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Old
10-20-2011, 12:47 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
I don't think is the cowardly way when it comes to rebuilding. if our team was crp then rebuild but its not crap at all.
It's not good enough to win. And it's not likely to be good enough to win with the core we have now anytime soon.

Being able to recognize this does not make anyone less of a fan. But it does take objectivity.

Saying 'we're not a crap team' isn't good enough. Being an average team isn't good enough. You won't win cups this way. We aren't good enough to win and I think this is the problem that a lot of people have with rebuilding. They want to believe that we're better than we are and it's hard for them to admit that we're just not all that great a team.

It's been the same thing for Leaf fans for years. I'd tell my buddy who's a Leaf fan that they need to rebuild... he'd just stubbornly say they were a good team and he supported all their moves like Jason Blake. It's led them nowhere but year after year he believes that club can win the cup. You may say that's a great fan... and maybe he is, but I'd say he's just not able to look at his team from an objective perspective. He doesn't get that his club isn't good enough and even though Blake may offer a short term gain, he wasn't going to lead them anywhere.

Same with us. We haven't been as bad as the Leafs have in trading away 1st rounders the way they have but we've started to take a page out of their book by getting FAs to build around who won't lead us anywhere.

Some of us, recognize that this is the wrong path.
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Thats the point im making in short. Tanking and purposely losing games is cowardly and you agree with me on that from your previous post, so we actuality agree on that.
You can't purposely lose games. You'd be fined, it's illegal.

Folks who want to discredit rebuilding always use the term 'tanking'... Nobody is suggesting we lose on purpose and if they are they don't know what they're talking about.
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
but we are in a league were in the offseason we could sign a top caliber player, rumor has it we wer even in on Richards this past summer, so its not like habs management isn't trying. As for Calgary I live there and I think Jay Feaster is doing a great job here in calgary because hes doing it the right way. I'm done with this though we obviously have different opinions so leave it at that.
How long have we tried to sign top caliber players.

Dude, top caliber players rarely become free agents to begin with. Do you think that the Caps are going to let OV go to free agency? Of course not.

The kinds of guys who usually wind up being free agents are the leftovers... Guys who want more money than they're worth and are expendable. Those are the guys who are available and that's how we've built a large part of our core.

The guys who we should actually be excited about are the guys we drafted ourselves and traded for as prospects or picks. MaxPac, Price, Subban, Eller, Gorges... all these guys came from picks or traded for as prospects or picks.

If we aren't good enough to win, it makes sense to deal away guys who aren't going to lead us anywhere but might be good for teams looking for the last piece of the puzzle. No, we won't get a 1st overall but we can at least get prospects and picks out of it.

This is not being a coward anymore than in poker when you fold on a 7-2 draw. It makes sense to bide your time until you actually have a shot at winning and then going for it. It takes patience and thought to do this and not everyone agrees that it's the best way to go, but to dismiss it out of hand is being shortsighted.

The philosophy of 'get the last playoff spot and anything can happen' really isn't likely to work. If we want to win a cup, we need to be serious about it and stop wasting our time with whatever leftovers are on the FA wire.

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Old
10-20-2011, 12:58 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's not good enough to win. And it's not likely to be good enough to win with the core we have now anytime soon.

Being able to recognize this does not make anyone less of a fan. But it does take objectivity.

Saying 'we're not a crap team' isn't good enough. Being an average team isn't good enough. You won't win cups this way. We aren't good enough to win and I think this is the problem that a lot of people have with rebuilding. They want to believe that we're better than we are and it's hard for them to admit that we're just not all that great a team.

It's been the same thing for Leaf fans for years. I'd tell my buddy who's a Leaf fan that they need to rebuild... he'd just stubbornly say they were a good team and he supported all their moves like Jason Blake. It's led them nowhere but year after year he believes that club can win the cup. You may say that's a great fan... and maybe he is, but I'd say he's just not able to look at his team from an objective perspective. He doesn't get that his club isn't good enough and even though Blake may offer a short term gain, he wasn't going to lead them anywhere.

Same with us. We haven't been as bad as the Leafs have in trading away 1st rounders the way they have but we've started to take a page out of their book by getting FAs to build around who won't lead us anywhere.

Some of us, recognize that this is the wrong path.

