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Fighting in Beer Leagues

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Old
10-25-2011, 10:54 AM
  #76
hockeyisforeveryone
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Originally Posted by BluelineHammer View Post
BUT I will say this: fights rarely just happen out of the blue, they happen for a reason. Guys get chippy and rough before they get to dropping gloves. Sometimes there is history between players or team that might lead them to a fight. It IS the refs job to control the two of them before it gets to a fight. If guys are getting very physical and chippy and you see things possibly escalating then as a ref you need to blow the whistle and step in there and send both of them off to cool down, as well as remind them to back off of each other and tell them that you will not tollerate what they are doing. It is a refs job to have control of the game, and if you notice that things are getting ab bit out of hand, then it is your job to step in before a fight breaks out.
Good points here. I am thinking about becoming a ref now because of my love for the game and the attention/awareness I would like to bring at every level. In the OP I was hinting at the idea the refs didn't seem present. Hockey players compete hard no matter what and deserve conscious officiating to help keep things under control.

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10-25-2011, 03:34 PM
  #77
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It's pretty funny how the blame is shifted back to the refs for allowing things to escalate to the point where a fight starts. I guess it's always easier for the little people in the world to shift blame rather than putting it on the players that cause the issues.

Newsflash, the refs don't score goals, they don't take stupid penalties, and they aren't the reason that fights happen. Look beside you on our bench and you'll see where it comes from.

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10-25-2011, 07:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ChiTownHawks View Post
Yeah the prices are pretty steep, but unfortunately the demand is very high. The rink I play at is one of two in Chicago proper that has leagues. Both are run by the same guy. You can better prices in the burbs, but most people want to play in the city. We have 15 games with 3 15 min periods. It is $350 per guy for the season.
Johnny's is ridiculously overpriced. Most leagues in the city and up north are, actually. $2100 for 12 game season + playoffs this summer. Orland is around the same for 10 games.

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10-25-2011, 07:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
It's pretty funny how the blame is shifted back to the refs for allowing things to escalate to the point where a fight starts. I guess it's always easier for the little people in the world to shift blame rather than putting it on the players that cause the issues.

Newsflash, the refs don't score goals, they don't take stupid penalties, and they aren't the reason that fights happen. Look beside you on our bench and you'll see where it comes from.
It is a refs job to maintain control of the game. If they are letting those stupid penalties go in beer leagues, it usually gets out of control. Especially when you have a talented team playing a not-so-talented team. There's only so many cross checks, slashes, hooks, and holds you can take before you lose your temper. I'm guilty of doing it myself when the guy that can hardly skate is hooking the **** out of me every time I touch the puck. Pretty much every game I've ever skated in, where the game got out of control, could be blamed on the refs. There are always dirty players in beer leagues. If the refs don't reign them in during the game, they are directly to blame when things escalate, and they usually do.

The biggest hacks are usually the worst hockey players. They start losing, and they think it's message sending time. Let those guys get away with their crap, and those that actually played serious hockey are going to put them in their place eventually.

You cross check me in the kidneys, you bump me into the boards from behind, you slash the back of my legs and my hands, you hook me under the armpits and between my legs, and you get away with it, and eventually I'm going to put you through the glass. Beer league or not.

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10-25-2011, 08:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
Johnny's is ridiculously overpriced. Most leagues in the city and up north are, actually. $2100 for 12 game season + playoffs this summer. Orland is around the same for 10 games.
Totally agree. I play in and around Joliet and Romeoville, its $150 a guy per session for 12 games.

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It is a refs job to maintain control of the game. If they are letting those stupid penalties go in beer leagues, it usually gets out of control. Especially when you have a talented team playing a not-so-talented team. There's only so many cross checks, slashes, hooks, and holds you can take before you lose your temper. I'm guilty of doing it myself when the guy that can hardly skate is hooking the **** out of me every time I touch the puck. Pretty much every game I've ever skated in, where the game got out of control, could be blamed on the refs. There are always dirty players in beer leagues. If the refs don't reign them in during the game, they are directly to blame when things escalate, and they usually do.

The biggest hacks are usually the worst hockey players. They start losing, and they think it's message sending time. Let those guys get away with their crap, and those that actually played serious hockey are going to put them in their place eventually.

