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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

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Old
10-21-2011, 01:07 PM
  #101
Brodie
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Guys, it's not going to be said again... game by game attendance reports are unnecessary and will be deleted.

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10-21-2011, 01:15 PM
  #102
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Does anyone know what the status is of the civil suit; NHL vs. Jerry Moyes?. Another thread here ("Gretzky; not looking for work") reminded me that has yet to be resolved, just how much the final settlement of the leagues $62.5M claim they might hope to receive; and of course whether or not any of that might be applied to paying down their LOC & thus further discounting the sale price on the team?.

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10-21-2011, 05:58 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Does anyone know what the status is of the civil suit; NHL vs. Jerry Moyes?. Another thread here ("Gretzky; not looking for work") reminded me that has yet to be resolved, just how much the final settlement of the leagues $62.5M claim they might hope to receive; and of course whether or not any of that might be applied to paying down their LOC & thus further discounting the sale price on the team?.
Follow the bouncing civil complaint…

March 05, 2010
Compliant filed: National Hockey League v. Moyes et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 10-03032.

May 10, 2010
NY District Judge P. Kevin Castel rules in favor of motion by Moyes that the case should be moved to Arizona. (removal jurisdiction - 28 U.S.C. § 1334(b) // Pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1404(a), the Southern District of New York transferred this case to the District of Arizona)

September 15, 2010
District Judge G. Murray Snow transfers the case from US District Court – Arizona to Bankruptcy Court, ruling the Bankruptcy Court has jurisdiction to decide any current or pending matters. (“Referral to the Bankruptcy Court, therefore, would allow the (US District) Court and the parties to take advantage of the Bankruptcy Court’s expertise, with this Court ultimately retaining the ability to issue a final judgment if required.”)

February 24, 2011
Bankruptcy court order Confirming 2nd Amended Chapter 11 plan. Plan includes granting Liquidation Trustee the exclusive authority to commence, continue, or settle Litigation Claims including, without limitation, any Avoidance Actions or Litigation Claims against Jerry Moyes, Vicki Moyes, the Jerry and Vicki Moyes Family Trust, Jennings Strouss & Salmon, and Wayne Gretzky.

May 10, 2011
Hearing was set on the matter for 5/10/11 @ 1:30 p.m.

I didnt see any post-hearing orders filed in the docket, so the logical assumption is that the complaint by the NHL against Moyes still resides with the Liquidation Trustee. The US District courts kicking this over is not a strong indication that the NHL will be getting that $62MM.

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Old
10-21-2011, 06:27 PM
  #104
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A lot are. Salaries are paid in USD. Revenues come in at the local currency. As we approach a 10% difference, US teams will have a competitive advantage.
Cmon now 18000 people a night paying 85$ in canadian money will always beat 8000 a night paying 25$ Us in phoenix

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10-21-2011, 06:34 PM
  #105
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TORONTO (Dow Jones)--The Canadian dollar rose to within a cent of parity against the U.S. dollar Friday on hopes for a solution to euro zone's debt woes ahead of a high-stakes European Union summit over the weekend.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...21-713743.html

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Old
10-21-2011, 06:41 PM
  #106
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Follow the bouncing civil complaint...
Thanks CF. Looks like we've got some more bouncing to watch out for on that front.

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10-21-2011, 09:19 PM
  #107
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Thanks CF. Looks like we've got some more bouncing to watch out for on that front.
I think you'll discover that the courts in Arizona move in mysterious ways my friend.

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10-21-2011, 09:41 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Does anyone know what the status is of the civil suit; NHL vs. Jerry Moyes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I didnt see any post-hearing orders filed in the docket, so the logical assumption is that the complaint by the NHL against Moyes still resides with the Liquidation Trustee. The US District courts kicking this over is not a strong indication that the NHL will be getting that $62MM.
The old adage about getting blood from a stone will likely come to play when all is said and done.

Corporate bankruptcy is getting more frequent in the U.S. and as such, sympathy for those looking to make claim on the carcasses is nowhere to be found.

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Old
10-21-2011, 09:53 PM
  #109
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I think you'll discover that the courts in Arizona move in mysterious ways my friend.
Thats for sure. Any idea when the NHL vs. Moyes might get wrapped up or is at the leisure of the Trustee without time constraints?.

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Guys, it's not going to be said again...
Uh oh. New Sheriff in Town... whats that?. You want 50 gallons of red paint?. What the Hell for?.

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Old
10-21-2011, 11:54 PM
  #110
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i've heard that reinsdorf is back again....heard it from scott morrison on cknw...

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Old
10-22-2011, 12:01 AM
  #111
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i've heard that reinsdorf is back again....heard it from scott morrison on cknw...
Did he really ever leave? or is he the front runner and has Jameson's bid been pushed to the side?

