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2012 Draft Thread (Draft Lottery 4/10 8PM on NBC Sports)

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Old
10-24-2011, 07:20 PM
  #26
Jovavic
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When does first "tier" end, after four players? If so, we pick fifth

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10-24-2011, 07:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by plong123 View Post
The smart thing would be to win some frakking games so the season ticket holders don't strike en masse. To think I am still paying off my tickets for this season while a team of professionals tanks is unconscionable. If this team "gives up" on the year, publicly, in any way, I will never watch another CBJ game.
So, you'd rather they win some more meaningless games and then we go through this mess again next year, same bat time, same bat channel?



I for one am sick of Groundhog Day.

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10-24-2011, 07:51 PM
  #28
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The best way to build a contender is to go for complete ineptitude for 3-4 years and get top three picks a la Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago. John Buccigross wrote in one of his columns around 6-7 years ago is that by having a moderately successful (by expansion standards) first season they robbed themselves of a blue chip prospect in the second season.

With that being said, I would hate to see our arena with smaller than Chill crowds if they do take that course.

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10-24-2011, 08:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
So, you'd rather they win some more meaningless games and then we go through this mess again next year, same bat time, same bat channel?



I for one am sick of Groundhog Day.
right? you know what the difference between our suck is and the suck of now powerhouse teams like pittsburgh and chicago is? they committed to their suck while we find a way to battle out of the top 3.

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Old
10-24-2011, 08:37 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Feicht View Post
I could not agree more. It blows my mind every single season when this team goes on a winning streak in like March and everyone says "this is the best thing for the team... end the season on a winning note!", completely ignoring the fact that this always happens, and is one of the biggest reasons the Jackets have been stuck in mediocrity for 10 years.
It's pretty hard to have a worse March/April than we did last year, so I wouldn't say they played themselves out of a good pick at the end.

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10-24-2011, 08:45 PM
  #31
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It's pretty hard to have a worse March/April than we did last year, so I wouldn't say they played themselves out of a good pick at the end.
no, then they were playing themselves out of the playoffs..... we always find that area between top shelf picks and playoffs and that isn't a good thing.

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10-24-2011, 10:20 PM
  #32
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When does first "tier" end, after four players? If so, we pick fifth
Slight drop after Yakupov, but really there are 8-10 guys who could make a case for themselves as top-5 picks. I think by season's end, we'll know more. This draft is similar to the 2005 draft (Crosby) ... not comparing Yakupov to Crosby by any means, but he's the standout, and there are a number of guys that could be very high or fall down a ways (Ryan at #2, Kopitar at #11). It'll be interesting to see how things go.

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10-24-2011, 10:35 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
So, you'd rather they win some more meaningless games and then we go through this mess again next year, same bat time, same bat channel?



I for one am sick of Groundhog Day.
I am too, but I am also fundamentally against quitting the season after 8 games. The very idea is preposterous.

Sorry, I hope they turn it around. I don't give a damn where they draft.

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10-25-2011, 10:10 AM
  #34
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I'm glad we have STH'ers that will still drop money to see this team play everynight (or at least to assure that they have a seat to see it everynight), but that said, we've been hearing the same, tired routine of "The STH'ers are ready to strike" for a few seasons now and in the end, about the same amount reup every season.... Every year we get the "STH'ers: Are you renewing?" thread and for all the bluster, most, if not all still renew. This team lost the casual STH right before MacLean was fired.

This team isn't going to see a drastic drop again in STHers, the only people left renewing packages are the diehards....

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10-25-2011, 10:15 AM
  #35
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I am too, but I am also fundamentally against quitting the season after 8 games. The very idea is preposterous.

Sorry, I hope they turn it around. I don't give a damn where they draft.
Tell me at what point you get realistic then.

We go through this every year with dead enders that insist that a win against Winnipeg is so special to them that they will sacrifice a player that could ultimately deliver us a Stanley Cup. Yet, if you asked them a year later, I bet they don't remember any of those meaningless wins that were so important to them in the midst of another lost season.

You know what we do all remember? Those front-runner Pens fans invading Nationwide in their Crosby jerseys and sitting atop our Zamboni.

I have a dream that someday a Jackets fan in a Yakupov jersey sits atop the Penguins zamboni...

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10-25-2011, 10:27 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I have a dream that someday a Jackets fan in a Yakupov jersey sits atop the Penguins zamboni...
The problem is if you look at this fanbase which wants the entire staff fired, and every player traded, they'll never let it get to that point. We'll sacrifice this team's future, and trade our 1st rounder here in the next few weeks in order to get the last year on some vet that'll play out the rest of the season, and become a free agent.

