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Rinaldo injures BOTH Doughty and Penner

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Old
10-18-2011, 07:41 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Incorrect. Powe in his last year at Princeton had 28 points in 34 games, and that's actually rather potent in college. He was working his way up the Phantoms line up as well before being recalled.

Rinaldo averaged 2:53 of ice time in two playoff games. Flyers lost 1 in overtime after they went down 3-0, and the other 7-3.

As far as the "obsession", I'm not the one creating threads upon threads about how great a 4-minute player is. You call it an obsession. I call it having higher standards as a paying customer.
Rinaldo in his first pro season scored half as many points in 16 less games than powe in the AHL, who was a second year player. Rinaldo also had 336 PIM. He's been told to clean up PIM count, is it insane to think that he actually has skill to score goals but never used it. Powe also put those points up in his fourth year of college

The management seem to think he has something, and other teams don't like him. Perfect fit I think.

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10-18-2011, 08:00 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Rinaldo in his first pro season scored half as many points in 16 less games than powe in the AHL, who was a second year player. Rinaldo also had 336 PIM. He's been told to clean up PIM count, is it insane to think that he actually has skill to score goals but never used it. Powe also put those points up in his fourth year of college

The management seem to think he has something, and other teams don't like him. Perfect fit I think.
If he had the skill to provide offense, don't you think juniors would be a good place to do it? I'm not talking about a dominant player, just one year where he was a reliable offensive threat for his team. Powe fits that criteria.

Powe earned a call up because he was a good defensive forward in his first full year in the AHL, and in the second he had 7 points in 8 games. Sometimes one good year in college is all it takes.

Dustin Penner (this is only coincidence that I'm bringing him back up) was just over 1/2 point per game in the one year he had in college, 5 years later he was a 29-goal scorer with the Ducks.

I have no problem with him earning his way up to the NHL, but he should be getting another, if not 2 more seasons. Being in the NHL after one year - a bad year - in the AHL, is insanity, and honestly it sends the message to prospects that not everyone will get a fair opportunity. He should still be in the AHL trying to establish a better overall game.

And I don't really care about the management thinking he has something, I can objectively disagree as I, and others, have before in the past and at times been proven right when the Flyers were wrong.

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10-18-2011, 09:29 PM
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It just gets boring real fast when you constantly ***** about him being in the line-up, anything he does, and anything he is about to do.

Rinaldo keeps other teams honest and he's damn good at what he brings. I don't understand the hate. He's not getting top 9 minutes, He's a fourth line pest. How exactly does that impact other rookies?

Rinaldo had a solid camp, and deserves his place.

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10-18-2011, 09:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It just gets boring real fast when you constantly ***** about him being in the line-up, anything he does, and anything he is about to do.

Rinaldo keeps other teams honest and he's damn good at what he brings. I don't understand the hate. He's not getting top 9 minutes, He's a fourth line pest. How exactly does that impact other rookies?

Rinaldo had a solid camp, and deserves his place.
Right, well, whatever. He does what he does fine, my issue he doesn't do enough of anything else to warrant a spot on an NHL roster. I've said my peace and stated a valid case multiple times on it in now multiple threads. Some people still have the impression that the best way to win games is the make as many people bleed as possible, and 35 years of watching other teams lift the Stanley Cup won't change that. You're supposed get the most out of their roster as possible, and that's not happening here, as it isn't with a handful of other players.

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10-19-2011, 08:23 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Right, well, whatever. He does what he does fine, my issue he doesn't do enough of anything else to warrant a spot on an NHL roster. I've said my peace and stated a valid case multiple times on it in now multiple threads. Some people still have the impression that the best way to win games is the make as many people bleed as possible, and 35 years of watching other teams lift the Stanley Cup won't change that. You're supposed get the most out of their roster as possible, and that's not happening here, as it isn't with a handful of other players.
I see and understand your perspective on trying to get the most out of the line up etc. Thats fine. But in that example, why don't we find more offensive defensemen and get rid of the stay at home studs around the league who don't "contribute" enough?

Contribution is not solely based on offensive prowess, but the filling of a role that the needs to be filled. Like it or not, NHL rosters have historically used a player who, like Rinaldo, would crash and bang, fight, keep others honest, and get under the skin of the opponent. It is this role which Rinaldo has so far filled fairly well.

