from the 1970s was obtained not through a tanking attempt of our own but with a first-rounder acquired from a team that sucked in our stead.
That's the thing: we haven't sucked. We dominated Buffalo. We dominated Winnipeg. We dominated the Leafs in the first period, but were very unlucky when it came to goal scoring and the Leafs capitalized, changing the momentum for the rest of the game. We played well against the Flames. It's simply a case of not getting the bounces.

Even if the Habs are doing terribly 20 games in, telling the team to tank is absolutely ridiculous. We would dramatically curb the development of all the young players we have in the league right now; pretty much making our team much worse off in the future. We would aim at getting a player who we aren't even sure would help our team. It is absolutely stupid to ruin where this team is headed just for ONE PLAYER and hope he can carry our team to victory.

I'm honestly surprised at how few people recognize how ridiculous it is.

JohnLennon is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.