But it'll appease the fans.

It's just a shame that the fans never want what's best for this team.

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10-25-2011, 10:34 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
The problem is if you look at this fanbase which wants the entire staff fired, and every player traded, they'll never let it get to that point. We'll sacrifice this team's future, and trade our 1st rounder here in the next few weeks in order to get the last year on some vet that'll play out the rest of the season, and become a free agent.

But it'll appease the fans.

It's just a shame that the fans never want what's best for this team.
The fundamental difference between those teams that consistently sucked to get two or three great top picks and ours (with the exception of Edmonton), is that it got to the point where NOBODY cared about Hockey in those cities, no outcry over coaches and GM's being fired, no outcry over lackluster effort from veteran players, etc.


The "Fail for Nail" must be embraced by the fans, sadly, I don't think it will happen.... We will see another year of subpar hockey, but not bad enough for anything of substance to happen....

The playoffs are a distant memory this season folks, there are only two options left, go with whats gotten you here now (chance at a top pick) or another middling season of 12th or 13th in the conference and the 7th or 8th overall.....

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Old
10-25-2011, 10:39 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
In Sweden, coming into this draft year there was a lot of talk about Filip Forsberg. But the big hype now is for the latest Djurgården prospect (they produced Zibanejad last year) - Pontus Åberg. He's practically leading his SEL team in scoring as an 18 year old.

Åberg plays a similar game as Zibanejad, but has better hands, shot and scoring touch.
I saw him a bit last year at the Hlinka tournament. Actually, he was impossible not to notice. As a rule, I don't put a heck of a lot of stock into a short tournament, but he was impressive.

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Originally Posted by Dudley Poodlehead View Post
The best way to build a contender is to go for complete ineptitude for 3-4 years and get top three picks a la Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago. John Buccigross wrote in one of his columns around 6-7 years ago is that by having a moderately successful (by expansion standards) first season they robbed themselves of a blue chip prospect in the second season.

With that being said, I would hate to see our arena with smaller than Chill crowds if they do take that course.
The 2001 was a pretty weak one as a whole, with the only franchise-type players being #1 (Kovalchuk) and #2 (Spezza).

If you want to get into what's robbed the team of a blue chip prospect, losing the coin flip in 2000 is a good place to start. Or Mike Milbury losing his mind, which stuck the Jackets with Klesla instead of Gaborik, is another place. Or not having any type of vision in 2003....or 2004....or 2005.

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10-25-2011, 10:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Tell me at what point you get realistic then.

We go through this every year with dead enders that insist that a win against Winnipeg is so special to them that they will sacrifice a player that could ultimately deliver us a Stanley Cup. Yet, if you asked them a year later, I bet they don't remember any of those meaningless wins that were so important to them in the midst of another lost season.

You know what we do all remember? Those front-runner Pens fans invading Nationwide in their Crosby jerseys and sitting atop our Zamboni.

I have a dream that someday a Jackets fan in a Yakupov jersey sits atop the Penguins zamboni...
What's changed is that a large-scale rebuild would theoretically be possible. There are plenty of components of the current team that have good value around the league, even if they're grossly unproductive right now.

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10-25-2011, 01:03 PM
  #40
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What's changed is that a large-scale rebuild would theoretically be possible. There are plenty of components of the current team that have good value around the league, even if they're grossly unproductive right now.
Total collapse helped the Pens and Hawks build, but how did the Bruins and Wings win Cups? There must be more ways than one to build a winner. I go into each game hoping for a win and disappointed when they lose. If you can feel better about losing because you see an ultimate benefit down the road, good for you. I'd rather draft late, every year.

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10-25-2011, 01:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Palinka View Post
The 2001 was a pretty weak one as a whole, with the only franchise-type players being #1 (Kovalchuk) and #2 (Spezza).

If you want to get into what's robbed the team of a blue chip prospect, losing the coin flip in 2000 is a good place to start. Or Mike Milbury losing his mind, which stuck the Jackets with Klesla instead of Gaborik, is another place. Or not having any type of vision in 2003....or 2004....or 2005.
Exactly. The only other players taken ahead of Pascal that are still in the NHL are Stephen Weiss, Mikko Koivu, and Mike Komisarek. Koivu being the best, would probably help us the most, and he only went two picks ahead of Pascal. Might be worth noting that we have had a glut of players from that pretty weak draft - this might be our problem

Alexnder Svitov (3rd), Pascal Leclaire (8th), RJ Umberger (16th), Jiri Novotny (20th), Tim "First line winger" Jackman (38th), Fedor Tyutin (40th), Nathan Paetsch (58th) ... that doesn't include Kiel McLeod, our future franchise centerman that we also selected in the second round.

