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Old
10-26-2011, 08:10 AM
  #26
Gnashville
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I'd just like to point out that the free agent market this past offseason was pretty weak, outside a couple of guys. The 2012 free agent market looks FAR more promising.
3 of the top FA's this offseason are all our players Who's gonna want to sign here with them gone????

This team is reverting into expansion mode quickly. Waiting on young guys to break out. It's not gonna happen. Poile drafted them, but they are not as talented as he thought. This is what you get when you only draft Defense and Goalie 1st 2nd and 3rd and reach at kids in the later rounds. Patheic team right now and not showing any signs of improving.

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Old
10-26-2011, 09:28 AM
  #27
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The 2012 free agent market looks FAR more promising.
Yeah, because our 3 best players are headlining it. Lol.

Thanks for doing nothing about that this summer, David.


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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
But that doesn't matter. You see Poile is supposed to make a call, get the other teams top 2 players for a 7th round pick.He's also supposed to call the top free agents and tell them he would like to sign them at half of their current salary and they will line up outside his office door for the chance.
</sarcasm>
I knew it was just a matter of time before one of the sheep would come by to bark at us from across the fence.

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Old
10-26-2011, 09:51 AM
  #28
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woof

The point is unless you have a ringside seat in Poile's office we don't know what he tried to do. We don't know the calls that were made and we don't know what the response from those calls may have been. I don't claim to know specifics but I do know that he didn't just sit at his desk playing Angry Birds on his phone. The Weber negotiations tied his hands to a certain extent, if that could have been worked out things may have been different.

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10-26-2011, 10:18 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
woof

The point is unless you have a ringside seat in Poile's office we don't know what he tried to do. We don't know the calls that were made and we don't know what the response from those calls may have been. I don't claim to know specifics but I do know that he didn't just sit at his desk playing Angry Birds on his phone. The Weber negotiations tied his hands to a certain extent, if that could have been worked out things may have been different.
I'm usually a Poile supporter and I would generally agree with this but at a certain point someone has to be held accountable for the complete regression of the team after last year's high. I also don't have a ton of faith that Poile was too desperate to add pieces because of how quickly we got rid of important players, especially a player like Ward who wasn't exactly going to make Shea Weber money.

There were SOME players available this offseason. I mean hell look at Florida. They added Tomas Fleischmann, Scottie Upshall, Marcel Goc (oops), and even got Tomas Kopecky in a trade for only a 7th round pick. Just an example. If we were already in salary-shredding mode after last season I don't understand why. I mean yeah, we needed to re-sign Weber but if we have to dump the salaries of our good players just to bring back one of the three then we have some serious problems.

The fact that Trotz has made a living getting more out of less, and we're still struggling mightily kinda worries me, and I don't think anyone could dispute that.

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Old
10-26-2011, 11:12 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I'm usually a Poile supporter and I would generally agree with this but at a certain point someone has to be held accountable for the complete regression of the team after last year's high. I also don't have a ton of faith that Poile was too desperate to add pieces because of how quickly we got rid of important players, especially a player like Ward who wasn't exactly going to make Shea Weber money.

There were SOME players available this offseason. I mean hell look at Florida. They added Tomas Fleischmann, Scottie Upshall, Marcel Goc (oops), and even got Tomas Kopecky in a trade for only a 7th round pick. Just an example. If we were already in salary-shredding mode after last season I don't understand why. I mean yeah, we needed to re-sign Weber but if we have to dump the salaries of our good players just to bring back one of the three then we have some serious problems.

The fact that Trotz has made a living getting more out of less, and we're still struggling mightily kinda worries me, and I don't think anyone could dispute that.
Good points.

Let me save some posters some time and say:

it's too hard to make a trade, it takes months and months and months and possibly a decade or 2 to make a deal.

We really didn't save any money with moving Lombardi/Franson

[insert your favorite free agent] is too injury prone, expensive, risky, or won't sign here

All our team full of 3rd/4th line grinders need is an opportunity

We're saving money for some late summer cuts

Oh we didn't add anyone, well, we now have flexibility for a blockbuster 2012 trade deadline deal.

