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RD Dylan McIlrath (2010, 10th overall, Rangers)

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Old
10-26-2011, 04:04 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Except Schenns lateral movement is far supperior. Rangers would be fortunate if he turns into a good 4th dman.
Well I would hope so considering Schenn is 3 years older then Dylan and is starting his 4 NHL season...unfortunately Schenn hasn't made that much progress in his time in the NHL

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10-26-2011, 04:16 AM
  #702
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Well I would hope so considering Schenn is 3 years older then Dylan and is starting his 4 NHL season...unfortunately Schenn hasn't made that much progress in his time in the NHL
Schenn is still a kid for F sakes and yeah, he's made some pretty nice progress. Did you see him last season? How many 20/21 year olds are at the top in blocked shots, checking etc? Potential to be better than Luke is pushing it at this point.

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10-26-2011, 09:47 AM
  #703
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Kid is not gonna be like Schenn if he reaches his potential. his potential will be a #2 dman who intimidates the heck out of the opposition with his physical play. I can't really pinpoint a current NHL player who is like that. I would say Chris Pronger WITHOUT the offense. Perhaps a less talented Scott Stevens (post 1995 without offense). You could even go with a more talented Ken Daneyko or perhaps Jeff Beukaboom.

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10-26-2011, 09:51 AM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Granted I haven't seen him much, but his lateral movement look to be a real problem to me. In the few times I saw him he seems to get caught flat footed frequently and does have the skating ability to make up for it.

His skating kind of reminded me D. Hatcher after the knee problem.
Huh? His skating is actually one of his better attributes. Especially for a guy his size and with his toughness level. He looked VERY solid skating against NHLers, even. No idea why anyone would **** on his skating.

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10-26-2011, 11:14 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Huh? His skating is actually one of his better attributes. Especially for a guy his size and with his toughness level. He looked VERY solid skating against NHLers, even. No idea why anyone would **** on his skating.
I don't know what you are seeing...And I'm not just saying this to draw a reaction but from what I saw in camp I would honestly classify him as a terrible skater.

His straight up and down speed and skating is fine...

His lateral movement is so bad I believe it could be a problem for him. Be honest Jonathan...How many times did you see him coned in preseason? It wasn't because of bad reads or position he can't move side to side. And when he turns he looks like he is doing it mud. Good skaters all through camp skated around him without much of a problem...when he kept the play infront of him he was ok.

He better learn superior positioning because his foot work is simply bad.

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10-26-2011, 11:17 AM
  #706
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does his game translate well to an NHL with no fighting or hitting?

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10-26-2011, 12:28 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
What exactly is McIlraths potential then? Pronger? how likely is he to reach it?(IMO his upside is nowhere near that level)
I've never been any good at projecting where a player will wind up. I'll leave that to other folks. To me it's all about the total package. Here is what I know:

MacIlrath did not get serious about hockey until he was well into his teens. That's just a few years of serious commitment. Despite that he's playing a pretty solid game right now. He's got a lot of what you want in a good prospect, solid skater and not just for a big guy. He's smart and mentally tough. High level of competitiveness and willingness to work. He has things you can't teach. A good frame, size and natural strength. He's physically and mentally intimidating, and has a willingness to defend and protect team mates.

He's got a nasty streak, which every one knows, but he's smart about it. Measured. Still, his fighting is not overly impressive to me. I've seen more devastating fighters and there will always be a bigger, badder guy. MacIlrath has a beat down or three ahead of him. That's all but certain in the NHL. Shea Weber big and tough as he is, got his clock cleaned by Travis Moen.

If you took any of the Rangers top four defense man, Staal, Girardi, McDonagh or Sauer and dropped MacIlrath's potential into any of them, you would have a very valuable asset to your team. A player like that would be a critical factor in winning a tough play off series. Certainly it's a factor the Rangers need and have not had in a long time. The Rangers D corps can perform at a very high level, but on the intimidation scale they are very low.

So to the extent that I'll predict.....some where in there. That's what I'm hoping for any way and think is very possible.

