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Old
10-22-2011, 07:27 AM
  #1
dkollidas
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Daniel Cleary

Sabres fan here. Just wondering what it would take to acquire this guy. Consistent 20goal scorer who has won a cup, could find a nice niche for us. Maybe Gragniani+ Boyes? Gragniani is an RFA and Boyes is on an expiring contract so if he doesn't work out, could just let him walk. Or what else would be required?

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Old
10-22-2011, 07:52 AM
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Detroit doesn't trade veterans... moving along.


Last edited by Boomhower: 10-22-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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Old
10-22-2011, 09:26 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Sabres fan here. Just wondering what it would take to acquire this guy. Consistent 20goal scorer who has won a cup, could find a nice niche for us. Maybe Gragniani+ Boyes? Gragniani is an RFA and Boyes is on an expiring contract so if he doesn't work out, could just let him walk. Or what else would be required?
Cleary's 20G+ consistency is the icing on the cake for this type of player. He's the kind of player Babcock loves because he will play a two-way game, and he will crash the net/go to the tough spots. He can be trusted in all situations. Thus he's often moved up and down the roster as needed to fill in for injuries to say a top PP unit guy, the PK or 1st, 2nd or 3rd line, even to take faceoffs in a pinch. His work ethic cannot be questioned either, he's usually firing on all cylinders when he's on the ice.

When the playoffs role around, he really has an extra gear. He's definitely one of the playoff warriors who is not afraid to play a physical game. I think it's one of the reasons he's had some injuries with which to contend, along with a couple of fluke ones (like getting his jaw smashed on the PP from a teammate's shot or the detached cornea, prompting him to get a visor...). If he can walk, he'll lace them up and play through all kinds of pain. One recent playoff series, he had severely ripped groin muscles on both sides and a shoulder injury, but he was trying to lead the charge on the ice.

Love this guy. I think he's highly undervalued by a certain segment of Wings fans.

I have no idea what it would take to pry him off the Wings in trade terms. Firstly they just don't trade a veteran roster guy, so if something would entice them, it would a huge, huge overpayment.

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Old
10-22-2011, 09:34 AM
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Detroit has no real reason to move him, unless it were as part of a package for an elite player in return. And even then, Holland is far from inclined to make those kinds of trades, if he trades at all.

Cleary's NTC might still be in effect as well.

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10-22-2011, 09:59 AM
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This got me thinking, who was the last veteran player that Detroit traded away?
I'm talking an established veteran who was in the lineup every night, and had a decent role on the team.

I know Detroit is working hard to build a player friendly environment, where they are loyal to players and honor contracts. They don't like vets having to uproot their families mid season or read their names in trade rumor tabloids every other week.

Someone may have slipped my mind, but It seems like forever since Detroit made a deal like this...

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10-22-2011, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
This got me thinking, who was the last veteran player that Detroit traded away?
I'm talking an established veteran who was in the lineup every night, and had a decent role on the team.

I know Detroit is working hard to build a player friendly environment, where they are loyal to players and honor contracts. They don't like vets having to uproot their families mid season or read their names in trade rumor tabloids every other week.

Someone may have slipped my mind, but It seems like forever since Detroit made a deal like this...
What do you mean by established? Top 6 player, top 4 defensemen?

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10-22-2011, 10:17 AM
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What do you mean by established? Top 6 player, top 4 defensemen?
No, not even.

I mean at some point, with some team, but not necessarily at the time of the trade.

i.e Salei was top 4 for years in Anaheim. He played regularly in Detroit, but was in the bottom pairing. Even a guy like that... (example being if Detroit were to have traded Salei at some point last year). Clearly himself bounces between 1st, 2nd and 3rd line. But is definitely an established veteran with a role.

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10-22-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
No, not even.

