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The future of the franchise?! Drafts, Trades, Retirement

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Old
10-22-2011, 12:43 PM
  #26
Krishna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWE View Post
I say don't resign Carle or Coburn, get rid of Hartnell, Shelley, Walker, Lilja, Nödl and Talbot, and go after Suter and Parise instead. Jagr probably will retire.

1: Riemsdyk-Giroux-Parise
2: Voracek-Schenn-Briere
3: Read-Couturier-Simmonds
4: Wellwood-Holmstrom-Zolnierczyk

1: Pronger-Suter
2: Meszaros-Timonen
3: Lauridsen-Gustafsson

1: Bryzgalov
Get rid of talbot? We just signed him to a 5 year deal.
And dont compare him to Carter.. talbot doesnt have that much value

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Old
10-22-2011, 12:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SWE View Post
Exactly! And they are not worth that kind of money.
They might not be worth that kind of money, but there will be a team out there that will pay them that kind of money. That's the problem. When young unrestricted free agent defensemen hit the open market, teams go nuts. Ron Hainsey isn't a 4.5 million dollar a year defenseman either, but he got it. Why isn't it possible that some team is going to over spend on two young defensemen, especially when one is a physical stay at home kind of defenseman and the other one is an offensive defenseman. I'm willing to bet right now that if contract agreements aren't reached with either, they'll have all kinds of suitors come day one of free agency.....

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10-22-2011, 12:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Why not?
I just don't think they are that good.

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10-22-2011, 02:35 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SWE View Post
I just don't think they are that good.

Okay, but why aren't they?

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Old
10-22-2011, 03:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWE View Post
I say don't resign Carle or Coburn, get rid of Hartnell, Shelley, Walker, Lilja, Nödl and Talbot, and go after Suter and Parise instead. Jagr probably will retire.

1: Riemsdyk-Giroux-Parise
2: Voracek-Schenn-Briere
3: Read-Couturier-Simmonds
4: Wellwood-Holmstrom-Zolnierczyk

1: Pronger-Suter
2: Meszaros-Timonen
3: Lauridsen-Gustafsson

1: Bryzgalov

IMO we cant play with our prospects as #6 + #7 Dman. Gustafsson might be NHL ready but no one else of the prospects is. Lilja is on an +35 contract so you only can buyout him and that makes no sence for 1 year. Also no other team will take him. Walker, Shelley aren´t tradeable because of salary and skill level. Hartnell has a NTC so i´am not sure we can trade him. Nödl doesn´t make a huge amount of money so he isn´t a real problem. Talbot is signed for 5 years and is one of our best players in terms of Checking, Defense, PK and Leadership on the ice.... I never ever will trade him. Only if i can get someone back who is as good as him without earning so much.... Parise is full of injuries so i´am not sure i want a piece of him on the flyers.

So i must disagree with most of your posting

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Old
10-22-2011, 04:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
IMO we cant play with our prospects as #6 + #7 Dman. Gustafsson might be NHL ready but no one else of the prospects is. Lilja is on an +35 contract so you only can buyout him and that makes no sence for 1 year. Also no other team will take him. Walker, Shelley aren´t tradeable because of salary and skill level. Hartnell has a NTC so i´am not sure we can trade him. Nödl doesn´t make a huge amount of money so he isn´t a real problem. Talbot is signed for 5 years and is one of our best players in terms of Checking, Defense, PK and Leadership on the ice.... I never ever will trade him. Only if i can get someone back who is as good as him without earning so much.... Parise is full of injuries so i´am not sure i want a piece of him on the flyers.

So i must disagree with most of your posting
If you buyout Lilja he would still count against the Cap, less 100K.

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10-22-2011, 04:57 PM
  #32
Ironmanrulez
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What about this lineup

Hartnell trade for picks or Dman prospects
2012 Draft taking dman prospects
Jagr retires
Stuart, Grossman ufa signings
Carle or Coburn resigning depends on who is willing to sign for 4.5...
Voracek resigned for 3,25

FORWARDS
J. VanRiemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds($1.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/ Danny Briere ($6.500m)
________($0.000m)/ Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Harry Z ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)/ Andreas Nödl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) AHL

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Carle or Coburn ($4.500m)resigning
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Brad Stuart ($4.500m) UFA signing
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Niklas Grossman ($2.200m) Ufa signing
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) AHL


GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m) /Sergej Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: ~ $62.914.000;
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): ~ $1.386.000

That left 1.386.000 of cap space for another player

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Old
10-22-2011, 04:59 PM
  #33
Ironmanrulez
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
If you buyout Lilja he would still count against the Cap, less 100K.
Thats exaclty the case, and that is why i have written that it makes no sence to buyout him

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Old
10-22-2011, 05:26 PM
  #34
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
What about this lineup

Hartnell trade for picks or Dman prospects
2012 Draft taking dman prospects
Jagr retires
Stuart, Grossman ufa signings
Carle or Coburn resigning depends on who is willing to sign for 4.5...
Voracek resigned for 3,25