You cross check me in the kidneys, you bump me into the boards from behind, you slash the back of my legs and my hands, you hook me under the armpits and between my legs, and you get away with it, and eventually I'm going to put you through the glass. Beer league or not.

This is how I usually handle these Dbags with a nicely timed check, I'll take the 2 minutes.

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10-25-2011, 08:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
Wow, so you pay between $200 to $250 to play in a league? That must be terrible, pretty sure no one else here pays that kind of money...... Also, big difference between playing hard and playing stupid. Breathe easy.
wow 6500 a team here in the mecca

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10-25-2011, 09:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
It is a refs job to maintain control of the game. If they are letting those stupid penalties go in beer leagues, it usually gets out of control. Especially when you have a talented team playing a not-so-talented team. There's only so many cross checks, slashes, hooks, and holds you can take before you lose your temper. I'm guilty of doing it myself when the guy that can hardly skate is hooking the **** out of me every time I touch the puck. Pretty much every game I've ever skated in, where the game got out of control, could be blamed on the refs. There are always dirty players in beer leagues. If the refs don't reign them in during the game, they are directly to blame when things escalate, and they usually do.

The biggest hacks are usually the worst hockey players. They start losing, and they think it's message sending time. Let those guys get away with their crap, and those that actually played serious hockey are going to put them in their place eventually.

You cross check me in the kidneys, you bump me into the boards from behind, you slash the back of my legs and my hands, you hook me under the armpits and between my legs, and you get away with it, and eventually I'm going to put you through the glass. Beer league or not.
On the flip side, there is only so many of the ticky tack penalties you can call, you say a bump into the boards is worth a 2 minute penalty? Teams don't ice enough players to be calling most of those,

You think a hook on the hands is worth a 2 minute penalty? Again, teams don't ice enough players to be calling most of those,

Fight through the damn things, play the game, and if it's an actual hook, it will get called, but feeling a stick on your elbow, or pants and looking for an automatic call is the easiest way to get ignored the rest of the game.

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10-25-2011, 09:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
On the flip side, there is only so many of the ticky tack penalties you can call, you say a bump into the boards is worth a 2 minute penalty? Teams don't ice enough players to be calling most of those,

You think a hook on the hands is worth a 2 minute penalty? Again, teams don't ice enough players to be calling most of those,

Fight through the damn things, play the game, and if it's an actual hook, it will get called, but feeling a stick on your elbow, or pants and looking for an automatic call is the easiest way to get ignored the rest of the game.
And where did you get that impression from? Bumping somebody FROM BEHIND into the boards is absolutely worth a 2 minute penalty. It doesn't take much to really hurt somebody from behind. SLASHES on the hands and wrists are also absolutely worth a 2 minute penalty. Doesn't take much to break a wrist with a slash. As is hooking people in the nuts, or under their armpits, and going for a ride. How do you fight through guys that have their stick wrapped around you the entire time you're carrying the puck? Or put their free hand around you and wrap you up when you go into the corner with the puck? Or hook your top hand right off your stick every time you try and carry the puck? Call the game the way it should be called. How many guys they have on the bench shouldn't matter in the LEAST. Nor should how crappy the other team is. You call the penalties that are committed that you see. Period.

"Teams don't ice enough players" is probably the lamest excuse I've ever heard for not calling penalties. THAT'S NOT THE REF'S PROBLEM. I'm not talking about rec. leagues here. I'm talking A and B level hockey. If you don't have enough guys on the bench, then don't commit penalties. It's pretty easy. If you're a ****** hockey player, then don't play in the higher levels. Stick to C and rec. league.

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10-25-2011, 10:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
And where did you get that impression from? Bumping somebody FROM BEHIND into the boards is absolutely worth a 2 minute penalty. It doesn't take much to really hurt somebody from behind. SLASHES on the hands and wrists are also absolutely worth a 2 minute penalty. Doesn't take much to break a wrist with a slash. As is hooking people in the nuts, or under their armpits, and going for a ride. How do you fight through guys that have their stick wrapped around you the entire time you're carrying the puck? Or put their free hand around you and wrap you up when you go into the corner with the puck? Or hook your top hand right off your stick every time you try and carry the puck? Call the game the way it should be called. How many guys they have on the bench shouldn't matter in the LEAST. Nor should how crappy the other team is. You call the penalties that are committed that you see. Period.

