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Matt Carle Appreciation Thread

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Old
10-27-2011, 09:52 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
Wasn't it you who once said Meszaros was a terrible move?

Carle was a terrible move?

For you, it seems if a player isn't Timonen or Pronger, they're unreliable.

Captain obvious award. Carle also makes half of what they make.

Find a mistake proof offensive "second pairing d-man" or a "reliable" offensive/puck-moving second pairing d-man - and you have a 1st pairing d-man, and one who'll be paid like it.

Seriously, some of you need to re-align your expectations.
Meszaros was a terrible move the moment before free agency opened with guys I would prefer to him readily available without having to give up a pick... And they didn't have to pay much more for em.

As far as Carle, that poster called him a #2, which he is not. He's a second pairing guy, and more of a #4 cuz he can't anchor a pairing. So, excellent use of a paper tiger there.

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10-27-2011, 09:53 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Explain please. Oh, and without the insults would be great. Thanks.
His unreliability and ineptitude are pretty self explanatory.

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10-27-2011, 09:54 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TheSpectrum View Post
I would like to enter this argument by saying that I am not a big Matt Carle fan. I like his offensive awareness with the puck and he is a very solid option at the point on the PP, but he is awfully sloppy and careless on the puck. Time and again he is mishandling pucks with his stick and throwing blind passes in his own zone. I understand everyone is prone to those mistakes from time to time but I find Carle making any more of those in comparison to players like Timonen and Pronger.

Last night again Toronto on the 2nd goal he was flat out steamrolled down the right boards which created the scoring chance. Positing and stick handling are two areas that Carle is not very solid at.
No he's not. He's terrible on the PP.

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10-27-2011, 10:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Carle is very solid positionally. And as far as handling the puck, he is very, very good. He'll make some mistakes like any defenseman does. He's is an outstanding outlet passer.
I donít understand how you can defend his positioning? Again last night he took a terrible angle on Coleís rush attempt. He made Erik Cole who is pushing 40, look like a speedy Ovechkin coming down the right boards and never came even close to bodying him off the play. Other people noticed the same play from last night. All he had to do was squeeze Cole down the right boards, not a difficult play to make.

I agree he can make good outlet passes but he is sloppy with the puck. I donít recall another Flyers defender having nearly as much difficulty settling the puck, not overskating the puck, making a strong pass with the puck instead of leaving a dead duck for someone to step in an intercept. Itís quite frustrating and it shows a lack of concentration IMO.

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10-27-2011, 10:20 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
His unreliability and ineptitude are pretty self explanatory.
Your usually a stats guy, this thread is littered with stats that contradict your opinion. Are the stats wrong? And for those that say +/- is a useless statistic, Carle was Hor-awful last night......not surprisingly, he was a -3. I agree that Carle has the odd terrible game, last night was the first night without his regular partner, he and Mes struggled. I suspect within a couple of games they will be solid.

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10-27-2011, 10:28 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Your usually a stats guy, this thread is littered with stats that contradict your opinion. Are the stats wrong? And for those that say +/- is a useless statistic, Carle was Hor-awful last night......not surprisingly, he was a -3. I agree that Carle has the odd terrible game, last night was the first night without his regular partner, he and Mes struggled. I suspect within a couple of games they will be solid.
Chris Pronger really is the key to Carles statistical quality. Remember the playoffs last year? Carle is a weak hockey player physically, making him overmatched against physical forwards, he makes poor decisions with the puck regularly (reflected in his turnover stats), he makes simply bizarre defensive decisions regularly, and has a putrid shot from the point (which is the primary reason he is borderline useless on the PP), etc.

Mez is another guy that has gotten terribly overrated, but he's better than Carle. Both he and Coburn are way too aggressive positionally on D with regularity... All of which is why Pronger and Timonen are so crucial to this team.

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10-27-2011, 04:16 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by TheSpectrum View Post
I donít understand how you can defend his positioning? Again last night he took a terrible angle on Coleís rush attempt. He made Erik Cole who is pushing 40, look like a speedy Ovechkin coming down the right boards and never came even close to bodying him off the play. Other people noticed the same play from last night. All he had to do was squeeze Cole down the right boards, not a difficult play to make.

I agree he can make good outlet passes but he is sloppy with the puck. I donít recall another Flyers defender having nearly as much difficulty settling the puck, not overskating the puck, making a strong pass with the puck instead of leaving a dead duck for someone to step in an intercept. Itís quite frustrating and it shows a lack of concentration IMO.
I don't have to defend his positioning. His play defends it. It's as if he's the only defenseman that makes a mistake. And when he does, as all defenseman do, it's see he's not good positionally. LOL You look at a player overall play game in and game out. And Carle is a very good player game in and game out. He on occasion, like any other player, has a bad game like last night.

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Chris Pronger really is the key to Carles statistical quality. Remember the playoffs last year? Carle is a weak hockey player physically, making him overmatched against physical forwards, he makes poor decisions with the puck regularly (reflected in his turnover stats), he makes simply bizarre defensive decisions regularly, and has a putrid shot from the point (which is the primary reason he is borderline useless on the PP), etc.

Mez is another guy that has gotten terribly overrated, but he's better than Carle. Both he and Coburn are way too aggressive positionally on D with regularity... All of which is why Pronger and Timonen are so crucial to this team.
Maybe you should take a look at Carle's stats from last year when Pronger was out. His stats were better without Pronger then they were with him. He isn't overmatched or he wouldn't play as much as he does. His decision making and reads on defense are solid the over whelming majority of time. And he's not useless on the PP. Everything you've said couldn't be more incorrect.

