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Old
10-26-2011, 09:43 AM
  #26
PKtrollban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Don't be fooled by the media. They are the ones paiting management as this big secretive organization.
What is really funny is that the journalist cant even recognize their wrong doing.
Yesterday on l'antichambre, Francois Gagnon was speaking of it with Phillipe Canton.
Their reasoning was that when you dont share things, it leaves room for speculations. So medias will write/talk, rumors and speculations will be born. They flat out blame management for that. But in reality, they are the ones fabricating and intensifying these speculations. If anybody is the blame, it is the people creating them.
Then, they try to spin it as if management should be more communicative to their fans because they owe it to us. This is absolute BS. All it really is, is a bunch of frustrated journalists that have a harder time doing their jobs. They wont not write their articles, so they will write speculative and critical articles about management instead. They are simply unprofessional.

I am a fan, a big one. I do not give two craps to know if Markov is gone for 2months or 4. Whenever he is a week or two away from return, it will be evident as he will be skating with the team. In the meantime, i dont care if he is in miami, moscow or tripoli.
I do not need to hear gauthier say he is working the phones. Actions speak louder than words.

This is pure BS from the media, dont buy into it.
Yep, and you forgot to mention that a bunch of those journalists were Quebec Nordiques fans and ALWAYS dissed the Habs, ie, Réjean Tremblay. François Gagnon is a Sens fan, so he will usually bash everything Habs without an ounce of objectivity.

I personnaly think the Habs are better and played better than what their record shows, mostly due to mental breakdowns at key moments and badluck.

Their biggest issue is lack of size and toughness and a #1 playmaking center. Brad Richards would have been a great fit but it seems we're never in the race for those top notch centers.

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Old
10-26-2011, 10:22 AM
  #27
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- The team's policy of secrecy and lack of transparency with the public (general attitude of a constant struggle with media & fans)
A serious person, a person who understands the GAME of hocky, someone with issues in their life more important that pro sports does not count on an honest interview with the GM/coach or players to make their life complete, or even to form an opinion of their own.

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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- failure to bring/keep a top6 center with size.
This is a hockey issue which I can get behind.

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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- unwillingness to make big moves at the trade deadline
I do not think this is true or an issue.
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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- consistently signing 3rd line & 5th D- players at the start of the season and sell it as a "solution" to last year's problems
I do not think that these signings are ever touted as a solution to all the problems by team management. That is more of a slanted perception by fans.

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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- failure to recognize the need to add depth in case of injuries
Love him or hate him, this issue was addressed this off season, as well as since the season started and injuries piled up.

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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- unwillingness to sign gritty players, and/or enforcers
Gritty players yes. Enforcers, no.

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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- Playing fans for fools, and generally not taking any action whilst revenues are flowing, unless the situation becomes truly dire.
Fans need to start acting like a bunch of whiny girls. "playing fans for fools".... get over yourself. If you do not enjoy pro-hockey, do something else with your money and time. Vote with your wallet.

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Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
- "mindset" problems that prevent the team from tanking to rebuild, from attracting free agents, and selecting non-francophone staff
The other tradition the Habs have WAS winning. Since the fans no longer concern themselves with winning, well... at least we can get more GREAT interviews with players and coaches!!!

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Old
10-26-2011, 10:33 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
The mentality that speed and skill is the only sure fire way to success, we have become too unidimensional with most players offering similar skill sets. There is no balance on this club between toughness, size and finesse, has gotten better in more recent times, but more work needs to be done.

Thats the problem.


a full roster of lightweight doesn't work in this NHL. Sometimes when the score is 1-0 in favor of your opponent you NEED to send a strong message.


keep an advice from my friend Boris;


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10-26-2011, 10:37 AM
  #29
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I remember an interview when Boucher was coaching in Hamilton with a call up. The callup said that the systm played on the farm team was not even close to the system played on the Habs. Does ths make sense from an organizational point of view? Where's the consistency?should they not be playing the same system?

QUOTE=Mike The Wall;38497269]My thoughts are that the 1 of the core problems is the that we have a coach that wants his players to play in a defensive system and in turn we have 8 forwards that are offensive in their play. Brian Gionta, Mike Cam, Max Pac, Lars Eller, Scott Gomez, Eric Cole, Andrei K., David Desharnais, You are asking these players to play a defensive game when in turn you can give them a run and gun game with speed to burn which are more suited for.

everyone knows you do not ask a race horse to plow the fields and you do ask a mule to run the kentucky derby.

We have a certain style of player and we are playing them another way.