Derp derp, we added Mike Freakin' Fisher, what else do you want Poile to do!

We don't know what Poile did or didn't do

it's only for entertainment, no need to get so caught up in it

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Old
10-26-2011, 11:34 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Good points.

Let me save some posters some time and say:

it's too hard to make a trade, it takes months and months and months and possibly a decade or 2 to make a deal.

We really didn't save any money with moving Lombardi/Franson

[insert your favorite free agent] is too injury prone, expensive, risky, or won't sign here

All our team full of 3rd/4th line grinders need is an opportunity

We're saving money for some late summer cuts

Oh we didn't add anyone, well, we now have flexibility for a blockbuster 2012 trade deadline deal.

Derp derp, we added Mike Freakin' Fisher, what else do you want Poile to do!

We don't know what Poile did or didn't do

it's only for entertainment, no need to get so caught up in it

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Old
10-26-2011, 11:47 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I'm usually a Poile supporter and I would generally agree with this but at a certain point someone has to be held accountable for the complete regression of the team after last year's high. I also don't have a ton of faith that Poile was too desperate to add pieces because of how quickly we got rid of important players, especially a player like Ward who wasn't exactly going to make Shea Weber money.

There were SOME players available this offseason. I mean hell look at Florida. They added Tomas Fleischmann, Scottie Upshall, Marcel Goc (oops), and even got Tomas Kopecky in a trade for only a 7th round pick. Just an example. If we were already in salary-shredding mode after last season I don't understand why. I mean yeah, we needed to re-sign Weber but if we have to dump the salaries of our good players just to bring back one of the three then we have some serious problems.

The fact that Trotz has made a living getting more out of less, and we're still struggling mightily kinda worries me, and I don't think anyone could dispute that.
Last offseason bothers me, but I think it's a culmination of the last 3 years of complacency from Poile.

We've watched a pretty good stockpoile of assets diminish. 3-4 years ago, we had Hamhuis, Zanon, Radulov, Zidlicky, Ward, Sullivan (w/ trade value), Dumont (w/ trade value), Pickard (w/ trade value), Franson (w/ trade value), among others. Asset-wise, we have nothing to show for all these guys.

Sure, last year's FA class wasn't the best, but there have been options over the last 3 years.

His contract tendencies are extremely frustrating. I feel like we could have signed Weber a year ago with his old agent. He was just named captain, "wanted to be in Nashville for the long haul", etc, and Poile said he would talk to his agent when they were in the same city. Recently, he said "call me old fashion, but I prefer to negotiate in person." There is something to said about face-to-face meetings, but you need to use every tool you have available. Most people do business over the phone these days, and the "let's wait it out" approach will only get your team so far. We've seen him operate this way for 12 years now, and he's not a guy working the phones to make the team better. He's patient, and complacent to a fault. The only time he's really comfortable trading significant assets is at the deadline, when the price is a premium, and we typically further squander assets.

As for now, we need more pieces to make these team better, but we are desperate. Making moves out of desperation rarely works, especially now that we don't have any kind of NHL ready depth to help fill holes created by a trade.

Our best hope right now is that Trotz can turn below-average talent team back into a playoff team. I have much less hope that Poile will sign Rinne, Suter, Weber, or make a good trade.

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Old
10-26-2011, 11:49 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Good points.

Let me save some posters some time and say:

it's too hard to make a trade, it takes months and months and months and possibly a decade or 2 to make a deal.

We really didn't save any money with moving Lombardi/Franson

[insert your favorite free agent] is too injury prone, expensive, risky, or won't sign here

All our team full of 3rd/4th line grinders need is an opportunity

We're saving money for some late summer cuts

Oh we didn't add anyone, well, we now have flexibility for a blockbuster 2012 trade deadline deal.