Is there room in his game for improvement? Of course. Would we all be happy if he also contributed a few points along the way? Of course.

My main question is, why does it matter what a player puts up 5 years ago in junior when that isnt his game, that isnt what is being asked of him by the coaching staff? He earned his roster spot by filling a role in which the coaches and gm thought was necessary. If you don't like that, don't complain at him for not doing enough, complain at the coaches and gm for not demanding more of a 4th line 5 minute player. Every team has them.

He put up over 100 PIM's in each of his junior years and played under the likes of Dale Hunter, Dave Cameron and Marty Williamson. Those three coaches demand hard work, and you can bet alot of what he does was influenced by Dale Hunter.

He isnt a goal scorer, he isnt a play maker, he is banger. Why can't you accept that that is what he is? If you don't like that a 4th liner doesnt bring enough to the table, don't ***** at him, because that's not what he is, ***** at the coach for putting him in the line up.

And before you reply and claim I keep defending him etc, I Personally somewhat agree with you that it would be nice to get more out of him/a 4th line player. I believe the team possesses enough grit that we do not need a resident fighter/tough guy. But with that being said, I disagree with your rationale that a player earns NHL ice based on numbers put up in Junior, college etc.

The coaches asked something of the team in training camp and Rinaldo answered that request, thus he is on the team. And of all the guys on the Roster, I'd rather him be sitting for 5 after a fight then say Simmonds or Hartnell, or a D, who do bring more to the table.

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10-19-2011, 08:45 AM
  #56
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The coaches asked something of the team in training camp and Rinaldo answered that request, thus he is on the team. And of all the guys on the Roster, I'd rather him be sitting for 5 after a fight then say Simmonds or Hartnell, or a D, who do bring more to the table.[/QUOTE]


I agree with this statement 110%

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10-19-2011, 09:01 AM
  #57
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Like I said, I said my peace on it. Your questions to me can be answered by finding them in old threads. I'll just say it does matter, because it's mattered to every other player whose job is to play hockey.

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10-19-2011, 09:09 AM
  #58
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Like I said, I said my peace on it. Your questions to me can be answered by finding them in old threads. I'll just say it does matter, because it's mattered to every other player whose job is to play hockey.
I didnt realize the NHL was not a "What have you done for me lately" league in regards to prospects trying to make a team as opposed to a "well you put up big numbers in junior even though you suck now league"

Alex Daigle and Cory Locke say hi. Huge numbers in Juniors yet they are no where to be found on an NHL roster. Why? becuase their game didnt translate into an NHL game. Rinaldo was drafted based on what he did in junior, one would assume that the reason he is in the NHL is because what he was drafted for ahs translated to the NHL, whther or not you agree with the coaches decision to put him in is another question.

But stop belittling someone because he wasnt a junior star. last I checked this is the NHL, you earn your way into the league based on what you do to impress the coaches and staff, not how many points you put up in Junior or where you were drafted. Your notion that junior scoring prowess = effective 4th line player is hilarious.

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10-19-2011, 09:35 AM
  #59
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Rinaldo, Shelley Caught in Logjam of Forwards
http://nhlhotstove.com/rinaldo-shell...m-of-forwards/

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10-19-2011, 11:25 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
Your notion that junior scoring prowess = effective 4th line player is hilarious.
Simply possessing the tools to be an effective fourth line forward in the NHL would probably make you a respectable offensive threat in Junior hockey, scoring instincts aside. Perhaps Rinaldo could've been more of a scorer in Junior, perhaps not. At any rate he's here now and he doesn't have much to offer other than antiquated sideshow stuff. Let him have his 15 minutes, because I highly doubt he sticks.

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10-19-2011, 11:32 AM
  #61
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I didnt realize the NHL was not a "What have you done for me lately" league in regards to prospects trying to make a team as opposed to a "well you put up big numbers in junior even though you suck now league"

Alex Daigle and Cory Locke say hi. Huge numbers in Juniors yet they are no where to be found on an NHL roster. Why? becuase their game didnt translate into an NHL game. Rinaldo was drafted based on what he did in junior, one would assume that the reason he is in the NHL is because what he was drafted for ahs translated to the NHL, whther or not you agree with the coaches decision to put him in is another question.