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10-22-2011, 02:13 AM
  #112
Brodie
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This Eurozone deal will just be a band-aid like all the others.


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Uh oh. New Sheriff in Town... whats that?. You want 50 gallons of red paint?. What the Hell for?.

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Old
10-22-2011, 05:48 AM
  #113
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To my country's credit, of all the "advanced" countries in the world, we came thru this recession/depression the most unscathed.

Banks are GREAT. Gold and oil are thru the roof. Unemployment is at 7.1%. We "MADE IT 7". Soon to "MAKE IT 8".

We are the little country that could.

Yes, the great economic stewardship of Lord Harper led us through the depths of the Great Recession. Canada, thy country, is tops in the industrialized world (except for Australia, Austria, Luxembourg, Germany, Denmark, and South Korea).


Last edited by htpwn: 10-22-2011 at 05:58 AM.
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Old
10-22-2011, 07:17 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
The old adage about getting blood from a stone will likely come to play when all is said and done.

Corporate bankruptcy is getting more frequent in the U.S. and as such, sympathy for those looking to make claim on the carcasses is nowhere to be found.
While most of the damages the NHL is seeking strike me as unlikely to happen I still think there's a good chance Moyes ends up paying Gretzky his owed money and the NHL gets the personal guarantee amount. Those agreements were signed directly with Moyes the individual, who has not personally filed for bankruptcy.

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10-22-2011, 09:13 AM
  #115
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Did he really ever leave? or is he the front runner and has Jameson's bid been pushed to the side?
I don't think he's ever in, I think he's just does it for the lulz....

"I'm going to save your team. No I'm not. I'm going to save your team. No I'm not. I'm going to save your team...."

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10-22-2011, 11:05 AM
  #116
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I don't think he's ever in, I think he's just does it for the lulz....

"I'm going to save your team. No I'm not. I'm going to save your team. No I'm not. I'm going to save your team...."
YEPPP! That's the way I see it.

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10-22-2011, 12:04 PM
  #117
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Excuse my ignorance, but has anything actually happened here since May? Other than Reinsdorf changing his mind every other day about whether he feels like dealing with this?

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10-22-2011, 01:54 PM
  #118
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Yes, the great economic stewardship of Lord Harper led us through the depths of the Great Recession. Canada, thy country, is tops in the industrialized world (except for Australia, Austria, Luxembourg, Germany, Denmark, and South Korea).

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Old
10-22-2011, 02:00 PM
  #119
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Old
10-22-2011, 02:02 PM
  #120
Killion
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
While most of the damages the NHL is seeking strike me as unlikely to happen I still think there's a good chance Moyes ends up paying Gretzky his owed money and the NHL gets the personal guarantee amount. Those agreements were signed directly with Moyes the individual, who has not personally filed for bankruptcy.
Gretzky being owed $8.5M & Moyes signing personal guarantee's that have been ramped up to (app.) $53.5M for a total claim of $62.5M. Moyes floated close to $700M+ on a stock offering last year & if he's found to be in breach of the personal guarantee's he signed with the league in 2008, along with the franchise agreement itself, it would seem to me that this isnt exactly a case of trying to get "Blood from a Stone" as another poster so aptly put it. Quite the contrary, Im thinking "There Will be Blood". That being said, as CasualFan pointed out, that the District Court basically punted without call for any further requirements pursuant to the last hearing earlier this month, the ball on this ones' breaking records for "hangin" in terms of air-time.

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Excuse my ignorance, but has anything actually happened here since May? Other than Reinsdorf changing his mind every other day about whether he feels like dealing with this?
Several things, much of it subtle. As you know, Hulsizer pulled out last May, the league signing a 10yr AMUL with the COG renewable annually without penalty should they decide to relocate the franchise. Separately, for 2011-12, and to be voted on & approved annually thereafter by the COG, a $25M "Arena Management Fee" to be paid to the NHL or if the league sells & assigns the AMUL to Reinsdorf or Jamison. Alternatively, the latter two could deal directly with Glendale pre or post acquisition in working out an AMULA.

It has been confirmed by multiple, reliable sources throughout the summer & fall that yes, Greg Jamison of San Jose leads a group of Investors who reportedly have raised somewhere around $400M. Further, it was confirmed that he was in fact forced out of San Jose' last October, however for various reasons, still sat on the leagues powerful Executive Committee & retained the position as the Sharks designate on the BOG's, a position which recently expired... John Kaites meanwhile appears to have taken a lead role with the Reinsdorfs, Jerry & Michael, along with a rumored 2-3 other minority partners in taking another run at the team, again, confirmed by multiple reputable media sources.

