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Old
10-21-2011, 12:01 PM
  #101
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Personally I hope he has a career year since he finally has a top flight passer and the fact that he should dedicate it to his 2 best friends of Boogey and Demitra (RIP).

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10-21-2011, 12:29 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
So lets get this straight:

-Gaborik lied to the media when he said he was healthy and not playing through an injury at the end of the season
-Gaborik's questionable skating in games last season was the result of his shoulder
-The coaching staff knowingly criticized the player's skating even though their medical trainer would have fully informed them of Gaborik's health and status

I guess you extend Sean Avery status to Gaborik now too huh? Player is never allowed to be criticized for anything... Oh and Gaborik never needed a #1 Center before right? So why did we just go out and commit 9 years to Richards if we didn't need a #1 Center for him? Oh and congratulations, your inability to have civil discussions with people has earned you a spot on my ignore list. I won't be able to view your reply. Have fun!
Obviously wolf is another of the many posters on here who takes opposing viewpoints personally and gets offended by everything. That's shocking. But for anyone who was following the discussion and cares...

1. Why would Gaborik blame the injury if he was playing? What player actually does that? If he had done that you'd be the first guy calling him out for using the injury as an excuse for his poor play. Guys with any integrity don't blame being hurt for their play if they're in the lineup.

2. His "questionable skating" is a little subjective. But yeah, when you're not a 100% you play tentative. I said that in my post above. The guy was playing hurt. The fact that some people can't put two and two together is mind boggling. He SEPARATED HIS SHOOTING SHOULDER. Are you joking? A FREAKING SEPARATED SHOULDER for a guy who needs that more than anything. Yeah, I'm sure he was just a-okay when he came back two weeks later. Right.

3. Who doesn't Torts criticize other than Ryan Callahan? The fact that your defense of Gabby not being hurt is that Torts said he needs to skate better is ridiculous. What the hell are you even trying to say? I said he was timid because of not being 100%. That equates to not engaging physically as much and not flying to places to get pucks where you know you're going to get drilled. Again, logic, common sense. It always seems the people who like to argue with me don't have any of that.

As for the last part...seriously? Your first comment basically inferred that Gabby has started this way and Richards is the reason. Sure Richie is going to help, that's obvious. But the comment you're making here about "oh why did they go out and get a center then" is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. The guy has put up HUGE numbers his whole career with no one. Don't you think the idea of putting a guy who is legit next to him would be a pretty damn exciting proposition? Yeahhhh. You're incredible.

I've criticized Gaborik plenty. Just because I'm defending him about something specific and that's what we happen to be having a conversation about doesn't mean otherwise.

I swear, I have some of the craziest arguments with my friends about sports every day. It's fun. We all disagree about things and we're all passionate about it.

The fact that there's so many little girls around here is embarrassing to me.


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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I and many of my friends agree with you 100%. Nobody is saying he wasn't injured, it just appeared to a lot of us that he was mailing it in for the majority of last season. He looks a lot more motivated and engaged this year and my only hope is that he continues to do so as well as stay healthy all year. He's the only legitimate goal scorer we have and thus we can not afford to have him become disinterested like last season.
Again, tepid play usually results from not being 100%. To say that you don't buy the him being hurt thing, and then your justification for that being that he didn't look engaged, is basically an oxymoron.


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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I'm with you pal. I can't stomach these hf posters/rangers fans who get their panties all bunched up when you criticize a player.
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I have seen you bring this up a few times now (bold), I don't recall Torts making an excuse for himself. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I was wondering if you had any basis for that?

Also, I specifically remember Torts saying Rozsival, Prospal, Drury and a few other players were hurt last season alone, and using that to justify why they may have been getting limited ice time or not playing well.
It's very rare that we see Torts ever take the blame for things. He's always pretty quick to explain what a player did wrong and all that. He's big on his accountability but he never stops and says, I'm the coach, I'm the one who is responsible for this. He's been irritated with the penalties but it's always about the guys. Are they the ones on the ice taking them? Obvoiusly. But you never hear him take blame. He threw Gabby under the bus, he's always got little quips about guys (most recently Wolski). All that is stuff that Torts uses to put it on them and not him.

Now I will say this, I don't think Torts is a coach who takes credit away from his players when they succeed. He definitely says it's all them. But he's definitely not a guy who ever acknowledges his role in things.

It's almost as if he talks like he's a non-factor in everything.

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10-21-2011, 12:40 PM
  #103
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Gaborik has been amazing this season so far. Him and Richards have some great chemistry going on that will continue to get better.

Watching them talk and discuss the game yesterday make me smile a bit, not going to lie These two will be linemates and best friends for at least the next 3 years till Gaboriks contract is up.

