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The things I think after watching the capital game...

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10-21-2011, 05:20 AM
  #1
Reaper1097
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The things I think after watching the capital game...

I thnink that Couturier doesnt belong on the 4th line, especially if it is only to appease Hartnell or justify his salary. Couturier should be in the top 9 or sent back to juniors. Personally, I think that he has done enough to stick around for the entire season. But if they are gonna do that only to play him on the 4th line then I think they are wasting a year of his entry-level contract.

I think that Couturier is playing better and more importantly smarter then Hartnell. The flyers were crusing to 1st period intermission with a 1-0 lead when hartnell makes that ridiculous pass that becomes a turnover and then the tying goal. No way the capitals get that goal in the last minute without the mometum boost from the first goal, which we all know, is 100% hartnells fault. I dont think there is any chance that Couturier turns that puck over in that situation. no way, no how.

I think that Schenn had a good game and showed glimpses of what is to come which is exciting to see. He has great puck control, a few times i thought he was gonna lose it or turn it over and he some how retained possesion of it which was impressive. He is here to stay and will only get better and better.

I think Briere looks lost out there and has no chemistry with his current line mates. I know that it might take some time but I just dont get the feeling that it will click anytime soon. He just seems to zap when he should be zig if you know what I mean. Therefore, I think a line shake up is in the near future.

I think that Brzygalov had little to no shot to stop any of the goals. 1st goal was a deflection off of coburn. 2nd goal was a slam dunk by Ovechkin. 3rd goal was a deflection of of lilya. 4th goal was a deflection off of Talbot. 5th goal was a deflection off of Joel Ward (altough Bryz's turnover was at fault). Its very hard to fault a goalie on deflections for obvious reasons.

Anyway, back to the line shake-up, i think that the only way that all the players can get the ice time required is to move briere back to wing which i know isnt the best for him but I dont see any other way. I think that putting briere back with hartnell is a way to jump start the both of them (hopefully).

JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Hartnell-Schenn-Briere
Simmonds-Couturier-Voracek
Read-Talbot-Nodl/Shelley

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10-21-2011, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
I thnink that Couturier doesnt belong on the 4th line, especially if it is only to appease Hartnell or justify his salary. Couturier should be in the top 9 or sent back to juniors. Personally, I think that he has done enough to stick around for the entire season. But if they are gonna do that only to play him on the 4th line then I think they are wasting a year of his entry-level contract.

I think that Couturier is playing better and more importantly smarter then Hartnell. The flyers were crusing to 1st period intermission with a 1-0 lead when hartnell makes that ridiculous pass that becomes a turnover and then the tying goal. No way the capitals get that goal in the last minute without the mometum boost from the first goal, which we all know, is 100% hartnells fault. I dont think there is any chance that Couturier turns that puck over in that situation. no way, no how.

I think that Schenn had a good game and showed glimpses of what is to come which is exciting to see. He has great puck control, a few times i thought he was gonna lose it or turn it over and he some how retained possesion of it which was impressive. He is here to stay and will only get better and better.

I think Briere looks lost out there and has no chemistry with his current line mates. I know that it might take some time but I just dont get the feeling that it will click anytime soon. He just seems to zap when he should be zig if you know what I mean. Therefore, I think a line shake up is in the near future.

I think that Brzygalov had little to no shot to stop any of the goals. 1st goal was a deflection off of coburn. 2nd goal was a slam dunk by Ovechkin. 3rd goal was a deflection of of lilya. 4th goal was a deflection off of Talbot. 5th goal was a deflection off of Joel Ward (altough Bryz's turnover was at fault). Its very hard to fault a goalie on deflections for obvious reasons.

Anyway, back to the line shake-up, i think that the only way that all the players can get the ice time required is to move briere back to wing which i know isnt the best for him but I dont see any other way. I think that putting briere back with hartnell is a way to jump start the both of them (hopefully).

JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Hartnell-Schenn-Briere
Simmonds-Couturier-Voracek
Read-Talbot-Nodl/Shelley
I agree that he shouldn't be on the 4th line.. I think he had just around 10 minutes per game.. Before Schenn came up, he was averaging about 14 to 15 minutes a game.

The flyers also need to figure out something to do with Hartnell. He has looked like crap all year and is making really bad decisions out there all the time.

Schenn was probably one of our best forwards last night.

Briere had probably his better game out there last night. He needs time to build chemistry with his linemates. He will get it soon enough.

You cant really fault Bryzgalov for those goals since most were deflections.. But you can fault him for taking his time to get back to the crease before Ward's goal.

And i agree with the lines that you posted but it would look better with Shelley out of the lineup

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10-21-2011, 06:08 AM
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The Caps are the team to beat in the east, and maybe even the NHL. Losing badly to them early in the season may have been beneficial to the young players who may have been getting overconfident. Hartnell needs to be demoted to the 4th line though. He has been 10th best of our top 9 caliber players. Until he plays like 9th best he should be on the 4th line. Or the team could stop taking so many stupid penalties so that the 4th line could play more because while Talbot and Nodl may not be much of a scoring threat they are certainly generating a lot of chances.

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10-21-2011, 07:10 AM
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Briere and Hartnell have been awful this season. I'm not sure what to do with Hartnell, but Briere needs to be moved to wing or something because he has been totally worthless.

I didnt think they played as bad as the score ended up, but penalties continue to be an issue. That and bone headed passes that will end up in the back of your net against a team this good.

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10-21-2011, 07:22 AM
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Briere and Hartnell have been awful this season. I'm not sure what to do with Hartnell, but Briere needs to be moved to wing or something because he has been totally worthless.

I didnt think they played as bad as the score ended up, but penalties continue to be an issue. That and bone headed passes that will end up in the back of your net against a team this good.
Briere is good in positioning on ice, but needs someone else to create a play. He lost that setter in Leino. Hopefully, they will put him fast with another play maker; frankly, I would try him with Jagr.

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10-21-2011, 08:17 AM
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It wasnt pretty but it is one game. As we have seen last season the team to beat in October/November/December/ doesnt mean that you will be the team to beat in the playoffs. They need to stay out of the box.

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10-21-2011, 09:34 AM
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One thing that really sticks out about last night's game is that it seems Laviolette just doesn't trust his first year guys enough in this type of game. This should be the type of game where you roll the four lines and you ensure that your young guys like Couturier and Schenn get more than 10 and 11 minutes of ice time.

I'm really disappointed that Hartnell continues to get ice time after the bone headed play in the 1st. It just adds to why the Flyers need to get rid of him - those are the kinds of plays that 11 year veterans do not make, yet Hartnell continues to make those kinds of play and he gets rewarded with more ice time in a game like this. He should have never seen the ice in the 2nd period.

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10-21-2011, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
One thing that really sticks out about last night's game is that it seems Laviolette just doesn't trust his first year guys enough in this type of game. This should be the type of game where you roll the four lines and you ensure that your young guys like Couturier and Schenn get more than 10 and 11 minutes of ice time.

I'm really disappointed that Hartnell continues to get ice time after the bone headed play in the 1st. It just adds to why the Flyers need to get rid of him - those are the kinds of plays that 11 year veterans do not make, yet Hartnell continues to make those kinds of play and he gets rewarded with more ice time in a game like this. He should have never seen the ice in the 2nd period.
When Lavy is unsure of himself and the lines it's very painful to see the end results. Against Boston last year he was schooled badly...

This year is going to be a tough year for him IMO to nurture the team which is not exactly his forte. Somebody like Terry Murray is better at it. He has to massage a lot of egos and manage the ice time fairly otherwise he's going to have some sour players.

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10-21-2011, 09:43 AM
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I think it's time to move Briere to the wing. It's finally time.

Also Couturier needs to be a shutdown (third line) center on this team. We have no one else.

