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OT - Tampa Bay Rays talking relocation

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Old
10-18-2011, 09:15 PM
  #251
Nuclear SUV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hochuli View Post

No market is need of a team.


Portland-Seattle, too small
Portland is too far from Seattle, and it is not too small. There are 2.7 million people between Longview, WA and Salem, OR.

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10-18-2011, 10:32 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Hochuli View Post
1) The region is not big, it's got a so so population, but it's all spread out sprawl.
I goes from the Outer Banks of North Carolina to Williamsburg. This is a very large Geographic area.
There really is no CBD, there is no major downtown destination.
I can't speak to specifics in the Carolinas but in the case of the Texas Rangers I know there are quite a few fans that come to games from all over the area - up to 2 hours away or more. Personally, I hate that the Ballpark is in Arlington and not Dallas, making it a 70+ mile drive one way from the north end of the Dallas side of the metroplex. But I do realize that the location of the stadium does make it more accessible to our more country-living fans coming from west of the metropolitan area.

Significantly, the branding of the team as the "Texas" Rangers allows these people to proudly wear Rangers gear and feel that it's their "hometown" team, regardless of the fact that they live in the sticks and not in the D-FW metropolitan area. I could be wrong but I think in the South a marketing strategy like that (especially in states where baseball is a big deal at the grassroots level) can really bring out the crowds, especially when a winning product is on the field.

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10-19-2011, 03:06 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
Portland is too far from Seattle, and it is not too small. There are 2.7 million people between Longview, WA and Salem, OR.
Portland is too small to draw for 81 games.
It also is considered a supplementary market for Seattle, putting a baseball team there would not be a success.

Heck, they can barely make money in the NBA where they sell out nightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I can't speak to specifics in the Carolinas but in the case of the Texas Rangers I know there are quite a few fans that come to games from all over the area - up to 2 hours away or more. Personally, I hate that the Ballpark is in Arlington and not Dallas, making it a 70+ mile drive one way from the north end of the Dallas side of the metroplex. But I do realize that the location of the stadium does make it more accessible to our more country-living fans coming from west of the metropolitan area.

Significantly, the branding of the team as the "Texas" Rangers allows these people to proudly wear Rangers gear and feel that it's their "hometown" team, regardless of the fact that they live in the sticks and not in the D-FW metropolitan area. I could be wrong but I think in the South a marketing strategy like that (especially in states where baseball is a big deal at the grassroots level) can really bring out the crowds, especially when a winning product is on the field.
Hampton Roads is not Dallas though.

Dallas/FW is a top 10 market, HR isn't close to it.
The area completely lacks the CBD, the business, and frankly, the regional support needed.

It pretty much is a military base where people stay 3-5 years+a summer colony+sprawl from tertiary services to support the military.
That's it.

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10-19-2011, 08:10 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hochuli View Post
Portland is too small to draw for 81 games.
2.25 million is not too small.

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10-19-2011, 10:06 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hochuli View Post
Portland is too small to draw for 81 games.
It also is considered a supplementary market for Seattle, putting a baseball team there would not be a success.

Heck, they can barely make money in the NBA where they sell out nightly.
- Portland is NOT too small. It is larger and less saturated than many current MLB markets. Again, 2,700,000 people (and growing) between Longview, WA and Salem, OR. There is another 550,000 people between Salem and Eugene.

- Portland is TOO FAR from Seattle. I should know, I live in between both. The traffic between Olympia and Seattle is awful, so it is a 4+ hour trip just to get to a 7pm ballgame.

- The Portland Trailblazers are one of the most successful NBA franchises and have regularly ranked towards the top of Forbes's valuations. Because of their arena spat, I would question much of the accounting. Uber-rich owner Paul Allen's willingness to spend well over the salary cap is another reason their profitability has been lacking in the past, but that has nothing to do with it being a deficient market.


There is a genuine knock against Portland, but you still haven't mentioned it yet. Portland isn't too small and it is too far from Seattle; those are not strikes against Portland at all.

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10-19-2011, 10:19 PM
  #256
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Hampton Roads is not a MLB market. Too small, plus the regional area would be way too small. You'd basically have the Hampton Roads, Richmond, and Roanoke markets, and maybe Salisbury, MD. The area lost its chance when the Nationals moved to DC.

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10-20-2011, 11:38 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sctvman View Post
Hampton Roads is not a MLB market. Too small, plus the regional area would be way too small. You'd basically have the Hampton Roads, Richmond, and Roanoke markets, and maybe Salisbury, MD. The area lost its chance when the Nationals moved to DC.
technically, it is an MLB Market, the Norfolk/Tidewater Tides, who share ownership w/ the Norfolk Admirals are there..... Richmond has the former Norwich franchise(the Flying Squirrels), Salisbury has a franchise in the SAL, or is already covered w/ the Bowie Baysox (BAL).... Roanoke has shown no interest in pro sports including hockey, after the mismanagement of the Rebels, or the final days of the ECHL Express.