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10-21-2011, 12:42 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
It's very rare that we see Torts ever take the blame for things. He's always pretty quick to explain what a player did wrong and all that. He's big on his accountability but he never stops and says, I'm the coach, I'm the one who is responsible for this. He's been irritated with the penalties but it's always about the guys. Are they the ones on the ice taking them? Obvoiusly. But you never hear him take blame. He threw Gabby under the bus, he's always got little quips about guys (most recently Wolski). All that is stuff that Torts uses to put it on them and not him.

Now I will say this, I don't think Torts is a coach who takes credit away from his players when they succeed. He definitely says it's all them. But he's definitely not a guy who ever acknowledges his role in things.

It's almost as if he talks like he's a non-factor in everything.
That's a fair point but who is to say the players are following what he is saying? He can say "don't take offensive zone penalties" all he wants but if Prust comes out and holds someones stick below the opposing goal-line there isn't much he can do.

It would be nice for him to possibly address the PP and say, "maybe we, as coaches, need to try something differently", but when it comes to game-day, most of the time, it is up to the players to get the job done and follow through on the game-plan.

I guess I am of the opinion that when we see the team play well, they are following Torts' game-plan to a 'T', but its the inconsistency from game-to-game that lies with the players. They know how to play the system well, because we have seen it, but they don't bring it every game.

It's still an interesting take though. There are definitely some coaches who blame themselves to keep their players out of the spotlight. Torts is definitely not one of those.

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10-21-2011, 12:46 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
It's very rare that we see Torts ever take the blame for things. He's always pretty quick to explain what a player did wrong and all that. He's big on his accountability but he never stops and says, I'm the coach, I'm the one who is responsible for this. He's been irritated with the penalties but it's always about the guys. Are they the ones on the ice taking them? Obvoiusly. But you never hear him take blame. He threw Gabby under the bus, he's always got little quips about guys (most recently Wolski). All that is stuff that Torts uses to put it on them and not him.

Now I will say this, I don't think Torts is a coach who takes credit away from his players when they succeed. He definitely says it's all them. But he's definitely not a guy who ever acknowledges his role in things.

It's almost as if he talks like he's a non-factor in everything.
Im not going to comment on everything you said, but that is just false. Torts takes the blame a lot of the time when things arent going well. Yes he calls out other players as he should, but to say he doesn't take blame is just wrong and not true.

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10-21-2011, 12:46 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mike1983 View Post
Gaborik has been amazing this season so far. Him and Richards have some great chemistry going on that will continue to get better.

Watching them talk and discuss the game yesterday make me smile a bit, not going to lie These two will be linemates and best friends for at least the next 3 years till Gaboriks contract is up.
I'm pretty sure Gaborik hasn't been amazing and he hasn't had great chemistry yet with Richards.

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10-21-2011, 12:54 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
I'm pretty sure Gaborik hasn't been amazing and he hasn't had great chemistry yet with Richards.
Goals in 4 out of the 5 games we've played isnt amazing? I think it is. With that type of pace he'd have 70 goals on the season. He's already got like 17% of his total from last season

The chemistry is there, maybe amazing isnt the word, but its showing glimpses.

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10-21-2011, 01:05 PM
  #108
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Gaboriks compete level is finally where it should have been all along.

It is really exciting to watch him when he is on his game. Hopefully he keeps it up

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10-21-2011, 01:12 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Mike1983 View Post
Goals in 4 out of the 5 games we've played isnt amazing? I think it is. With that type of pace he'd have 70 goals on the season. He's already got like 17% of his total from last season

The chemistry is there, maybe amazing isnt the word, but its showing glimpses.
My name is MSG the place to be...and I could not care less about goals/assists/points.

His goal against the Islanders was an impressive play because he saw the opening for the breakaway and calmly converted the goal. The other three goals are no more impessive to me than about 1000 other plays that have been made by a Ranger in the first five games.

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10-21-2011, 01:13 PM
  #110
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Last year was last year. It's best forgotten. I think Gaborick is doing a good job so far. He's back to being the player he was before last year. I can't make much sense out of some of the stuff in this thread. It would all seem pretty irrelevant in light of present results. He's skating and playing with intensity and purpose. I like what I see so far. A complete 180 degree turn from last year for reasons I could care less about.

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10-21-2011, 01:23 PM
  #111
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The fact is that his shot just wasn't there last year. I don't care if its because he was injured or because he didn't care or whatever- but so far this year, the real Gabby is back.

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10-21-2011, 01:33 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
The fact is that his shot just wasn't there last year. I don't care if its because he was injured or because he didn't care or whatever- but so far this year, the real Gabby is back.
He's still unable to get off his shot except for last night on a powerplay where he was uncontested. #crazypills

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10-21-2011, 01:37 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
He's still unable to get off his shot except for last night on a powerplay where he was uncontested. #crazypills
he had 8 shots on goal....he's 6th in the NHL in shots on goal....tied for 7th in total goals. youre seriously going to complain about him?

