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2011-2012 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, College, International, Other) *Part 2*

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Old
10-24-2011, 01:45 PM
  #951
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I can understand what ODC is saying a little bit though. I mean as a #10 overall pick, "currently", his game is lacking what we would/should hope to get from such a pick. Im not saying I dont like what Mci brings to our team, just that there were definitely much more prolific picks available there. But hey hindsight is always 20/20.........

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10-24-2011, 02:00 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Mutus Liber View Post
I can understand what ODC is saying a little bit though. I mean as a #10 overall pick, "currently", his game is lacking what we would/should hope to get from such a pick. Im not saying I dont like what Mci brings to our team, just that there were definitely much more prolific picks available there. But hey hindsight is always 20/20.........
It was a very controversial pick, I think most people were/are still uneasy about what was passed up. But he brings it up nonstop. Any bit of success or improvement McIllrath shows, he attacks and attacks, and whines about how terrible a pick it was.

Most of us who didn't like the pick have gotten over it, and are rooting for him, knowing it will be a long-term project. He, not Tarasanko or Fowler, is a Ranger now. No point in continually getting upset over it.

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10-24-2011, 02:01 PM
  #953
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McIlrath is still a very raw prospect. He's obviously already an elite fighter and he has excellent strength. I came away very impressed with his ability to get the puck on net during the Traverse City games and the preseason. Those of you looking for him to become a puck wizard like Cam Fowler or Ryan Murphy couldn't be further out of touch with their expectations. He was drafted as a stay at home defensive type with potential for offensive contribution. For the record, I'm in the camp that you pick BPA regardless of team needs in the first round. I was in the Tarasenko camp that year, and nearly crapped myself when I saw that Fowler was still on the board at our pick. That year, however, Gordie and co. went with drafting for need, even though I staunchly disagree with that philosophy. For better or worse though, McIlrath was the guy, and I'm going to root like hell for him to succeed and reach his potential, which I think he can, but it may take a long time to do so.

The kid didn't start playing hockey full time until he was 15 for crying out loud. His decision making with the puck needs work, but that will come with time and game experience. Down the road, he will look very good paired with someone like Erixon or Del Zotto that can move the puck up ice quickly.

I stand by my projection that we will see him in Ranger blue full time starting in the 2013-2014 season. He may get his 9 game cup of coffee as soon as next season, but the best way for him to develop at this point is to have him play at least 20 minutes a night in Moose Jaw or with the Whale after this season. Playing him on the 3rd pair with Erixon or Del Zotto right off the bat isn't going to do him much good. He needs to play and gain experience so he can work on other facets of the game.

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10-24-2011, 02:04 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Mutus Liber View Post
I can understand what ODC is saying a little bit though. I mean as a #10 overall pick, "currently", his game is lacking what we would/should hope to get from such a pick. Im not saying I dont like what Mci brings to our team, just that there were definitely much more prolific picks available there. But hey hindsight is always 20/20.........
Well in this case foresight was also 20/20.

I kid, I kid. Kind of. I am just rooting for Dylan to fine-tune his play in his own in end. There have been quite a few nights over the years when watching this team that a good ol fashioned piss-pounding is just what the doctor ordered to subdue my rage from watching a poor team effort. If he can be sound in his own end while delivering that I will be on board with him.

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10-24-2011, 02:12 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Mutus Liber View Post
I can understand what ODC is saying a little bit though. I mean as a #10 overall pick, "currently", his game is lacking what we would/should hope to get from such a pick. Im not saying I dont like what Mci brings to our team, just that there were definitely much more prolific picks available there. But hey hindsight is always 20/20.........
The issue is with his lack of objective analysis. He has already arrived at the conclusion that McIlrath will be a disappointing 1st round bust and is grasping at straws to try to justify having already done so, like complaining about him dropping the gloves to defend a teammate who was obliterated with a hit....

There is another similar poster on here who does the same thing...

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10-24-2011, 02:30 PM
  #956
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point taken guys.

i will make every effort to refrain from further mcilrath bashing.

while not a fan of the pick at all. i am a true blue nyr fan and thus, i will reduce my anti-mcilrath posts going forward. and for the record, i do not want him to fail.

enough.

i reserve the right to ***** and moan about coach clown however....

