HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Will Bryzgalov ever be worth his contract?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-23-2011, 02:47 PM
  #26
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Don't even bother. This discussion happened like ten times during the offseason. Be prepared to hear a thousand "I KNOW VOKOUN WOULD HAVE SIGNED FOR LESS HERE AND NO ONE ELSE WOULD HAVE OFFERED BRYZ THAT BIG OF A CONTRACT!" and so forth and so on.
Were we proven wrong? No. we weren't.

Edit: before bryz was signed, several of us pointed out that it was inevitable that bryz would be expensive, especially with how the organization handled things. We pointed out that vokoun could be had for less and for a shorter term. We were proven right.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.

Last edited by Beef Invictus: 10-23-2011 at 02:52 PM.
Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 02:49 PM
  #27
BleedOrange
BuildThroughTheDraft
 
BleedOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oshawa Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
He will be worth his contract when Lavi gets his head outta his ass and figures out how to set up lines.

Not that I think Schenn is a bad player by any stretch but we were winning just fine without him. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Simple as that.
Schenn is not the problem get over it hes here and he was the better flyer last night agian...........

BleedOrange is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 02:52 PM
  #28
BleedOrange
BuildThroughTheDraft
 
BleedOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oshawa Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
He'll be worth it. Bryzgalov has mentioned that he hasn't hit a groove yet and that once he settles down, he'll be fine. I think the fact that he's facing less shots than he's used to might be something. A lot of goalies who are used to facing a lot of rubber seem to have a difficult transition to when shots are fewer and further between. I know during the preseason that Bryzgalov mentioned his feet got cold waiting for shots.
And it would be nice if his dman cleared the front of the net and took the puck when he left it for them and got out of the way and let him see the shot instead of standing there and let it deflect off them and into the net.........

BleedOrange is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 02:53 PM
  #29
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
are you serious? do you actually think we were the only team out there that would have offered Bryz the contract he signed with us?

He was by far the best goalie available and you bet your ass that if he would have hit the open market, his contract would have probably been worse than what he got from us
Are you watching the same league as I am? Where was this great need for a goalie like Bryzgalov? Besides the Flyers the only teams that needed goalies were Colorado, Florida, Phoenix, and you can throw Washington in there.

Phoenix has monetary issues and had no interest in spending that much on him which is why they let him walk.

Florida is a cap floor team and were not going to hand out that contract.

Colorado is a rebuilding team and had no interest in such a deal. They traded for a young goalie that can grow with their team.

Washington is at the cap and couldn't afford to offer more than they paid Vokoun. They really didn't even need a goalie, but Vokoun was too good for them to pass up.

No one had the need or money to spend anywhere close to what the Flyers did. The Flyers were bidding against themselves. There was zero reason to sign that contract except they were impatient.

Haute Couturier is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 02:57 PM
  #30
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Are you watching the same league as I am? Where was this great need for a goalie like Bryzgalov? Besides the Flyers the only teams that needed goalies were Colorado, Florida, Phoenix, and you can throw Washington in there.

Phoenix has monetary issues and had no interest in spending that much on him which is why they let him walk.

Florida is a cap floor team and were not going to hand out that contract.

Colorado is a rebuilding team and had no interest in such a deal. They traded for a young goalie that can grow with their team.

Washington is at the cap and couldn't afford to offer more than they paid Vokoun. They really didn't even need a goalie, but Vokoun was too good for them to pass up.

No one had the need or money to spend anywhere close to what the Flyers did. The Flyers were bidding against themselves. There was zero reason to sign that contract except they were impatient.
There was Tampa bay too, but they were far more concerned with using their resources to keep stamkos

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 02:58 PM
  #31
Left Circle OneTimer
Registered User
 
Left Circle OneTimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 2,081
vCash: 500
2 Bad games where the majority of goals scored were impossible for any goaltender to stop and all of a sudden he sucks.

Left Circle OneTimer is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 02:59 PM
  #32
Philadelphia Ducks
#BringBackBob
 
Philadelphia Ducks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,248
vCash: 500
Bryz was brought in to win a cup. If the team wins a cup with him being the starter then it would be worth the contract.

Philadelphia Ducks is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:05 PM
  #33
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
2 Bad games where the majority of goals scored were impossible for any goaltender to stop and all of a sudden he sucks.
He doesn't suck. His contract sucks.

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:13 PM
  #34
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Are you watching the same league as I am? Where was this great need for a goalie like Bryzgalov? Besides the Flyers the only teams that needed goalies were Colorado, Florida, Phoenix, and you can throw Washington in there.

Phoenix has monetary issues and had no interest in spending that much on him which is why they let him walk.

Florida is a cap floor team and were not going to hand out that contract.

Colorado is a rebuilding team and had no interest in such a deal. They traded for a young goalie that can grow with their team.

