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Will the Bleeding end? Montreal Canadiens vs Florida Panthers 10/24/11 7:30pm EST-RDS

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Old
10-24-2011, 11:29 AM
  #101
Bill McNeal
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You realize that "Jose Threeormore" currently has a .913 save percentage and three times as many wins as the entire Habs team does, right?

Probably wise to not throw stones in glass houses.
These past 6 games certainly make up for years of sub-par play.

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10-24-2011, 11:29 AM
  #102
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Wow, Emelin sitting will not "soften" the defense... He's been as physical as Gorges ffs.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Yeah I love how people bring up Emelin and say our team is softer by him not being there. He hasn't been that physical at all.
Really?

Emelin: 14 hits. 1st in defensemen, 3rd overall on the team.
Gorges: 5 hits. Tied for 3rd in defensemen, tied for 9th overall on the team.

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10-24-2011, 11:31 AM
  #103
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I don't get the reasoning behind comparing pts totals for the D. Emelin hasn't had any serious PP time compared to Weber and Diaz, so comparing pts totals is useless.

Emelin has been a big body presence, and has been making some of our best transition passes all year. He does everything Gill does (while doing it better) and adds alot more offensively as well.

Subban-Gorges (both these guys need to play better, but you aren't going to sit either of them so...)
Gill-Diaz (this pairing is incredibly weak by NHL standards. As a fan I like both players, but defensively this pairing is going to get wrecked.)
Spacek-Weber (this will be fine, and unlike others here I'm glad Spacek is back.)

Logically, one of Gill or Diaz should be sitting. I guess if Martin is going to be rotating guys in and out of the press box on D, it makes more sense to have the bigger body playing games vs. Boston and Philly though. So if its just for 1 game, whatever. If its a regular occurance I'll be dissapointed. (Can't wait to see us win and then make no changes because Martin never changes the lineup after a win. )

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10-24-2011, 11:33 AM
  #104
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Really?

Emelin: 14 hits. 1st in defensemen, 3rd overall on the team.
Gorges: 5 hits. Tied for 3rd in defensemen, tied for 9th overall on the team.
Stats pfffft !

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Old
10-24-2011, 11:34 AM
  #105
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I agree Emelin has not exactly done enough to secure a spot in our D.

But if we only look at their offensive production to judge who deserves to play on the blue line they might as well send him back to Kazan

Overall I'm fine with Spacek back in the lineup, and as some of you pointed out it would be hard to sit any of our young Ds considering what they showed so far. They have been one of the few bright spots early this season.

Anyway, GO HABS GO! Our team (still) needs some support

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10-24-2011, 11:34 AM
  #106
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Really?

Emelin: 14 hits. 1st in defensemen, 3rd overall on the team.
Gorges: 5 hits. Tied for 3rd in defensemen, tied for 9th overall on the team.
Gorges doesn't hit but doesn't mean he isn't physical. He plays the body. People have to realize that physicality != hits, same with the stupid argument that grittiness/physicality is equal to the number of fighting majors.





EDIT: Nevermind, I'm terrible at writing today


Last edited by ThaDevilGirl: 10-24-2011 at 12:02 PM.
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10-24-2011, 11:35 AM
  #107
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i don't want the bleeding to end, i want Martin and PG out.

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10-24-2011, 11:35 AM
  #108
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Good lord is Emelin hyped up around here.

Who do you guys want JM to sit?
Gill? Even though there's not a chance of that happening.

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10-24-2011, 11:35 AM
  #109
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Should have benched Weber. Emelin would be a good play next to Spacek.

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10-24-2011, 11:40 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
Gorges doesn't hit but doesn't mean he isn't physical. He plays the body. People have to realize that physicality != hits, same with the stupid argument that grittiness/physicality is equal to the number of fighting majors.
You said "Emelin's been as physical as Gorges ffs" and now you're saying that Gorges is very physical... So that means that Emelin is also very physical? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. And I'm sorry, but hitting does equal physicality.

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10-24-2011, 11:45 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
Wow, Emelin sitting will not "soften" the defense... He's been as physical as Gorges ffs.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Yeah I love how people bring up Emelin and say our team is softer by him not being there. He hasn't been that physical at all.
Thank god you guys see that too. I was beginning to think I was looking at the wrong guy or something.

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10-24-2011, 11:54 AM
  #112
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You said "Emelin's been as physical as Gorges ffs" and now you're saying that Gorges is very physical... So that means that Emelin is also very physical? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. And I'm sorry, but hitting does equal physicality.
Yeah, sorry about that. Got mixed up.

In the end what I mean is that Emelin hasn't been noticeable enough and much better than the other young d-men to have a safe spot on the lineup. Had it been Weber or Diaz who would get benched people would complain anyway. As much as HF wants to see rookies play every game you know Spacek and Gill will be valuable down the stretch (if they ever get there...) and they need playing time too. The season is far from over.