I mean at some point, with some team, but not necessarily at the time of the trade.

i.e Salei was top 4 for years in Anaheim. He played regularly in Detroit, but was in the bottom pairing. Even a guy like that... (example being if Detroit were to have traded Salei at some point last year). Clearly himself bounces between 1st, 2nd and 3rd line. But is definitely an established veteran with a role.
Jason Williams for whats his face back in '07.

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Old
10-22-2011, 10:22 AM
  #9
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Some people hate on Cleary because he makes like 2.8m/year ( i think) and he had a couple 35 point seasons (08-09,09-10) so he started being a bit of a scapegoat.


Honestly I can't even think of another player who makes less then him thats a MUCH better deal except Burrows. Solid 2 way player, much better then boyes in all aspects of the game and not worth giving up for Gragniani.

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10-22-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Jason Williams for whats his face back in '07.
Yeah didn't think the Wings had made any recent deals like the OP proposed... it's been a while!

The only vet I could see being moved this year is Hudler.
Ironically he is a Jason Williams type player and I don't think the Wings feel they owe him loyalty. His contract was given to him by an arbitrator and he left for Russia.

A lot of the time with Holland/illitch thats what it comes down too... loyalty

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10-22-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
This got me thinking, who was the last veteran player that Detroit traded away?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
What do you mean by established? Top 6 player, top 4 defensemen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Jason Williams for whats his face back in '07.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Yeah didn't think the Wings had made any recent deals like the OP proposed... it's been a while!

The only vet I could see being moved this year is Hudler.
Ironically he is a Jason Williams type player and I don't think the Wings feel they owe him loyalty. His contract was given to him by an arbitrator and he left for Russia.
Williams was not an established player. He had 49g-64a-113pt in 233gp in his career at the time he was traded. One season with more than 26 points. That's far from Hudler's level; Hudler has three seasons with 37+ points and posted 25 in his rookie year.

Slava Kozlov in 2001 offseason was the last trade of an established vet along the lines of Cleary. He was traded for Hasek, who had won the Vezina the previous season.

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10-22-2011, 10:45 AM
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I was reading the capgeek payroll the other day, and I'm 90% sure it said Cleary's NTC is in effect until 30 days before the trade deadline on the last season of his contract. So, if that is this season, then Detroit probably will not move him no matter what. I think that if Detroit was in a different situation (a situation they haven't been in for about 20 years now), you could see Cleary moved at the deadline, but there's no way they are moving one of their top 6 forwards this season, unless it's a guy like Hudler if he isn't producing like they want him to.

If anything, Detroit will want to ACQUIRE a vet, not trade one away!

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Old
10-22-2011, 11:07 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Williams was not an established player. He had 49g-64a-113pt in 233gp in his career at the time he was traded. One season with more than 26 points. That's far from Hudler's level; Hudler has three seasons with 37+ points and posted 25 in his rookie year.

Slava Kozlov in 2001 offseason was the last trade of an established vet along the lines of Cleary. He was traded for Hasek, who had won the Vezina the previous season.
I agree, it's always debateable what is considered a veteran or established.

I just meant 'type' of player. In other words they're both skilled offensive centremen who were forced to the wing. They're both undersized, soft, slow and aren't great defensively... didn't calculate numbers or anything.

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10-22-2011, 11:46 AM
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Jason Williams for whats his face back in '07.
You mean Kyle Calder? Yeah, how's he doing?

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10-22-2011, 12:00 PM
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You mean Kyle Calder? Yeah, how's he doing?
Yeah that is the most recent one I can recall, J-Will for Calder. To be fair most of us were more thrilled about dumping Williams than acquiring Calder. Certainly doesn't come anywhere close to the Kozlov trade for Hasek.

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10-22-2011, 02:09 PM
  #16
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I would trade Cleary for just about anybody who can score more than 20G/season, don't care what the pricetag is. After 2009 he's been a waste of IT. Babcock inexplicably loves the guy (Olympic training camp?), but that's about all he has going for him. If only our GM wasn't so lazy... indeed Koz for Dom 10 years ago was the last meaningful trade he did.

