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Subban - Signs of a sophomore slump

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:39 PM
  #101
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Was at the Avs game. Saw firsthand "the mistake". Deeply disappointed, but I can tell you after that he played a very solid game. He keeps making mistakes that cost us (game 1 was bad, game 3 wasn't great) BUT he is in no way a worse player than last year. He just needs to cut out the "doing it all yourself" stuff. It's just an adjustment period and he's been raring to go since the season started. A little bit of guidance and internal calibration and you won't see him making the same mistakes.

He's the real deal.

BTW, haven't been reading HF that much about the subject, but I think Emelin is da bomb. He's got a long way to go, but i've seen so much great stuff from him. I think he'll be very useful to us.

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10-18-2011, 12:39 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I agree. He's young, he will make mistakes, it's only normal. Nothing to worry about and it's not a slump.

As far as him having the #1 role, I never thought he should take on that role. Last year, during the many Gill vs Hammer discussions, the main argument for keeping Hammer was that he could step in to fill a more important role effectively in case of injuries, whereas Gill would only be helpful on the PK. To me, this was our biggest mistake. I have no issues with re-sign Markov instead of Wiz, matter of fact, I'd have done the same, but Gill over Hammer? That was just retarded. I will never understand the logic behind this move. My guess is they felt Spacek could fill in Hammer's shoes, but that didn't work out too good so far.
Hammer would have helped PK a lot.
Unfortunately right now, I don't see anyone else that can be our number one guy. PK is it...

Wiz would've been great to have back too. Unfortunate that he went for the huge paycheck somewhere else but I guess it is what it is.

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Old
10-18-2011, 12:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Except he was playing great against Colorado until he started trying to be a one-man show. He screwed up really bad trying to be Bobby Orr, cost the team a goal, and played poorly for quite awhile after that.

He can do that all he wants when we are up 3-goals in a game or something. Or when he's NOT the last man back. If Gill (or whoever was on the ice with him) had of been behind him when he started that rush, I wouldn't have cared because he was trying to create something. Doing it with no one behind you though is suicide.
I agree but if there's someone who is able to do it it's Subban.
Still...there should ALWAYS be a dman behind Subban. Don't understand why any dman would be in front of Subban. Really don't understand that.

We could give crap all we want to Subban (he's still the only dman we have that has the capability to go coast to coast, but a dman has got to stay behind).
The coach could give crap to the dman who isn't staying behind Subban.

Subban, Weber, Diaz...they would all get the green light to move up themselves (here and there) IF they had a dman staying behind. No?

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10-18-2011, 08:58 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I agree but if there's someone who is able to do it it's Subban.
Still...there should ALWAYS be a dman behind Subban. Don't understand why any dman would be in front of Subban. Really don't understand that.

We could give crap all we want to Subban (he's still the only dman we have that has the capability to go coast to coast, but a dman has got to stay behind).
The coach could give crap to the dman who isn't staying behind Subban.

Subban, Weber, Diaz...they would all get the green light to move up themselves (here and there) IF they had a dman staying behind. No?
I would imagine they have the green light to make plays, but Subban needs to realize when he's going to try that there is no-one to cover for him. Green light means you can make the decision yourself but 4 out of 5 times, that better be the right decision or you're going to lose that green light.

I might be wrong, but wasn't the game tied when he did it too? No need for that.

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10-18-2011, 09:51 AM
  #105
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Lmao at people throwing Subban and Price (our only legitimate stars) under the bus.

Some habs fans are pukes.

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10-18-2011, 09:56 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I would imagine they have the green light to make plays, but Subban needs to realize when he's going to try that there is no-one to cover for him. Green light means you can make the decision yourself but 4 out of 5 times, that better be the right decision or you're going to lose that green light.

I might be wrong, but wasn't the game tied when he did it too? No need for that.
Yeah he has to make better decisions, it seems he has been making the wrong one frequently so far this year. His passing up the middle is a killer, I think there must have been probably 5 or 6 times so far hes done it and turned it over and 2 for sure turned into goals. Even on the PP he was brutal until they put weber on the point too.
He is showing up the refs a bit too which is worrisome because he will never get calls doing that ****. I was hoping he would progress some from last years shenanigans.

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Old
10-18-2011, 01:14 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
???

His an NHL player now. Its his first contract year, he has the potential to make so much money he could afford to be very human every single day for the rest of his life.

If you want to be the best you have to work for it.
I'm so worried...

Oh wait..



He also consistently trained with his brothers every week to help Jordan and Malcolm get ready for their season. The kid is a gym rat but he is allowed a day off here and there, especially when his days in the gym are 2 to 3 times a day.

If you need further confirmation:



Oh and yea..to show that Jordan trains at the same gym and that it works for him just like PK:



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Old
10-18-2011, 03:20 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Except he was playing great against Colorado until he started trying to be a one-man show. He screwed up really bad trying to be Bobby Orr, cost the team a goal, and played poorly for quite awhile after that.