You can't purposely lose games. You'd be fined, it's illegal.

Folks who want to discredit rebuilding always use the term 'tanking'... Nobody is suggesting we lose on purpose and if they are they don't know what they're talking about.

How long have we tried to sign top caliber players.

Dude, top caliber players rarely become free agents to begin with. Do you think that the Caps are going to let OV go to free agency? Of course not.

The kinds of guys who usually wind up being free agents are the leftovers... Guys who want more money than they're worth and are expendable. Those are the guys who are available and that's how we've built a large part of our core.

The guys who we should actually be excited about are the guys we drafted ourselves and traded for as prospects or picks. MaxPac, Price, Subban, Eller, Gorges... all these guys came from picks or traded for as prospects or picks.

If we aren't good enough to win, it makes sense to deal away guys who aren't going to lead us anywhere but might be good for teams looking for the last piece of the puzzle. No, we won't get a 1st overall but we can at least get prospects and picks out of it.

This is not being a coward anymore than in poker when you fold on a 7-2 draw. It makes sense to bide your time until you actually have a shot at winning and then going for it. It takes patience and thought to do this and not everyone agrees that it's the best way to go, but to dismiss it out of hand is being shortsighted.

The philosophy of 'get the last playoff spot and anything can happen' really isn't likely to work. If we want to win a cup, we need to be serious about it and stop wasting our time with whatever leftovers are on the FA wire.
and this is why PG is GM and your not. And stop quoting 1000 things its annoying

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Old
10-20-2011, 01:17 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Folks who want to discredit rebuilding always use the term 'tanking'... Nobody is suggesting we lose on purpose and if they are they don't know what they're talking about.
really ? isnt the goal to sell enough good players so we lose enough games to get a top pick ?

no need to BS yourself and everyone else. When the goal is to lose games, when you sell enough good players to have this goal within reach, that the players left are either inexperienced enough or bad enough that losing games becomes easy (so to speak), you are doing it on purpose...

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10-20-2011, 01:42 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
That would suck. I bet all those people that spent big money on season tickets would just love to hear we are getting rid of a bunch of vets for picks and prospects.
Just like they're loving to pay big money to see a mediocre team year after year?

This team needs a dynamic offensive talent, if it takes one year of pain to get it, isn't worth it for the at least 7 years of excitement it would bring? And it's not like I said to trade off Plekanec and Markov.

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10-20-2011, 01:46 PM
  #155
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We don't need to tank, but we need management with a different view on hockey. We need to have a more aggresive bunch !! Guys that DON'T like to lose. Sometimes i get the feeling that some of the vets don't take losing as bad as they should.

Remember this is my opinon and does not necessarily reflect those of this site and their posters

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Old
10-20-2011, 01:52 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Just like they're loving to pay big money to see a mediocre team year after year?

This team needs a dynamic offensive talent, if it takes one year of pain to get it, isn't worth it for the at least 7 years of excitement it would bring? And it's not like I said to trade off Plekanec and Markov.
I agree with the 1st part of your statement. However, if our team still continues to loose games like this, why not trade away our veterans already. Shake things up and completely rebuild the team with picks and new players. Philadelphia just traded away their 2 franchise centerman in a lapse of a couple of hours. And I am not saying this because I'm panicking, but on the contrary, we should listen to all offers and be open to trade away players like Cammalleri, Plekanec and especially Markov. No players except Subban and Price should be safe from trades. And our dynamic offense will be acquired through the draft: Yakupov, Grigorenko or MacKinnon. I'm really high on Nathan and he could be exactly what we need. I can see him putting 120+ pts next year in his draft year.

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Old
10-20-2011, 01:58 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Just like they're loving to pay big money to see a mediocre team year after year?

This team needs a dynamic offensive talent, if it takes one year of pain to get it, isn't worth it for the at least 7 years of excitement it would bring? And it's not like I said to trade off Plekanec and Markov.
problem is, it takes more than ONE year of pain... and besides, having 1 top pick doesnt guarantee anything, just look at OV, starting his 7th season...

wonder who are the delusionnal ones in here...
- those who think the team should keep (trying to) improving every year
- those who think we'd be guaranteed to become contenders after picking top 5/10 in ONE draft (Carey Price anyone...)