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10-22-2011, 02:25 PM
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Boomhower
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Stuart trade was important.

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10-22-2011, 02:45 PM
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I would trade Cleary for just about anybody who can score more than 20G/season, don't care what the pricetag is. After 2009 he's been a waste of IT. Babcock inexplicably loves the guy (Olympic training camp?), but that's about all he has going for him. If only our GM wasn't so lazy... indeed Koz for Dom 10 years ago was the last meaningful trade he did.
Trading for Lang was an excellent trade; it's the only time a team has traded for the league's leading scorer midseason. We gave up Fleischmann and a couple picks (yes Mike Green was one, but he wouldn't have been picked by the Wings), but Fleischmann was rated behind Kopecky, Hudler, and Filppula among guys his age as well as Dats and Z among young Wings forwards. He succeeded offensively in a weak East on a team with Ovechkin, and has since been exposed for his inflated numbers. Hardly a loss to pick up a top center.

15 goals and 34 points in 64 games in 09-10. 26 and 46 in 68 last year.

So he's scored 41 goals and 80 points in 132 games while playing excellent defense as a "waste of ice time" since 2009. Ironically, in 2008-09, he only scored 14 goals and 40 points in 74 games - three goals and three points more than Hudler's "terrible" season last year. He's averaged 23-22-45 per 74 since then.

Such a waste. Why do we even have the guy on the team? It's not like he was on pace for 31 goals last season, bested only by Datsyuk (slightly) on the Wings.

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10-22-2011, 04:41 PM
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^ I know Lang gets hated on here but I don't think he was that bad for the Wings.
Granted I didn't has CI back then and could only watch when they were nationally televised.

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Old
10-22-2011, 04:43 PM
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Stuart trade was important.
I definitely agree, but I think that was for a draft pick. I don't remember us sending anyone to the Kings.

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10-22-2011, 04:46 PM
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Trading for Lang was an excellent trade; it's the only time a team has traded for the league's leading scorer midseason. We gave up Fleischmann and a couple picks (yes Mike Green was one, but he wouldn't have been picked by the Wings), but Fleischmann was rated behind Kopecky, Hudler, and Filppula among guys his age as well as Dats and Z among young Wings forwards. He succeeded offensively in a weak East on a team with Ovechkin, and has since been exposed for his inflated numbers. Hardly a loss to pick up a top center.

15 goals and 34 points in 64 games in 09-10. 26 and 46 in 68 last year.

So he's scored 41 goals and 80 points in 132 games while playing excellent defense as a "waste of ice time" since 2009. Ironically, in 2008-09, he only scored 14 goals and 40 points in 74 games - three goals and three points more than Hudler's "terrible" season last year. He's averaged 23-22-45 per 74 since then.

Such a waste. Why do we even have the guy on the team? It's not like he was on pace for 31 goals last season, bested only by Datsyuk (slightly) on the Wings.
I wasn't a Lang fan but you are right we didn't give up much to get him. At the time Fleischman was a project playing at a lower level, he wasn't a regular in the lineup. The J-Will trade was the last one for an established guy who got regular IT in Detroit. Even with the trade for Cheli I don't think Anders Eriksson was a regular in the lineup for Detroit back then.

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Old
10-22-2011, 04:47 PM
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Old
10-22-2011, 05:15 PM
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Boomhower
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I definitely agree, but I think that was for a draft pick. I don't remember us sending anyone to the Kings.
Yes a 2nd rounder. I was refering to Sentinel, called Holland lazy and said Detroit hasn't made a single important trade since 2001. They sometimes bring vets in, they just rarely ship them out.

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10-22-2011, 05:17 PM
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Shanahan would probably give him 7 games for that hit... Amazing hits like that went from being celebrated, to out lawed, in such a short time.

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10-22-2011, 05:27 PM
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I'm not sure. I think Phaneufs head injury was due to the aftermath, I remember the hit being clearly shoulder to shoulder. I can see that hit going to review and being deemed clean and necessary.

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