Washington is at the cap and couldn't afford to offer more than they paid Vokoun. They really didn't even need a goalie, but Vokoun was too good for them to pass up.

No one had the need or money to spend anywhere close to what the Flyers did. The Flyers were bidding against themselves. There was zero reason to sign that contract except they were impatient.
All speculation. And how do you know that the flyers were the only team actively pursuing Bryzgalov? You don't, and we'll probably never have all the information. So now your just making up stuff that while sounds good, has zero actual proof behind it. What about Tampa? They could sure have used a goalie like Bryz to solve their long term issues? There could have been a team that was unhappy with their current goalie, and thought that Bryz represented a better option. If the Flyer's management felt that they needed to get a deal done, then they probably were aware of what was going on.

To the op, the contract may never be worth it. But, winning a Stanley Cup would go a long way.

flyershockey is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:16 PM
  #35
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
There was Tampa bay too, but they were far more concerned with using their resources to keep stamkos
Yeah, they didn't have cap space for that contract if they wanted to re-sign Stamkos.

So despite whatever fairy tales DrinkFightFlyers prefers to believe, it's easy to say no one else would have signed him to that deal. The money and demand wasn't there. That's why Vokoun ended up signing for so little. Anyone could figure this out with a few minutes of research.

Haute Couturier is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:20 PM
  #36
ShawnTHW
@ShawnTHW
 
ShawnTHW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 8,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
Schenn is not the problem get over it hes here and he was the better flyer last night agian...........
Never said he was the problem. I said why change a winning formula?

ShawnTHW is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:29 PM
  #37
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
All speculation. And how do you know that the flyers were the only team actively pursuing Bryzgalov? You don't, and we'll probably never have all the information. So now your just making up stuff that while sounds good, has zero actual proof behind it. What about Tampa? They could sure have used a goalie like Bryz to solve their long term issues? There could have been a team that was unhappy with their current goalie, and thought that Bryz represented a better option. If the Flyer's management felt that they needed to get a deal done, then they probably were aware of what was going on.

To the op, the contract may never be worth it. But, winning a Stanley Cup would go a long way.
Tampa re-signed Roloson before July 1 so they did not need a goalie in free agency. They also did not have the cap space for Bryzgalov when Stamkos' deal was factored in.

The only information you need is what teams are committed to goalies and what teams are not. It's fairly basic stuff.

Anaheim - Hiller
Boston - Thomas/Rask
Buffalo - Miller
Calgary - Kiprusoff
Carolina - Ward
Chicago - Crawford
Columbus - Mason
Dallas - Lehtonen
Detroit - Howard
Edmonton - Khabibulin/Dubnyk
Los Angeles - Quick/Bernier
Minnesota - Backstrom
Montreal - Price
Nashville - Rinne
New Jersey - Brodeur
Islanders - DiPietro/Nabokov/Montoya
Rangers - Lundqvist
Ottawa - Anderson
Pittsburgh - Fleury
San Jose - Niemi
St. Louis - Halak
Tampa - Roloson
Toronto - Reimer
Vancouver - Luongo/Schneider
Winnipeg - Pavelec/Mason

That leaves the teams that I mentioned and they did not have the money to spend for the reasons I mentioned. No one was going to sign Bryzgalov to that deal except the Flyers.

Haute Couturier is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:32 PM
  #38
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Were we proven wrong? No. we weren't.

Edit: before bryz was signed, several of us pointed out that it was inevitable that bryz would be expensive, especially with how the organization handled things. We pointed out that vokoun could be had for less and for a shorter term. We were proven right.
Yes, he COULD have been had for less, but he wanted to play in Washington. Just because he accepted less money in Washington does not mean he would have done the same here. We've had this discussion already. This isn't NHL 12, just because a player is a free agent doesn't mean he is going to sign with your team because you offer him a contract. Vokoun may have had Washington #1 on his list regardless of money. He may never have had any interest in Philly regardless of money. Pretty sure he said that he took less money and turned down other offers to play in Washington. Go look at the thread about this from a month or two ago so we don't have to get into the same argument. My position hasn't changed and neither has yours.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:39 PM
  #39
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,557
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Tampa re-signed Roloson before July 1 so they did not need a goalie in free agency. They also did not have the cap space for Bryzgalov when Stamkos' deal was factored in.

The only information you need is what teams are committed to goalies and what teams are not. It's fairly basic stuff.