But stop belittling someone because he wasnt a junior star. last I checked this is the NHL, you earn your way into the league based on what you do to impress the coaches and staff, not how many points you put up in Junior or where you were drafted. Your notion that junior scoring prowess = effective 4th line player is hilarious.
Rinaldo serves a purpose. However, that purpose has no importance to the overall success of the team. He is not an effective 4th liner. He is Riley Cote, but probably not as nice a guy.

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10-19-2011, 03:46 PM
  #62
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He put up 17 points in 22 games with the Knights in 08-09 despite his 89 PIM.

Is it really out of the question that Rinaldo could score 10-12 points per season? Bring out all of the junior/college stats you want, guys like Powe and Betts are going to be right near 15. None of the three are around due to their offense. Rinaldo hits like a freight train, agitates, fights, and is damn fast. Hell, he even has more points than Powe this year.

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10-19-2011, 03:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
He put up 17 points in 22 games with the Knights in 08-09 despite his 89 PIM.

Is it really out of the question that Rinaldo could score 10-12 points per season? Bring out all of the junior/college stats you want, guys like Powe and Betts are going to be right near 15. None of the three are around due to their offense. Rinaldo hits like a freight train, agitates, fights, and is damn fast. Hell, he even has more points than Powe this year.
You really want a player on the team that can hopefully score 10-12 points, while providing no defensive ability, and never playing on the PK?

He was a waste of a roster spot. He provides nothing that contributes to the overall success of the team. Its evidenced by his lack of ice time, and the fact that he would most likely be a healthy scratch during the playoffs.

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10-19-2011, 04:12 PM
  #64
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I think that Mike Richards said it pretty well when he said something to the effect that it's tough to play against a guy whi doesn't even know there is a puck on the ice. Sorry but Rinaldo is nothing more than another Carcillo and most likely one with even less actual hockey ability.


He hasn't "EARNED" the right to play in the NHL yet. Let him work his way throught the AHL and if he actually PROVES he's a real HOCKEY PLAYER and a potenitally capable NHL player THEN promote him to the Flyers.

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10-19-2011, 04:20 PM
  #65
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I think that Mike Richards said it pretty well when he said something to the effect that it's tough to play against a guy whi doesn't even know there is a puck on the ice. Sorry but Rinaldo is nothing more than another Carcillo and most likely one with even less actual hockey ability.


He hasn't "EARNED" the right to play in the NHL yet. Let him work his way throught the AHL and if he actually PROVES he's a real HOCKEY PLAYER and a potenitally capable NHL player THEN promote him to the Flyers.
He's not even Carcillo. Carcillo could play well enough, he was just crazy. Rinaldo hasn't shown he can be anymore than a faster Cote.

Carcillo also said something similar, last year I believe, to Colton Orr. Something along the lines of "why should I fight someone who plays 4 minutes a night?"

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10-19-2011, 05:04 PM
  #66
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You really want a player on the team that can hopefully score 10-12 points, while providing no defensive ability, and never playing on the PK?

He was a waste of a roster spot. He provides nothing that contributes to the overall success of the team. Its evidenced by his lack of ice time, and the fact that he would most likely be a healthy scratch during the playoffs.
The guy can fly and is one of the best hitters I've ever seen. Do you think the opposition enjoys playing against him? Drew Doughty is shaking his head no. But I'm sure they'd be much more worried about Blair Betts. How many PKers does a team need?

"Evidenced by the fact that he would most likely be a healthy scratch during the playoffs" ... umm, so your evidence is an opinion you made up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I think that Mike Richards said it pretty well when he said something to the effect that it's tough to play against a guy whi doesn't even know there is a puck on the ice. Sorry but Rinaldo is nothing more than another Carcillo and most likely one with even less actual hockey ability.


He hasn't "EARNED" the right to play in the NHL yet. Let him work his way throught the AHL and if he actually PROVES he's a real HOCKEY PLAYER and a potenitally capable NHL player THEN promote him to the Flyers.
His job is to get under the opponent's skin and hit people extremely hard. That's literally his role. He's done it fine.

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10-19-2011, 05:06 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
He put up 17 points in 22 games with the Knights in 08-09 despite his 89 PIM.

