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Time for a new coach?

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Old
10-23-2011, 11:53 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
Reasoning.

man let me tell u i am a firm believer that 1 bad call in a game can change the whole complexity of the game, i am also a believer that a bad decision by a coach can change and affect players heads throughtout a year, affect momentum so on and so forth..

if i have this right, and i was at the game, that 7-1 start, we were on a roll, we were playing san jose at home, they were picked to win it all that year.. in torts infinite wisdom out of nowhere he dcides to put vallequette in net, we went up 2 nill cause of the momentum we had, we were rollin, valle gives up 5 quick and we end up losin 7-2? something like that!! from that loss on we never were the same, i think torts pissed off entire team by putting valle in net, it showed up valley and he was a well liked player by his peers, just because torts won a cup in tampa doesn't mean he should get a pass here, get rid of him

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10-23-2011, 11:54 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Yeah and that's how far it's going to go. Torts isn't getting canned unless we don't make the playoffs or do and don't go pass the first round. He's got the whole season to go, so we better get used to him.

The only way I can possibly envision him being fired before that point is if we are doing absolutely horrible at the midway point of the season. And there's no way Sather goes anywhere no matter what we do. Unless he dies.
caps were 6-14-1 when they fired Hanlon and hired Boudreau in 2007 and he finished the season with a 37-14-7 record. Will the rangers be that bad in November? I doubt it, but I think this upcoming homestand is huge, if they play as poorly as they have on this roadtrip, I think there could be some serious discussion about replacing him because then, the biggest excuse of all (the horrible travel) is gone. And you can talk all you want about the two major injuries, but every team has to deal with them, Pens lost Crosby and Malkin last year for an extended period of time and didn't miss a beat.

So I think this upcoming homestand will be huge, one way or another.

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10-23-2011, 11:56 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Yes let's fire him based on one decision, in one game out of 82. Come on man.
listen, i'm not one who likes to see someone get canned, let him coach somewhere else, he has made enough bad decisions since he's been here, water bottle epsiode, the power play, the shuffling of lines, his thought process, like someone else said if it weren't for lundy he would have been gone already

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10-23-2011, 11:58 AM
  #54
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Nobody wants him gone because we're 2-2-2. I know for myself, I am deeply concerned that the problems we have seen plague this team for a while now are still apparent.

Something just doesnt seem right. I can understand if they were unlucky (hitting posts, opposing goalie standing on his head, etc), but they just flat out suck right now.

BTW, did HBO start filiming?

Europe...HBO...Garden re-build....Winter Classic..Let's not forget that the Caps were absolutely brutal until after the Winter Classic last season.

The only reason why I dont want Torts fired this season is because, in reality, who the hell is going to replace him? The list of candidates is weak.

But I wouldnt mind a blockbuster trade...Remember, the 1994 team was playing like garbage until the Steve Larmer trade was made.

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10-23-2011, 12:01 PM
  #55
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His "system," in-game decision-making and roster preferences have been a joke.

His man-management has been a joke.

His off-ice behavior has been a joke.

And I'm not looking at the six games, I'm using a much larger sample size.

That said, it's too early to fire him.

But there is no future with him. At this point, firing him is just a timing issue.

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10-23-2011, 12:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
The only reason why I dont want Torts fired this season is because, in reality, who the hell is going to replace him? The list of candidates is weak.
Jim Schoenfeld

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10-23-2011, 12:06 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Stop being logical

This place is only for knee jerk reactions and hyperbole

You people are out of your face if you think mixing up the lines lost us that game.
This board has been hard to read lately because of the overreaction and hyberbole. Such extremism... one day the fans are planning the parade, and the next day it's doom and gloom and bridge-jumping. The truth lies somewhere in between.

And I'm pretty sure the OP started a thread the night we won against Vancouver about how the Rangers are now the team to beat in the East, and it got locked.... talk about bipolar.

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10-23-2011, 12:09 PM
  #58
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I say get rid of Richards, he has done nothing.

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10-23-2011, 12:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Seems like one of those years where every loss will be pinned on the coach. He's not going anywhere. Also, these complaints look awfully similar to what was said about Renney. How many coaches need to be fired before people realize that Sather is part of the problem here?