Jacques Martin is more cut out to coach the Devils then the Canadiens.[/QUOTE]

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Old
10-26-2011, 11:43 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
Thats the problem.


a full roster of lightweight doesn't work in this NHL. Sometimes when the score is 1-0 in favor of your opponent you NEED to send a strong message.


keep an advice from my friend Boris;

How is having THREE small players a "roster full of lightweights"? Did Gill, Cole, Pacioretty, Moen, Eller, Darche, Subban, Emelin, AK etc all shrink to 5'9" 175lbs?

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:12 PM
  #31
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In no particular order :

1 - Injuries - three Ds and various forwards.
2 - Jacques Martin - he is not a leader and a motivator and that's the biggest problem.
3 - Kirk Muller - they lost their leader - he communicated and motivated
4 - Price and Subban - they have both struggled
5 - Size and grit - how many times has Price been run over?
6 - luck - they were awful against Pittsburgh but they could-shoud have won other games with a bit of luck.

It's not all lost however. With a full lineup, they should be much better offensively and defensively. Price and Subban will be better. MaxPac, Eller and AK are young and improving every game. The young D (Weber, Diaz, Emelin) are gaining valuable experience and playing better and better. Cole will get better also. Markov will return at one point.

Trades are difficult so improving size and grit is tough to do. Nokoleinenennen isn't a bad player but if you're going to make a trade, how about a bit of size and tougness.

It won't happen soon enough but a coaching change (Therrien, Muller, Crawford) could turn this team around fairly quickly.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:24 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
The biggest failure is letting politics, language and companies that advertise with the team control who is hired when it comes to Management, Coaching and even the staff with the team and Bell Centre.

If I were Geoff Molson, I would tell the media and sponsors that we are going to hire Mike Babcock or Steve Yzerman because we want to win the cup and nothing else matters, only winning and having the best of the best in every aspect of every department.
I agree, this is the biggest problem. Not being able to hire the best of the best due to language issues has really hindered the team's success.

And really, how bad would it be if you simply hired a french assistant coach and a french assistant GM to talk to the french media when necessary? I mean basically all that has changed since the Scotty Bowman days is that media is 10 times as ensconsed as it used to be, and coaches and management get asked questions that much more. As long as there was someone to field some questions in french, i think it would be alright.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:25 PM
  #33
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Agree with most of the points, lack of size and grit, poor asset management, JM's system etc.

I also think overall the intense fan and media attention in Montreal actually hurts the team in many ways. Most other GMs and coaches can operate without millions of people looking over their shoulders, and players can work through slumps. I'd venture that in most markets, all but a couple of stars can walk the streets like normal people, in Montreal even a fourth liner gets mobbed. I forget who it was but a former leaf who was traded south was said to remark, sitting in the dressing room after his first game with his new team, "when do we open the door for to let in the media?" Of course the door was already open...

I have not lost faith and I am still hopeful we can squeeze into a playoff position, if i have to pick what I think is the biggest issue right now it would be JM.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:27 PM
  #34
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Core issues:
We have a speed team playing in a slow defensive system.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:41 PM
  #35
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WE need a big center...ie over 6' and over 200lbs...or can be under 6" but must be Crosbyesque

Since no one will trade us an established 1st line center then we must get creative...i say dangle Cammy in front of TO but i want Colborne + 1st rounder from them.

We get a center whom i truly believe we can build around. It's not about trading everyone but doing the right trades

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:41 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Don't be fooled by the media. They are the ones paiting management as this big secretive organization.
What is really funny is that the journalist cant even recognize their wrong doing.
Yesterday on l'antichambre, Francois Gagnon was speaking of it with Phillipe Canton.
Their reasoning was that when you dont share things, it leaves room for speculations. So medias will write/talk, rumors and speculations will be born. They flat out blame management for that. But in reality, they are the ones fabricating and intensifying these speculations. If anybody is the blame, it is the people creating them.
Then, they try to spin it as if management should be more communicative to their fans because they owe it to us. This is absolute BS. All it really is, is a bunch of frustrated journalists that have a harder time doing their jobs. They wont not write their articles, so they will write speculative and critical articles about management instead. They are simply unprofessional.

I am a fan, a big one. I do not give two craps to know if Markov is gone for 2months or 4. Whenever he is a week or two away from return, it will be evident as he will be skating with the team. In the meantime, i dont care if he is in miami, moscow or tripoli.
I do not need to hear gauthier say he is working the phones. Actions speak louder than words.

This is pure BS from the media, dont buy into it.
You know I'll have to disagree with you. Again, it's not all about being black or white. NOBODY thinks that Gauthier should be in direct contact with HF every day to tell us which calls he received or not. But I do believe it's a question of respect when at the draft, you actually shut up your head scout so that Mr. Gauthier himself gives infos to the fans of players he has no idea who they are. I believe that as fans, we should be respected more than to have the post-season scrum 1 day after they get eliminated so that they would have nothing to say, a lot of "We will see", as a matter of fact a scrum we would TOTALLY do without. And then you compare it to other press conferences when GM's ACTUALLY do pinpoint their weaknesses and tell the fans what they will be looking at.