Derp derp, we added Mike Freakin' Fisher, what else do you want Poile to do!

We don't know what Poile did or didn't do

it's only for entertainment, no need to get so caught up in it
Sarcasm aside, I think this is the most important thing to keep in mind

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:14 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Last offseason bothers me, but I think it's a culmination of the last 3 years of complacency from Poile.

We've watched a pretty good stockpoile of assets diminish. 3-4 years ago, we had Hamhuis, Zanon, Radulov, Zidlicky, Ward, Sullivan (w/ trade value), Dumont (w/ trade value), Pickard (w/ trade value), Franson (w/ trade value), among others. Asset-wise, we have nothing to show for all these guys.

Sure, last year's FA class wasn't the best, but there have been options over the last 3 years.

His contract tendencies are extremely frustrating. I feel like we could have signed Weber a year ago with his old agent. He was just named captain, "wanted to be in Nashville for the long haul", etc, and Poile said he would talk to his agent when they were in the same city. Recently, he said "call me old fashion, but I prefer to negotiate in person." There is something to said about face-to-face meetings, but you need to use every tool you have available. Most people do business over the phone these days, and the "let's wait it out" approach will only get your team so far. We've seen him operate this way for 12 years now, and he's not a guy working the phones to make the team better. He's patient, and complacent to a fault. The only time he's really comfortable trading significant assets is at the deadline, when the price is a premium, and we typically further squander assets.

As for now, we need more pieces to make these team better, but we are desperate. Making moves out of desperation rarely works, especially now that we don't have any kind of NHL ready depth to help fill holes created by a trade.

Our best hope right now is that Trotz can turn below-average talent team back into a playoff team. I have much less hope that Poile will sign Rinne, Suter, Weber, or make a good trade.
We have to wonder if we're on the "outside looking in" come February if Poile would be looking to trade one of the three.

I think in order of likelihood to stay with us if things go normally it's: Suter, Rinne, Weber.

Remember Weber is restricted after the season, so if he signs somewhere else we're going to get a lot of meaningful draft picks in return (I can already sense Poile's excitement), so I doubt he is traded unless a team is really desperate. I wouldn't be surprised if a team put a lot on the table to trade for him near the deadline though. Especially a big market team with some players who we could use in return. And as you said, desperation moves rarely work.....let's see if a team tries anyway. There's always a few.

I can see Suter staying here more than Weber, but still it's risky as hell to go into free agency without trying to get some serious trade value for him rather than nothing at all. Obviously Poile will be feeling it out and will have some sense of Suter's future plans, but again I wouldn't be shocked if he was traded. Although the difficulty is that if you trade Suter for value AND trade Weber for value we won't be able to afford all the pieces we traded for eventually. Of course draft picks are the easiest way out of this because they aren't NHL ready (yay) so who knows maybe Poile goes that way with Weber.

Rinne is interesting because we've been traditionally awesome with goaltenders, but he is the best of the best. Do we get over-confident in our ability to move on without him, or do we do whatever it takes to bring him back?

I know it's all speculation but just for fun I'm going to say it plays out like this......Weber is traded at the deadline for a good amount that shakes our team up. With a few new faces heading into the end of the season, we get some new life. People are excited, and then Suter re-signs for 4 years/23 million and Pekka re-signs for 3 years/18 million.

Heyooooo crystal ball.


Last edited by Drake744: 10-26-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old
10-26-2011, 12:14 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Good points.

Let me save some posters some time and say:

it's too hard to make a trade, it takes months and months and months and possibly a decade or 2 to make a deal.

We really didn't save any money with moving Lombardi/Franson

[insert your favorite free agent] is too injury prone, expensive, risky, or won't sign here

All our team full of 3rd/4th line grinders need is an opportunity

We're saving money for some late summer cuts

Oh we didn't add anyone, well, we now have flexibility for a blockbuster 2012 trade deadline deal.

Derp derp, we added Mike Freakin' Fisher, what else do you want Poile to do!