I said it before and I'll say it again... I never thought this team would contend for the cup this year, and those who thought they were are probably going to be disappointed. Especially with Staal out for an undetermined period of time. No 1st line LW, no legitimate offensive defenseman, a 4th line composed of spare parts.

Richards and Gabby have met my expectations so far offensively, if not exceeded them, but the Pack Line has been lackluster. I'm assuming they will turn it around at some point.

However, the PP often times lacks creativity and movement, and that's something Torts needs to fix. Maybe he should hire another assistant coach to concentrate on the PP, I never understood why he only went with one assistant anyway...
Whose fault is it that the 4th line is composed of spare parts?

Gabby and Richards have met your expectations...that's good, cause they're damn good players and have been for their entire careers.

The PP? Again...whose fault?

A lot of these issues fault at Torts' feet. You can't use them as justification for why he shouldn't be at fault, when he's the one who's at fault for them.


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Originally Posted by AlphaQUp View Post
I haven't been anti-Torts, but last night he really annoyed me. Richards and Gaborik had been getting some decent scoring chances in the 1st, so what does the monkey do? Breaks them up. Our only line that was producing any sort of offense, he breaks up. What the **** was that? Juggle whatever 2nd and 3rd liners you need, but leave the one god damn line that produces offense alone.

Second, the dump and chase thing. Or maybe it should be called dump and turn the puck over because that's what always happens. Torts "system" simply put, sucks.
This is where all the people who support Torts come in and say we don't have anyone good enough to possess the puck. But it's funny because we have guys on this team who get rid of that thing like it's a hand grenade when they have it. It's clear that this team is being instructed to get the puck in deep as soon as possible. Unfortunately, most of the time it's just us giving the puck back to the other team.

Maybe if players weren't terrified they were going to be benched if they turned the puck over in the neutral zone actually trying to be creative, we might not see it every time we get the puck.


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Originally Posted by MAYO View Post
Alrighty, so I just finished watching the game that I recorded from last night. I agree with some that think that it may be too premature to lay blame on Torts. But there's soooooo much going on here that you have to point fingers his way. The constant line juggling is bloody tiresome for 1. Also, what was the need to pick up Rupp if a guy like Prust is going to have to take on a guy like Sutton?!!? Then, why have EC on the power play in the third period? And without getting into another Avery conversation here, some of the players have gone on record claiming they miss having him around, if you ask me, I think they may not appreciate how Torts handled the way he got rid of him which makes me believe he's put himself in a position that these guys simply don't want to play for him anymore!
Do you have any quotes or links about that Avery thing? I don't recall ever seeing anything.

I don't think it's far fetched at all to believe there are players that don't like Torts. Just as I'm sure there's plenty that do. But Torts is a polarizing figure and his actions definitely rub some people the wrong way.


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Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
I never wanted this grumpy midget here in the first place. The guy is a huge child, just look at last night after the game. I'm not taking any questions waaaaahhh.. Grow up and leave lines together for more than 5 minutes. I'll take boring Renney back any time.
Exactly. People were just asking me in the other thread the other day how Torts doesn't take responsibility for things when I said he blames the players always. Last night is a perfect example. His ego is so large, it's insane. He tells the media he's not letting them asks questions, says the team sucked, and leaves. Now there will be people in here who don't care about that and will defend him by saying the team did suck what did you want him to say. But there are responsibilities that come with being a professional coach, and there's a way you should conduct yourself when you're a professional. Torts asks it of his players but doesn't hold himself to the same standard. As a fan it's an insult to have your coach come out there after a performance like last night and refuse to take questions. It's embarrassing. Stand there like a man and answer the damn questions. It's your job.



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Originally Posted by truebluegoalie View Post
and he has been doing that crap since he got here and is one of the things that has annoyed me since came back. So my opinion of him is based on more than the 6 games this season and is not reactionary at all. I have had enough of his line juggling his dump and chase bs that doesn't and hasn't worked since he got here and his hypocrisy when it comes to accountability.