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10-21-2011, 01:45 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
he had 8 shots on goal....he's 6th in the NHL in shots on goal....tied for 7th in total goals. youre seriously going to complain about him?
He doesn't do it for me. I can point to many moments where I shake my head at him making too soft a play. It irks me, sorry bro.

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10-21-2011, 01:48 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
He doesn't do it for me. I can point to many moments where I shake my head at him making too soft a play. It irks me, sorry bro.
Ah yes, the typical North American hockey mentality of "if he isn't a physical player, he's not good enough no matter what."

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10-21-2011, 02:01 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
That's a fair point but who is to say the players are following what he is saying? He can say "don't take offensive zone penalties" all he wants but if Prust comes out and holds someones stick below the opposing goal-line there isn't much he can do.

It would be nice for him to possibly address the PP and say, "maybe we, as coaches, need to try something differently", but when it comes to game-day, most of the time, it is up to the players to get the job done and follow through on the game-plan.

I guess I am of the opinion that when we see the team play well, they are following Torts' game-plan to a 'T', but its the inconsistency from game-to-game that lies with the players. They know how to play the system well, because we have seen it, but they don't bring it every game.

It's still an interesting take though. There are definitely some coaches who blame themselves to keep their players out of the spotlight. Torts is definitely not one of those.
There have just been some pretty poignant moments during his tenure here that have really rubbed me the wrong way. Honestly the worst one IMO was the Gaborik thing after the Flyers game. I'm not going to sit here and act like Gabby was good in that game, but for a coach to come out and say what he did about him, after he carried that team to that point was embarrassing to me. If I was Gabby I would've been pretty hurt by that.

When Torts is calm and thinking rationally I think he's a pretty smart guy. I don't know what it is. Maybe he gets too emotional about certain things and he loses it. I don't know. But there are too many times he says or does things that just leave me scratching my head.

I really hope he doesn't get on Gabby's case this year if he slumps. It should help Gabby to play with Richie all year though, not only because he's so good, but because last year we heard Gabby again and again just dying for consistent linemates.


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Originally Posted by Mike1983 View Post
Im not going to comment on everything you said, but that is just false. Torts takes the blame a lot of the time when things arent going well. Yes he calls out other players as he should, but to say he doesn't take blame is just wrong and not true.
The calling out players thing isn't necessarily the part that bugs me, but it's the way that he does it.

Like look at the way he handled the Avery thing with the media. He basically tries to embarrass the guy on his way out the door. Why can't you just say that this is a decision that he made and he feels it's best for the club and be done with it? When Torts has an issue with someone or something someone does he's usually a jerk about it. I get that it doesn't bother some people that he's like that. But for me, I think the man who is leading the troops should be someone that has the respect of everyone. Based on his actions, I'd find it hard to believe that he does.


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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
My name is MSG the place to be...and I could not care less about goals/assists/points.

His goal against the Islanders was an impressive play because he saw the opening for the breakaway and calmly converted the goal. The other three goals are no more impessive to me than about 1000 other plays that have been made by a Ranger in the first five games.
That's probably the least impressive goal he scored IMO. That was basically like a shoot out attempt. He's scored goals in dirty areas, something we didn't see last season, and last night's snipe is something that we see from a Ranger on the power play....when exactly? Cause in the past decade I'm pretty sure Jagr was the only other guy that did that consistently.


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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
he had 8 shots on goal....he's 6th in the NHL in shots on goal....tied for 7th in total goals. youre seriously going to complain about him?
Gabby is one of those players that because of his style of play is never going to be able to please everyone. He could be a PPG player and there would still be people complaining about his "effort" level or whatever else they come up with.


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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
the velocity jsut wasnt there on his shots last year...the goalies would save his shots like they were a scott gomez limp noodler right to their gloves....2 years ago when he took a shot the goalie either had to make a "skin of his neck" type save, or the shot was just wide. same like this year....last year everything was into the chest with no velocity whatsoever on it. you can SEE the velocity now....in that...well you cant really track the shot off of his stick...you see gaborik load and release, then you see the puck 1/2 a second later either in the back of the net, or hitting the glass...but you cant seem to track the shot because its just so fast....last year i had no problems tracking his shot...and when you can easily track a shot from TV, you know the goalie isnt going to have much trouble doing so.

Yeah I can't believe there's people out there that can't see this. If you watched this team every year two seasons ago, and then watched them every game last year, it was clear as day. Now he's looking like the guy from year 1 again.

What do people think? The guy came here and dominated year one, and then year two decided to call it quits?