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10-20-2011, 01:59 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
I agree with the 1st part of your statement. However, if our team still continues to loose games like this, why not trade away our veterans already. Shake things up and completely rebuild the team with picks and new players. Philadelphia just traded away their 2 franchise centerman in a lapse of a couple of hours. And I am not saying this because I'm panicking, but on the contrary, we should listen to all offers and be open to trade away players like Cammalleri, Plekanec and especially Markov. No players except Subban and Price should be safe from trades. And our dynamic offense will be acquired through the draft: Yakupov, Grigorenko or MacKinnon. I'm really high on Nathan and he could be exactly what we need. I can see him putting 120+ pts next year in his draft year.
Because we're looking to build a competitive team and there's no reason to really trade away pieces that can contribute to a winning squad. You're not likely to get the value back in a trade for Cammy or Plekanec. Yeah, if we're going to get Grigorenko, maybe you can afford to off-load Plekanec. Only, only, if Lars Eller has developed into the 60 point defensively responsible center that he's supposed to become.

I keep Cole and Cammy because we need the grit of Cole in the top 9 and we need a legitimate sniper and Cammy is the only one we have. MacKinnon and Grigorenko are more playmakers than legitimate snipers.

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10-20-2011, 02:00 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
problem is, it takes more than ONE year of pain... and besides, having 1 top pick doesnt guarantee anything, just look at OV, starting his 7th season...

wonder who are the delusionnal ones in here...
- those who think the team should keep (trying to) improving every year
- those who think we'd be guaranteed to become contenders after picking top 5/10 in ONE draft (Carey Price anyone...)
I'm saying we have a solid enough core with enough up and coming prospects that if we failed this year and got one of Yakupov or Grigorenko, yes, we'd be a much improved club. Instead of finishing 6th to 9th, getting a mid range pick and not getting any one of real offensive substance.

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10-20-2011, 02:01 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I feel the notion of tanking is simplistic and attractive to fantasy hockey participants, and has no place in reality.
Sums up my opinion on the subject perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Just like they're loving to pay big money to see a mediocre team year after year?

This team needs a dynamic offensive talent, if it takes one year of pain to get it, isn't worth it for the at least 7 years of excitement it would bring? And it's not like I said to trade off Plekanec and Markov.
The thing is you don't even know if the player will pan out in the NHL. Drafting is all about luck. There's a chance the whole tanking business would just leave us worse off than where we are now.

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Old
10-20-2011, 02:05 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Just like they're loving to pay big money to see a mediocre team year after year?

This team needs a dynamic offensive talent, if it takes one year of pain to get it, isn't worth it for the at least 7 years of excitement it would bring? And it's not like I said to trade off Plekanec and Markov.
They already shelled out the money, you really think that most wouldn't be pissed off if the team went and started trading off it's vets now? This is the new NHL were almost any team has a shot, look at how close the standings are each year now aside from one or two teams at both ends.

I'm all for making some changes over time but to just sell off vets when you are a consistent playoff team every year is flat out nuts.

And there's no way the Habs could off load a bunch of their vets and get back to being a playoff team after just 1 year. You see how barely any UFA's ever sign here, it would be a long hard road if we were to take that approach.

For me there's nothing better then playoff hockey, I don't care how we get there just get there. If we lose in the 1st round to boston it hurts but I'd rather that then miss the playoffs. The late '90's and early '00's was the worst time ever, I never ever want to go through that again.

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10-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm saying we have a solid enough core with enough up and coming prospects that if we failed this year and got one of Yakupov or Grigorenko, yes, we'd be a much improved club. Instead of finishing 6th to 9th, getting a mid range pick and not getting any one of real offensive substance.
you know you'd have to trade more than just one or two players for us to be as bad or worst than CBJ, OTT or WPG right ?

not only trading just one or two players wont help you achieve that, but if the ones you keep happen to be your best players (Cammy, Plek), you lower your chances of finishing at the bottom...

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10-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Just like they're loving to pay big money to see a mediocre team year after year?

This team needs a dynamic offensive talent, if it takes one year of pain to get it, isn't worth it for the at least 7 years of excitement it would bring? And it's not like I said to trade off Plekanec and Markov.
How are they watching mediocrity year after year? In 07-08 they finished #1 in the conference. In 09-10 they went to the Semi Finals.