The season is early and I am not on a ledge or giving up on the season but Torts tenure has pretty much run its course with me.
Pretty much. He's not getting fired and he shouldn't be fired after a 6 game stretch. But I'm so tired of the act. It's the same nonsense again and again and again. People talk about not liking Avery cause he was a show. Doesn't anyone get that Torts IS Avery in coach form? They're literally the same person. His whole act has gotten pretty tiresome though.


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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
We totaly should have won the the cup four times this season already!!1!1

Omgz fire torts!11

Avery would have had 15 goalz if torts gave him a shot!1!!

That type of post is pretty much the only way you could defend the guy's tenure here.

Oh, and let me guess...I'm supposed to care he won a Stanley Cup in Tampa Bay, right?

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10-23-2011, 12:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Whose fault is it that the 4th line is composed of spare parts?

Gabby and Richards have met your expectations...that's good, cause they're damn good players and have been for their entire careers.

The PP? Again...whose fault?

A lot of these issues fault at Torts' feet. You can't use them as justification for why he shouldn't be at fault, when he's the one who's at fault for them.
If you read my post, you would see that I blamed Torts for the PP.

How come Torts gets blamed for everything but Sather gets a free pass? Roster construction is Sather's domain, and I often see people criticizing Torts for things that are Sather's responsibility. I totally understand when people criticize Torts for strategy, etc... but now saying it's his fault that the 4th line is poorly constructed? I guess Torts is wearing dual hats of coach and GM now....

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Old
10-23-2011, 12:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by truebluegoalie View Post
Jim Schoenfeld
Good God, no.

There's a reason why he hasnt coached in the NHL in a long time. You know he's the last guy you want to hire when his claim to fame is something he yelled at a referee 23 years ago.

Go outside of the Organization, I say. No CHL coach either. A 30-something AHL coach with NHL experience.

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10-23-2011, 12:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
If you read my post, you would see that I blamed Torts for the PP.

How come Torts gets blamed for everything but Sather gets a free pass? Roster construction is Sather's domain, and I often see people criticizing Torts for things that are Sather's responsibility. I totally understand when people criticize Torts for strategy, etc... but now saying it's his fault that the 4th line is poorly constructed? I guess Torts is wearing dual hats of coach and GM now....
Because to neglect the role that Torts plays in his roster is naive. If you pay attention to things it's clear that Torts picked out exactly who he wanted on this team to start the year. He wanted MZA on this team to start the year. He wanted MZA gone. He's the one who made those decisions. He's also the one who puts guys like MZA and EC and soon to be Wolski if he ever plays again on the 4th line.

Torts is the one who said as soon as the offseason came he targeted Rupp.

Torts has a HUGE say in the construction of this roster, and I think it's pretty clear the final say in most situations.

If you want to blame Sather for giving his coach that much free reign, that's fine. But it's been pretty obvious over the course of Torts' tenure that he constructs the roster exactly how he wants it.

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10-23-2011, 12:26 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
If you read my post, you would see that I blamed Torts for the PP.

How come Torts gets blamed for everything but Sather gets a free pass? Roster construction is Sather's domain, and I often see people criticizing Torts for things that are Sather's responsibility. I totally understand when people criticize Torts for strategy, etc... but now saying it's his fault that the 4th line is poorly constructed? I guess Torts is wearing dual hats of coach and GM now....
As much as it pains me to say this I think it is fair to give Sather a pass right now because almost everyone can reasonably agree that the team is heading in the right direction and that is a credit to Sather. I agree personnel decisions aren't Torts fault, but we also don't know how much input he has over who goes to CT and who stays i.e. Avery, MZA. As far as the fourth line goes I didn't like the Rupp signing, didn't think he was needed, I thought the fourth line was fine last year and would have been fine with Feds, Boyle and Prust this year. That would be a perfectly fine checking line. Add the pack line which is essentially a checking line that can throw some offense in there and you have two checking lines. Stepan has done well on the 1st line. Add a third line with WW, EC and MZA and you have four respectable lines.

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10-23-2011, 12:27 PM
  #64
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Hell Avery came out and told us when he got to Hartford that the only thing Torts told him about his demotion was that it was his decision.

We know Sather loves Avery. Sean said he hasn't even spoken to Sather at all. He didn't hear from him when he was sent down or since he's been gone.