FORWARDS
J. VanRiemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds($1.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/ Danny Briere ($6.500m)
________($0.000m)/ Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Harry Z ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)/ Andreas Nödl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) AHL

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Carle or Coburn ($4.500m)resigning
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Brad Stuart ($4.500m) UFA signing
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Niklas Grossman ($2.200m) Ufa signing
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) AHL


GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m) /Sergej Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: ~ $62.914.000;
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): ~ $1.386.000

That left 1.386.000 of cap space for another player
Slow your roll there chief.

vanRiemsdyk (4.25) - Giroux (3.75) - Voracek (4.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Schenn (0.90) - Briere (6.50)
Simmonds (1.75) - Couturier (0.93) - Read (0.90)
Rinaldo (0.54) - Talbot (1.75) - Nodl (0.85)
xxxxxxxxxx

Pronger (4.92) - Gustafsson (0.90)
Timonen (6.33) - Meszaros (4.00)
Coburn(/Carle) (4.50) - xxxxxxxxxx
Lilja (0.74)

Bryzgalov (5.67)
Bobrovsky (1.75)

TOTAL: 59.13
CAP: 64.30 (2011-12 with likely sizable rise in 2012-13 due to new TV contract)
SPACE: 05.17 + extra cap increase

Bold denotes re-signed player.

With over 5.17m in space and just two roster spots to fill, the sky is pretty much the limit. Just for reference, I didn't count bonuses in the ELC cap hits because we don't know yet whether or not bonuses will count.

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Old
10-22-2011, 05:53 PM
  #35
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Hartnell and Walker for Sbisa and a 4th.

Do it do it do it.

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10-22-2011, 05:58 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Hartnell and Walker for Sbisa and a 4th.

Do it do it do it.
Still doesnt fix the problem of needing a #1 and #2 dman... Sbisa would probably be #3 or 4

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Old
10-22-2011, 06:03 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Shadeslayer813 View Post
Still doesnt fix the problem of needing a #1 and #2 dman... Sbisa would probably be #3 or 4
Getting a quality guy who will remain cheap given his relative level of playing time and skill is quite important. Plus he replaces Carle and roughly half the price.

The root problem is having Timonen's salary as the basis for getting another number 1. And Coburn getting 4.5mil, but that is a different issue.

Plus, we have to be cognizant of the amount of young fellows playing and when their ELC's end. Can't spend a huge amount on D since in the next few years those young guys will need new contracts.

Lastly, we all secretly miss Sbisa.

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Old
10-22-2011, 06:36 PM
  #38
Ironmanrulez
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Slow your roll there chief.

vanRiemsdyk (4.25) - Giroux (3.75) - Voracek (4.00)

TOTAL: 59.13
CAP: 64.30 (2011-12 with likely sizable rise in 2012-13 due to new TV contract)
SPACE: 05.17 + extra cap increase

Bold denotes re-signed player.
If we must pay Voracek over 4.0 i want to trade him in a package with Hartnell. Till now i can´t see he, that he is playing like a 4.0 guy!


The cap could rise, but with the cba ends it really can turn in another direction!?
Don´t you think we need a new Dman like Stuart? Are you so high on Gustafsson? Its only a question because i can´t look any AHL Game. What i saw from Gus in the preseason was ok but nothing more than a #5 or #6 dman potential, maybe with QB upside at PP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Slow your roll there chief.
Don´t understand it really

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Old
10-23-2011, 12:46 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
If we must pay Voracek over 4.0 i want to trade him in a package with Hartnell. Till now i can´t see he, that he is playing like a 4.0 guy!


The cap could rise, but with the cba ends it really can turn in another direction!?
Don´t you think we need a new Dman like Stuart? Are you so high on Gustafsson? Its only a question because i can´t look any AHL Game. What i saw from Gus in the preseason was ok but nothing more than a #5 or #6 dman potential, maybe with QB upside at PP.


Don´t understand it really
Voracek probably doesn't seem like he's worth 4, but with the cap rising and worse teams overpaying guys, 4 isn't bad for him. I still think he'll be well worth it in a couple years.

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Old
10-23-2011, 12:57 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
What about this lineup

Hartnell trade for picks or Dman prospects
2012 Draft taking dman prospects
Jagr retires
Stuart, Grossman ufa signings
Carle or Coburn resigning depends on who is willing to sign for 4.5...
Voracek resigned for 3,25

FORWARDS
J. VanRiemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds($1.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/ Danny Briere ($6.500m)
________($0.000m)/ Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Harry Z ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)/ Andreas Nödl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) AHL

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Carle or Coburn ($4.500m)resigning
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Brad Stuart ($4.500m) UFA signing
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Niklas Grossman ($2.200m) Ufa signing
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) AHL


GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m) /Sergej Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: ~ $62.914.000;
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): ~ $1.386.000

That left 1.386.000 of cap space for another player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
If we must pay Voracek over 4.0 i want to trade him in a package with Hartnell. Till now i can´t see he, that he is playing like a 4.0 guy!