Is it really out of the question that Rinaldo could score 10-12 points per season? Bring out all of the junior/college stats you want, guys like Powe and Betts are going to be right near 15. None of the three are around due to their offense. Rinaldo hits like a freight train, agitates, fights, and is damn fast. Hell, he even has more points than Powe this year.
After 5 games last year, Jody Shelley had more points and Simon Gagne.

And 22 games is not a full season. It's a part of a season. It's almost one whole college season, it was his best portion of games, in his best season, but it was a portion of games, not a season.

Could he get 10-12 points? Sure he could. Guys get goals and points by accident via puck luck. Chris Tamer scored from center ice on Ron Hextall, but he didn't start running power plays. You're right, he's not here because of his offense, just like Betts and Powe were not. However, when your on the ice, playing hockey, the object of that is trying to score a goal (or assisting on one). You can try, and fail at scoring a goal, but that's what you're supposed to be doing. This organization seems to feel there are exceptions to this rule, when there has never been one before.

And everyone who said it is right, he has done as the coaches and team has asked for the most part. For that he will get pluses on his report card. He wasn't put in a position to blow this opportunity (as good coaches do with players). For that he is to be commended. However, it's also quite a low standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I didnt realize the NHL was not a "What have you done for me lately" league in regards to prospects trying to make a team as opposed to a "well you put up big numbers in junior even though you suck now league"

Alex Daigle and Cory Locke say hi. Huge numbers in Juniors yet they are no where to be found on an NHL roster. Why? becuase their game didnt translate into an NHL game. Rinaldo was drafted based on what he did in junior, one would assume that the reason he is in the NHL is because what he was drafted for ahs translated to the NHL, whther or not you agree with the coaches decision to put him in is another question.

But stop belittling someone because he wasnt a junior star. last I checked this is the NHL, you earn your way into the league based on what you do to impress the coaches and staff, not how many points you put up in Junior or where you were drafted. Your notion that junior scoring prowess = effective 4th line player is hilarious.
I'm not talking about huge offensive numbers, I'm talking about just one season where he was a capable offensive player. These types of grinders, get that one year because they've proven to be capable enough at both ends of the ice to warrant that ice time at least against that kind of competition.

And that's where your Alexandre Daigle point goes totally out the window. It's irrelevant.

I never once said being a high scorer in juniors means you're a bona fide NHL player. I said NOT being a reliable offensive contributor in juniors (or college) - for even just one season - means you DON'T become a bona fide NHL player. There is nothing that Rinaldo has done to suggest he would be the first. That doesn't mean he can't, or won't, nothing in this world is impossible, but I'm playing the percentages in making this point, and those say that it's highly unlikely.

I'll lay the challenge out once again: Show me a list of NHL forwards, who is not a straight goon, that has had a sustained NHL career with numbers as bad as he does pre-NHL (juniors, college), and it only has to be ONE year, not 2 , or 3, or 4, just one. I've read the number of people who have come here and posted here and have has more exposure that felt from the very start that this was always a bad idea, and believed them, and that have not been proven wrong to date. Until someone makes a compelling case using that information, there is no reason for anyone to believe that he is capable of being a sustained NHL player, even as a 4th liner, let alone make it to the NHL this fast. Now that he's in the AHL, he can be coached, improve his game, is awareness, his puck skills, and come back and be a decent grinder, this is possible. Hopefully he won't be back until that happens and then can establish himself as something more than a strict headhunter.

Like I said, this is not some unfounded theory that is dreamed up because of an agenda of a guy on a message board. It's not a "notion" that I came up with in my sleep. I'm not even saying that it is completely impossible. I'm saying there has yet to be evidence that it is. Just like I could walk outside tomorrow and my grass could be purple.

I'm only playing the percentages. You're taking Cliff Lee and putting him in the 3-hole after he hit a home run. I'm going off the basis of what every NHL organization has done over the last 10-15 years, probably 20, probably more. Some side with Holmgren in this respect, because he knows more than you do, since he is an NHL GM and therefore it is a fallacy to objectively disagree. Fine. I'm siding with the other 29 NHL GMs whose collective knowledge is greater.


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10-19-2011, 05:54 PM
  #68
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I like Rinaldo. I think it's important to have the little ball of hate in the lineup. He's a tremendous checker and he's a buzzsaw on the ice, just flying around all over the place. More important, when he's on the ice, he has the presence in which people need to be aware that he's on the ice.