Anaheim - Hiller
Boston - Thomas/Rask
Buffalo - Miller
Calgary - Kiprusoff
Carolina - Ward
Chicago - Crawford
Columbus - Mason
Dallas - Lehtonen
Detroit - Howard
Edmonton - Khabibulin/Dubnyk
Los Angeles - Quick/Bernier
Minnesota - Backstrom
Montreal - Price
Nashville - Rinne
New Jersey - Brodeur
Islanders - DiPietro/Nabokov/Montoya
Rangers - Lundqvist
Ottawa - Anderson
Pittsburgh - Fleury
San Jose - Niemi
St. Louis - Halak
Tampa - Roloson
Toronto - Reimer
Vancouver - Luongo/Schneider
Winnipeg - Pavelec/Mason

That leaves the teams that I mentioned and they did not have the money to spend for the reasons I mentioned. No one was going to sign Bryzgalov to that deal except the Flyers.
And Bryz is better than a majority of the goalies on that list. You know, it is possible that a team would try to upgrade and grab a player of Bryz's level is he were to become available. Honestly, like I said before, nobody actually knows what the market was for Bryz in the offseason. We can speculate all day, but if the Flyers felt that this is what would have to be done in order to get a deal done, then I would think that they knew what they were doing. Especially considering they can get a better feel for what the market is.

Btw, I'm not even trying to defend signing him to that money and term. I think it's absurd to sign any player to a nine year deal for a variety of reasons. I would have easily agreed to sign him for 4-5 years though. The only thing I wanted to point out was everything you had written can only be called speculation at best.

flyershockey is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:45 PM
  #40
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yes, he COULD have been had for less, but he wanted to play in Washington. Just because he accepted less money in Washington does not mean he would have done the same here. We've had this discussion already. This isn't NHL 12, just because a player is a free agent doesn't mean he is going to sign with your team because you offer him a contract. Vokoun may have had Washington #1 on his list regardless of money. He may never have had any interest in Philly regardless of money. Pretty sure he said that he took less money and turned down other offers to play in Washington. Go look at the thread about this from a month or two ago so we don't have to get into the same argument. My position hasn't changed and neither has yours.
We could have easily outbid Washington and stolen him. He had no choice in the matter. If he had other options that could have paid more, I doubt he'd be a cap. Do you really think he had his heart set on a contract lower than Leighton's?

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:51 PM
  #41
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Tampa re-signed Roloson before July 1 so they did not need a goalie in free agency. They also did not have the cap space for Bryzgalov when Stamkos' deal was factored in.

The only information you need is what teams are committed to goalies and what teams are not. It's fairly basic stuff.

Anaheim - Hiller
Boston - Thomas/Rask
Buffalo - Miller
Calgary - Kiprusoff
Carolina - Ward
Chicago - Crawford
Columbus - Mason
Dallas - Lehtonen
Detroit - Howard
Edmonton - Khabibulin/Dubnyk
Los Angeles - Quick/Bernier
Minnesota - Backstrom
Montreal - Price
Nashville - Rinne
New Jersey - Brodeur
Islanders - DiPietro/Nabokov/Montoya
Rangers - Lundqvist
Ottawa - Anderson
Pittsburgh - Fleury
San Jose - Niemi
St. Louis - Halak
Tampa - Roloson
Toronto - Reimer
Vancouver - Luongo/Schneider
Winnipeg - Pavelec/Mason

That leaves the teams that I mentioned and they did not have the money to spend for the reasons I mentioned. No one was going to sign Bryzgalov to that deal except the Flyers.
While I agree with this, There is also another option. Bryz goes to Russia for 5 mill per and then possibly us an Washington end up both going for Vokoun. This creates a bidding war for him, and if we lose out, then we have Bob and we listen to EVERYONE ***** how we would not pay $ to have a top 8-10 goalie again.

Tripod is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:54 PM
  #42
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
While I agree with this, There is also another option. Bryz goes to Russia for 5 mill per and then possibly us an Washington end up both going for Vokoun. This creates a bidding war for him, and if we lose out, then we have Bob and we listen to EVERYONE ***** how we would not pay $ to have a top 8-10 goalie again.
We would have won a bidding war with Washington. They had much less room to work with.

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:54 PM
  #43
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We could have easily outbid Washington and stolen him. He had no choice in the matter. If he had other options that could have paid more, I doubt he'd be a cap. Do you really think he had his heart set on a contract lower than Leighton's?
Hey I'm certainly not saying he couldn't have signed here, but there is no reason to act as if it is a foregone conclusion. Maybe he would have accepted a $4 million offer. Or maybe he wanted to play for Washington because he doesn't care about money all he wants is a Cup and he thinks the Caps have the best shot (that's pretty much what he said in his interview). Or perhaps the Flyers thought Bryz is a better goalie and a $2.5 million difference in cap hit (assuming they were going to offer around $4 million) is worth it for the better goalie. Maybe if they go into free agency and neither are signed there is a bidding war for one or both with a different team and wind up giving the same contract to Bryz or overpaying for Vokoun. Maybe they straight up had no interest in Vokoun. Don't act like this is a simple thing and they "botched" it by not getting Vokoun. There is a lot more at play than just "Well he accepted $1.5 to play in Washington so he would have signed here."

