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Can we get a grinder for MZA?

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Old
10-22-2011, 12:50 PM
  #26
Artemia
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I can't wait for zuccarello to get traded and then dominate Rangers every time he meets them. Glorious.

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10-22-2011, 01:02 PM
  #27
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As far as MZA goes I think he unfortunately cant beat out Cally and Gabs...that said those two are more breakable then an egg laid by a bald eagle laden with DDT as a result of biomagnification (Whoosh over everyones heads lol).

If Cally goes down i think we should DEF see MZA on that 2nd line. He just possibly may contribute more offense with artie and Dubs capable of more possession and finding open space/battling.

PS I realize some may be offended by lumping ni Cally there. Hes not nearly as breakable as GAbs but he is unfotunately injured once a year due to style of play.

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10-22-2011, 01:15 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1983 View Post
Another grinder??

Why do we need another one? Almost our entire bottom 9 are grinders. We dont need anymore.

Is it so bad to have a very skilled offensive tool in the minors in case an injury bug hits?

Or how about he earns himself a callup again, and we give him 2nd line minutes and someone (say Dubinsky) who is struggling in the 2nd line spot should go to the 3rd line.

MZA should not be moved. I understand some posters dont like him because he is short or whatever, but thats not a reason. His defense is not that bad enough that it cost us anything and unlike other players, he looks and tries to improve himself.

Im praying he gets another callup this season and proves a lot of people wrong, hopefully proving to Sather to give him an extension.
I was going to post the same thoughts. We need an injection of talent on the bottom lines, not more grinders. From the looks of how Zuke started in HDF i'm sure we will see him again before end of Nov.

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10-22-2011, 01:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemia View Post
I can't wait for zuccarello to get traded and then dominate Rangers every time he meets them. Glorious.
Who knows, everyone said that about Prucha when he left and that didn't happen. But then again many didn't think PA Parenteau would turn into anything and he fits what your saying perfectly.

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10-22-2011, 05:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
You can say what you want, but if you take a look at the first two games in Stockholm, you could see that Zuccarello was the first forward back on almost all occasions when he was on the ice. No, he's not going to bully people in the defensive zone, pick-pocket yes.

How many times did Anaheim get a two-on-one in that game? 5-6?
MZA has always been the first guy back-checking going back to last season. He was a plus player last season. He wasnt on for a single goal against this season. That bad defensive player label is not just in my opinion. Sometimes Torts says things to motivate a player or justify a move but the actual statistics do not back up that bad defensive player label some MZA detratactors like to use.

There were several teams that wanted to sign MZA last season. Him averaging .55 points per game and the 3rd best points per minute played on the team will mean he will have teams wanting him again.

Going back to the thread title I'm surprised some people want yet another grinder. Most our forwards already are grinders. Are we trying to turn hockey in to soccer where we have a goal every 40 minutes or so? There is no rule that the 3rd and 4th line must be filled only with lesser skilled grinding players. Some teams do it because they dont have a choice. We have enough skill to make a 3rd line that can be a legit scoring threat and then plenty of grinders to make a solid checking line out of the 4th line.

Step-Richards-Gabs
Duby-AA-Cally
WW-Boyle-MZA
Feds-Rupp(or Newbury)-Prust


Last edited by NickyFotiu: 10-22-2011 at 07:31 PM.
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Old
10-22-2011, 07:10 PM
  #31
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im sure torts would agree with your proposal.

problem is, we dont need more grinders. we have a team full of them already.

this organization seems to be allergic to offensive talent. wtf is that about?

people, not all offensive players are 2 way players. maybe in a torts world they are but in reality, mario lemieux, pavel bure, brett hull, danny heatley, mike bossy, ilya kovalchuk, patrick kane, gaborik for sure, alex kovalev, heck even wayne gretzky all were scorers who focused on offense first and could even be considered "cherry pickers". these guys were all goal scorers plain and simple. they knew how to score goals.

this team needs guys like this. thats what we freekin lack. SCORERS !!!

and some want more grinders. good god.

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10-22-2011, 07:38 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
people, not all offensive players are 2 way players. maybe in a torts world they are but in reality, mario lemieux, pavel bure, brett hull, danny heatley, mike bossy, ilya kovalchuk, patrick kane, gaborik for sure, alex kovalev, heck even wayne gretzky all were scorers who focused on offense first and could even be considered "cherry pickers". these guys were all goal scorers plain and simple. they knew how to score goals.
The difference here is that MZA is not even in the same realm of caliber as any of these players - at his best, he could become a smaller Kristian Huselius, and that's not disappointing in any sense. However, MZA has to prove that he's capable of playing in this league. I understand that that's tough to do when you're getting bottom-6 minutes with players that are primarily "grinders" and lack overall offensive skill, but, if not there, where will he play? Which player in the top-6 will he usurp - I've asked this question about 5 times, and I've never gotten an answer.

