HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > The KHL
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Elitserien stars going to KHL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-28-2011, 03:05 AM
  #26
yunost
Registered User
 
yunost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 390
vCash: 500
I am not sure of the position I hold. Peter25 opened a can of bad worms, by bringing up the issue once again, even after I confronted DiesIrae and got back on topic. But then again, DiesIrae posted it knowing it would cause such thing.

I think we should all stop purely political discussion since that would mean were on the wrong website. All companies do have practices though, that could be examined. Politics and business are part of the KHL so if we FOCUS, we can have a normal discussion about the KHL


Clearly these oligarchs already have money, that they made it through unethical ways.
They should be put to justice, but probably never will. With that being said, is it wrong for them to invest in the KHL? Does doing wrong prevent you from doing right?

Either way, I am not sure how deep this issue runs.

Metallurg is funded by a corporation from Magnitogorsk and it is only natural that they give back to the community. Its like Molson owning the Canadiens.

im not going to list all teams(and probably couldn't), but you should point out which one is being run by mobsters-innocent until proven guilty as any normal person would agree.
General assumptions mean nothing. For example just because Omsk did some sleazy things(allegadly) with a minority of their foreign players contracts, does not make the club a corrupt organization used for money laundering of sex slavery.

For governments to fund KHL clubs such as AMUR may sound whack but one must examine more thoroughly. If one compares that to California sponsoring the Kings, indeed that sounds stupid and an irresponsible way of spending taxpayers money. But KHL clubs develop youth, provide equiptment and icetime, organize tournaments, have community involvement, and yes bring the community together all that with a NO PROFITABILITY and prices that all can afford. That is worth it. In Canada taxpayers money is used towards sports too in a way that is different, but ultimately comes to the same result for childhood sports.

What's the difference between Tim Hortons making Timbits hockey tournaments for kids, or Severstal funding a KHL team that has a junior team in MHL, and a bunch of other teams for kids and development. I think its a difference of mentality. One is not worse than the other, especially considering the soviet past and the way sports in Europe are. This is probably more suitable for Russia.

You can bring up that Severstal makes its money unethically, but I dont think that is related to the KHL. KHL does not knowingly or directly accept payment from criminal sources, and I think that the companies that do pay with unethical earned money are first committing a federal offense that should be dealt with by the Russian Federation or FSB or whatever...

The KHL is not some judicial intelligence organization that is going to investigate all earnings of the sponsors and deem them ethical or not. That is not their job- as long as those companies operate with no problems and are legal, I dont see how it is wrong for KHL to allow the payment of those salaries.

That is why I say that KHL is a good league. All payments are shown and are on the financial statements of the companies. Otherwise again, you should come up with proof that the KHL is knowingly participating in criminal activity.

I think the KHL is a top hockey organization second to only the NHL. Although im not sure I ever heard a good thing said about Bettman, and there are things that can be changed in the NHL too.

By the way, pride is a thing to discuss. To argue with the last post, im not sure how pride works when all your young talent ditches the country. Or when your league hockey level is so low that you stay up late to watch oversees games.

People should also not use double standards. That really makes them look stupid.
When Gazprom funds SKA, everyone is hating and saying there blowing cash, poaching players, are not good for hockey etc. With Medvedev being some sort of sick fanatic with a personal fantasy.
BUT when Gazprom sponsors the Champions League, all European leagues gladly participate and agree that it is good for hockey.

yunost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-28-2011, 11:39 AM
  #27
NMF78
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium
Country: Belgium
Posts: 549
vCash: 500
About the KHL not being a 'capitalist league'... well the big 4 American Leagues (NHL, NBA, NFL...) aren't capitalist either, salary caps, drafts where the weakest teams get to choose the best youth players... more socialist practices then capitalist

Look at European Football if you want capitalist sports leagues, rich teams buying best players etc

NMF78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 02:45 AM
  #28
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,382
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
Yunost, good points.
Your latest frase is especially good, lol, it reminds me how in the West some dictators who sit on a barrel of oil are dictators and shold be bombed, but other dictators, who don't sit on oil, well, who cares.