Boston won the cup without dynamic offensive talent. We have Subban who is among the most skilled d-men in hockey(Markov is there too though not as flashy). Up front we have weapons, recently added size and skill in Eller, Pacioretty and Cole.

You are trying to make us sound like Toronto, Winnipeg/atlanta, the Islanders, Florida or Columbus.

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10-20-2011, 02:10 PM
  #164
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Haha only in Montreal after a 1-3-1 start would we be seriously contemplating an implosion. Let's just say for the heck of it, if we had scored in OT in game 7, would you all be so negative ?

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10-20-2011, 02:10 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
They already shelled out the money, you really think that most wouldn't be pissed off if the team went and started trading off it's vets now? This is the new NHL were almost any team has a shot, look at how close the standings are each year now aside from one or two teams at both ends.

I'm all for making some changes over time but to just sell off vets when you are a consistent playoff team every year is flat out nuts.

And there's no way the Habs could off load a bunch of their vets and get back to being a playoff team after just 1 year. You see how barely any UFA's ever sign here, it would be a long hard road if we were to take that approach.

For me there's nothing better then playoff hockey, I don't care how we get there just get there. If we lose in the 1st round to boston it hurts but I'd rather that then miss the playoffs. The late '90's and early '00's was the worst time ever, I never ever want to go through that again.
I'm only proposing to get rid of a few of the players, yes, one of them is the captain. But I'm selectively pruning away players that I don't feel are necessary to success in both regular season and the play-offs. With what I proposed, the line-up would look mostly like this.

Cole-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Pacioretty-Eller-Kostitsyn
Darche-Desharnais-Palushaj
White-Engqvist-Dumont

Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Diaz-Weber

Price
Budaj

Do I expect a lot of value for Gomez, Gionta, Moen, Spacek, Campoli and Gill? No, but I expect enough to be able to flip into the bottom half of the 1st round. One top 5 after our tanking extravaganza and one late round. If one of those players happened to be Grigorenko or Yakupov, there's no doubt that either one of those two could step in and contribute right away next season.

Edit: And let me say, I am not saying to blow it up right now or anything of that nature. I am merely expressing that I am okay with tanking for a season, rather than trading picks and prospects for stop-gaps to get into the play-offs.

As for Montreals point of view. Yes, after the Roy trade and we didn't make the play-offs, it was a horrible time. You know what made it worse? That we didn't finish low enough in the standings to get those top picks and get top level talent onto the team. If we're going to make the play-offs, yes, that's what I want, I want to win it all. If we're going to get embarassed in the 1st round or not make the play-offs? I'd rather tank and get a real building block.

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10-20-2011, 02:14 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm saying we have a solid enough core with enough up and coming prospects that if we failed this year and got one of Yakupov or Grigorenko, yes, we'd be a much improved club. Instead of finishing 6th to 9th, getting a mid range pick and not getting any one of real offensive substance.
We're not going to come in last with the young guys we have anyway.

As I've said in other threads, I think we'll be a playoff team this year and have a decent season. If by February though we're sitting there not sure if we're going to make 8th place, we should scrap what we have, keep the young guys and build with youth. Chalk up the silly signings to a failed experiment and move on.

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10-20-2011, 02:15 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm only proposing to get rid of a few of the players, yes, one of them is the captain. But I'm selectively pruning away players that I don't feel are necessary to success in both regular season and the play-offs. With what I proposed, the line-up would look mostly like this.

Cole-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Pacioretty-Eller-Kostitsyn
Darche-Desharnais-Palushaj
White-Engqvist-Dumont

Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Diaz-Weber

Price
Budaj

Do I expect a lot of value for Gomez, Gionta, Moen, Spacek, Campoli and Gill? No, but I expect enough to be able to flip into the bottom half of the 1st round. One top 5 after our tanking extravaganza and one late round. If one of those players happened to be Grigorenko or Yakupov, there's no doubt that either one of those two could step in and contribute right away next season.

Edit: And let me say, I am not saying to blow it up right now or anything of that nature. I am merely expressing that I am okay with tanking for a season, rather than trading picks and prospects for stop-gaps to get into the play-offs.