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Old
10-24-2011, 11:59 AM
  #113
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Gorges is most effective being a positional d-man... He's not a big hitter, but he's the defensively responsible, not caught in the wrong position d-man.

Emelin IS a physical d-man. He's learning the NA game, but IMO when he gets comfortable I believe it will be even more apparent. His style is to physically rip the puck away from the player.

Problem is, Emelin was playing his game in preseason, and Martin thought the hits, while being nice, were not effective in stopping rushes. He's been told to be more cautious, and it shows.

There's a very big difference between the 2 though.

Gorges can and will have a long career playing his style. Emelin will rather be a star, or crash and burn. His body will give way in the years to come, but by then, these guys usually develop the reputation to slow it down a bit and play more of a responsible game.

Both are valuable, and both are serviceable. Gorges game is more void of emotion than Emelin's game... Which seems to thrive on it.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:08 PM
  #114
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17-1 Panthers.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Really?

Emelin: 14 hits. 1st in defensemen, 3rd overall on the team.
Gorges: 5 hits. Tied for 3rd in defensemen, tied for 9th overall on the team.
I never stated that he doesn't hit, but people make it sound like he adds a Pronger element to our squad or something. Plus a lot of his hits have been basically non-factors. Baby taps and such. It isn't like he's known for doing some major big league collisions that are causing turnovers left and right.

Not trying to say Emelin won't become a solid D in his career I think he will, but these stats aren't very telling of how he's actually played. He hasn't been a strong physical presence, he's done a fair number of hits sure but he hasn't been great out there. He's been alright and that's fine given where he is in his development, but people make it sound like he adds a huge dynamic to our team, some where down the line he will but right now he's easily replaced by a fringe player even.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:14 PM
  #116
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Praying for Florida to blow us out.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:14 PM
  #117
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I don't know what games you guys watched but Weber was practically the best Dmen of the group and now he's playing forward? Genius!

Also, Emelin played better than Diaz, there is no doubt in my mind. I don't see how Diaz can be in the line-up while Emelin is in the pressbox. I've had it with JM and his stupid decision. Weber on the 4th ****ing line? COME ON!

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:17 PM
  #118
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I never stated that he doesn't hit, but people make it sound like he adds a Pronger element to our squad or something. Plus a lot of his hits have been basically non-factors. Baby taps and such. It isn't like he's known for doing some major big league collisions that are causing turnovers left and right.

Not trying to say Emelin won't become a solid D in his career I think he will, but these stats aren't very telling of how he's actually played. He hasn't been a strong physical presence, he's done a fair number of hits sure but he hasn't been great out there. He's been alright and that's fine given where he is in his development, but people make it sound like he adds a huge dynamic to our team, some where down the line he will but right now he's easily replaced by a fringe player even.
He's been told by Martin to settle down. It's quite apparent from his first appearances in training camp, to pre-season to the regular season. IMO when he gets comfortable, those big hits will return to his repertoire. But IMO I think he's been told to play more responsibly, because with the smaller ice rinks, and the faster league, he's got to get the play down first. Then he can focus on being a big hitter again. He's got the talent to be it. It's an inner drive, it's not skill.

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10-24-2011, 12:18 PM
  #119
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I don't know what games you guys watched but Weber was practically the best Dmen of the group and now he's playing forward? Genius!

Also, Emelin played better than Diaz, there is no doubt in my mind. I don't see how Diaz can be in the line-up while Emelin is in the pressbox. I've had it with JM and his stupid decision. Weber on the 4th ****ing line? COME ON!
Trouble is, Emelin has not been better than Diaz.

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10-24-2011, 12:20 PM
  #120
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I don't know what games you guys watched but Weber was practically the best Dmen of the group and now he's playing forward? Genius!

Also, Emelin played better than Diaz, there is no doubt in my mind. I don't see how Diaz can be in the line-up while Emelin is in the pressbox. I've had it with JM and his stupid decision. Weber on the 4th ****ing line? COME ON!
Martin said it himself the other day, he's waiting for Steckel to come back so he can send Diaz on him... that'll learn him.

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Old
10-24-2011, 12:20 PM
  #121
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Emelin has been good but you can't scratch Diaz or Weber to keep him in as both have been better.

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10-24-2011, 12:21 PM
  #122
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I don't know what games you guys watched but Weber was practically the best Dmen of the group and now he's playing forward? Genius!

Also, Emelin played better than Diaz, there is no doubt in my mind. I don't see how Diaz can be in the line-up while Emelin is in the pressbox. I've had it with JM and his stupid decision. Weber on the 4th ****ing line? COME ON!
I agree with you on Weber but disagree with you on Diaz.