__________________
Алексей Черепанов навсегда в наших сердцах
Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 08:51 AM
  #29
Peter25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
wrong. no need to resort to personal insults. I am not a hateful person.
I know you post in Militaryphotos forums and you have shown your resentment towards Russia there more than here, but it has been evident here as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
still not nearly good enough. you know that.
Maybe not good enough, but still far better. The rising standard of living has been showing in demographics for example. The TFR has risen from 1,1 to 1,6 between 2000-2010 and the number of people moving annually out of Russia has decreased from 150,000 to 30,000 between 1999-2010. Let's take Latvia and compare the two: 12,000 people moved out from Latvia in 2010 which is about three times less than from Russia. But Latvia's population is only 3 million where Russia has 142 million people. TFR in Latvia is only 1,2.

What do you think Latvia should do to improve it's social and demographic situation which is worse than in Russia? Or do you only want to lecture Russia?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
agreed. it's important to give communities a sense of pride. but that doesn't mean it can't be done in a capitalist and ethical fashion. they exist in Switzerland, Sweden, NA, etc...
What is ethical in Russia must be decided by Russians themselves. Don't lecture them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
yes but it can be guaranteed that their acquisition of wealth was not democratic or capitalist. nothing was in Russia in the 90's.
They don't differ much from the American robber barons of the 19th century. What the oligarchs should and must do is to diversify their economic activies away from natural resources extradiction. If they refuse or can't do that then the state should interfere and force them to invest their money in Russian industries. Their ill-gained wealth should not be really theirs, but they should only control it as long as they know how to use it for the benefit of the country.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I feel that they shouldn't poach foreign players
Absolutely disagree. The KHL with 24 teams would be nothing without imports. Russian junior program is not strong enough to fill 24 teams with good players. The KHL must get all the quality players it can regardless of their nationality. This is why I would prefer the limit of foreigners to be set to six or seven instead of five. The talented Russians will always find a way to crack the lineups of KHL teams, if they indeed are talented enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
keep it a russian/latvian/belarussian/kazhak league. at least then the money will stay there.
Agree. The KHL should not expand beyound FSU borders.

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2011, 05:15 PM
  #30
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
I had to google that lol. that's not me. and the only post I found of that guy was a pan-slavist song haha. you are really trying hard to discredit me pyotr. Life in finland can't be that boring

obsenssive* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 06:18 AM
  #31
TheFatOne
Mr.Negativo
 
TheFatOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Yes, I think Tractor made Lindström an offer but he refused. Maybe he will come if Tractor can lure another Swede or two with him? I understand that Tractor will have more money next season than it did this season.
JIMMIE ERICSSON

TheFatOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 06:26 AM
  #32
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
JIMMIE ERICSSON
what with him?

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 02:47 AM
  #33
Peter25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Mikko Lehtonen goes to Severstal.

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 05:01 PM
  #34
Peter25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I had to google that lol. that's not me. and the only post I found of that guy was a pan-slavist song haha. you are really trying hard to discredit me pyotr. Life in finland can't be that boring
Why are you lying?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...on-declaration.

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 09:10 PM
  #35
finchster
Registered User
 
finchster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belgorod
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to finchster
I wonder if it would make sense to create a combined Scandinavian league, perhaps create a bigger profile and draw more money into that league to keep their best players from going to the KHL.

finchster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 09:37 PM
  #36
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
peter I'm not even joking that's not me. this is the only forum I've ever been on. I'm a 5th generation scottish canadian with my roots in moterwell scotland on my dad's side, and glasgow on my mothers. I have absolutly nothing to do with poland or russia or eastern europe or europe for that matter or than genetics from the 17th and 19th centuries.

also my username is DiesIrae, is the name of a very famous catholic mass (and is a latin hymm obviously). not really surprising that other users have that username. plus he spells his dies irae, no capitals and a space.

it's not me.

I know that you have wayyy too much time on your hands.