We don't know what Poile did or didn't do

it's only for entertainment, no need to get so caught up in it
Tell that to the people that buy suites/or any high dollar expense (I'm seriously considering moving back to the bleeders next season) ... soon there won't be any suites bought IF this is the entertainment that those people will be buying for their dollar

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:31 PM
  #36
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For those of us who watched on tv. Pete and Terry now can't identify the players anymore. Too many times Terry can't identify who the player was on particular plays. If I heard it once I heard it many times last night. We need a ugly goal and bump and boot anything to score. No we needed a legit goal like Smith gave us and others to score legit. Of course any goals are good but ugly goals are more luck than anything.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by sparkle twin View Post

So you're not a Preds fan anymore? Or is it only cool to wear a Predators jersey when they're winning? Meanwhile, we're only 0-2-1 at home and were 3-0 during the preseason.
I am a Preds fan, a very passionte one at that. I pay for a full season and half season ticket. I am not boycotting games or dumping my tickets. I have a right to express my displeasure in what ever form I feel like.

Honestly, I hope the ownership looks at what Poile has wrought and decides he needs to find work elsewhere. That is the only way things will change.

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:44 PM
  #38
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I am a Preds fan. I pay for a full season and half season ticket. I am not boycotting games or dumping my tickets. I have a right to express my displeasure in what ever form I feel like.

Honestly, I hope the ownership looks at what Poile has wrought and decides he needs to find work elsewhere. That is the only way things will change.
That really depends on whether or not they feel Fenton is ready to take over the team, and whether or not Fenton feels enough loyalty to Poile to go with him. Let's face it, Poile will likely find work if and when he leaves Nashville.

We could always hire MacLean

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Old
10-26-2011, 12:45 PM
  #39
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Sarcasm aside, I think this is the most important thing to keep in mind
Hockey is never just for entertainment as a dedicated die hard fan you have far more invested into your team and sport than most. I do not play nor follow hockey for entertainment at all. I hate losing wether it is my team my childrens team or my fav NHL team.

For those harping on Hockey Diva she is as big a fan as I have run into outside of an original 6 teams fan if she wants to show her displeasure by sporting another teams jersey till the Preds start winning more power to her. She is the closest thing to a HABS fan I have ever met without actually being a HABS fan mind you she sure has all the right qualities.

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Old
10-26-2011, 01:17 PM
  #40
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Hockey is never just for entertainment as a dedicated die hard fan you have far more invested into your team and sport than most. I do not play nor follow hockey for entertainment at all. I hate losing wether it is my team my childrens team or my fav NHL team.

For those harping on Hockey Diva she is as big a fan as I have run into outside of an original 6 teams fan if she wants to show her displeasure by sporting another teams jersey till the Preds start winning more power to her. She is the closest thing to a HABS fan I have ever met without actually being a HABS fan mind you she sure has all the right qualities.
It is considered rude to insult women that way. You should apologize.

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Old
10-26-2011, 01:21 PM
  #41
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It is considered rude to insult women that way. You should apologize.
LOL so you are calling yourself a women then muahahaha...

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Old
10-26-2011, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Legwand is Legwand. He is going to be a good player for us, and right now he is still on a PPG pace. I don't think anyone expects him to keep that up (I don't think he has registered a point in four games), but it's still good to see that maybe, just maybe, he has some line mates that will help him be as good as he can be on both ends of the ice.
.
Legwand has one EN goal & one flubber goal. He has one primary assist. He's a placeholder on a scoring-line and shouldn't be counted on to create or capitalize on offense. You will have scoring problems if you count on him in that role.

It's not negativity, it's reality.

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10-26-2011, 01:27 PM
  #43
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It is considered rude to insult women that way. You should apologize.
While I appreciate the gesture 101st, I think I can decide whether I have been insulted or not. And I am not.

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10-26-2011, 01:38 PM
  #44
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While I appreciate the gesture 101st, I think I can decide whether I have been insulted or not. And I am not.
If you don't consider being called like a Habs fan an insult, well, there's no help.