As for Montreals point of view. Yes, after the Roy trade and we didn't make the play-offs, it was a horrible time. You know what made it worse? That we didn't finish low enough in the standings to get those top picks and get top level talent onto the team. If we're going to make the play-offs, yes, that's what I want, I want to win it all. If we're going to get embarassed in the 1st round or not make the play-offs? I'd rather tank and get a real building block.
Yay Darche is playing in our top 9 !!

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10-20-2011, 02:18 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We're not going to come in last with the young guys we have anyway.

As I've said in other threads, I think we'll be a playoff team this year and have a decent season. If by February though we're sitting there not sure if we're going to make 8th place, we should scrap what we have, keep the young guys and build with youth. Chalk up the silly signings to a failed experiment and move on.
Problem is, if we're any where near a play-off spot, like if we;re not completely out of contention, this management group won't do that. They'll do what they've always done, make a few minor deals, stand pat and let UFA's walk for nothing.

Souray.
Streit.
Komisarek.
Koivu.
Kovalev.
Tanguay.
Schneider.
Wizniewski.
Moore.

How many players did we trade for to let them walk in UFA when they had high value? I'll never forget not trading Souray at the dead-line, when he was scoring, a lot of people wanted him, and we stood pat. Missed the play-offs and he walked. Komisarek and Streit were valuable commodities. Komisarek has floundered and Streit has excelled.

Wizniewski and Moore served us well when we acquired them, but we let them go for nothing. Really, Moore centering our 4th line right now would be a dream. Wizniewski back on D rather than Spacek or Campoli? Definitely makes our PP better and a more dangerous offensive team.

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10-20-2011, 02:30 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Problem is, if we're any where near a play-off spot, like if we;re not completely out of contention, this management group won't do that. They'll do what they've always done, make a few minor deals, stand pat and let UFA's walk for nothing.

Souray.
Streit.
Komisarek.
Koivu.
Kovalev.
Tanguay.
Schneider.
Wizniewski.
Moore.

How many players did we trade for to let them walk in UFA when they had high value?
I think its time to understand that its the same problem for 20/22 teams in February. We're not the only ones to do that way, everyone does it.

No one is going to offer good players if he's not out of contention at the trade deadline.
And many teams let walk good players every single year.
Just look at the last summer, it was arguably a very poor year, but still, you can find a guy like Richards or a goalie like Vokoun.
Why i'm talking about them : Both were playing in teams that were not part of the PO.

The teams are rebuilding only when its the only choice left, not because they decided to.

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10-20-2011, 02:32 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's not good enough to win. And it's not likely to be good enough to win with the core we have now anytime soon.

Being able to recognize this does not make anyone less of a fan. But it does take objectivity.

Saying 'we're not a crap team' isn't good enough. Being an average team isn't good enough. You won't win cups this way. We aren't good enough to win and I think this is the problem that a lot of people have with rebuilding. They want to believe that we're better than we are and it's hard for them to admit that we're just not all that great a team.

It's been the same thing for Leaf fans for years. I'd tell my buddy who's a Leaf fan that they need to rebuild... he'd just stubbornly say they were a good team and he supported all their moves like Jason Blake. It's led them nowhere but year after year he believes that club can win the cup. You may say that's a great fan... and maybe he is, but I'd say he's just not able to look at his team from an objective perspective. He doesn't get that his club isn't good enough and even though Blake may offer a short term gain, he wasn't going to lead them anywhere.

Same with us. We haven't been as bad as the Leafs have in trading away 1st rounders the way they have but we've started to take a page out of their book by getting FAs to build around who won't lead us anywhere.

Some of us, recognize that this is the wrong path.

You can't purposely lose games. You'd be fined, it's illegal.

Folks who want to discredit rebuilding always use the term 'tanking'... Nobody is suggesting we lose on purpose and if they are they don't know what they're talking about.

How long have we tried to sign top caliber players.

Dude, top caliber players rarely become free agents to begin with. Do you think that the Caps are going to let OV go to free agency? Of course not.

The kinds of guys who usually wind up being free agents are the leftovers... Guys who want more money than they're worth and are expendable. Those are the guys who are available and that's how we've built a large part of our core.

The guys who we should actually be excited about are the guys we drafted ourselves and traded for as prospects or picks. MaxPac, Price, Subban, Eller, Gorges... all these guys came from picks or traded for as prospects or picks.

