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Old
10-26-2011, 04:37 PM
  #51
gopreds19
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
woof

The point is unless you have a ringside seat in Poile's office we don't know what he tried to do. We don't know the calls that were made and we don't know what the response from those calls may have been. I don't claim to know specifics but I do know that he didn't just sit at his desk playing Angry Birds on his phone. The Weber negotiations tied his hands to a certain extent, if that could have been worked out things may have been different.
The results speak for themselves. Trying doesn't count.

If Weber was tying his hands, then he should have traded him to acquire an asset of equal value and then moved on to Suter/Rinne.

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10-26-2011, 05:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Guys "ugly goals" means goals scored in the low slot or rebounds, ugly goals are about 90% of the goals scored in the league, usually off second chances which our team gets very few of...
Agreed. Even if a defenseman scored a goal from a heavy shot from the blueline it's an "ugly goal" if the basis for deeming it "ugly" is that it was "lucky". Ugly goals are the bread and butter of every team. It just helps dramatically to have skilled guys who raise the chances of scoring a pretty goal here and there.

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10-26-2011, 05:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Guys "ugly goals" means goals scored in the low slot or rebounds, ugly goals are about 90% of the goals scored in the league, usually off second chances which our team gets very few of...
While I agree there are plenty of "lucky goals" scored where a bounce goes your way, 90% is not accurate. If that was the case, Matt Halishuk, who works hard in the low slot, would have 10% less goals than Alex Ovechkin...

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10-26-2011, 07:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Guys "ugly goals" means goals scored in the low slot or rebounds, ugly goals are about 90% of the goals scored in the league, usually off second chances which our team gets very few of...
What you describe isn't a ugly goal. Bergfors in Calgary is the definition of an ugly goal. Legwand's first goal in Stl was an ugly goal

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Old
10-26-2011, 07:29 PM
  #55
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Ugly goals are goals.

We aren't scoring goals regardless. Unless this team comes out with some fire and plays with some stones, it's gonna be a long season.

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10-26-2011, 07:40 PM
  #56
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it's only for entertainment, no need to get so caught up in it
well you see here is the rub for me, this team isn't in the least bit entertaining. I can handle them being outskilled, but these games are boring me to sleep.

I'm disappointed as well. We did all of the things as a franchise and fan base that should have lead to exciting new things, instead they led to Bergfors and one more year of Shea Weber, who is playing rather uninspired hockey by the way.

Watching this team muck the game down to a screeching halt and hoping for a random bounce off the butt goal and perfect goaltending win is mind numbing for me right now.

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10-26-2011, 07:56 PM
  #57
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Poile went into the offseason wanting a top 6 forward. Then when free agency hit of course we weren't in the running; yeah we get it everyone is overpaid those days. Then he talked up getting a guy after training camp. So far it hasn't happened. Almost everyone on here defended the Franson/Lombardi trade by saying that Poile had something brewing to use that salary. Still no move (yet of course).

He then preceded to oversell our players, specifically Spaling, Halischuk and company. Our fabled young defensive gems were of course not ready.

Teams which go to the Western Conference Semi-Finals don't have offseasons like we had. This is not building. We lost too many roster players and expected too much from our current crop to replace what we lost (let alone improve our weakness last year: offense). I understand our financial constraints but if that is the case then just say it ; don't try to act like we made the moves we did to improve our team because it hasn't yet.

And if David Poile couldn't make other moves because of the Weber situation then he needs to be fired because other GMs are able to make moves all the time while dealing with issues. See the LA Kings or Brian Burke.

I'll always be a Predators fan no matter what and I'll keep paying money, but this team is not fun to watch and is terribly frustrating, especially considering that we have 3 elite players on the backend and we're going to waste that away. Our chance to win was with the big three on cheaper contracts. Now we see what happens when even one signs, much less all three.

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Old
10-26-2011, 08:07 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Poile went into the offseason wanting a top 6 forward. Then when free agency hit of course we weren't in the running; yeah we get it everyone is overpaid those days. Then he talked up getting a guy after training camp. So far it hasn't happened. Almost everyone on here defended the Franson/Lombardi trade by saying that Poile had something brewing to use that salary. Still no move (yet of course).

He then preceded to oversell our players, specifically Spaling, Halischuk and company. Our fabled young defensive gems were of course not ready.

Teams which go to the Western Conference Semi-Finals don't have offseasons like we had. This is not building. We lost too many roster players and expected too much from our current crop to replace what we lost (let alone improve our weakness last year: offense). I understand our financial constraints but if that is the case then just say it ; don't try to act like we made the moves we did to improve our team because it hasn't yet.

And if David Poile couldn't make other moves because of the Weber situation then he needs to be fired because other GMs are able to make moves all the time while dealing with issues. See the LA Kings or Brian Burke.