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10-26-2011, 12:33 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I don't know what you are seeing...And I'm not just saying this to draw a reaction but from what I saw in camp I would honestly classify him as a terrible skater.

His straight up and down speed and skating is fine...

His lateral movement is so bad I believe it could be a problem for him. Be honest Jonathan...How many times did you see him coned in preseason? It wasn't because of bad reads or position he can't move side to side. And when he turns he looks like he is doing it mud. Good skaters all through camp skated around him without much of a problem...when he kept the play infront of him he was ok.

He better learn superior positioning because his foot work is simply bad.
For what it's worth, I remember Gordie Clark commenting post draft about Mac's foot work. He was impressed. He has a reputation for being honest and knowing his stuff.

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10-26-2011, 12:36 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
His lateral movement is so bad I believe it could be a problem for him. Be honest Jonathan...How many times did you see him coned in preseason? It wasn't because of bad reads or position he can't move side to side. And when he turns he looks like he is doing it mud. Good skaters all through camp skated around him without much of a problem...when he kept the play infront of him he was ok.

He better learn superior positioning because his foot work is simply bad.
That's simply not true. Don't know what more to say here.

I guess our scouts who say his skating is very solid, our fans who say it's solid, etc. are all missing what you are.

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10-26-2011, 12:38 PM
  #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
For what it's worth, I remember Gordie Clark commenting post draft about Mac's foot work. He was impressed. He has a reputation for being honest and knowing his stuff.
His skating (straight and lateral) is very solid for a big man. Clark, who you are right in calling very honest, is equally impressed.

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10-26-2011, 12:54 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
That's simply not true. Don't know what more to say here.

I guess our scouts who say his skating is very solid, our fans who say it's solid, etc. are all missing what you are.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find any video of actual play on Youtube of Traverse City or the Preseason games. I've been looking since my orginal post...

I can recall muliple times when players skated around him...I will try and find some of the video and post it when I do.

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10-26-2011, 12:58 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
His skating (straight and lateral) is very solid for a big man. Clark, who you are right in calling very honest, is equally impressed.
Yeah and I remember Clark being asked about it in some depth. He said that MacIlrath had told him that playing a lot of volley ball had really helped him develop foot work and lateral moment. I've also heard MacIlrath say that his skating is something he works on constantly for improvement. The guy will get better. He works hard enough for that to happen.

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10-26-2011, 03:16 PM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Unfortunately I can't seem to find any video of actual play on Youtube of Traverse City or the Preseason games. I've been looking since my orginal post...

I can recall muliple times when players skated around him...I will try and find some of the video and post it when I do.
Perhaps at Traverse. He was apparently mediocre there according to everyone. I didn't see it. But I don't care. Because I saw him play against NHLers. If he was a 20 year old, he'd be on the team right now.

If he had "multiple times when players skated around him", he'd of been sent back when Thomas was. He never had any real trouble against anyone in the pre-season. To say he had "players [skating] around him" left and right in pre-season is laughable at best. Perhaps you should watch harder next time, Jim.

I saw every game he played in pre-season that was televised. He never looked out of place against actual NHL players. His lateral skating is very solid. I've never seen him have any real trouble closing the gap against an opposing forward. Combine that with his massive reach, and added development time? He's going to be nearly impossible to play against in his own zone.

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10-26-2011, 07:04 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
As someone on the Rangers board said: If both players reach their potential, most people would want MacIlrath on their team. Good take imo. I like Fowler as a player. I think he'll continue to be an asset. I'm just glad they finally drafted a player like MacIlrath.

If he got to the point where he played D as well as Mike Sauer did last year, I'd be very happy.
I'd be curious what the Ranger fans felt was McIlrath's potential, and what they felt was Fowler's potential. Somehow I doubt they were entirely objective about both players. In their shoes, I know I probably wouldn't be.

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10-26-2011, 07:12 PM
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Perhaps at Traverse. He was apparently mediocre there according to everyone. I didn't see it. But I don't care. Because I saw him play against NHLers. If he was a 20 year old, he'd be on the team right now.