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10-21-2011, 09:52 AM
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Flyers need to make a trade cause there is not enough ice time for everyone. I like Hartnell but there is simply no ice time for him. Everyone says it's still early and that he will be 20 goal scorer again but i dont see him going on a hot streak w/out getting any pp time and avg 12 minutes per game. I really didn't like ice time distribution as a whole last night. Couturier only got 10 minutes, Schenn got 12 (I guess it's ok since it was his first game this year but I still thought he was one of our better forwards last night), JVR w/ 12 min, Jagr w/ 13 & Roo w/ 16 while Briere had 20, Simmonds had 18 and Read w/ over 21. I don't see a line shuffle really helping and since I think the Flyers will be really really really good in a few years I think they should unload some people for picks/prospects. I know our D will be trash in a couple yrs so as much as I hate to say it but I think this time should be spent developing the young guys (means more ice for JVR, Schenn, Couturier, G and Jake) and building a younger D for the future. In the meanwhile stat competitive and you never know they could hit a hot streak in the playoffs. I'm in no way "giving up" or panicking these are just my two cents

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10-21-2011, 10:06 AM
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When Lavy is unsure of himself and the lines it's very painful to see the end results. Against Boston last year he was schooled badly...

This year is going to be a tough year for him IMO to nurture the team which is not exactly his forte. Somebody like Terry Murray is better at it. He has to massage a lot of egos and manage the ice time fairly otherwise he's going to have some sour players.
Biggest mistake the Flyers ever made was firing Terry Murray the first time around and then letting him go to Los Angeles during his second stint. He would have been terrific for this club.

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10-21-2011, 10:19 AM
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Biggest mistake the Flyers ever made was firing Terry Murray the first time around and then letting him go to Los Angeles during his second stint. He would have been terrific for this club.
Yeah I totally agree. I feel like if Lavy's system is not executed perfectly it will be a long night for our D and goalie. I feel like a less agressive system would be better for this group w/ the loss of offense (not saying they will struggle to score this yr or anything) and the stacked D core & current goaltending situation. Every team should play to it's strengths that's all.


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10-21-2011, 10:41 AM
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Hartnell has been a solid, if overpaid player. But there's no room for him.

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10-21-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Pwnz0rs View Post
You cant really fault Bryzgalov for those goals since most were deflections.. But you can fault him for taking his time to get back to the crease before Ward's goal.
Um? He was in the crease, if anything he was a little deep in the crease.

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10-21-2011, 11:13 AM
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Hmm, I guess I saw things a little differently from last nights game.


First, Schenn looks damned good. I mean, WOW, this kid can play. He did NOT look like a rookie, he looked like a 5-6 year vet out there. He definitley took control of the 3rd line from the 1st shift he took with them. I REALLY liked what I saw from him.

Second, with Schenn centering Voracek and Hartnell (Read was up with Briere) we were running with 3 very good offensive lines, even better than we had last year. I didn't think it was possible to have MORE depth than we've had in the past 3 seasons but I certainly think we do this season.

Third, with a "4th" line of Talbot-Couturier-Nodl, I saw then as essentially our "shut-down" line. Talbot IS essentially just a shut-down guy and Nodl certainly has that ability too and we all know just how good Couturier is so why NOT run them out there as a shut-down line???

Forth, Briere just can't and shouldn't be moved from center right now. If anything we should move Hartnell back up to his wing. It's been just 6 games now and we made a whole lot of changes this off season. It's going to take a little time for everything to gel together and for things to settle down. I've been on the "trade Hartnell" bandwagon (leading it some may say, lol) but after seeing us being able ot role 4 complete lines out there I'd rather keep him at this point. Also, in addition to Briere needing to say at center, I think that both Schenn and Couturier need to stay at center too.

Last, I kind of like the idea of having Couturier on the 4th line. I think it was GKJ who said that playing him on the 4th line and on the PK would help to keep his minutes down and hopefuly help to either prevent or lessen the "wall" that rookies hit somewhere around February. Remember, we are a VERY young team now and if we can spread the minutes around and not burn guys out then I believe we will be better in the long run for it. If we over-burden and burn out Schenn, Couturier and Read then we will be nothing more than a 2 line team come playoff time and we'd be easily shut down IMO.