"Teams don't ice enough players" is probably the lamest excuse I've ever heard for not calling penalties. THAT'S NOT THE REF'S PROBLEM. I'm not talking about rec. leagues here. I'm talking A and B level hockey. If you don't have enough guys on the bench, then don't commit penalties. It's pretty easy. If you're a ****** hockey player, then don't play in the higher levels. Stick to C and rec. league.
I don't think you understand the problem here,

All the ticky tack BS that players want called, officials can easily call them, for every one penalty called in Beer league, there are EASILY 4-5 let go.

Most leagues have a penalty limit rule, ie, 3 penalties and you are out of the game etc, most players can exceed that in the first period, let alone the entire game.

So yes, you can have all that called, if you are willing to play a period a week for the next 2 years until players get it, which, at that level, they never will.

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Old
10-26-2011, 09:55 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
Johnny's is ridiculously overpriced. Most leagues in the city and up north are, actually. $2100 for 12 game season + playoffs this summer. Orland is around the same for 10 games.
Yeah I would agree it is overpriced. We do pay a little more to play on a set night every week though. So that is a little added bonus.

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10-26-2011, 02:44 PM
  #86
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I run the adult hockey league in my town; $470 for a 40-game season, that includes the playoffs.

I also punish people who decide to fight pretty harshly. We have an automatic 3-game suspenion for fighting, with an option to extend the ban for whoever instigated, etc...

3 instances of fighting and the player is banned from the league.

I have a day job and a wife and son to go home to. I don't feel like explaining to anyone that I've got a black eye because some stupid loser takes the game way too seriously.

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10-26-2011, 04:06 PM
  #87
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Wow, some of you guys pay a lot. My town charges $195 for fall and spring and $150 per summer (with once-per-year $35 for insurance) for 14-14-14 stop-time games with 10-14 per team depending on the season. Fall and Spring are about 17 games in each of fall/spring and 13 over the summer.

As for fights, I've only heard of one happening at my rink since I joined the league a few years ago. It was between a guy defenseman and a girl forward and involved the guy using a few of the uber-offensive swear words at her because they were shoving for position in the crease and he didn't like that she was hard to move. IIRC, she cross checked him in the shoulders after he used the second of two swear words (think "c") and then he dropped the gloves. Both got suspended for a game.

There's some shoving from the usual meatheads a couple times a season, but no fights. It's really not worth it. We're in a really low-level league, and most of the things people take offense at are just a difference in skill level more than something malicious.

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10-26-2011, 05:05 PM
  #88
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SHOW ME RIGHT ******* NOW ON USA HOCKEY.COM WHERE IT SAYS ANY REF IN ANY LEAGUE SHOULD NOT BREAK UP A FIGHT!!!! THEN TURN YOUR ATTENTION TO MY PREVIOUS COMMENT ON HOW THEY GET PAID TO BE THERE.
How about if you show me right "****ing" now on USA Hockey.com where it says that refs *should* break up a fight?

As for league costs, it's about $25-30 per game for skaters here in the Denver area (playoffs are free). Goalies usually don't pay.

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10-26-2011, 05:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I run the adult hockey league in my town; $470 for a 40-game season, that includes the playoffs.

I also punish people who decide to fight pretty harshly. We have an automatic 3-game suspenion for fighting, with an option to extend the ban for whoever instigated, etc...

3 instances of fighting and the player is banned from the league.

I have a day job and a wife and son to go home to. I don't feel like explaining to anyone that I've got a black eye because some stupid loser takes the game way too seriously.
Wow. It's about $360/game/team here. Your league is about half the price

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10-26-2011, 05:53 PM
  #90
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Since we're talking about league prices here, my league is $11,480 per team (including tax) for 28 regular season games + playoffs (8 teams per division, so a max of 3 rounds of playoffs if you go to the finals, best 2 out of 3 each round, so 2-9 playoff games). We play with 14 players (3 forward lines, 2 d pairs, 1 goalie), so it works out to $29.28/person/game (if you consider playoff games to be "free"), almost triple what some of you guys are paying! That's what I get for living in a city where property is so crazy expensive, though.