I'll always be a Predators fan no matter what and I'll keep paying money, but this team is not fun to watch and is terribly frustrating, especially considering that we have 3 elite players on the backend and we're going to waste that away. Our chance to win was with the big three on cheaper contracts. Now we see what happens when even one signs, much less all three.
The Kings and Leafs have bigger budgets so to compare them to us in unfair. But for the most part you are correct. The fact that we didn't get anything is the concern and that we don't attempt to play real hockey instead of play not to loose with defensive hockey. Trotz likes what we have and he doesn't want a big time scorer. He wishes all the players were like Smithson and Spauling. One thing I think the way Blum played last year give the impression that all of our prospects could do what Blum did but we found out it's doesn't work like that.

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Old
10-26-2011, 08:09 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Legwand has one EN goal & one flubber goal. He has one primary assist. He's a placeholder on a scoring-line and shouldn't be counted on to create or capitalize on offense. You will have scoring problems if you count on him in that role.

It's not negativity, it's reality.
Legwand has three primary assists, if you're going to bash the guy at every turn, at least get your facts right.

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10-26-2011, 09:21 PM
  #60
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I'm usually a Poile supporter and I would generally agree with this but at a certain point someone has to be held accountable for the complete regression of the team after last year's high. I also don't have a ton of faith that Poile was too desperate to add pieces because of how quickly we got rid of important players, especially a player like Ward who wasn't exactly going to make Shea Weber money.

There were SOME players available this offseason. I mean hell look at Florida. They added Tomas Fleischmann, Scottie Upshall, Marcel Goc (oops), and even got Tomas Kopecky in a trade for only a 7th round pick. Just an example. If we were already in salary-shredding mode after last season I don't understand why. I mean yeah, we needed to re-sign Weber but if we have to dump the salaries of our good players just to bring back one of the three then we have some serious problems.

The fact that Trotz has made a living getting more out of less, and we're still struggling mightily kinda worries me, and I don't think anyone could dispute that.
Really? You brought Ward as an important player. The only thing Ward could do is play the boards. He could barely pass or accept a pass or keep the puck on his stick for more than 1/2 a second. How he had the playoffs he had I'll never know.

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Old
10-26-2011, 09:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jcupp View Post
Really? You brought Ward as an important player. The only thing Ward could do is play the boards. He could barely pass or accept a pass or keep the puck on his stick for more than 1/2 a second. How he had the playoffs he had I'll never know.
Useful or not, we could use Ward right now.

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10-26-2011, 09:39 PM
  #62
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I have to agree with you on that because we can't win any battles right now.

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Old
10-26-2011, 10:34 PM
  #63
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Ward could definitely battle along the boards, but I don't see what one player winning corner battles would make this team any better. He would still (likely) be on a line that would not generate much offense, and if he were put in a top six role there would be questions about Trotz's sanity just like last season.

Besides, is that really worth $3m a year?

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Old
10-27-2011, 12:18 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Ward could definitely battle along the boards, but I don't see what one player winning corner battles would make this team any better. He would still (likely) be on a line that would not generate much offense, and if he were put in a top six role there would be questions about Trotz's sanity just like last season.

Besides, is that really worth $3m a year?
he did more than win board battles. he was a vet. he was one of those guys who could settle a young guy down. he isn't worth 3 million, no, not in terms of production. is he worth 3 million in stability? maybe, maybe not

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10-27-2011, 12:28 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by jcupp View Post
Really? You brought Ward as an important player. The only thing Ward could do is play the boards. He could barely pass or accept a pass or keep the puck on his stick for more than 1/2 a second. How he had the playoffs he had I'll never know.
Ward won battles and was able to get the puck on net in useful situations. Sounds like almost no one on the team right now.

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:37 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
The results speak for themselves. Trying doesn't count.

If Weber was tying his hands, then he should have traded him to acquire an asset of equal value and then moved on to Suter/Rinne.
Trading Weber doesn't make any sense. You get rid of the most valuable player on the team for what? Unless your picking up Stamkos or OV you'd be taking a step back.
While I wanted to so something to improve the team, I'm glad he didn't do anything stupid to make the team weaker. Sully isn't doing much of anything in Pittsburgh, Dumont is still hanging around AGame, Goc, Ward etc are all doing about the same as they have been. I don't see this team being better with them.

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10-27-2011, 09:20 AM
  #67
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Agreed. Even if a defenseman scored a goal from a heavy shot from the blueline it's an "ugly goal" if the basis for deeming it "ugly" is that it was "lucky". Ugly goals are the bread and butter of every team. It just helps dramatically to have skilled guys who raise the chances of scoring a pretty goal here and there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
While I agree there are plenty of "lucky goals" scored where a bounce goes your way, 90% is not accurate. If that was the case, Matt Halishuk, who works hard in the low slot, would have 10% less goals than Alex Ovechkin...
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What you describe isn't a ugly goal. Bergfors in Calgary is the definition of an ugly goal. Legwand's first goal in Stl was an ugly goal
No what I've always been told is the term "ugly goals" or "garbage goals" are goals that are scored in the toughest areas of the ice "where angels fear to tread". Ugly goals can be scored by anyone and the best goal scorers know how to finish off better than grinders. One of my best friends is a great goal scorer because he dominates the low slot, get him the puck down low and he can go to work, it doesn't mean he can't dangle, he can with the best of them but he scores mostly by taking out the trash.