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10-24-2011, 02:48 PM
  #957
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Now that that's over with, how about this Miller guy?

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10-24-2011, 02:49 PM
  #958
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This is tweet regarding McDonagh and Gardiner. Their advisor and now agent Ben Hankinson tweeted it during the 2009-10 season. March 6,2010 to be exact. Hankinson represents both players. He also represents Michael Sauer.

Quote:
NHL scout told me at Wisc vs Goph game last night that the 2 MN D on Wisc Ryan McDonagh/Jake Gardiner are the best D pair in country.
https://twitter.com/#!/benhankinson/status/10103061198

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10-24-2011, 03:03 PM
  #959
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Now that that's over with, how about this Miller guy?
Can't say I'm surprised with his good start. He looked good at Traverse and didn't look out of place at all against almost a full NJ Devils squad. He's very good at most aspects of the game. If he works on his skating a little and becomes faster, he can be a very scary player.

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10-24-2011, 03:05 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Mutus Liber View Post
I can understand what ODC is saying a little bit though. I mean as a #10 overall pick, "currently", his game is lacking what we would/should hope to get from such a pick. Im not saying I dont like what Mci brings to our team, just that there were definitely much more prolific picks available there. But hey hindsight is always 20/20.........
The issue is that people are too focused on who we passed over to select him. I remember there were people who were outraged in 2009 because we passed over Schroeder in favor of Kreider. Same can be said when we picked Stepan over Petrov. Once a player is selected, you can't analyze their progress on day-to-day basis -- let alone compare it to the players that were selected before or after him -- until you can level the playing field.

Plus, people forget what our prospect pool looked like at the time. Del Zotto was coming off a tremendous rookie year, while some of our "defensive" d-man prospects were still unproven (McDonagh), or were battling injuries (Sauer). Not to mention the team spent a lot of time that season getting pushed around by more physical teams, and the fan base was not happy about it.

You need guys like McIlrath to win extended playoff series. You need a guy who can wear down the opposing forwards over a 7 game series. Boston had Chara, Chicago had Seabrook and Hjalmarsson, Pittsburgh had Orpik, Detroit had Stuart and Kronwall, etc, etc.

If McIlrath and Fowler both reach their potential, I think you'd find more people who want McIlrath on their roster than Fowler.

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10-24-2011, 03:11 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
point taken guys.

i will make every effort to refrain from further mcilrath bashing.

while not a fan of the pick at all. i am a true blue nyr fan and thus, i will reduce my anti-mcilrath posts going forward. and for the record, i do not want him to fail.

enough.

i reserve the right to ***** and moan about coach clown however....
Good for you.

....I just noticed your avatar, LOL. Your obsessed. Can't believe I did not see that till now....

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10-24-2011, 03:22 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
McIlrath is still a very raw prospect. He's obviously already an elite fighter and he has excellent strength. I came away very impressed with his ability to get the puck on net during the Traverse City games and the preseason. Those of you looking for him to become a puck wizard like Cam Fowler or Ryan Murphy couldn't be further out of touch with their expectations. He was drafted as a stay at home defensive type with potential for offensive contribution. For the record, I'm in the camp that you pick BPA regardless of team needs in the first round. I was in the Tarasenko camp that year, and nearly crapped myself when I saw that Fowler was still on the board at our pick. That year, however, Gordie and co. went with drafting for need, even though I staunchly disagree with that philosophy. For better or worse though, McIlrath was the guy, and I'm going to root like hell for him to succeed and reach his potential, which I think he can, but it may take a long time to do so.

The kid didn't start playing hockey full time until he was 15 for crying out loud. His decision making with the puck needs work, but that will come with time and game experience. Down the road, he will look very good paired with someone like Erixon or Del Zotto that can move the puck up ice quickly.

I stand by my projection that we will see him in Ranger blue full time starting in the 2013-2014 season. He may get his 9 game cup of coffee as soon as next season, but the best way for him to develop at this point is to have him play at least 20 minutes a night in Moose Jaw or with the Whale after this season. Playing him on the 3rd pair with Erixon or Del Zotto right off the bat isn't going to do him much good. He needs to play and gain experience so he can work on other facets of the game.
Agreed 100%.