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10-26-2011, 07:42 PM
  #91
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I don't think you understand the problem here,

All the ticky tack BS that players want called, officials can easily call them, for every one penalty called in Beer league, there are EASILY 4-5 let go.

Most leagues have a penalty limit rule, ie, 3 penalties and you are out of the game etc, most players can exceed that in the first period, let alone the entire game.

So yes, you can have all that called, if you are willing to play a period a week for the next 2 years until players get it, which, at that level, they never will.
I don't think you understand the league, here.

I'm not sure how the beer leagues are where you are from, but on my team, all of us have played at a pretty high level. We have all played travel hockey, and quite a few have played juniors, college, and beyond. We are all well aware of what is a penalty, and what is not. We don't commit a penalty every period, let alone every shift, as you seem to assume. I'm not talking about beer leagues where guys have never played anything but beer league... I'm talking about pretty high level hockey here. There are people that have played junior A, NCAA, college club hockey, and even some guys that have played pro hockey playing in these leagues... In the games between the better teams, there are very few penalties even committed during most games, as almost everybody knows how to play without hooking, clutching, and grabbing... Your assumption about the players is WAY off. What exactly does "at that level" even mean?

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10-26-2011, 07:59 PM
  #92
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I played 3 years in Oakville Ontario Mens League.

I loved their policy: You get in a fight, you may get banned, and your entire TEAM may be banned. This league was expensive as hell too. But I never saw one fight.

That being said, I had a guy break my ankle with a slash after I scored and I lost my job because of that.

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10-26-2011, 08:00 PM
  #93
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Since we're talking about league prices here, my league is $11,480 per team (including tax) for 28 regular season games + playoffs (8 teams per division, so a max of 3 rounds of playoffs if you go to the finals, best 2 out of 3 each round, so 2-9 playoff games). We play with 14 players (3 forward lines, 2 d pairs, 1 goalie), so it works out to $29.28/person/game (if you consider playoff games to be "free"), almost triple what some of you guys are paying! That's what I get for living in a city where property is so crazy expensive, though.
Yeah I was gonna say these guys are lucky! I assume you're talking about ASHL. Out in Delta we get 32 games + playoffs for $12k. With 14 skaters that works out to about $860 each for the season. Yikes.

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10-26-2011, 08:06 PM
  #94
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I don't think you understand the league, here.

I'm not sure how the beer leagues are where you are from, but on my team, all of us have played at a pretty high level. We have all played travel hockey, and quite a few have played juniors, college, and beyond. We are all well aware of what is a penalty, and what is not. We don't commit a penalty every period, let alone every shift, as you seem to assume. I'm not talking about beer leagues where guys have never played anything but beer league... I'm talking about pretty high level hockey here. There are people that have played junior A, NCAA, college club hockey, and even some guys that have played pro hockey playing in these leagues... In the games between the better teams, there are very few penalties even committed during most games, as almost everybody knows how to play without hooking, clutching, and grabbing... Your assumption about the players is WAY off. What exactly does "at that level" even mean?
Is there an actual point to all this?

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10-26-2011, 08:19 PM
  #95
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Yeah I was gonna say these guys are lucky! I assume you're talking about ASHL. Out in Delta we get 32 games + playoffs for $12k. With 14 skaters that works out to about $860 each for the season. Yikes.
I think he's talking about Coast. Delta is the planetice league? Even though it's more expensive, I believe it's slightly cheaper per skater per game than Coast, last time I checked. I've played both and find planetice to give you waaay more ice time. That's my main complaint with Coast. Some games being 10-12-10 is just unacceptable.

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10-26-2011, 08:42 PM
  #96
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Every once in a while in my league you get a fight. In 3 years, I've seen, maybe 3 - 4. It's always an interesting event to say the least.

One of the more interesting ones I saw happened in our final game in the summer league. Last 10 seconds of overtime, our smallest player chips the puck off the boards and tries to go around the opposing player who's a good 6 inches taller. The bigger guy tried to stand him up (no hitting league), and our guy ended up plowing him. The bigger guy got up grabbed him trying to fight him.

He had one arm behind his neck and his other forearm pushing into the front. The refs stood there as my teammate went purple and they fell to the ice. My buddy had to jump the bench to grab him and start pulling him off. So in the end, two of our best players got kicked for the shootout because of it.