He can do that all he wants when we are up 3-goals in a game or something. Or when he's NOT the last man back. If Gill (or whoever was on the ice with him) had of been behind him when he started that rush, I wouldn't have cared because he was trying to create something. Doing it with no one behind you though is suicide.
He makes that exact play (with no one back) once a game. Hence my argument that this may just be a timing issue. That's the first time I remember it backfiring.

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10-18-2011, 05:19 PM
  #109
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He makes that exact play (with no one back) once a game. Hence my argument that this may just be a timing issue. That's the first time I remember it backfiring.
Very good point, this is hardly the first time Subban has gone for one these rushes and not the first time he's done so with little to-no help behind him. It's just one of the first times or only time it's resulted in a direct give away and a goal against. That coupled with his poor play in 2 of the previous 3 games is blowing this out of proportions in my eyes. He's going to take risks, it's one of the reasons he's gotten this far and it's one of the reasons why he is so good.

In response to one the posts above on this page regarding passes up the middle that get intercepted, that happens every single game to most puck-moving defenseman on every team. Even "lord" Markov gets some of his passes through the neutral zone picked off. If anyone here actually follows the poster "Just thoughts" and his blog after every game, you'd see that PK's risk/reward has been solid this season and his grade is generally amongst the highest of the team and especially the defense corps.

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Old
10-19-2011, 05:46 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I would imagine they have the green light to make plays, but Subban needs to realize when he's going to try that there is no-one to cover for him. Green light means you can make the decision yourself but 4 out of 5 times, that better be the right decision or you're going to lose that green light.

I might be wrong, but wasn't the game tied when he did it too? No need for that.
There should always be someone behind Subban, no? (not defending Subban, but...).
If I'm subban's partner I'm always behind Subban since we all know Subban is capable of carrying it up like there's no tomorrow and tries it here and there (but of course some caution and proper timing should be used at times). I forget if the game was tied.

Anyways...I have faith in Subban and coach Martin does too since he's giving him 25min./game.

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10-19-2011, 06:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
There should always be someone behind Subban, no? (not defending Subban, but...).
If I'm subban's partner I'm always behind Subban since we all know Subban is capable of carrying it up like there's no tomorrow and tries it here and there (but of course some caution and proper timing should be used at times). I forget if the game was tied.

Anyways...I have faith in Subban and coach Martin does too since he's giving him 25min./game.
I always thought that as soon as a dman rushes either his partner drops back or a forward comes back behind him to cover for him. Also, the rushes seem to be starting in our d zone, why is he the last one back anyway, where is everyone else?

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Old
10-19-2011, 07:26 PM
  #112
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Subban has one good game this season around, the one game where only Gorges semi-sucked and we played in front of a hot Miller...

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10-19-2011, 09:54 PM
  #113
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I saw the Basketball footage. It looks like he has a belly (looks can be deceiving), but if you saw any of his offseason training videos you would know that he is in tremendous shape and is a physical phenom. There is a reason why he can skate like the wind and hit like a truck.
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
I'm so worried...

Oh wait..
Ok what ever you guys say. We will see how great PK will do by the end of the season.
If he ends up with 40 points i will be satisfied considering the amount of efforts he has put in his training this summer. But I was honestly expecting him to be a clutch player with at least 55-70 points playing 25 mins and a smarter game.

Maybe I was placing the bar too high?

Maybe I thought this was his contract year, maybe i thought this was a huge reason for him to give everything he had being 100% dedicated to hockey and only hockey, maybe I thought he had a greater potential...

Right now my impression is that he will finish with 30 points, he will play 25-30 mins but he wont be a danger offensively.
Any ways we will see, I might be wrong but I strongly DOUBT it.

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10-19-2011, 10:53 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
Ok what ever you guys say. We will see how great PK will do by the end of the season.
If he ends up with 40 points i will be satisfied considering the amount of efforts he has put in his training this summer. But I was honestly expecting him to be a clutch player with at least 55-70 points playing 25 mins and a smarter game.

Maybe I was placing the bar too high?

Maybe I thought this was his contract year, maybe i thought this was a huge reason for him to give everything he had being 100% dedicated to hockey and only hockey, maybe I thought he had a greater potential...

Right now my impression is that he will finish with 30 points, he will play 25-30 mins but he wont be a danger offensively.
Any ways we will see, I might be wrong but I strongly DOUBT it.
He is 22..you definitely set the bar too high.

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10-19-2011, 11:05 PM
  #115
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The fan reaction on our 5-game season so far is one that a rational person would make after half or 3/4 of a season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
There should always be someone behind Subban, no? (not defending Subban, but...).
If I'm subban's partner I'm always behind Subban since we all know Subban is capable of carrying it up like there's no tomorrow and tries it here and there (but of course some caution and proper timing should be used at times). I forget if the game was tied.

Anyways...I have faith in Subban and coach Martin does too since he's giving him 25min./game.
This is why I think Subban's best defensive partner in theory is Gorges. Gill and Spacek are too slow to cover for him, and Diaz and Emelin still hesitate with their decisions now and then. Weber is my second choice for reliability.