Torts is the one who is making most of these roster decisions. Is he running things by Sather? Of course. But Torts is getting exactly who wants on this team.

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10-23-2011, 12:30 PM
  #65
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Does no one read through threadsa anymore...this topic was covered in about 5 different threads ad nauseum. I'd like to pitch in here but geez what can be said that hasnt already been said. We're a few games in. To make a judgement already is stupid. if you have these feelings based on previous years than you likely registered your complaint before several times so why do it yet again?

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10-23-2011, 12:39 PM
  #66
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Like how Joe Torre was great for the Yankees won many World Series but lost 120 games every year while managing the Mets? Torts isnt the right guy fro the Rangers. I want Messier!!!
Soooooo,

You want to replace a Stanley Cup winning coach with a guy who's never coached before and is being groomed for the job of GM?

I'm not a huge Torts fan either but if we're going to replace him it should be for someone BETTER. Not someone we all love due to his legendary status on ice.

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10-23-2011, 12:50 PM
  #67
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It was never time for this coach.

Still, he's here now, and it's insanely early to consider firing him at this point.

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10-23-2011, 12:52 PM
  #68
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i like Torts IMO. it's the team not clicking right now, Torts is a very smart coach and he's firey and i like that, i think he's fine, we just need to get the chemistry going and for the love of GOD do something with EC im sick of seeing him skating around like a retard every night

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10-23-2011, 01:03 PM
  #69
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If the coach loses the locker room, its time to fire him. Letting his personal feelings get in the way of an on ice decision, like the Avery situation, may have broke the camels back. Did you like his post game conference last night? He can't coach his way out of a paper bag, his screaming act has gotten old, and as usual, he refuses to field any questions that may shed light on the idea that he may be part of the problem. I have disliked him from the beginning. Our powerplay sucks because players don't show any creativity. Why? Because they know if you make a mistake, you're done. It was different with Renney, we didn't have the talent we do now. But for a guy who's mantra was "safe is death" ironically, he has bullied his team into doing just that- playing it safe. It is better to lose a close game by playing a series of pushes than it is to gamble and try to win. The man is an ass. I can only imagine what kind of things come out of his mouth behind closed doors. I would be elated if they showed him the door.

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10-23-2011, 01:12 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It was never time for this coach.

Still, he's here now, and it's insanely early to consider firing him at this point.
I'll admit I'm rapidly losing faith in Torts. That said, I don't want to pass judgment on the record of a team missing an all star defenseman and another key defenseman.

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10-23-2011, 01:22 PM
  #71
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If the coach loses the locker room, its time to fire him. Letting his personal feelings get in the way of an on ice decision, like the Avery situation, may have broke the camels back. Did you like his post game conference last night? He can't coach his way out of a paper bag, his screaming act has gotten old, and as usual, he refuses to field any questions that may shed light on the idea that he may be part of the problem. I have disliked him from the beginning. Our powerplay sucks because players don't show any creativity. Why? Because they know if you make a mistake, you're done. It was different with Renney, we didn't have the talent we do now. But for a guy who's mantra was "safe is death" ironically, he has bullied his team into doing just that- playing it safe. It is better to lose a close game by playing a series of pushes than it is to gamble and try to win. The man is an ass. I can only imagine what kind of things come out of his mouth behind closed doors. I would be elated if they showed him the door.
...sometimes I wish these boards had a "like" button...

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10-23-2011, 01:27 PM
  #72
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Read this, for the love of god.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

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10-23-2011, 01:29 PM
  #73
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Regarding the press conference - did anybody actually need further explanation of what the team did badly after watching that full game?

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10-23-2011, 01:32 PM
  #74
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I say get rid of Richards, he has done nothing.
I guess leading the team in points is nothing....

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10-23-2011, 01:36 PM
  #75
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Go outside of the Organization, I say. No CHL coach either. A 30-something AHL coach with NHL experience.
Kirk Muller.

Would be very happy to see him as coach.

But, for now, I don't see Torts going anywhere.

If this team is still >.500 in 3-4 weeks, then maybe...but, until then, we'll have to make due with Torts, IMO.

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