Diaz I find has a more adaptable style to our team and the NA game. Emelin will need more time because he's more of a physical defensive D. Sure he has a shot, but he's mainly the kind of guy who will be played as a two-way D. He'll need to learn a lot first, hitting without losing positioning, playing defense against top players in the league, positioning in general. Diaz will more-so have to learn shooting, passing, sure defense is a factor but as long as he isn't noticeable defensively he's doing a good job type of D.

Emelin in my eyes will be the type of D who you will notice on D down the line, because unlike Gorges who is purely a positional D Emelin is physical and will knock people off the puck etc.

Diaz is a fit for "right now" imo because he's developed more quickly in his areas than Emelin has.

Emelin will get his chance, but he needs time. Don't forget when Markov comes back Emelin will likely get a shot at the top line. They're gradually working him into playing the defensive side of the game, they don't want to ruin his confidence.

We all know what can happen to a player like him if you aren't gradual or you don't have a leash and he goes and picks a fight with Lucic. Let the kid learn the game, no doubt in my mind all three of them can be top 4 D in the league but they're all different players, in my eyes the "right now" choice is to sit Emelin.

Doesn't mean down the line one of Diaz or Weber won't be taken out or traded. Emelin brings an element this team needs, he just isn't playing up to even his own standards yet and I can't blame him he's new to the NHL. Some guys are quicker to adapt than others. No need to rush him by playing him every night, right now he's working on areas of his game that are best worked on during practice rather than during actual games where he goes for a big hit (hypothetical) and costs us a goal going so far out of position.

Thus far he's played it very safe which is good. He doesn't want to make mistakes. Once he grows as a player and gains confidence he'll be fine. No need to worry about him being benched, imo the right decision was made. Diaz and Weber have both played better than he has.

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10-24-2011, 12:24 PM
  #123
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Gill? Even though there's not a chance of that happening.
that would be stupid. Gill is way more important than Emelin.

Look, I like Emelin a lot, but he's the odd man out.

Gill, Subban, Gorges, Spacek. No chance any of them sit.

Weber and Diaz have both been very, very good. They're not sitting either.

If Florida was a bigger, more physical team, you could make a case to give Diaz some rest... but they're not. Maybe against Boston or Philadelphia..

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10-24-2011, 12:26 PM
  #124
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that would be stupid. Gill is way more important than Emelin.

Look, I like Emelin a lot, but he's the odd man out.

Gill, Subban, Gorges, Spacek. No chance any of them sit.

Weber and Diaz have both been very, very good. They're not sitting either.

If Florida was a bigger, more physical team, you could make a case to give Diaz some rest... but they're not. Maybe against Boston or Philadelphia..
...or we dress 7 defencemen and sit Darche. Spacek probably isn't 100%, and Gill is old. No need to overplay those guys.

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10-24-2011, 12:29 PM
  #125
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I agree with you on Weber but disagree with you on Diaz.

Diaz I find has a more adaptable style to our team and the NA game. Emelin will need more time because he's more of a physical defensive D. Sure he has a shot, but he's mainly the kind of guy who will be played as a two-way D. He'll need to learn a lot first, hitting without losing positioning, playing defense against top players in the league, positioning in general. Diaz will more-so have to learn shooting, passing, sure defense is a factor but as long as he isn't noticeable defensively he's doing a good job type of D.

Emelin in my eyes will be the type of D who you will notice on D down the line, because unlike Gorges who is purely a positional D Emelin is physical and will knock people off the puck etc.

Diaz is a fit for "right now" imo because he's developed more quickly in his areas than Emelin has.

Emelin will get his chance, but he needs time. Don't forget when Markov comes back Emelin will likely get a shot at the top line. They're gradually working him into playing the defensive side of the game, they don't want to ruin his confidence.

We all know what can happen to a player like him if you aren't gradual or you don't have a leash and he goes and picks a fight with Lucic. Let the kid learn the game, no doubt in my mind all three of them can be top 4 D in the league but they're all different players, in my eyes the "right now" choice is to sit Emelin.

Doesn't mean down the line one of Diaz or Weber won't be taken out or traded. Emelin brings an element this team needs, he just isn't playing up to even his own standards yet and I can't blame him he's new to the NHL. Some guys are quicker to adapt than others. No need to rush him by playing him every night, right now he's working on areas of his game that are best worked on during practice rather than during actual games where he goes for a big hit (hypothetical) and costs us a goal going so far out of position.

Thus far he's played it very safe which is good. He doesn't want to make mistakes. Once he grows as a player and gains confidence he'll be fine. No need to worry about him being benched, imo the right decision was made. Diaz and Weber have both played better than he has.
Very much agreed upon sir

Emelin has been the least effective of the three...

I think the panic comes from the fact that he has an out clause in his contract, and so many of us were waiting for so long for him to come over.

He'll get his turn though.

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