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Old
10-19-2011, 11:19 PM
  #116
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Subban is not the right type of dman for canadiens style of play.
Wonder what we could get in a trade for him

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10-19-2011, 11:54 PM
  #117
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Subban is not the right type of dman for canadiens style of play.
Wonder what we could get in a trade for him
What?

He is a strong two-way defender, is highly mobile, can rush the puck. What part of that doesn't fit the game style of the Habs?

OT- Is Jordan a Habs fan too?

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10-19-2011, 11:59 PM
  #118
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There are spots in the lineup that I have concerns about, but Subban is not one of them.

That is all.

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10-20-2011, 12:37 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
Ok what ever you guys say. We will see how great PK will do by the end of the season.
If he ends up with 40 points i will be satisfied considering the amount of efforts he has put in his training this summer. But I was honestly expecting him to be a clutch player with at least 55-70 points playing 25 mins and a smarter game.

Maybe I was placing the bar too high?

Maybe I thought this was his contract year, maybe i thought this was a huge reason for him to give everything he had being 100% dedicated to hockey and only hockey, maybe I thought he had a greater potential...

Right now my impression is that he will finish with 30 points, he will play 25-30 mins but he wont be a danger offensively.
Any ways we will see, I might be wrong but I strongly DOUBT it.
So all it took was five games to throw your expectations for the entire season off?


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Old
10-20-2011, 12:56 AM
  #120
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So all it took was five games to throw your expectations for the entire season off?

No..... I was talking about his over all training this summer. He could have worked more than what he did, Thats it. And its 5 regular season games + the pre-season ones. Thats about 10-12 games right there. I'm confident he will bounce back though but I dont think he will do better than his last year.

Btw and what is a prediction good for if it is done at the end of the season?


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Old
10-20-2011, 01:19 AM
  #121
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He is 22..you definitely set the bar too high.
Last time I checked Drew Doughty was 21 but that dint stopped LA to give him a 7 millions$/year contract deal? no?

Is it fair to assume that last year Drew Doughty and P.K. Subban in terms of talent and potential were considered by almost every one pretty equal with a small advantage to Doughty??

Finally is it fair to assume that with a fairly better season (~45-55 points) then his previous one P.K. would be looking at something in between 5.0 millions to 6.0 millions dollars per year?

I mean unless the kid lacks the potential, the bar was set at a realistic achievement.

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10-20-2011, 09:54 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
Last time I checked Drew Doughty was 21 but that dint stopped LA to give him a 7 millions$/year contract deal? no?

Is it fair to assume that last year Drew Doughty and P.K. Subban in terms of talent and potential were considered by almost every one pretty equal with a small advantage to Doughty??

Finally is it fair to assume that with a fairly better season (~45-55 points) then his previous one P.K. would be looking at something in between 5.0 millions to 6.0 millions dollars per year?

I mean unless the kid lacks the potential, the bar was set at a realistic achievement.
Considering Doughty was one of the best D-men on the Canadian Olympic team that won a gold medal. No, they were not close in talent with a slight edge to Doughty.

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10-20-2011, 11:02 AM
  #123
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No..... I was talking about his over all training this summer. He could have worked more than what he did, Thats it. And its 5 regular season games + the pre-season ones. Thats about 10-12 games right there. I'm confident he will bounce back though but I dont think he will do better than his last year.

Btw and what is a prediction good for if it is done at the end of the season?
What do you know about his offseason training? By all reports, Subban is one of the best-trained athletes in the league. Just because he took part in a few promotional events during the summer means squat. When you do two-a-days for a few weeks, you then get a few days off to let your body recuperate. It's completely normal and honestly, Subban deserves to have a little fun once in a while in the middle of all that training. You know, he's a human too, not a training machine whose sole goal is to meet a fan's unrealistic expectations.

If you want to doubt Subban, do it because of his iffy decision-making (which really hasn't been that bad) this season and not for something he's known to do well and often (training). That's really pushing the envelope right there.

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10-20-2011, 01:30 PM
  #124
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I love it when people bring up his offseason training and say he could've worked harder, as if they know even in the slightest what his offseason training was.

Seriously some people need to get their head out of their rears, you don't know Subban, you don't know his training regiment, you don't know how hard he did or didn't train so stop acting like you do know and that you know that's the reason he's been off this year. He might just be having a slow start and will make a fool of everyone in a few games, but of course 10 games from now if he's doing well the same bashers will jump ship and start fawning over him. Then next year we'll repeat the process as people will quickly forget how stupid it is to react so hastily over 5 games...

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10-20-2011, 04:09 PM
  #125
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Considering Doughty was one of the best D-men on the Canadian Olympic team that won a gold medal. No, they were not close in talent with a slight edge to Doughty.
He was one of the best...How do you know P.K. wouldnt have been one of the best as well? Was he there to prove him self?
when he got called up P.K. Played in the playoffs like a ****ing Superstar with 10 years experience againts Washington (btw the best team in the league at that time).

Now whats more impressive?

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