EDIT: look here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/24806...o+Boats+-+1974

are you saying that the user Dies Irae is me? Im a greek guy now LOL

I could find dozens of forum users with the username dies irae.

seriously I'm starting to doubt your sanity. It's not healthy to be so obsessed with such a thing.


Last edited by obsenssive*: 05-04-2011 at 09:48 PM.
obsenssive* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 03:22 AM
  #37
Peter25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
I wonder if it would make sense to create a combined Scandinavian league, perhaps create a bigger profile and draw more money into that league to keep their best players from going to the KHL.
Why would a combined Scandinatian league generate more revenue for their respective teams than Elitserien and SM-liiga? Elitserien and SM-liiga already have good TV contracts and they are very popular leagues in both countries.

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 06:06 AM
  #38
cska78
Registered User
 
cska78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 10,744
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cska78 Send a message via Yahoo to cska78
Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
I wonder if it would make sense to create a combined Scandinavian league, perhaps create a bigger profile and draw more money into that league to keep their best players from going to the KHL.
why are swedish players going to KHL is of your concern, but them going to the NHL is not?

cska78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:17 PM
  #39
finchster
Registered User
 
finchster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belgorod
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to finchster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Why would a combined Scandinatian league generate more revenue for their respective teams than Elitserien and SM-liiga? Elitserien and SM-liiga already have good TV contracts and they are very popular leagues in both countries.
It would be a long term project but having a larger league with a larger global profile could potentially draw in larger revenues from TV and sponsorships in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
why are swedish players going to KHL is of your concern, but them going to the NHL is not?
I never said that, however when nations have strong domestic clubs their national team benefits. That’s my concern.

finchster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 02:02 PM
  #40
cska78
Registered User
 
cska78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 10,744
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cska78 Send a message via Yahoo to cska78
Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
It would be a long term project but having a larger league with a larger global profile could potentially draw in larger revenues from TV and sponsorships in the future.


I never said that, however when nations have strong domestic clubs their national team benefits. That’s my concern.
but the fact that North America had been praying on European talent for years and the majority of thеse players would be ruining their careers in the AHL, how about that?

cska78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 02:17 PM
  #41
finchster
Registered User
 
finchster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belgorod
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 7,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to finchster
Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
but the fact that North America had been praying on European talent for years and the majority of thеse players would be ruining their careers in the AHL, how about that?
It is better for Euro players to stay at home and develop as much as possible before coming here rather than wasting away in the AHL.

In my opinion what is best for hockey is stronger leagues and teams around the world. If it means less European players in the NHL in the future that's ok too, I would rather see the sport become popular in more countries.

finchster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 02:48 PM
  #42
Dosing
Registered User
 
Dosing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ivösjön
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
but the fact that North America had been praying on European talent for years and the majority of thеse players would be ruining their careers in the AHL, how about that?
Yea ur looking for the best for all euro players

lol at this thread

Dosing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 03:05 PM
  #43
cska78
Registered User
 
cska78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 10,744
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cska78 Send a message via Yahoo to cska78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smookie View Post
Yea ur looking for the best for all euro players

lol at this thread
no, but it's better for a Swede or a Finn not fit to play in the nhl for whatever reason to play in the KHL, than AHL if that's the choice.

cska78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2011, 05:30 AM
  #44
SerbianHabs
Registered User
 
SerbianHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Moscow,Russia
Country: Serbia
Posts: 380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
I



Maybe not good enough, but still far better. The rising standard of living has been showing in demographics for example. The TFR has risen from 1,1 to 1,6 between 2000-2010 and the number of people moving annually out of Russia has decreased from 150,000 to 30,000 between 1999-2010. Let's take Latvia and compare the two: 12,000 people moved out from Latvia in 2010 which is about three times less than from Russia. But Latvia's population is only 3 million where Russia has 142 million people. TFR in Latvia is only 1,2.
I am responding sorry OP that this has gone completley off topic.

Peter25, You are one of the few knowledgeable posters on this forum.

Just a quick refresh on Russia and the EVIL Putin/current Russian leadership.