If he had "multiple times when players skated around him", he'd of been sent back when Thomas was. He never had any real trouble against anyone in the pre-season. To say he had "players [skating] around him" left and right in pre-season is laughable at best. Perhaps you should watch harder next time, Jim.

I saw every game he played in pre-season that was televised. He never looked out of place against actual NHL players. His lateral skating is very solid. I've never seen him have any real trouble closing the gap against an opposing forward. Combine that with his massive reach, and added development time? He's going to be nearly impossible to play against in his own zone.
He was okay at Traverse, from what I saw. He didn't look out of place, and I thought he showed good potential on the defensive side of the game. I wouldn't say he stood out in a big way. You could easily miss him out there on the ice, which isn't necessarily a bad thing for a defenseman, but I also don't think he asserted himself physically as well as he could have. On the other hand, he also wasn't constantly taking himself out of position -to- assert himself.

I wouldn't put too much weight in it, anymore than I would regarding his pre-season performance. It's not the regular season. What matters is how he plays when the NHL season begins, and he'll have his opportunity to show what he can do eventually.

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10-26-2011, 07:29 PM
  #716
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He was okay at Traverse, from what I saw. He didn't look out of place, and I thought he showed good potential on the defensive side of the game. I wouldn't say he stood out in a big way. You could easily miss him out there on the ice, which isn't necessarily a bad thing for a defenseman, but I also don't think he asserted himself physically as well as he could have. On the other hand, he also wasn't constantly taking himself out of position -to- assert himself.

I wouldn't put too much weight in it, anymore than I would regarding his pre-season performance. It's not the regular season. What matters is how he plays when the NHL season begins, and he'll have his opportunity to show what he can do eventually.
FWIW, I watched him (on streaming) at Traverse city and in pre-season. His play between the two was like night and day. I was pretty disappointed with his game at Traverse but pre-season he completely turned it around. I don't know if it was nerves or what, but he played much better in pre-season. He even made the trip to Europe and was one of the last few cuts made to our defense. Not that he would have made the team anyway, but he certainly earned his plane ticket.

That being said, it's difficult to draw any sort of conclusion based on Traverse city and pre-season. In one he played bad and in the other he played well. Obviously, my hope is that he continues to build off what he did in pre-season.

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10-26-2011, 07:59 PM
  #717
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I'd be curious what the Ranger fans felt was McIlrath's potential, and what they felt was Fowler's potential. Somehow I doubt they were entirely objective about both players. In their shoes, I know I probably wouldn't be.
I was actually the one who made the comment he was referring to, and while I should have qualified it as "most Rangers fans", I still stand by it. I see Fowler's upside as a guy who can be in the 45-55 point range, but who lacks the physicality and elite defensive awareness to be a true #1 d-man. I think his skating will ease the impact of many mistakes he might make, but his ability to read the play as it approaches him is nowhere near as good as his ability to read the play going the other way. Sergei Gonchar comes to mind.

McIlrath has the nasty streak that fans, and more importantly teammates, love to see on the ice. While I'm a major opponent of your prototypical goon, I'm very quickly becoming a vocal advocate for the kid and the development he's shown. He's at that point where his body is only starting to catch up to what his head wants to do, and you see some glimpses of potential there. Realistically, I see him as a potential Brooks Orpik. A guy that keeps it simple, but can amp up the physical game and really change the momentum for his team. If he can polish his offensive game, I think he could hit 35 points a couple times in his career, but I think the folks who hope he can be the next Shea Weber should temper their expectations.

What I think we can appreciate about both prospects is that each is good enough in one area of the game that they will almost certainly be decent NHL blue liners in one way or another.

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10-26-2011, 08:55 PM
  #718
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I'd be curious what the Ranger fans felt was McIlrath's potential, and what they felt was Fowler's potential. Somehow I doubt they were entirely objective about both players. In their shoes, I know I probably wouldn't be.
Your right. There is a lot of polarization and obsession about the pick. Some of us have come around and well....let's just say some have not.