But I'm the one who's not logical if I take exactly what you saw and I"m sure many others did and come to the conclusion that he was never the same after SEPARATING HIS SHOOTING SHOULDER last year.

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10-21-2011, 02:04 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Ah yes, the typical North American hockey mentality of "if he isn't a physical player, he's not good enough no matter what."
I'm not going to generalize everybody who feels this way about players like Gabby into that, but yeah you're right there's definitely way too many people who just absolutely loathe guys with immense talent that don't play dirty.

Gaborik is a 40 goal guy with elite speed and he adds so much to any team.

But for whatever reason if he's not throwing his body into guys twice his size, or cycling down low, he's a floater and a bum.

Gabby scores his goals because he's always looking for that open area so if someone else who is doing those things sees him he can capitalize.

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10-21-2011, 02:15 PM
  #118
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Ah yes, the typical North American hockey mentality of "if he isn't a physical player, he's not good enough no matter what."
Seriously. I find it very hard to take people serious if thats how they see the game.

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10-21-2011, 03:21 PM
  #119
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You can't tell me that Gaborik's inability to handle contact is reminiscent of any breed of hockey player, North American, European, Australian, or otherwise.

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10-21-2011, 04:14 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
You can't tell me that Gaborik's inability to handle contact is reminiscent of any breed of hockey player, North American, European, Australian, or otherwise.
If he couldnt handle contact then he wouldnt be in the league.

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10-21-2011, 04:25 PM
  #121
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Well what ever the reason, laziness, injury, personal life issues... he wasn't playing the way he needs to in order to be successful.

This season, so far, he's motivated. Battling for the puck on the boards, taking a hit to make a play, going to the net, backcheking... the things I was begging him to do last year.

The production for any player is a byproduct of the work they put in away from the puck.

And as theorized, Richards is a perfect match with Gaborik. Not just the skill set, but the attitude and leadership.

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10-21-2011, 05:44 PM
  #122
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This season, so far, he's motivated. Battling for the puck on the boards, taking a hit to make a play, going to the net, backcheking... the things I was begging him to do last year.
This is what prompted me to start this thread. Gaborik just looks like a totally different player from last season.

What's impressing me the most, is his play without the puck. He's cutting in and out of traffic, getting himself in dirty areas, and ultimately outworking the man next to him.

He was coasting last season, for whatever reason. This year though, from day 1, he's been skating with a purpose.

He could be pointless thus far, and I would still be happy with him considering his overall play. Like kindms pointed out, his compete level is where it needs to be. If he maintains it, he'll have a huge season.

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10-21-2011, 05:57 PM
  #123
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This is what prompted me to start this thread. Gaborik just looks like a totally different player from last season.

What's impressing me the most, is his play without the puck. He's cutting in and out of traffic, getting himself in dirty areas, and ultimately outworking the man next to him.

He was coasting last season, for whatever reason. This year though, from day 1, he's been skating with a purpose.

He could be pointless thus far, and I would still be happy with him considering his overall play. Like kindms pointed out, his compete level is where it needs to be. If he maintains it, he'll have a huge season.
Agreed. Yesterday on his PP goal he make a quick move to get into great scoring position and just sent it home.

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10-21-2011, 06:00 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
He's still unable to get off his shot except for last night on a powerplay where he was uncontested. #crazypills
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
He doesn't do it for me. I can point to many moments where I shake my head at him making too soft a play. It irks me, sorry bro.
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
You can't tell me that Gaborik's inability to handle contact is reminiscent of any breed of hockey player, North American, European, Australian, or otherwise.
So he's unable to get off his shot, but he's in the top-10 in Shots? And your reasoning for that is because he just doesn't do it for you?

I can point to many moments where I shook my head at Gretzky for making too soft a play.
I can point to many moments where I shook my head at Messier for making too rough a play
I can point to many moments where I shook my head at Richter for being too aggressive in net.
I can point to many moments where I shook my head at Lundqvist for being too passive in net.

As mentioned, if Gaborik couldn't handle physical contact, he would have never made it in this league.

When he does score, do you pout or cheer? Just curious . . . . .

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10-21-2011, 06:28 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
He doesn't do it for me. I can point to many moments where I shake my head at him making too soft a play. It irks me, sorry bro.
You're right. He's not a "grinder" and has actual talent that he can rely on instead of banging bodies. I wonder if guys like Crosby get criticized for having talent and not steamrolling people. If he can score 40 goals, the last thing I want to see him do is grind and play like someone he's not. This is why a team needs to fill many different roles and I think we've seen early this season that he is easily their best forward (grinding and body checking aside). He can make it happen and has gotten more chances off his stick than arguable the entire 2nd line has combined. Come on now.

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