Then, as minor as the trade was, pretty sure the GM of any team will add his comment about it but not in Montreal.....Didn't happened for the Nokelainen trade.

Again, this is just one topic. It does NOT mean less wins or more wins whether he talks or not. We are discussing it because it is the subject we're discussing. Yet, I still believei it is somewhat important. And honestly, I believe that the organization is taking the fans for granted. With the new numbers as far as attendance, strangely, I believe that you will see some change in the near future.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:42 PM
  #37
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Our core issues are not injuries. Not unless by "issues" you mean things preventing us from competing for 8th place. Markov would help get us into the playoffs but that's about it.

Our core issues are deeper than this.

- We don't (and haven't for a long time) have top end talent to compete for a cup.
- We don't have enough size in our top six.
- We are one-dimensional
- We are overly reliant on goaltending and special teams
- Our blueline lacks depth (esp since Markov's injury problems)
- We don't have elite talent in our farm system

These issues will not go away one Scott Gomez comes back off the DL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
The mentality that speed and skill is the only sure fire way to success, we have become too unidimensional with most players offering similar skill sets. There is no balance on this club between toughness, size and finesse, has gotten better in more recent times, but more work needs to be done.
Good post.

Just to add to this though, speed and sill would even be fine except that we don't have elite skill either. Hard to believe that we keep talking about how skilled we are when we don't have players who crack the top 25 in scoring. It would be one thing if we had elite skilled players to help but we don't have this. We just talk about having it.

We are perpetually in the bottom 3rd for offense and management seems to think that we're a skilled team. Something isn't right here.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
I agree, this is the biggest problem. Not being able to hire the best of the best due to language issues has really hindered the team's success.

And really, how bad would it be if you simply hired a french assistant coach and a french assistant GM to talk to the french media when necessary? I mean basically all that has changed since the Scotty Bowman days is that media is 10 times as ensconsed as it used to be, and coaches and management get asked questions that much more. As long as there was someone to field some questions in french, i think it would be alright.
With all due respect, that is a bunch of bull.

Name me ONE TIME when that was an actual issue for the team, rather than a political talking point for anglophones.

BG was not franco, and was revered here as god's gift to hockey.
PG was god's gift to hockey's chosen successor.

AV is an award winning stanley cup finalist.
MT is a stanley cup finalist
CJ is an award winning stanley cup winner.
GC was god's gift to hockey's annointed candidate and an adams finalist.
JM is an award winning stanley cup finalist.

Who else could the team have chosen???

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How is having THREE small players a "roster full of lightweights"? Did Gill, Cole, Pacioretty, Moen, Eller, Darche, Subban, Emelin, AK etc all shrink to 5'9" 175lbs?
Small in the way they play.


Cole, Max Pac, Moen,Georges, Subban, White I can live with that but the rest....

Gill is maybe 7foot tall but my chihuahua is more aggressive.

then you have Gionta, Gomez, DD, Plek, AK, Cammy, Darche, Ellers, Palushay, Diaz, Spacek, Weber



watch the game tonight against the Flyers.

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10-26-2011, 12:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
Small in the way they play.


Cole, Max Pac, Moen,Georges, Subban, White I can live with that but the rest....

Gill is maybe 7foot tall but my chihuahua is more aggressive.

then you have Gionta, Gomez, DD, Plek, AK, Cammy, Darche, Ellers, Palushay, Diaz, Spacek, Weber



watch the game tonight against the Flyers.
I advise you to watch the games as well.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:57 PM
  #41
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How is having THREE small players a "roster full of lightweights"? Did Gill, Cole, Pacioretty, Moen, Eller, Darche, Subban, Emelin, AK etc all shrink to 5'9" 175lbs?
Our top six is two third Smurf. Cammy, Gionta, Pleks and Gomez are all smaller guys and it makes no sense to build your top six this way.

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Old
10-26-2011, 01:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Agree with most of the points, lack of size and grit, poor asset management, JM's system etc.

I also think overall the intense fan and media attention in Montreal actually hurts the team in many ways. Most other GMs and coaches can operate without millions of people looking over their shoulders, and players can work through slumps. I'd venture that in most markets, all but a couple of stars can walk the streets like normal people, in Montreal even a fourth liner gets mobbed. I forget who it was but a former leaf who was traded south was said to remark, sitting in the dressing room after his first game with his new team, "when do we open the door for to let in the media?" Of course the door was already open...