His hit on Doughty was text book and what the game needs. It wasn't dirty at all and Doughty came through the center ice area not paying attention.

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10-19-2011, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I like Rinaldo. I think it's important to have the little ball of hate in the lineup. He's a tremendous checker and he's a buzzsaw on the ice, just flying around all over the place. More important, when he's on the ice, he has the presence in which people need to be aware that he's on the ice.

His hit on Doughty was text book and what the game needs. It wasn't dirty at all and Doughty came through the center ice area not paying attention.
He needs to work on his game in the defensive zone to be an NHL regular.

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10-19-2011, 05:58 PM
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He needs to work on his game in the defensive zone to be an NHL regular.
And that will come with working with Joe Patterson down in Adirondack. Remember, the previous coach let things run amok down in Adirondack that nobody made any significant gain in their games until that moron was fired and Patterson was brought in to right the ship. I think Patterson is the kind of coach who can help Rinaldo get the defensive part of the game down and turn him into a real effective checker.

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10-19-2011, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
And that will come with working with Joe Patterson down in Adirondack. Remember, the previous coach let things run amok down in Adirondack that nobody made any significant gain in their games until that moron was fired and Patterson was brought in to right the ship. I think Patterson is the kind of coach who can help Rinaldo get the defensive part of the game down and turn him into a real effective checker.
Agree.

I like Rinaldo's game. There are things he needs to get better at though. People act like he can't develop his game.

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10-19-2011, 07:37 PM
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The guy can fly and is one of the best hitters I've ever seen. Do you think the opposition enjoys playing against him? Drew Doughty is shaking his head no. But I'm sure they'd be much more worried about Blair Betts. How many PKers does a team need?

"Evidenced by the fact that he would most likely be a healthy scratch during the playoffs" ... umm, so your evidence is an opinion you made up?



His job is to get under the opponent's skin and hit people extremely hard. That's literally his role. He's done it fine.
I know, the opposition trembles for those whole 5 minutes he's out on the ice. Any moron can fly around the ice like a maniac and hit people, that's not talent and it is not hockey.

Do you really think the opposition cares about zac rinaldo? Do you care about playing against Orr? I sure as hell don't. He's out there for 5 minutes and takes a stupid penalty.

And no my evidence isn't an opinion, my evidence is that he plays less than 6 minutes a night, and those players don't play in the playoffs unless they absolutely have too. I'd much rather have Blair Betts play 13 minutes a night, than Rinaldo play 5.

Also, I understand his role. There are however, players that exist that do those things and still can play hockey at the NHL level.

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10-19-2011, 10:30 PM
  #73
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Why you all HEFF to hate the crazy Italian? I mean I think all the detractors are anti-italian..yeah that's it! I blame The Jersey Shore for this ethnic attack....

But seriously, I have my concerns with him but I also see some decent intangibles and potential..

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10-20-2011, 12:53 AM
  #74
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If any moron can hit people then why are there so many few good open ice hitters?

Why haven't we seen a hitter like Scott Stevens since he retired?

It actually does take skill to hit people. Anticipation and positioning.

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10-20-2011, 06:17 AM
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I know, the opposition trembles for those whole 5 minutes he's out on the ice. Any moron can fly around the ice like a maniac and hit people, that's not talent and it is not hockey.

Do you really think the opposition cares about zac rinaldo? Do you care about playing against Orr? I sure as hell don't. He's out there for 5 minutes and takes a stupid penalty.

And no my evidence isn't an opinion, my evidence is that he plays less than 6 minutes a night, and those players don't play in the playoffs unless they absolutely have too. I'd much rather have Blair Betts play 13 minutes a night, than Rinaldo play 5.

Also, I understand his role. There are however, players that exist that do those things and still can play hockey at the NHL level.
Yes, yes I do think the opposition cares about Zac Rinaldo. There's a difference between a big slow goon and someone who has the skating ability/technique to deliver devastating hits anywhere on the ice. Sure, anyone can attempt to play the body, but how many can hit like Rinaldo?

The refs have been in their early season whistle everything mode, which is turning games into a special team-off. Not going to get a ton of minutes in these type of contests. I think he's capable of taking regular 4th line shifts.

We'll see what happens. Obviously, he's back down for now. Pumped to see Schenn.

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