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10-26-2011, 01:43 PM
  #45
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Legwand has one EN goal & one flubber goal. He has one primary assist. He's a placeholder on a scoring-line and shouldn't be counted on to create or capitalize on offense. You will have scoring problems if you count on him in that role.

It's not negativity, it's reality.
Ugly goals count too.

Leggy did pretty well from Jan - May last season scoring and if we didn't count on him then the team doesn't make the post season or advance past the first round.

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Old
10-26-2011, 01:45 PM
  #46
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Looks nice.

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10-26-2011, 01:51 PM
  #47
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Ugly goals count too.

Leggy did pretty well from Jan - May last season scoring and if we didn't count on him then the team doesn't make the post season or advance past the first round.
Same thing could be said for Kosisytne, Ward, Weber, O'Brien, Fisher, HornQ, Erat, Suter, Rinne, Sullian, Halishuk, Dumont (some huge points vs Anaheim), Tootoo, etc, etc. Without them, we wouldn't have made it past the 1st rd.

Flubber goals and EN goals count, but you can't count on those to create sustained offense throughout an entire season.

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10-26-2011, 03:19 PM
  #48
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For those of us who watched on tv. Pete and Terry now can't identify the players anymore. Too many times Terry can't identify who the player was on particular plays. If I heard it once I heard it many times last night. We need a ugly goal and bump and boot anything to score. No we needed a legit goal like Smith gave us and others to score legit. Of course any goals are good but ugly goals are more luck than anything.
Exactly. Although not always true, there's a lot of luck involved. Bouncing pucks, defender/goalie positioning, rebounds, hell even sometimes whether or not a guy happens to be right or left handed can come into play. It's great to get garbage goals, but our franchise valuing guys like Hartnell, then Ward, now Hornqvist is supposed to be an added luxury, not the main source of offense.

There's no way to rely on ugly goals and be a good team throughout the course of a whole season. It has to come from multiple sources. Offensive traffic generated by the primary threats, THEN fight for the ugly goals.

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10-26-2011, 03:24 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Legwand has one EN goal & one flubber goal. He has one primary assist. He's a placeholder on a scoring-line and shouldn't be counted on to create or capitalize on offense. You will have scoring problems if you count on him in that role.

It's not negativity, it's reality.
Ah! Sneaky! You pulled a quote from the positive thread

Look, everyone knows Legwand isn't going to finish the year with 82 points. I don't think he will finish the year much higher than 50 at most. The point of the thread in which I posted that was looking for positives so far in the season. Anyone who says Legwand hasn't been one of the positive spots of this young and so-far forgettable season either isn't paying attention or just doesn't care to give credit to Legwand. I agree if you have to count on Legwand for scoring then you will have scoring problems, but only if you are only counting on Legwand. He plays a good supporting role in the top six, and that is what his job should be. That's also reality.

As far as "ugly goals" go, I'd venture to say that at least a small majority of all goals scored in the NHL are "ugly goals", or lucky goals as some have taken to describing them. Hell, even a good snipe can often times be considered luck. How often have you seen players barely miss the open corner stick side? If it goes in, it's a beautiful goal, sure, but in the heat of a game the difference between barely missing high and wide, ringing it off of the post, or sneaking it over the shoulder of the goalie really boils down to luck. Otherwise, so-called "snipers" would be able to score at will. There doesn't exist anyone in the league who scores at will.

Goals come from hard work, both in games and in practice. If you keep doing the right things the goals will come. It doesn't matter if you swept in a rebound for a "garbage goal" or the puck happened to come to you in the slot so you bury it five hole. This team simply isn't doing all of the right things currently.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 10-26-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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Old
10-26-2011, 04:19 PM
  #50
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Guys "ugly goals" means goals scored in the low slot or rebounds, ugly goals are about 90% of the goals scored in the league, usually off second chances which our team gets very few of...

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