I find as well, the ones who usually act "tough" in beer leagues are the 19 year olds behind cages. They usually offer to fight and as soon as you stand up to them and say fine, they skate away. It can be annoying dealing with it.

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10-26-2011, 08:44 PM
  #97
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I don't think you understand the league, here.

I'm not sure how the beer leagues are where you are from, but on my team, all of us have played at a pretty high level. We have all played travel hockey, and quite a few have played juniors, college, and beyond. We are all well aware of what is a penalty, and what is not. We don't commit a penalty every period, let alone every shift, as you seem to assume. I'm not talking about beer leagues where guys have never played anything but beer league... I'm talking about pretty high level hockey here. There are people that have played junior A, NCAA, college club hockey, and even some guys that have played pro hockey playing in these leagues... In the games between the better teams, there are very few penalties even committed during most games, as almost everybody knows how to play without hooking, clutching, and grabbing... Your assumption about the players is WAY off. What exactly does "at that level" even mean?
Yea I've done those leagues as well, where you have to know someone to get in, and the pre-req is having played at the Major Junior level or above, sometimes those are the biggest primadonnas and cry when they get a stick in the hands instead of fighting through it.

You say there are very few penalties committed, which is interesting because I assumed you were a player in the league.

Again, I reiterate, in most games, if not all games, there are penalties committed that are not called because of the simple logistics of it.

But you have fun getting pissed off at the officials each week, at least they get a chuckle out of it I am assuming...

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10-26-2011, 08:58 PM
  #98
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I don't think you understand the league, here.

I'm not sure how the beer leagues are where you are from, but on my team, all of us have played at a pretty high level. We have all played travel hockey, and quite a few have played juniors, college, and beyond. We are all well aware of what is a penalty, and what is not. We don't commit a penalty every period, let alone every shift, as you seem to assume. I'm not talking about beer leagues where guys have never played anything but beer league... I'm talking about pretty high level hockey here. There are people that have played junior A, NCAA, college club hockey, and even some guys that have played pro hockey playing in these leagues... In the games between the better teams, there are very few penalties even committed during most games, as almost everybody knows how to play without hooking, clutching, and grabbing... Your assumption about the players is WAY off. What exactly does "at that level" even mean?
My C league team has two guys that played Junior A/B, one ex D-I, three ex D-III players and a number of guys who played travel hockey as kids. And a lot of those guys take plenty of penalties. Has nothing at all to do with the experience level of the player. Has to do with the mental state of the player. For every hack that's out there whacking away, there's an ex-Junior/College player doing the exact same thing.

IMO, the refs have to walk a fine line, between keeping the games safe and keeping them going.

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10-26-2011, 09:27 PM
  #99
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Yeah I was gonna say these guys are lucky! I assume you're talking about ASHL. Out in Delta we get 32 games + playoffs for $12k. With 14 skaters that works out to about $860 each for the season. Yikes.
I think he's talking about Coast. Delta is the planetice league? Even though it's more expensive, I believe it's slightly cheaper per skater per game than Coast, last time I checked. I've played both and find planetice to give you waaay more ice time. That's my main complaint with Coast. Some games being 10-12-10 is just unacceptable.
Talking about the TAHL (at the UBC rink), although I used to play in the Coast league in Richmond and I believe the per-game prices were very similar. The TAHL works out to $820 per person with 14 people, or $765 per person with 15 (though in reality slightly cheaper, we collect $25 per sub per game, and use this to lower the price for regulars).

As for game length, slightly longer games in the TAHL vs. Coast, three 13 minute periods every time (none of this variable length 3rd period), and always with OT and a shootout if necessary. Longer warmup too, often 10+ mins, and IMO better refs. Games are spaced 1:30 apart, I believe they pack them in closer in Coast, hence the short games and chincey warmups. Also better ice times in the TAHL, our weekday games start no earlier than 6:30 pm and no later than 9:30 pm, and weekend games tend to be in the afternoon or early evening. Just a better league overall IMO.

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10-27-2011, 01:13 AM
  #100
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Ice604 is probably the worst I'm guessing. Super late start times, poorly managed, but cheap.

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