If we aren't good enough to win, it makes sense to deal away guys who aren't going to lead us anywhere but might be good for teams looking for the last piece of the puzzle. No, we won't get a 1st overall but we can at least get prospects and picks out of it.

This is not being a coward anymore than in poker when you fold on a 7-2 draw. It makes sense to bide your time until you actually have a shot at winning and then going for it. It takes patience and thought to do this and not everyone agrees that it's the best way to go, but to dismiss it out of hand is being shortsighted.

The philosophy of 'get the last playoff spot and anything can happen' really isn't likely to work. If we want to win a cup, we need to be serious about it and stop wasting our time with whatever leftovers are on the FA wire.
I love when somebody comes up with a brilliant statement like "It's not good enough to win. And it's not likely to be good enough to win with the core we have now anytime soon."

Let me get this straight...we are FIVE games into an 82 game season where we have outshot just about everybody playing mostly with 3 rookie defensemen(3 veterans out) and minus our best goal scorer and our All-star goalie has not played up to par and we should write off the season as "not good enough to win".

That HAS to win an award!

The same core last year came within a hair of knocking out the eventual cup champs minus key players(Markov Gaorges etc) but instead of adding pieces(Cole Diaz Yemelin etc) we should just give up and tank?

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10-20-2011, 02:36 PM
  #171
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I'm only proposing to get rid of a few of the players, yes, one of them is the captain. But I'm selectively pruning away players that I don't feel are necessary to success in both regular season and the play-offs. With what I proposed, the line-up would look mostly like this.

Cole-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Pacioretty-Eller-Kostitsyn
Darche-Desharnais-Palushaj
White-Engqvist-Dumont

Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Diaz-Weber

Price
Budaj

Do I expect a lot of value for Gomez, Gionta, Moen, Spacek, Campoli and Gill? No, but I expect enough to be able to flip into the bottom half of the 1st round. One top 5 after our tanking extravaganza and one late round. If one of those players happened to be Grigorenko or Yakupov, there's no doubt that either one of those two could step in and contribute right away next season.

Edit: And let me say, I am not saying to blow it up right now or anything of that nature. I am merely expressing that I am okay with tanking for a season, rather than trading picks and prospects for stop-gaps to get into the play-offs.

As for Montreals point of view. Yes, after the Roy trade and we didn't make the play-offs, it was a horrible time. You know what made it worse? That we didn't finish low enough in the standings to get those top picks and get top level talent onto the team. If we're going to make the play-offs, yes, that's what I want, I want to win it all. If we're going to get embarassed in the 1st round or not make the play-offs? I'd rather tank and get a real building block.
realty is, the line up you put there is good enough to finish top10 in the East...

What you're offering actually is a new version of what people seems to be blaming the Habs org for... instead of the "buy enough to barely make the PO", you present us the "sell enough to barely miss the PO"...

I mean, if we're to sell and finish 19 overall instead of 18th, might as well keep the players and get a few PO games to watch...

according to most we'll be knock out of the PO in the first round, we'll get the 15th pick instead of 13th, but f***ing deal!

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10-20-2011, 02:41 PM
  #172
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I'm only proposing to get rid of a few of the players, yes, one of them is the captain.
I couldn't see the Habs doing this at all, not sure why you want to trade Gio since he's the only one that seems able to score more then 25 goals for us. Many of those guys will be gone next summer anyways and the return for most wouldn't be worth it imo. (Spacek, Gill, Moen, etc...)

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10-20-2011, 03:04 PM
  #173
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I couldn't see the Habs doing this at all, not sure why you want to trade Gio since he's the only one that seems able to score more then 25 goals for us. Many of those guys will be gone next summer anyways and the return for most wouldn't be worth it imo. (Spacek, Gill, Moen, etc...)
Of course they won't do it. There's a lot they won't do. It is the Habs. They aren't exactly good at maximizing assets.