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10-26-2011, 09:04 PM
  #719
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I've come around to the pick. I was never really AGAINST it. I was just really confused when they said McIlrath. It was like this:

Awwwww yeah the Rangers are gonna get Fowler or Gormley or maybe they will pick Tarasenko or something. Here comes Clark. (Rangers are proud to select from Moose Jaw) Howden? I don- (Dylan McIlrath) WHAT? WHO?

It was pretty much something like that. I didn't even know who he was, I just remembered him jokingly saying he would easily crack the top 10 or something in some TSN predraft interview. It was tough to warm up to the pick in the beginning, but watching him beat everyone up helps. I loved him at training camp, I'd say he wasn't that far off from making the team. He should make a real good run next camp, but I reasonably I'd say he needs a season in the AHL.

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10-26-2011, 09:07 PM
  #720
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I have never seen Fowler compared to Gonchar til that post, and when watching him this year, I have to question if you have watched him play, when attacking his defensive ability. To me it sounds like your sticking to pre-draft notions about him his defensive play has been pretty good, in the couple games of his, I watched and never ever thought to myself he looked like Gonchar.

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10-27-2011, 02:15 AM
  #721
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I was actually the one who made the comment he was referring to, and while I should have qualified it as "most Rangers fans", I still stand by it. I see Fowler's upside as a guy who can be in the 45-55 point range, but who lacks the physicality and elite defensive awareness to be a true #1 d-man. I think his skating will ease the impact of many mistakes he might make, but his ability to read the play as it approaches him is nowhere near as good as his ability to read the play going the other way. Sergei Gonchar comes to mind.

McIlrath has the nasty streak that fans, and more importantly teammates, love to see on the ice. While I'm a major opponent of your prototypical goon, I'm very quickly becoming a vocal advocate for the kid and the development he's shown. He's at that point where his body is only starting to catch up to what his head wants to do, and you see some glimpses of potential there. Realistically, I see him as a potential Brooks Orpik. A guy that keeps it simple, but can amp up the physical game and really change the momentum for his team. If he can polish his offensive game, I think he could hit 35 points a couple times in his career, but I think the folks who hope he can be the next Shea Weber should temper their expectations.

What I think we can appreciate about both prospects is that each is good enough in one area of the game that they will almost certainly be decent NHL blue liners in one way or another.
Fair enough. I can't say that I agree with where you place Fowler's upside, but that might just be a difference of opinion. To be fair, if I were looking just at least season I could understand that projection entirely. Based on what I've seen so far this season, however, I'd say his upside could definitely be a potential #1 defenseman. The improvement he's shown so far this season is rather substantial, particularly in the defensive end. Every player develops at their own rate, but it seems likely that he would continue to improve for some time, and he's already showing some of the high intelligence plays that we both agree help define the true #1's in their own end. As it is, I'd say he's been Anaheim's best, and most consistent overall defenseman. Obviously, he still has work to do before he can be called a true #1, but I do think it's within the realm of possibility for him, without needing too much wishful thinking. Much of this is contingent on whether he can maintain this play over the course of the season, and beyond. Consistency is the real key.

Based on those two projections, I can definitely see an argument for why McIlrath would be the preferred player among most Ranger fans. Based on what I've seen of McIlath, and seeing plenty of room for growth in his game, he's a player I'd very much like to see in Anaheim. If he can hit his potential, he'd be a stabilizing force on the blue line. An anchor. But a mean one. If he can consistently put up decent offensive numbers, that's icing on the cake for him.

I just really can't picture choosing him over Fowler, if given the choice. Give me a pick of one or the other, and Fowler is a no-brainer for me. Some of that is definitely hindsight. Who expected Fowler to jump into the NHL so quickly? Or to be so important to Anaheim in such a short span of time? I know the Rangers already had MDZ, but I'm a big believer in drafting BPA in the 1st round. I've seen cases where drafting based on need can come back and bite you in the ass. Of course, the same can be said for drafting the best player available. I don't think McIlrath will end up being as good as Fowler, or as much an impact player, but maybe he ends up being the right pick for the Rangers.