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10-20-2011, 12:20 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
technically, it is an MLB Market, the Norfolk/Tidewater Tides, who share ownership w/ the Norfolk Admirals are there..... Richmond has the former Norwich franchise(the Flying Squirrels), Salisbury has a franchise in the SAL, or is already covered w/ the Bowie Baysox (BAL).... Roanoke has shown no interest in pro sports including hockey, after the mismanagement of the Rebels, or the final days of the ECHL Express.
The Carolina League's Salem Red Sox cover Roanoke by default and probably have more fan support there than they'd ever have in Roanoke.

I wonder how an ECHL team would do in Richmond nowadays especially with the growing Caps fanbase there. Isn't the main problem that their arena is too old and big which is what scared both the ECHL Renegades and SPHL Renegades away. Who knows what could have been if the latter of those two lasted one more season...

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10-20-2011, 12:52 PM
  #259
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thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynicaps View Post
The Carolina League's Salem Red Sox cover Roanoke by default and probably have more fan support there than they'd ever have in Roanoke.

I wonder how an ECHL team would do in Richmond nowadays especially with the growing Caps fanbase there. Isn't the main problem that their arena is too old and big which is what scared both the ECHL Renegades and SPHL Renegades away. Who knows what could have been if the latter of those two lasted one more season...
I think Richmond was to have another arena done by 2011 in Chesterfield County from what I understand, but nothing has been proposed by any ownership group there to the ECHL.... THE SPHL version folded due to economics, hence why the Braves pulled their franchise to Gwinnett.....I remember the latter days when Norfolk's pro franchises visit here (as the Norfolk Admirals still do, in fact Washington had tht affiliation, before the Admirals were promoted, hence why they have SC... IN FACT, 2003 was the last season the Caps were in VA, after losing Norfolk, they switched to Richmond, just as Ebright had his team in Baltimore. Add in the Riverdogs/Chicago Hounds experiment....

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10-20-2011, 01:12 PM
  #260
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Bottom line, Hampton Roads is NOT a major league market.

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10-20-2011, 01:39 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hochuli View Post
Bottom line, Hampton Roads is NOT a major league market.
if any market, including Norfolk, is served by any pro league, just bc it's not the highest level in that league, doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't be, but it's highly unlikely....

btw, HR is a region term that was tossed when the Admirals were promoted bc they play in a city-owned arena, which is why Norfolk won the right to be the host market....

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10-20-2011, 01:41 PM
  #262
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baseball is in serious trouble. ratings are pathetic this post season, attendance was down all year, and so were tv ratings. there needs to be structure

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10-20-2011, 01:49 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by karnige View Post
baseball is in serious trouble. ratings are pathetic this post season, attendance was down all year, and so were tv ratings. there needs to be structure
MLB attendance actually increased slightly this year - 30,229 vs 30,080 (+0.62%).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...tendance.shtml

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10-20-2011, 02:14 PM
  #264
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Phillies aatendance was insane, and i'm sure most big clubs were the same. I'm sure there is a city out there that would love to have a baseball team, or a second one.

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Old
10-20-2011, 02:30 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Would like to see Montreal get their team back, or at the very least Vancouver. Canada needs another MLB team.
Montreal supported the Expos for years but when the owners had very shallow pockets (Montreal is the 7th largest in NA FFS), 20 of 162 games on TV and a pathetic stadium. No wonder the fans stopped showing up in the last decade.

Oh did I mention the 1994 strike and the 2003 call-ups refusal?

I mean imagine an NHL or MLB team having 80% of its games not broadcasted on TV, who the **** would care? (Remember Chicago and the Blackhawks for 15-20 years?)

Get a clue people.

Montreal is the 7th largest market in NA, the 2nd largest market in Canada by far and a rich baseball history. If a downtown stadium is built and the team isn't cheap...they will attract crowds. (P.S Look at the CFL's Alouettes for an example)

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10-20-2011, 02:36 PM
  #266
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Montreal supported the Expos for years but when the owners had very shallow pockets (Montreal is the 7th largest in NA FFS), 20 of 162 games on TV and a pathetic stadium. No wonder the fans stopped showing up in the last decade.

Oh did I mention the 1994 strike and the 2003 call-ups refusal?

I mean imagine an NHL or MLB team having 80% of its games not broadcasted on TV, who the **** would care? (Remember Chicago and the Blackhawks for 15-20 years?)

Get a clue people.

Montreal is the 7th largest market in NA, the 2nd largest market in Canada by far and a rich baseball history. If a downtown stadium is built and the team isn't cheap...they will attract crowds. (P.S Look at the CFL's Alouettes for an example)
Which is why they should have another shot. The market is fine they just need competent ownership.

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