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10-20-2011, 03:09 PM
  #174
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Problem is, if we're any where near a play-off spot, like if we;re not completely out of contention, this management group won't do that. They'll do what they've always done, make a few minor deals, stand pat and let UFA's walk for nothing.
I know. Sadly... I know.
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Souray.
Streit.
Komisarek.
Koivu.
Kovalev.
Tanguay.
Schneider.
Wizniewski.
Moore.
Don't forget wasted assets Ribeiro, Grabs, S Kosti, Higgins, Lapierre, McD, O'Byrne...
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How many players did we trade for to let them walk in UFA when they had high value? I'll never forget not trading Souray at the dead-line, when he was scoring, a lot of people wanted him, and we stood pat. Missed the play-offs and he walked. Komisarek and Streit were valuable commodities. Komisarek has floundered and Streit has excelled.

Wizniewski and Moore served us well when we acquired them, but we let them go for nothing. Really, Moore centering our 4th line right now would be a dream. Wizniewski back on D rather than Spacek or Campoli? Definitely makes our PP better and a more dangerous offensive team.
Certainly some of those can be explained but you're right overall it's a long, long list of guys we gave away or let leave for next to nothing. I really didn't care about us giving away Ribeiro for example but when you give him away along with everyone else it becomes a big problem.

And no, I don't think we'll do a rebuild anytime soon and I think that it's too bad because I think it would help us.
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I love when somebody comes up with a brilliant statement like "It's not good enough to win. And it's not likely to be good enough to win with the core we have now anytime soon."

Let me get this straight...we are FIVE games into an 82 game season where we have outshot just about everybody playing mostly with 3 rookie defensemen(3 veterans out) and minus our best goal scorer and our All-star goalie has not played up to par and we should write off the season as "not good enough to win".

That HAS to win an award!
Actually, what deserves an award is some guy coming into this thread and actually trying to pass off the first five games as the basis of my opinion.

The core was built two years ago. We should've rebuilt then but reloaded with medicority to replace our already mediocre core. That is not going to change this season dude. I don't need the 5 games we've already seen to know this. And when we go on our inevitable hot streak at some point and you're over there posting in the "Gosh it feels like '93!!!!!111" thread, I still won't see us as good enough.

We don't have a core capable of winning a cup. We have a goalie who's capable and we have some guys who may be able to be part of a winning core down the road, but we've saddled ourselves with a mediocre core that isn't going to win this season or next if we're still stuck with those guys.

So please... take your "it's only 5 games" crap and go back to the "Gosh I hope Gomez Scores at Least 45 Points This Year" thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The same core last year came within a hair of knocking out the eventual cup champs minus key players(Markov Gaorges etc) but instead of adding pieces(Cole Diaz Yemelin etc) we should just give up and tank?
We should've rebuilt two years ago. Instead we delayed this by re-stocking with more medicority. Yet you defend this. I don't understand why...

Don't you ever want to see a cup here again? Or will you be happy telling your grandchildren (with great pride no doubt) how you got to see us (led by the great Brian Gionta) lose to the eventual cup champs in a 7 game first round knockout?

Again, I listen to Leaf fans everyday talk with pride about 1993 and how they ALMOST made it to the finals. And sadly, that's what I see here. People not only defending mediocrity but championing it.

Like I said, the Hab threads become more and more like the Leaf threads every day. Defending stupid moves like the Gomez trade and being happy with signing an over the hill guy like Cole to a 4 year deal. That's not how you build a winning team and if the logo was Toronto's, you'd know this. But because it's a CH on the sweaters it becomes... anyone can play, anyone can win. Right.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 10-20-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
10-20-2011, 03:33 PM
  #175
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How are they watching mediocrity year after year? In 07-08 they finished #1 in the conference. In 09-10 they went to the Semi Finals.

Boston won the cup without dynamic offensive talent. We have Subban who is among the most skilled d-men in hockey(Markov is there too though not as flashy). Up front we have weapons, recently added size and skill in Eller, Pacioretty and Cole.

You are trying to make us sound like Toronto, Winnipeg/atlanta, the Islanders, Florida or Columbus.
Thank you. It's so funny to see everyone FREAKING out on here. We dont need a top pick. If we get a pick in the first round it's fair game, anyone in the first round can become a star. And there are always hidden gems in the draft that go later than the 1st. Seems like people on here only want a high profile draft pick. Everyone is also forgetting the fact that our young players look awesome this yr and better than last, thus when out injured players come back we will be an even better team than last yr. Nobody seems to get that logic that with the young core we have we can only get better.

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