May we both "eat crow".

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Old
10-24-2011, 03:41 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The issue is that people are too focused on who we passed over to select him. I remember there were people who were outraged in 2009 because we passed over Schroeder in favor of Kreider. Same can be said when we picked Stepan over Petrov. Once a player is selected, you can't analyze their progress on day-to-day basis -- let alone compare it to the players that were selected before or after him -- until you can level the playing field.

Plus, people forget what our prospect pool looked like at the time. Del Zotto was coming off a tremendous rookie year, while some of our "defensive" d-man prospects were still unproven (McDonagh), or were battling injuries (Sauer). Not to mention the team spent a lot of time that season getting pushed around by more physical teams, and the fan base was not happy about it.

You need guys like McIlrath to win extended playoff series. You need a guy who can wear down the opposing forwards over a 7 game series. Boston had Chara, Chicago had Seabrook and Hjalmarsson, Pittsburgh had Orpik, Detroit had Stuart and Kronwall, etc, etc.

If McIlrath and Fowler both reach their potential, I think you'd find more people who want McIlrath on their roster than Fowler.
I can get on board with that for sure. It's too easy to compare him to players that we passed over, such as a Fowler. It's human nature to make the comparisons that readily present themselves. Im by no means saying that Im one of those, who is like NOWAIWHYDWEPICKTHISGUY!!! But I can certainly understand the folks who make the comparisons to others in his draft class.

Ive played/coached hockey for a very long time, and the old words ring true regarding the length of time it can take a D-man to develop. Hell even Staal is learning every year, and he was an All-Star last year. Me personally, Im going to take the patient route and see what the kid can develop into. Bottom line is we took him on the projection that he was a major piece we needed moving forward, and I'm ok with that. Do I somewhat envy the Fowler pick, or the Tarasenko pick, absolutely. But no more so than my envy of all 29 other teams that drafted in the 2003 draft....

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10-24-2011, 06:17 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
point taken guys.

i will make every effort to refrain from further mcilrath bashing.

while not a fan of the pick at all. i am a true blue nyr fan and thus, i will reduce my anti-mcilrath posts going forward. and for the record, i do not want him to fail.

enough.

i reserve the right to ***** and moan about coach clown however....
Can't question your loyalty, ODC. We butt heads all the time but I know you're a true fan.

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10-24-2011, 09:13 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
2011-12 Regular Season Moose Jaw Warriors 8 1 2 3 -1 18

thats his line so far this year.

i am expecting more outa our #10 choice. less fighting, more playing.

rather than mention lisin, you would be better serrved trying to understand my point about dylans overall game development curve relative to his fighting prowess.

lets leave it at that.

Man, you must've hated Beukeboom when he was here. What a terrible #19 pick he was, right?

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10-24-2011, 09:15 PM
  #966
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He has TWO fights this year. Meaning he's missed a whopping 10 minutes of "development time" because he was in the box. Last year, he missed 4% of possible ice time due to penalties. That's including all minor penalties as well. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Stop watching the stat line and start watching some games.

Don't you know that those 10 minutes will really hinder him.


(It's not as if he made up for this ice time with other shifts either.)

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10-24-2011, 09:46 PM
  #967
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Man, you must've hated Beukeboom when he was here. What a terrible #19 pick he was, right?
Can't compare these players because of the vast differences in the leagues they played in, and the #19 pick in a 21 team league isn't quite as valuable as the #10 in a 30 team league, but Beuke is without a doubt the McIlrath defender's best peg to hang their hat on.

I personally thought he, and his huge hits that constantly took him out of position and led to scoring chances against, was overrated, but I'm likely in a big time minority regarding that around here.

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10-24-2011, 10:37 PM
  #968
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Quote:
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Can't compare these players because of the vast differences in the leagues they played in, and the #19 pick in a 21 team league isn't quite as valuable as the #10 in a 30 team league, but Beuke is without a doubt the McIlrath defender's best peg to hang their hat on.

I personally thought he, and his huge hits that constantly took him out of position and led to scoring chances against, was overrated, but I'm likely in a big time minority regarding that around here.
For a more current player, reference Orpik.