With the top-6 "set", really, there is no room for MZA in an "offensive role". I realize that people have a different assessment of what "talent" means, but is Zuccarello better than any of Anisimov, Callahan, Dubinsky, Richards, Stepan, and Gaborik? Nope, and, regardless of his perceived "skill", he will not be fed ice-time to "prove himself" over these players.

I don't exactly agree with Tortorella's philosophy of having to play a physical/two-way game to get major minutes either, but, given the way the roster is built, most of the players have to play a competent two-way game. Every player in the top-6 is, at worst, an adequate defensive player - I think Zuccarello is smart enough to be a good defensive player, but he simply is not strong or fast enough to carry out that thought process on the ice. Aside from that, he already plays with very flawed players in the bottom-6. He's between a rock and a hard place, really.

Honestly, I think he has it in him to be a good NHL player - but, in order to do so, he either has to completely light it up in Connecticut, and show in the bottom-6 that he deserves ice time, or he has to move on.

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Old
10-22-2011, 07:44 PM
  #33
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Reminds me of some of the stuff I heard about PA Parenteau a couple of years ago.

Probably many of the same things were said about Marty ST Louis when Calgary cut him.

I bet some were even said about Cally not that long ago when he scored 13 points in 52 games.

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10-22-2011, 07:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
im sure torts would agree with your proposal.

problem is, we dont need more grinders. we have a team full of them already.

this organization seems to be allergic to offensive talent. wtf is that about?

people, not all offensive players are 2 way players. maybe in a torts world they are but in reality, mario lemieux, pavel bure, brett hull, danny heatley, mike bossy, ilya kovalchuk, patrick kane, gaborik for sure, alex kovalev, heck even wayne gretzky all were scorers who focused on offense first and could even be considered "cherry pickers". these guys were all goal scorers plain and simple. they knew how to score goals.

this team needs guys like this. thats what we freekin lack. SCORERS !!!

and some want more grinders. good god.
So... let's name every hall of fame caliber goal scorer we can to make a point?

Zuccarello can't hold onto an NHL roster spot, and we are damning the Rangers organization because they can't turn water into wine?

Kreider, Miller, and Fasth have more offsive talent and all-around game then Zuccarello could hope to have. And they're not small, weak, and slow, either. So no, this organization isn't incapable of drafting/finding offensive talent.

And no, its not OK for players to be irresponsible onedimensional untrustworthy undependable liabilities just because they have some skill.

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10-22-2011, 08:15 PM
  #35
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The guy's gonna be playing overseas next year with Wolski in some beer league. Enough said. He's not an NHL player

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10-22-2011, 08:20 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
So... let's name every hall of fame caliber goal scorer we can to make a point?

Zuccarello can't hold onto an NHL roster spot, and we are damning the Rangers organization because they can't turn water into wine?

Kreider, Miller, and Fasth have more offsive talent and all-around game then Zuccarello could hope to have. And they're not small, weak, and slow, either. So no, this organization isn't incapable of drafting/finding offensive talent.

And no, its not OK for players to be irresponsible onedimensional untrustworthy undependable liabilities just because they have some skill.
you managed to miss my point entirely

adding more marginally talented grinders isnt the answer for this talent challenged team

a coach who knows how to utilize all his players' strengths is.

we havent got that coach.

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10-22-2011, 08:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
The guy's gonna be playing overseas next year with Wolski in some beer league. Enough said. He's not an NHL player
Yessum. They'll both be bellying up to the bar for icy cold ones after their brewskie league game is over that nite. C ya fellows!

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10-22-2011, 08:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
you managed to miss my point entirely

adding more marginally talented grinders isnt the answer for this talent challenged team

a coach who knows how to utilize all his players' strengths is.

we havent got that coach.
I wouldn't acquire one externally, I agree.

And I wouldn't trade Zuccarello for one...but for a defenseman, yes.

We have offensive players on their way in the system.

All players need to be responsible, eitherway.

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10-22-2011, 08:30 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Yessum. They'll both be bellying up to the bar for icy cold ones after their brewskie league game is over that nite. C ya fellows!
Some one who gets it? Oh wait, it's the refs fault MZA isn't an NHL player. That seems to be the go to excuse around these parts after a game

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10-22-2011, 10:09 PM
  #40
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If going the grinder route:

What would we have to add to get Helm from Detroit if Zucc was in the package?