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10-21-2011, 11:27 AM
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Hmm, I guess I saw things a little differently from last nights game.


First, Schenn looks damned good. I mean, WOW, this kid can play. He did NOT look like a rookie, he looked like a 5-6 year vet out there. He definitley took control of the 3rd line from the 1st shift he took with them. I REALLY liked what I saw from him.

Second, with Schenn centering Voracek and Hartnell (Read was up with Briere) we were running with 3 very good offensive lines, even better than we had last year. I didn't think it was possible to have MORE depth than we've had in the past 3 seasons but I certainly think we do this season.

Third, with a "4th" line of Talbot-Couturier-Nodl, I saw then as essentially our "shut-down" line. Talbot IS essentially just a shut-down guy and Nodl certainly has that ability too and we all know just how good Couturier is so why NOT run them out there as a shut-down line???

Forth, Briere just can't and shouldn't be moved from center right now. If anything we should move Hartnell back up to his wing. It's been just 6 games now and we made a whole lot of changes this off season. It's going to take a little time for everything to gel together and for things to settle down. I've been on the "trade Hartnell" bandwagon (leading it some may say, lol) but after seeing us being able ot role 4 complete lines out there I'd rather keep him at this point. Also, in addition to Briere needing to say at center, I think that both Schenn and Couturier need to stay at center too.

Last, I kind of like the idea of having Couturier on the 4th line. I think it was GKJ who said that playing him on the 4th line and on the PK would help to keep his minutes down and hopefuly help to either prevent or lessen the "wall" that rookies hit somewhere around February. Remember, we are a VERY young team now and if we can spread the minutes around and not burn guys out then I believe we will be better in the long run for it. If we over-burden and burn out Schenn, Couturier and Read then we will be nothing more than a 2 line team come playoff time and we'd be easily shut down IMO.
Explain to me the following:
Last night, Schenn went 0-0-0 and -3 on a 3rd offensive line playing 13 minutes.
Couturier went 1-0-1 with a +/- of 0 on the 4th "shutdown" line against one of the best teams in the NHL and you point out that Scehnn should center 3rd line and Couturier 4th line?

Sorry but that is bull and makes no sense.

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10-21-2011, 11:39 AM
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Explain to me the following:
Last night, Schenn went 0-0-0 and -3 on a 3rd offensive line playing 13 minutes.
Couturier went 1-0-1 with a +/- of 0 on the 4th "shutdown" line against one of the best teams in the NHL and you point out that Scehnn should center 3rd line and Couturier 4th line?

Sorry but that is bull and makes no sense.
So you're blaming those 3 goals on Schenn?

+/- is the worst stat available to use for any kind of an argument.

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10-21-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by chsb View Post
Explain to me the following:
Last night, Schenn went 0-0-0 and -3 on a 3rd offensive line playing 13 minutes.
Couturier went 1-0-1 with a +/- of 0 on the 4th "shutdown" line against one of the best teams in the NHL and you point out that Scehnn should center 3rd line and Couturier 4th line?

Sorry but that is bull and makes no sense.

Did you even read what I said or not??? I think it was pretty CLEAR that Couturier WAS on the shut-down line even last night. What the hell do you think Talbot was brought in here to do??? It certainly wasn't to just play on the 4th line instead of Shelly. He was brought in because of his defensive play, hence him playing on the PK. Playing him on the shutdoen line with Couturier makes the MOST sense from a team make-up POV. Just because we role out 3 scoring lines and our shutdown line is technically our 4th line doesn't negate it from being a shutdown line.

Also, you are going to blame Schenn for being a -3 because of stupid plays like what Hartnell did and deflections???? Those same exact things would have happened had Couturier been on the "3rd line" and Schenn on the 4th line. Couturier is better than Schenn defensively (from what we've seen right now) but overall, Schenn IS the better player.