No one thought he'd be what he is now. I don't think anyone would have thought that after the year he came out of BC.

Give Mac time. If he could become an Orpik, we'd be thanking the Lord. We have what we have. I see no reason for anyone to continue to bash him or the pick. It's not like it can be undone or anything. All this board does is circles with this. Just let it be. Let the kid develop. If he busts in a few years, then we might as well revisit it. But constantly talking about him as some failed pick already is ********.

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10-25-2011, 11:42 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The issue is that people are too focused on who we passed over to select him. I remember there were people who were outraged in 2009 because we passed over Schroeder in favor of Kreider. Same can be said when we picked Stepan over Petrov. Once a player is selected, you can't analyze their progress on day-to-day basis -- let alone compare it to the players that were selected before or after him -- until you can level the playing field.

Plus, people forget what our prospect pool looked like at the time. Del Zotto was coming off a tremendous rookie year, while some of our "defensive" d-man prospects were still unproven (McDonagh), or were battling injuries (Sauer). Not to mention the team spent a lot of time that season getting pushed around by more physical teams, and the fan base was not happy about it.

You need guys like McIlrath to win extended playoff series. You need a guy who can wear down the opposing forwards over a 7 game series. Boston had Chara, Chicago had Seabrook and Hjalmarsson, Pittsburgh had Orpik, Detroit had Stuart and Kronwall, etc, etc.

If McIlrath and Fowler both reach their potential, I think you'd find more people who want McIlrath on their roster than Fowler.
Good points all.

But your last points are the bottom line that I keep coming back to.

So, allow me to supplement what you stated: Our D corps has the ability to perform brilliantly, BUT it intimidates no one. Any team that seriously competes for a Cup HAS to have that intimidation factor. People want to ignore this is as if it has no significance what so ever. Well, that's having you head up your a$$.

This is STILL hockey. Physical intimidation will continue to be about a lot more than being able to pummel someone with fists. We need that intimidation factor as soon and as much as we can get it.

If, and I realize this is a HUGE if, IF we could some how shed cap space and some how sign Shea Weber, we would be a truly dangerous team in the years ahead.

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10-25-2011, 11:44 AM
  #970
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Jesper Fasth & HV71 play today... Any Swedes or Europeans on here that can tell me when the game starts? Not sure about the time difference....

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10-25-2011, 11:48 AM
  #971
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Good points all.

But your last points are the bottom line that I keep coming back to.

So, allow me to supplement what you stated: Our D corps has the ability to perform brilliantly, BUT it intimidates no one. Any team that seriously competes for a Cup HAS to have that intimidation factor. People want to ignore this is as if it has no significance what so ever. Well, that's having you head up your a$$.

This is STILL hockey. Physical intimidation will continue to be about a lot more than being able to pummel someone with fists. We need that intimidation factor as soon and as much as we can get it.

If, and I realize this is a HUGE if, IF we could some how shed cap space and some how sign Shea Weber, we would be a truly dangerous team in the years ahead.

100% agree.

Some people seemed to suggest that McIlrath shouldn't have fought that guy because the hit on his player was clean. The thing is, by beating the snot out of the guy, maybe that guy doesn't throw that big hit next time. Maybe someone else on his team hesitates to get physical with the goalie because he doesn't want to face a beatdown from The Undertaker. It's about more than whether the hit was dirty. If a hit is dirty, I'd be mad if no one stepped up and tried to fight the guy. A huge, clean hit is a toss up, but I love having a guy who's willing to drop 'em over a clean hit so as to scare the bejeesus out of the opposition.

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10-25-2011, 01:40 PM
  #972
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Jesper Fasth & HV71 play today... Any Swedes or Europeans on here that can tell me when the game starts? Not sure about the time difference....
http://www.hockeyligan.se/index.php/...n-arena/37787/

Neither Fasth nor Lindberg on score sheet yet (1-1) 3rd period just started.

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10-25-2011, 01:54 PM
  #973
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Thanks

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10-25-2011, 05:07 PM
  #974
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No points for Fasth or Lindberg today.

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10-25-2011, 05:59 PM
  #975
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No points for Fasth or Lindberg today.
We should've taken some other prospect over Fasth. No upside in that late round pick. God.

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