Honestly, there were some pretty good players to come out of that draft, just not as many in the first round as you normally see.

As for our draft blunders/bad luck in other years, we certainly dropped the ball through the Doug McLean years. I still have belief in Scott Howson's drafting/development, personally.

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Old
10-25-2011, 02:05 PM
  #42
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can an outsider ask you a question? with your arena less than full during a lot of games, and with management trading for Jeff Carter in an effort to try to win now, get to the playoffs, and try to show some good faith to season ticket holders and the ticket buying fans in general, do you think it's a good idea to " Fail For Nail " ?

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10-25-2011, 02:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
can an outsider ask you a question? with your arena less than full during a lot of games, and with management trading for Jeff Carter in an effort to try to win now, get to the playoffs, and try to show some good faith to season ticket holders and the ticket buying fans in general, do you think it's a good idea to " Fail For Nail " ?
Unfortunately that effort now appears to be a complete failure. The Jackets have become irrelevent and lack all credibility. If they announced they were moving it would make news for 2 to 3 days, I doubt any more - seriously. The fans have been chased away by all the losing. Over the past 11 years we've had high draft picks, changed coaches numerous times and changed GMs but the results are still the same. Drastic changes are necessary. Priest AND Howson must go and let Arniel's fate be desided by their successor. The team needs to be gutted and then rebuilt; without question.

The team's motto this year is "Earn IT". Can "Fail for Nail" be worse?

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10-25-2011, 02:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
can an outsider ask you a question? with your arena less than full during a lot of games, and with management trading for Jeff Carter in an effort to try to win now, get to the playoffs, and try to show some good faith to season ticket holders and the ticket buying fans in general, do you think it's a good idea to " Fail For Nail " ?
Nobody started out thinking failure was a good idea, but with the team winless in 8 games, many of us are getting a familiar feeling, which is that the team is going to end up missing the playoffs again, yet not being bad enough to get a sure-fire player in the draft. Hence the thinking that stinking as much as possible this year could return the best possible player in the draft -- the big one that will be the linchpin needed to turn this losing franchise around.

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10-25-2011, 04:28 PM
  #45
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can an outsider ask you a question? with your arena less than full during a lot of games, and with management trading for Jeff Carter in an effort to try to win now, get to the playoffs, and try to show some good faith to season ticket holders and the ticket buying fans in general, do you think it's a good idea to " Fail For Nail " ?
No, I don't.

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10-25-2011, 05:19 PM
  #46
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The problem is if you look at this fanbase which wants the entire staff fired, and every player traded, they'll never let it get to that point. We'll sacrifice this team's future, and trade our 1st rounder here in the next few weeks in order to get the last year on some vet that'll play out the rest of the season, and become a free agent.

But it'll appease the fans.

It's just a shame that the fans never want what's best for this team.
This organization never appeases the fans until it absolutely has to. Witness how long it took to fire Hitchcock, how long it took to finally get a decent center, how long it took to fire Doug, etc., etc. And I don't know what fans will be appeased by some veteran at this point. I don't see a lot of people, even the one's saying we shouldn't tank, that are honestly saying this team has a realistic chance of making the playoffs. Because they know they'd lose all credibility to make that statement at this juncture.

From what I've seen, most fans have a better sense of what this team needs than our GM.

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What's changed is that a large-scale rebuild would theoretically be possible. There are plenty of components of the current team that have good value around the league, even if they're grossly unproductive right now.
You are kidding yourself. With the overpriced contracts most of these guys have, you'd have to beg someone to take them off your hands.

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Total collapse helped the Pens and Hawks build, but how did the Bruins and Wings win Cups? There must be more ways than one to build a winner. I go into each game hoping for a win and disappointed when they lose. If you can feel better about losing because you see an ultimate benefit down the road, good for you. I'd rather draft late, every year.
You picked two teams with incredibly competent GM's who wheeled and dealed their way to championships and weren't afraid to spend big bucks on free agents when it was called for. Based on what I've seen, I don't think anyone can compare our current management to them.