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10-27-2011, 04:06 AM
  #722
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Sojourn you're being to nice, the Gonchar comparison for Fowler is ridiculous the kid reminds me of Scott Nieds or Brian Leetch. I like McIlrath, to be a 2nd pairing D, but for people to sit here and say he can be as valuable as Fowler, to me is just ridiculous and/or pure homerism. Fowler has a chance to win a Norris in his career, that is unlikely for Big Mac, IMO.

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10-27-2011, 07:21 AM
  #723
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I'd be curious what the Ranger fans felt was McIlrath's potential, and what they felt was Fowler's potential. Somehow I doubt they were entirely objective about both players. In their shoes, I know I probably wouldn't be.
It was a great post on the Ranger board. However, the only issue that I have is that Fowler is clearly a much more advanced player with a REALISTIC chance of reaching his top potential as a #1 defenseman in the NHL. He is already doing quite well in the NHL and there are serious signs that he can reach the #1 defenseman status.

Mcilrath is a serious long term project who is in juniors trying to develop his game other than fighting. He is a LONG way away and is not even close to the potential that was suggested on the board.

There is more of a chance that Mcilrath wont reach his potential than Fowler wont reach his potential

With that said, I can see why Gordie Clark made the pick. Mcilrath has the potential to be physical force in which ALL teams want. He can be a fan favorite and leader for the Blue shirts for a long time.

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10-27-2011, 07:47 AM
  #724
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I saw every game he played in pre-season that was televised. He never looked out of place against actual NHL players. His lateral skating is very solid. I've never seen him have any real trouble closing the gap against an opposing forward. Combine that with his massive reach, and added development time? He's going to be nearly impossible to play against in his own zone.
Eh, actually I agree with Jim in that McIlrath needs to improve his pivoting and stuff like that. He's still too slow when he needs to shift from skating backwards to forwards, but that's also something that's not totally unexpected from a real big guy who hasn't grown into his body yet

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10-27-2011, 08:01 AM
  #725
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Fair enough. I can't say that I agree with where you place Fowler's upside, but that might just be a difference of opinion. To be fair, if I were looking just at least season I could understand that projection entirely. Based on what I've seen so far this season, however, I'd say his upside could definitely be a potential #1 defenseman. The improvement he's shown so far this season is rather substantial, particularly in the defensive end. Every player develops at their own rate, but it seems likely that he would continue to improve for some time, and he's already showing some of the high intelligence plays that we both agree help define the true #1's in their own end. As it is, I'd say he's been Anaheim's best, and most consistent overall defenseman. Obviously, he still has work to do before he can be called a true #1, but I do think it's within the realm of possibility for him, without needing too much wishful thinking. Much of this is contingent on whether he can maintain this play over the course of the season, and beyond. Consistency is the real key.

Based on those two projections, I can definitely see an argument for why McIlrath would be the preferred player among most Ranger fans. Based on what I've seen of McIlath, and seeing plenty of room for growth in his game, he's a player I'd very much like to see in Anaheim. If he can hit his potential, he'd be a stabilizing force on the blue line. An anchor. But a mean one. If he can consistently put up decent offensive numbers, that's icing on the cake for him.

I just really can't picture choosing him over Fowler, if given the choice. Give me a pick of one or the other, and Fowler is a no-brainer for me. Some of that is definitely hindsight. Who expected Fowler to jump into the NHL so quickly? Or to be so important to Anaheim in such a short span of time? I know the Rangers already had MDZ, but I'm a big believer in drafting BPA in the 1st round. I've seen cases where drafting based on need can come back and bite you in the ass. Of course, the same can be said for drafting the best player available. I don't think McIlrath will end up being as good as Fowler, or as much an impact player, but maybe he ends up being the right pick for the Rangers.
You have to remember, going into that draft, Michael Del Zotto was coming off a very encouraging rookie season. He put up almost 40 points as an 18 year old rookie, and really looked confident. If he had been coming off a season similar to last year, the organization may have put more thought into picking Fowler.

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