Couturier most likely WILL hit a wall at some point this season and it's far more likely that Schenn will NOT.

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10-21-2011, 11:46 AM
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Did you even read what I said or not??? I think it was pretty CLEAR that Couturier WAS on the shut-down line even last night. What the hell do you think Talbot was brought in here to do??? It certainly wasn't to just play on the 4th line instead of Shelly. He was brought in because of his defensive play, hence him playing on the PK. Playing him on the shutdoen line with Couturier makes the MOST sense from a team make-up POV. Just because we role out 3 scoring lines and our shutdown line is technically our 4th line doesn't negate it from being a shutdown line.

Also, you are going to blame Schenn for being a -3 because of stupid plays like what Hartnell did and deflections???? Those same exact things would have happened had Couturier been on the "3rd line" and Schenn on the 4th line. Couturier is better than Schenn defensively (from what we've seen right now) but overall, Schenn IS the better player.

Couturier most likely WILL hit a wall at some point this season and it's far more likely that Schenn will NOT.
WHY?

Why do you see Couturier hitting a wall this season and Schenn not?
Couturier is more used to a lenghty gruelling and grinding season than Scehnn is.
He went to the Mem Cup at 16 YO.

Couturier also played with Hartnell so far and was never in the minus stat.
How come Schenn was -3 after 1 game playing with Hartnell?

You seem to have a crunch....I can respect it but give me logical reasons.

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10-21-2011, 11:48 AM
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WHY?

Why do you see Couturier hitting a wall this season and Schenn not?
Couturier is more used to a lenghty gruelling and grinding season than Scehnn is.
He went to the Mem Cup at 16 YO.

Couturier also played with Hartnell so far and was never in the minus stat.
How come Schenn was -3 after 1 game playing with Hartnell?

You seem to have a crunch....I can respect it but give me logical reasons.
What?

Schenn has played a full AHL season. Courturier hasn't..he's played between 58-68 games at a lower level. Schenn is going to be more prepared for a lengthy season.

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10-21-2011, 11:50 AM
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Can somebody please tell me where this proverbial WALL is located so I can hire somebody to take a wrecking ball to it....

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10-21-2011, 11:51 AM
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Can somebody please tell me where this proverbial WALL is located so I can hire somebody to take a wrecking ball to it....
Well, for JVR I think it was somewhere around 20 games. Our 20th game is in Philly at 7PM, so get your blasting charges ready.

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10-21-2011, 11:51 AM
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So you're blaming those 3 goals on Schenn?

+/- is the worst stat available to use for any kind of an argument.
Maybe for 1 game, but let's talk back about this after 10 games or so.

Couturier is one of the top-3 so far in +/- and is in the top-8 pointwise.

But.....let's play him 4th line in the hope that the 3rd line starts clicking offensively.

I have all the respect for Schenn, but the hype is fading right now when we see what is going on the ice, and that is where it counts.

Also Couturier can play wing and I just don't see the use of playing him 4th line.

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10-21-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What?

Schenn has played a full AHL season. Courturier hasn't..he's played between 58-68 games at a lower level. Schenn is going to be more prepared for a lengthy season.
At 17 YO, Couturier played 68 regular games, 14 playoff games...so it adds up to 82games.
Last year he had mono and I hope you know what it means.

At 16 YO, he played 58 regular games, 18 playoff games plus the Mem Cup torunament.

He can be a beast out there.
If you watch him play, he can last pretty long.

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10-21-2011, 12:01 PM
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At 17 YO, Couturier played 68 regular games, 14 playoff games...so it adds up to 82games.
Last year he had mono and I hope you know what it means.

At 16 YO, he played 58 regular games, 18 playoff games plus the Mem Cup torunament.

He can be a beast out there.
If you watch him play, he can last pretty long.
At a lower level. He's against much tougher, larger, and faster players now. That matters. Schenn has played at a level closer to the NHL than Couturier has.

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