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As for our draft blunders/bad luck in other years, we certainly dropped the ball through the Doug McLean years. I still have belief in Scott Howson's drafting/development, personally.
Nikita Filatov and John Moore don't give me warm fuzzies about Howson's drafting skills. People like Palinka are left to pick nits with regards to Cam Fowler...while ignoring entirely that Howson was desperately trying to trade back into the first round so that he could draft him. But hey, Howson's done a swell job of finding bottom pairing defensive prospects and bottom 6 forwards to overpay for years to come.

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10-25-2011, 05:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
You picked two teams with incredibly competent GM's who wheeled and dealed their way to championships and weren't afraid to spend big bucks on free agents when it was called for. Based on what I've seen, I don't think anyone can compare our current management to them.
I didn't cook the data to support any particular argument, those are the last four Cup winners.

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10-25-2011, 10:18 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Nikita Filatov and John Moore don't give me warm fuzzies about Howson's drafting skills. People like Palinka are left to pick nits with regards to Cam Fowler...while ignoring entirely that Howson was desperately trying to trade back into the first round so that he could draft him. But hey, Howson's done a swell job of finding bottom pairing defensive prospects and bottom 6 forwards to overpay for years to come.
They can't all be gems - even Chicago drafted Kyle Beach and Cam Barker. In drafting guys like Ryan Johansen when everyone in the world was screaming "Cam Fowler" at him, it's obvious that Scott's team has a flair for scouting. Johansen quickly became one of the top prospects in hockey, and has been on an upswing since. Sure, Cam Fowler had a good rookie year ... but we weren't the only team that passed him up for prospects "rated lower" than he was. I also loved the pick of Boone Jenner this year.

That being said, there are some question mark picks also. Not as bad as the McLean era, for sure ... but I will always question picking Dalton Smith when Alex Petrovic was still on the board. Perhaps it will work out - but Petrovic could be a top-4 defenseman in the NHL...something this franchise has always struggled with having.

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10-26-2011, 11:03 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
This organization never appeases the fans until it absolutely has to. Witness how long it took to fire Hitchcock, how long it took to finally get a decent center, how long it took to fire Doug, etc., etc. And I don't know what fans will be appeased by some veteran at this point. I don't see a lot of people, even the one's saying we shouldn't tank, that are honestly saying this team has a realistic chance of making the playoffs. Because they know they'd lose all credibility to make that statement at this juncture.

From what I've seen, most fans have a better sense of what this team needs than our GM.
Yes. The most ridiculous excuse I've heard for the defense of Howson in this respect is that he "Doesn't want to break his poker face" or "He doesn't want to show his hand."

What Hand? Every other GM knows the situation in Columbus.... Its no secret.

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10-27-2011, 02:01 AM
  #50
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You are kidding yourself. With the overpriced contracts most of these guys have, you'd have to beg someone to take them off your hands.
The most comparable player to someone like Antoine Vermette would be someone like Mike Fisher, who returned a first-rounder and a conditional pick. We're not talking about guys who are past their primes or never had a prime. To use Vermette as the example, the perception of him is of a 55-65 point player who can play both the PP and the PK, and will at least be doing something if he's not producing on the scoresheet. He's actually managed to do that before, so it's not a pipe dream to think that he can do it again.

You're making it sound like Todd Marchant is filling several spots in the top 12.

Quote:
Nikita Filatov and John Moore don't give me warm fuzzies about Howson's drafting skills. People like Palinka are left to pick nits with regards to Cam Fowler...while ignoring entirely that Howson was desperately trying to trade back into the first round so that he could draft him. But hey, Howson's done a swell job of finding bottom pairing defensive prospects and bottom 6 forwards to overpay for years to come.
How on earth can you refer to my assessment of Fowler as "nit-picking"? We can all agree that he's got serious offensive skill, but that's about where it ends. Would the reference to Andy Delmore as Any Elmore (no D) also be nit-picking, or is it providing an honest assessment of the limitations that will prevent him from being an NHL star? How about Phil Housley, who'd trip over his own blueline because he didn't know where it was?

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That being said, there are some question mark picks also. Not as bad as the McLean era, for sure ... but I will always question picking Dalton Smith when Alex Petrovic was still on the board. Perhaps it will work out - but Petrovic could be a top-4 defenseman in the NHL...something this franchise has always struggled with having.
I think I'll be long dead and buried before you leave the Alex Petrovic non-pick alone.

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