Ugly goals does not = Lucky goals, it means the goals scored in the low slot area, redirections, deflections and rebounds.

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Old
10-27-2011, 09:37 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Trading Weber doesn't make any sense. You get rid of the most valuable player on the team for what? Unless your picking up Stamkos or OV you'd be taking a step back.
While I wanted to so something to improve the team, I'm glad he didn't do anything stupid to make the team weaker. Sully isn't doing much of anything in Pittsburgh, Dumont is still hanging around AGame, Goc, Ward etc are all doing about the same as they have been. I don't see this team being better with them.
Dumont has signed with SC Bern in Switzerland.

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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
No what I've always been told is the term "ugly goals" or "garbage goals" are goals that are scored in the toughest areas of the ice "where angels fear to tread". Ugly goals can be scored by anyone and the best goal scorers know how to finish off better than grinders. One of my best friends is a great goal scorer because he dominates the low slot, get him the puck down low and he can go to work, it doesn't mean he can't dangle, he can with the best of them but he scores mostly by taking out the trash.

Ugly goals does not = Lucky goals, it means the goals scored in the low slot area, redirections, deflections and rebounds.
Perhaps I worded my response poorly. I was in agreement with you. What I meant when I mentioned lucky goals was how a few seemed to be defining them as "lucky". If all "lucky" goals are garbage goals then even shots from the point that find their way through traffic and into twine are "garbage" or "dirty". My definition of an ugly goal is a goal is similar to yours. A goal scored through hard work, either muscling your way into a good position in the slot (or in front of the crease) or simply not giving up on the play, finding a rebound, and burying it. That is how a large majority of all goals are scored.

Truly "lucky" goals are goals like Lidstrom scored against Nashville in the 08 play offs. Slapper from center ice that hits a rut in the ice, and then bounces over the shoulder of the goalie. Those goals that simply aren't intended to be anything but a puck put in deep. Another example is Ward behind the net in the 8-0 game against Detroit. Or the game against Vancouver in the recent play offs when Legwand was simply trying to put the puck over the net and in front, but it is batted in with the hand of a Vancouver defenseman. Those are times when you aren't necessary trying to score, but you do anyway because the puck takes a strange bounce.

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Old
10-27-2011, 10:30 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Dumont has signed with SC Bern in Switzerland.
Must have been recent, I saw him about 2 weeks ago at AGame. Good for him, at least he'll be playing. I know he wasn't ready to hang them up.

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10-27-2011, 10:35 AM
  #70
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As a coach I could not care less how the goal was scored. Lucky, garbage or a thing of hockey perfection they all count the same on the scoreboard. Thing is some players have a feel for where to be to get that garbage or lucky goal. Old school guys may remember watching Phil Esposito, he made a very nice career for himself cleaning up the garbage. Goal of the chest, the butt, the elbow whatever may be "lucky" but the player had to be in position to get lucky.

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10-27-2011, 10:41 AM
  #71
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Must have been recent, I saw him about 2 weeks ago at AGame. Good for him, at least he'll be playing. I know he wasn't ready to hang them up.
Very recent. The deal became official on Tuesday, and he left for Switzerland yesterday.

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10-27-2011, 10:51 AM
  #72
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As a coach I could not care less how the goal was scored. Lucky, garbage or a thing of hockey perfection they all count the same on the scoreboard. Thing is some players have a feel for where to be to get that garbage or lucky goal. Old school guys may remember watching Phil Esposito, he made a very nice career for himself cleaning up the garbage. Goal of the chest, the butt, the elbow whatever may be "lucky" but the player had to be in position to get lucky.
Somebody should show the boys video of the old "Tripod" ... we could use it now.

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10-27-2011, 10:57 AM
  #73
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No what I've always been told is the term "ugly goals" or "garbage goals" are goals that are scored in the toughest areas of the ice "where angels fear to tread". Ugly goals can be scored by anyone and the best goal scorers know how to finish off better than grinders. One of my best friends is a great goal scorer because he dominates the low slot, get him the puck down low and he can go to work, it doesn't mean he can't dangle, he can with the best of them but he scores mostly by taking out the trash.

Ugly goals does not = Lucky goals, it means the goals scored in the low slot area, redirections, deflections and rebounds.
I stand corrected you are right! We need any kind of goals

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10-27-2011, 11:01 AM
  #74
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Somebody should show the boys video of the old "Tripod" ... we could use it now.
Let's do a "Clockwork Orange" on Hornqvist and Tootoo. Strap them down and barrage them with video of Holmstrom, Tkachuk and LeClair.

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10-27-2011, 11:33 AM
  #75
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Let's do a "Clockwork Orange" on Hornqvist and Tootoo. Strap them down and barrage them with video of Holmstrom, Tkachuk and LeClair.
My favorite of all time....

Dino Ciccarelli.

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