Helm would be a heck of a 3rd line C for us then leaving Stepan on the 1st line LW would be a no brainer and screw Wolski, trade him for a pick or something.

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10-22-2011, 11:41 PM
  #41
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After tonight's game, we can clearly see we need more grinders. Yeah, we need more Prusts and Fedotenkos.

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10-23-2011, 12:30 AM
  #42
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I would rather have a guy like Alex Semin than another guy like Cally or Dubinsky who bust their rear end. At the end of the day, Semin barely tries and if healthy can still get 40 goals a season. I'm sorry, work ethic or not, I'd take it because the team needs TALENT. A mix will win games. The Rangers line up isn't close to being balanced... not at all.

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10-23-2011, 02:19 AM
  #43
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If Dubinsky, Stepan, Boyle, Fedotenko and Gaborik is NHL-material then certainly Zuccarello is too.

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10-23-2011, 04:16 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
So... let's name every hall of fame caliber goal scorer we can to make a point?

Zuccarello can't hold onto an NHL roster spot, and we are damning the Rangers organization because they can't turn water into wine?

Kreider, Miller, and Fasth have more offsive talent and all-around game then Zuccarello could hope to have. And they're not small, weak, and slow, either. So no, this organization isn't incapable of drafting/finding offensive talent.

And no, its not OK for players to be irresponsible onedimensional untrustworthy undependable liabilities just because they have some skill.
Fasth is about as offensively talented as MZA is tall. Doubt Fasth will be anything more than a borderline 3rd liner or a 2nd liner on a bottom-5 team.

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10-23-2011, 07:05 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
The guy's gonna be playing overseas next year with Wolski in some beer league. Enough said. He's not an NHL player
And you my friend just won the quote of the day prize! And I do not mean that in a good way....

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10-23-2011, 08:22 AM
  #46
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We had the perfect grinder, for those with short term memory he wore jersey #16, Sean avery ring a bell?!?!?!?

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10-23-2011, 08:24 AM
  #47
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have a feeling Zuke is going to get called up again. Likely as soon as the home opener

for crying out loud just run this and see what happens

Wolski, Richards, Gaborik
Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan
Boyle, Stepan, Zuccarello
Fedotenko, Rupp, Prust
Christensen

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Old
10-23-2011, 09:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The difference here is that MZA is not even in the same realm of caliber as any of these players - at his best, he could become a smaller Kristian Huselius, and that's not disappointing in any sense. However, MZA has to prove that he's capable of playing in this league. I understand that that's tough to do when you're getting bottom-6 minutes with players that are primarily "grinders" and lack overall offensive skill, but, if not there, where will he play? Which player in the top-6 will he usurp - I've asked this question about 5 times, and I've never gotten an answer.

With the top-6 "set", really, there is no room for MZA in an "offensive role". I realize that people have a different assessment of what "talent" means, but is Zuccarello better than any of Anisimov, Callahan, Dubinsky, Richards, Stepan, and Gaborik? Nope, and, regardless of his perceived "skill", he will not be fed ice-time to "prove himself" over these players.

I don't exactly agree with Tortorella's philosophy of having to play a physical/two-way game to get major minutes either, but, given the way the roster is built, most of the players have to play a competent two-way game. Every player in the top-6 is, at worst, an adequate defensive player - I think Zuccarello is smart enough to be a good defensive player, but he simply is not strong or fast enough to carry out that thought process on the ice. Aside from that, he already plays with very flawed players in the bottom-6. He's between a rock and a hard place, really.

Honestly, I think he has it in him to be a good NHL player - but, in order to do so, he either has to completely light it up in Connecticut, and show in the bottom-6 that he deserves ice time, or he has to move on.
Given the terrible start by the forwards offensively, how can anyone say that the Top 6 is set? When did we start guaranteeing guys spots?

This team is being outshot by almost 10 shots per game...and they have been really lucky in their wins....a Luongo melt down and a great OT winner by McD are all that stands between 2 wins and being winless.

There should be no "untouchables" in this lineup.

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Old
10-23-2011, 09:31 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Given the terrible start by the forwards offensively, how can anyone say that the Top 6 is set? When did we start guaranteeing guys spots?

This team is being outshot by almost 10 shots per game...and they have been really lucky in their wins....a Luongo melt down and a great OT winner by McD are all that stands between 2 wins and being winless.

There should be no "untouchables" in this lineup.
So could they move Wolski to LW on the 1st line and slide Dubi to C, Zuke LW, Cally RW on the 2nd line

then leaves Stepan , AA, Feds.........Rupp, Boyle, Prust

figure it out boys

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