I have not lost faith and I am still hopeful we can squeeze into a playoff position, if i have to pick what I think is the biggest issue right now it would be JM.
Pierre Gauthier might as well be a mute. He won't speak in French or English.

During the RDS telecasts, Marc Denis (Joel Bouchard last year) will interview Perry Pearn during a tv timeout in English and then translate.

But during the TSN telecasts, Pierre McGuire or whovever is doing that game between the benches will interview Jacques Martin in English.

... and they worry about a French speaking coach!

That said, I wouldn't mind Michel Therrien, Marc Crawford or Patrick Roy back there... some emotion and passion!

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10-26-2011, 01:09 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I advise you to watch the games as well.
Ok I give you that AK and Eller are playing big right now, the problem is when the game get a little bit ugly (ex, VS Boston,Toronto,Philly) they seem to look away..ala Brisebois.

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10-26-2011, 01:17 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
Ok I give you that AK and Eller are playing big right now, the problem is when the game get a little bit ugly (ex, VS Boston,Toronto,Philly) they seem to look away..ala Brisebois.
Please....

If you want to play THAT game, you should name all the HABS players that did not retaliate when their teamates are attacked... See Maxpac vs Chara

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10-26-2011, 01:27 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
WE need a big center...ie over 6' and over 200lbs...or can be under 6" but must be Crosbyesque

Since no one will trade us an established 1st line center then we must get creative...i say dangle Cammy in front of TO but i want Colborne + 1st rounder from them.

We get a center whom i truly believe we can build around. It's not about trading everyone but doing the right trades
His name is Lars Eller.

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10-26-2011, 01:36 PM
  #46
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Restricted management choices combined with an inability to attract top flight talent have resulted in consistently mediocre teams with the capacity to give you hope by exceeding expectation or take it from you by their failure to meet it. This team needs a philosophy and direction that extends beyond trying to stay competitive in a 30 team league. Winning requires planning, not reactions yet it seems reacting is all we've done for the past decade.

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10-26-2011, 01:43 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Please....

If you want to play THAT game, you should name all the HABS players that did not retaliate when their teamates are attacked... See Maxpac vs Chara

I did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
Small in the way they play.


Cole, Max Pac, Moen,Georges, Subban, White I can live with that but the rest....

Gill is maybe 7foot tall but my chihuahua is more aggressive.

then you have Gionta, Gomez, DD, Plek, AK, Cammy, Darche, Ellers, Palushay, Diaz, Spacek, Weber



watch the game tonight against the Flyers.

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10-26-2011, 01:48 PM
  #48
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I did
Gionta is one of the grittiest guy there always on the front of the net and battling for pucks, exact same thing for Darche.

Eller hold the pucks ala Forsberg, always battle hard for pucks, go in front of the net, hits and make room for himself with his physical strenght. Should I remind you the coffee shop incident in the playoffs.

Kostitsyn is about impossible to hit and one of our leader in hits. Should I reming you hits he has done on guys like Lucic.

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10-26-2011, 04:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You know I'll have to disagree with you. Again, it's not all about being black or white. NOBODY thinks that Gauthier should be in direct contact with HF every day to tell us which calls he received or not. But I do believe it's a question of respect when at the draft, you actually shut up your head scout so that Mr. Gauthier himself gives infos to the fans of players he has no idea who they are. I believe that as fans, we should be respected more than to have the post-season scrum 1 day after they get eliminated so that they would have nothing to say, a lot of "We will see", as a matter of fact a scrum we would TOTALLY do without. And then you compare it to other press conferences when GM's ACTUALLY do pinpoint their weaknesses and tell the fans what they will be looking at.

Then, as minor as the trade was, pretty sure the GM of any team will add his comment about it but not in Montreal.....Didn't happened for the Nokelainen trade.

Again, this is just one topic. It does NOT mean less wins or more wins whether he talks or not. We are discussing it because it is the subject we're discussing. Yet, I still believei it is somewhat important. And honestly, I believe that the organization is taking the fans for granted. With the new numbers as far as attendance, strangely, I believe that you will see some change in the near future.
I am going to have to disagree with you. I dont think Gauthier owes anything to the fans other than put on a winning team. I could not care less if he adresses the masses or not, really, I dont. It changes nothing to me.
I think some fans would like it because it makes them feel closer to their team, or more comfortable knowing they have someone that gives more about them, but he does not owe the fans any interviews. The man can seclude himself in his office all year, if our team does well, it is all I care about.
If the team plays poorly, then he will answer questions at the end of the year if he is still around. It will be because his decisions lead to a poor year, not because he isn't updating fans about injuries or possible deals.

Some fans might wnt him to be more vocal, fine. But I want people to quit saying he "owes" it to them, because he really does not.

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