Population unable to make ends meet(1999)=37%
Population unable to make ends meet(2011)=13%

Middle Class(2000)=5 Million Citizens
Middle Class(2011)=83 Million Citizens

Unemployment(Feb 1999)=14.6%
Unemployment(March 2011)=7.1%


In 2009 the population grew for the first time in 15 years and based on the past 3 years it has grown.

From 1998-2000 150,000-220,000 people were leaving Russia.
In 2010 it was 31,310.

Homicide rate(2000)=31,200
Homicide rate(2009)=17,681

The current Russian leadership may be no saints but they have managed to apply the economic boom with positive results. No other opposition party currently in Russia has trust or belief(deservedly so) that it will continue moving the nation in a positive direction. They had created funds in 2000 for any future economic problems such as the economic crisis in 2008 which has now believed to have been neutralized. The economy is now being modernized and diverted from complete reliance on oil and gas which will take years to develop but the country is receiving investment in diverse areas . Winning the World Cup 2018 hosting rights was crucial as it will improve infrastructure across the 13 cities hosting, this forces the government to work towards making this possible.

I am working in Russia right now and I did so a few years ago as an expat. A good number are in Moscow as Russia continues to play host to the world's richest expats with over one third of them earning in excess of $250,000 (£160,000) per annum. Although my wage is no where near that

My only problem with modern day Russia, well Moscow for that matter is the law enforcement are horrible and corruption is something that I think will take generations to be weeded out.

SerbianHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2011, 10:27 AM
  #45
Peter25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Fredrik Warg to Riga.
Pasi Puistola to Cherepovets.

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2011, 01:10 PM
  #46
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,681
vCash: 500
Lets have a look how many players is leaving Sweden for KHL (only confirmed)

AIK- nobody
Brynäs- nobody
Djurgården - one
Frölunda - nobody
HV71- 4
Linköping - one
Luleå- nobody
MODO- nobody
Skellefteå - 2
Timrå - nobody
Växjö Lakers- nobody

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 06:13 PM
  #47
Latgale_fan
Registered User
 
Latgale_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Let's take Latvia and compare the two: 12,000 people moved out from Latvia in 2010 which is about three times less than from Russia. But Latvia's population is only 3 million where Russia has 142 million people. TFR in Latvia is only 1,2.

What do you think Latvia should do to improve it's social and demographic situation which is worse than in Russia? Or do you only want to lecture Russia?


Latvia is in the EU, that means that you can work freely and legally in the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Germany etc. You don't need work permits, don't need to be skilled etc. It's just like a person going from Pskov to work in Moscow.
All the young people know English so, of course, they'd better earn about 2000 USD per month in London and more... when the minimum wage in Latvia is 400 USD.

With Ryanair, when they have promotional campaigns you can go to London/Stockholm paying 10 euros or even a bit less.... How much does it cost to go from Kazan to London?

You just can't compare the two situations... And even if this number of Latvians leave, they are back for every holidays... At least the vast majority of them. It takes AN HOUR to go from Riga to London/ Oslo/Berlin by plane......

Of course they're going for work/studies abroad.... Who wouldn't. A half or more of all young people have spent a half year or more in other EU countries, either studying there, being in ERASMUS exchange program or working.

If you had to pay 100s to fly to Western Europe, if you needed a visa and a work permit (that would only allow skilled workers to search for a job in UK, for example) and wouldn't know English sure you'd stay home......


Last edited by Latgale_fan: 08-20-2011 at 06:19 PM.
Latgale_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2011, 10:16 PM
  #48
checkerdome
Registered User
 
checkerdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Do Finns play hockey the same way Russians do?

Are there obvious distinctions between the way the 2 countries approach the game; or are Finn and Russian hockey players pretty well interchangeable in terms of skill set?



checkerdome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2011, 06:11 AM
  #49
seeep
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 417
vCash: 500
Melin and Fernholm were released btw
Melis has -9 in 11 games and 0 points, lol
both played for Neftekhimik last year and were released too

seeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.