Contemporaneously, Ellmans backers in Westgate pulled the plug pushing the development into foreclosure. iStar Financial, a publicly traded real estate development firm was/is owed $96M & seized Westgate; Credit Suisse a whopping $500M+ (on other Ellman deals in addition to Westgate) and seized vacant land adjacent to the mall & Glendale Arena earmarked for development. A public auction for the vacant land is planned (no date set that Im aware of); the auction for Westgate closed in mid-September when no one bid iStars reserve of $40M. If so inclined, GJ/JR could re-enjoin the development with the franchise now or, let iStar & Credit Suisse "dangle" & buy the entire ranch including the franchise for a song, as its very likely the NHL will be offering a deep discount (using TNSE's $60M relo fee to pay-down their LOC) and possibly terms whereby Jamison or Reinsdorf assumes the leagues LOC with Bank America. Any number of possibilities/creative ways to get that done.

Phoenix/Glendale has won the 2015 SuperBowl. Tanger Discount Superstores is scouting Westgate for a massive 70+ store mall. The nearby air base is about to receive a fat contract from the feds. If it ever see's the light of day, the Tohono's Indian Bands' plans could deliver hundreds of millions to Westgate & Glendale. The Bidwells' have plans for a massive development adjacent to Westgate called Sportsmans Park, golf course, single family homes, condo's, shopping, the works. As another poster stated some time ago, little wonder a couple of Wise Old Silverbacks like JR/GJ are circling, quietly and out of view.

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Old
10-22-2011, 02:02 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by sawchuk1971 View Post
i've heard that reinsdorf is back again....heard it from scott morrison on cknw...
I mentioned this before. John Shannon, in an interview, implied that :

i) the NHL is going to try and find an owner by Christmas;
ii) if they can't, JR is waiting in the wings;
iii) JR has agreed to be the fallback guy, in case no one else steps up, but he won't pay anywhere near what the NHL wants. He will run the team and cover its losses for X number of years and the team will cost him next to nothing.

Now, John Shannon has been wrong before. Lots of times. And people have asked why the NHL would give the team to JR when a group in Quebec would buy the team tomorrow for $200M. That I don't know.

However, John Shannon did work for the NHL head office for years and is well connected so...

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10-22-2011, 02:19 PM
  #122
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John Shannon did work for the NHL head office for years and is well connected so...
That "theory" makes sense, and ya, Shannons' been wrong in the past but generally has a pretty good batting average. Been around since 77, starting as a "Runner" for HNIC at the Gardens while attending Ryerson. Went on to become Executive Producer, doing same with a number of other sports & networks including the NHL itself.... very likely the NHL's working with Jamison on a Plan 'A'; if that fails, fallback's a Plan 'B' with Reinsdorf.

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10-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #123
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That "theory" makes sense, and ya, Shannons' been wrong in the past but generally has a pretty good batting average. Been around since 77, starting as a "Runner" for HNIC at the Gardens while attending Ryerson. Went on to become Executive Producer, doing same with a number of other sports & networks including the NHL itself.... very likely the NHL's working with Jamison on a Plan 'A'; if that fails, fallback's a Plan 'B' with Reinsdorf.
I think the NHL prefers JR, in a strange way, because he does NOT have any interest in owning an NHL team. He would buy the Coyotes for the community. And, if it didn't work out after 5 years, he would most likely just walk away - not try and relocate the team.

As for QC, I don't believe they would be getting the money they need for the arena without a (behind close doors) promise of a NHL team down the road. My guess, it will be expansion team for a cool $200M with another team for Southern Ontario...

I say Toronto. Killion says "NO!!!"

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10-22-2011, 03:01 PM
  #124
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So then my question is, if someone steps in and keeps the Coyotes in Glendale, whoever it may be, who makes money off the Coyotes and how?

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10-22-2011, 03:07 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I think the NHL prefers JR, in a strange way, because he does NOT have any interest in owning an NHL team. He would buy the Coyotes for the community. And, if it didn't work out after 5 years, he would most likely just walk away - not try and relocate the team.

As for QC, I don't believe they would be getting the money they need for the arena without a (behind close doors) promise of a NHL team down the road. My guess, it will be expansion team for a cool $200M with another team for Southern Ontario...

I say Toronto. Killion says "NO!!!"
Not so sure Im agreeing with your Police work there Kevy. As a trained Tax Accountant, Jerry Reinsdorf doesnt do anything for the "community" unless its a specific charity & or benefit event that he can write-off on his returns. Dont think the COG, State of Arizona, the IRS, Justice Department & FBI would take to kindly to seeing the capital costs to purchase the Coyotes and all 41 home games at the job claimed as deductibles Old Bean.... as for just "walking away". Wut?!!! Why would he do that when he could sell the asset to wherever for $100M, $150M or $200M+?. He's got a son, Michael, who is an avid hockey fan, intelligent and astute marketing, management & ownership executive. This purchase would be for the Lad . That'd be the extent of Jerrys "benevolence" in the entire matter. Estate planning 101. Mebbe pickup Westgate & the surrounding lands while he's at it.

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