DrinkFightFlyers is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 03:55 PM
  #44
BleedOrange
BuildThroughTheDraft
 
BleedOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oshawa Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
Bryz will be fine once him and the D get their **** straight.......

BleedOrange is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 04:04 PM
  #45
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Hey I'm certainly not saying he couldn't have signed here, but there is no reason to act as if it is a foregone conclusion. Maybe he would have accepted a $4 million offer. Or maybe he wanted to play for Washington because he doesn't care about money all he wants is a Cup and he thinks the Caps have the best shot (that's pretty much what he said in his interview). Or perhaps the Flyers thought Bryz is a better goalie and a $2.5 million difference in cap hit (assuming they were going to offer around $4 million) is worth it for the better goalie. Maybe if they go into free agency and neither are signed there is a bidding war for one or both with a different team and wind up giving the same contract to Bryz or overpaying for Vokoun. Maybe they straight up had no interest in Vokoun. Don't act like this is a simple thing and they "botched" it by not getting Vokoun. There is a lot more at play than just "Well he accepted $1.5 to play in Washington so he would have signed here."
I have a strong feeling that people will wish we had gone the vokoun route when bryz is 37.

AS For him wanting to play for the caps, who's to say that isn't a lot of fluff for the media? The bidding war scenario is pretty pointless as well, since it flat out didn't happen. The fact remains: we predicted vokoun could be had for a better contract, and that's what happened.

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 04:09 PM
  #46
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,821
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
With all the 2 on 1's against him we are lucky he doesn't give up more then 5 goals each game

flyersfan187 is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 04:11 PM
  #47
CSKA1974
Registered User
 
CSKA1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyerville
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I have a strong feeling that people will wish we had gone the vokoun route when bryz is 37.

AS For him wanting to play for the caps, who's to say that isn't a lot of fluff for the media? The bidding war scenario is pretty pointless as well, since it flat out didn't happen. The fact remains: we predicted vokoun could be had for a better contract, and that's what happened.
We would never know the real reasons for Vokoun not even being in the picture last Summer.

My suspicion that Vokoun turned Flyers interest down and may be wanted to test free agency. After that Flyers aquired Bryz's rights.

Did the Flyers jump the gun on Bryz? Most likely, but I think having his balls against the wall, Homer was affraid to end up with neither goalie and overpaid severely (either with cap hit or with years of the contract).

But, it's too soon to call Bryz a bust.

CSKA1974 is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 04:14 PM
  #48
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
If the question is "will he ever be worth his cap hit in any one season?" the answer could very well be yes. If he has a fantastic, Vezina type year, yea you might be able to justify that much money.

If the question is "will he ever be worth his ENTIRE contract?" the answer is no. It's just next to impossible that he plays at a high enough level for that long.

That said, I'm not one that is anti-Bryz. I'm thrilled to have him in the fold and to not have to worry about the goaltending. That said, it clearly isn't a good contract. It was the price they wanted to pay to never have to worry about it for the forseeable future.

DUHockey9 is offline  
Old
10-23-2011, 04:19 PM
  #49
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I have a strong feeling that people will wish we had gone the vokoun route when bryz is 37.
I'm not really arguing that, however, at least in my mind, if we win a Cup during his time here, I don't care what they pay him for how long.

Quote:
AS For him wanting to play for the caps, who's to say that isn't a lot of fluff for the media?
Yeah it's just as likely he's fluffing it up for the media as it is that he is telling the truth, that's why I'm saying it is not a foregone conclusion that he would have come here for any amount of money.

Quote:
The bidding war scenario is pretty pointless as well, since it flat out didn't happen.
Well there was no bidding war because Bryz was already signed. Do I need to get back into an explanation of speculation? If everyone was available, there was a possibility that someone else would have made an offer and driven up the price. Was it likely? Not sure. Just because it was possible doesn't mean it would have happened, but it could have, which makes it pointless to act as if you know what would have happened.

Quote:
The fact remains: we predicted Vokoun could be had for a better contract, and that's what happened.
I don't think anyone was arguing that Vokoun wouldn't sign for less than Bryz. Most people believe Bryz is the better goalie, so he would presumably get more money. I think the argument is that just because Vokoun signed for less in Washington doesn't mean the Flyers would have gotten him if they offered him a contract.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now  
Old
10-23-2011, 04:24 PM
  #50
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,661
vCash: 156
Dff, do you really want to continue this? If you do, I'll respond...but right now its clearly just the exact same debate being reenacted with nothing new to be said. I personally don't really want to bother, especially since I'm stuck on my phone

Beef Invictus is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.