The cap could rise, but with the cba ends it really can turn in another direction!?
Don´t you think we need a new Dman like Stuart? Are you so high on Gustafsson? Its only a question because i can´t look any AHL Game. What i saw from Gus in the preseason was ok but nothing more than a #5 or #6 dman potential, maybe with QB upside at PP.


Don´t understand it really
For someone who only gets to see games live in the middle of the night, that's a pretty solid assessment of potential moves in the future.

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Old
10-23-2011, 02:11 AM
  #41
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If it's any consolation, this draft year is stockpiled with top defensemen.

That is assuming Homer doesn't trade away a 1st (and the usual 2nd).

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10-23-2011, 02:57 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SWE View Post
I just don't think they are that good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Okay, but why aren't they?

I have to agree with Van here. Carle HAS ALREADY been playing as a #2 dman along side a legit #1 in Pronger for now his 3rd year. How is he NOT a #2, he's freaking doing it and has a damned good +/- to show for it. I know that +/- isn't the end-all tell-all for a dman but if he was nearly as god aweful as everyone he says he has been for the past 2 years don't you think it would have shown in his numbers??? Oh, and before you throw out there that it's just because Pronger has been covering for his ass for the past 2+ years, don't forget that Pronger missed almost half the season last year and even without Pronger Carle still posted his career best +/- and 2nd best points in a season.


I'd have absolutely no problem pairing Carle with Suter. In fact I'd be very happy with it. Would I rather have Suter AND Weber, sure, but I'd settle for just having Suter and Carle. Even with getting Suter (IF we get him that is) I'd still look to draft a top end dman in this years draft unless all the franshise dmen are off the board AND an elite level forward fell into our lap like Couturier did this year (there was no way in hell he was suppose to drop that far and us get him).

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Old
10-23-2011, 07:50 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
All 3 are capable of being a #2 with a legitimate #1 in a top pairing
Mezsaros may be a legitimate #2, Carle and Coburn are more #3-4 guys. It's rare for teams to skate their top 2 defensemen together as an even strength pair, you usually want each of them to anchor a their own pairing (ie PRONGER-Carle & Coburn-TIMONEN) with a lesser blueliner so you get 40-50 minutes of excellent defense.

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Old
10-23-2011, 08:27 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
If it's any consolation, this draft year is stockpiled with top defensemen.

That is assuming Homer doesn't trade away a 1st (and the usual 2nd).
Scurry for Murray

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Old
10-23-2011, 09:58 AM
  #45
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I have to agree with Van here. Carle HAS ALREADY been playing as a #2 dman along side a legit #1 in Pronger for now his 3rd year. How is he NOT a #2, he's freaking doing it and has a damned good +/- to show for it. I know that +/- isn't the end-all tell-all for a dman but if he was nearly as god aweful as everyone he says he has been for the past 2 years don't you think it would have shown in his numbers??? Oh, and before you throw out there that it's just because Pronger has been covering for his ass for the past 2+ years, don't forget that Pronger missed almost half the season last year and even without Pronger Carle still posted his career best +/- and 2nd best points in a season.
I've been a Carle defender on here from day one that the Flyers traded for him. With that being said, he was BADLY exposed in the playoffs. I will admit that he was superb during the regular season, but the moment the games started to matter, Carle fell apart. For a lead defenseman, you need to be a rock when things get difficult and Carle didn't step up when he needed to. Now, if he does it this year, will it be because he's in a contract year or will it be because he finally made the next step forward? Who knows and that's what worries me with Carle - he'll always be a great second fiddle, but he'll never be a lead violin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I'd have absolutely no problem pairing Carle with Suter. In fact I'd be very happy with it. Would I rather have Suter AND Weber, sure, but I'd settle for just having Suter and Carle. Even with getting Suter (IF we get him that is) I'd still look to draft a top end dman in this years draft unless all the franshise dmen are off the board AND an elite level forward fell into our lap like Couturier did this year (there was no way in hell he was suppose to drop that far and us get him).
Not a problem with a Carle - Suter pairing either. Carle - Suter / Pronger - Meszaros / Timonen - Coburn would make an awesome top six in terms of defense.

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Old
10-23-2011, 08:31 PM
  #46
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For someone who only gets to see games live in the middle of the night, that's a pretty solid assessment of potential moves in the future.
Thx mate

I have the chance to look the games relive so i don´t need to lost my sleep for every game But i loose a lot of sleep while seeing through Hockybuzz, Hockey News, HF Boards and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Not a problem with a Carle - Suter pairing either. Carle - Suter / Pronger - Meszaros / Timonen - Coburn would make an awesome top six in terms of defense.
Carle 4.0 - 4.5
Suter 6.0 - 7.0
Pronger 4.9
Timonen 6.6
Meszaros 4.0
Coburn 4.0 - 4.5

So you will pay 29.5 - 35.5 for your D? Its a huge amount of money. Can´t we replace Carle or Coburn with a solid stay at home dman who only make 2.0 - 2.5?

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