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10-27-2011, 04:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Your usually a stats guy, this thread is littered with stats that contradict your opinion. Are the stats wrong? And for those that say +/- is a useless statistic, Carle was Hor-awful last night......not surprisingly, he was a -3. I agree that Carle has the odd terrible game, last night was the first night without his regular partner, he and Mes struggled. I suspect within a couple of games they will be solid.
Umm the stats prove how he plays?

Go to behindthenet.ca or just look on the 2nd or 3rd page.

His play and stats both prove that he is an average #4 defender.

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10-27-2011, 04:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Maybe you should take a look at Carle's stats from last year when Pronger was out. His stats were better without Pronger then they were with him. He isn't overmatched or he wouldn't play as much as he does. His decision making and reads on defense are solid the over whelming majority of time. And he's not useless on the PP. Everything you've said couldn't be more incorrect.
Last night is simple, first game without your partner. It takes some time to adjust to a new partner. Also, Bryz did the D no favors with his poor puck control and the confusion he caused everytime he touched the puck last night. Carle is a very good player for this team, I will be very disappointed if he is not re-signed.

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10-27-2011, 04:34 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Umm the stats prove how he plays?

Go to behindthenet.ca or just look on the 2nd or 3rd page.

His play and stats both prove that he is an average #4 defender.


There was an article written this off season that was linked on here using the advanced stats from behindthenet for Carle from last Season. The stats suggested that Carle had an elite Season last year. Many blew the article off.


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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Last night is simple, first game without your partner. It takes some time to adjust to a new partner. Also, Bryz did the D no favors with his poor puck control and the confusion he caused everytime he touched the puck last night. Carle is a very good player for this team, I will be very disappointed if he is not re-signed.
I'm not going to make any excuses for Carle's play last night. He was poor and deserves criticism for it. But it happens to every player. The entire team was poor last night.

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10-27-2011, 04:36 PM
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Here is the article I was referring to.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...are-matt-carle

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10-27-2011, 04:56 PM
  #87
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It was probably blown off because while watching Carle and comparing him to actual elite defenseman, he didn't look anything close to elite. That tends to happen when a guy routinely gets embarrassed by opposing forwards as Carle was last year...sort of like he was in the Toronto game twice in a row.

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10-27-2011, 05:02 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It was probably blown off because while watching Carle and comparing him to actual elite defenseman, he didn't look anything close to elite. That tends to happen when a guy routinely gets embarrassed by opposing forwards as Carle was last year...sort of like he was in the Toronto game twice in a row.
You can make these statements all you want. Earlier you made a statement that he doesn't try to defend a player coming down the wing. You don't have to have an ounce of Hockey knowledge to know that it's BS. Why does a defenseman who doesn't try to defend a player, and get's routinely embarrassed by opposing forwards, continue to play, and play well over 20 minutes a night? So you either don't know what your looking at, or you have a clear bias? So which is it. Why would the Flyers continue to play him high minutes if that was the case. All you need is simple common sense to refute your statements. This is what you get from Carle bashers. You get fantasy.

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10-27-2011, 05:12 PM
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So to sum up the posts made today on Carle. He doesn't try to defend a player down the Wing, get's routinely embarrased by NHL forwards. Makes bad decisions with the puck and turns it over too much. Is poor positionally. Has a putrid shot and is useless on the PP. Makes horrendous defensive decisions.

My God are Laviolette and Holmgren blind? Because if all this is true, why is he even in the lineup? How is he even in the NHL?
Because players like the above don't play 20 plus minutes a night in the NHL. They're out of the game playing in a beer League. It's fricken hysterical to read that nonsense! LOL

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10-27-2011, 05:28 PM
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My God are Laviolette and Holmgren blind? Because if all this is true, why is he even in the lineup? How is he even in the NHL?
Because players like the above don't play 20 plus minutes a night in the NHL. They're out of the game playing in a beer League. It's fricken hysterical to read that nonsense! LOL
so how do you explain Lilja being in the lineup after his performance last nite ???

there wasnt even a glimmer of AHL level play out of him, yet there he was/is wearing NHL orange/black..

/sigh

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10-27-2011, 05:59 PM
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If Carle is so amazing on defense and never gets beaten, then why was he humiliated twice against Toronto? Why is there an established patter of similar play?

I remember when all the stats pointed to Carle being bad. I posted them, and they were dismissed...so it's fun to see you going on about how important stats are now. I remember giving loads of specific instances of his failings once you refused to accept statistics. You rejected those as well.


What criticism of Carle do you accept? The answer seems to be none at all. Reading your posts, one would think Carle is the new Orr.

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10-27-2011, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
There was an article written this off season that was linked on here using the advanced stats from behindthenet for Carle from last Season. The stats suggested that Carle had an elite Season last year. Many blew the article off.




I'm not going to make any excuses for Carle's play last night. He was poor and deserves criticism for it. But it happens to every player. The entire team was poor last night.
So far, according to the stats and watched games, Carle has been below average. Like honestly, there is nothing that can dismiss this...

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10-27-2011, 06:51 PM
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Carle is what he is. A good passer who can set up plays at ES, a liability on the PP, and generally subpar in his own end with a tendency to be awful at times.

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10-27-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
So far, according to the stats and watched games, Carle has been below average. Like honestly, there is nothing that can dismiss this...
So when the stats don't fit what you want like the article I posted, you dismiss it. That was based on a full Season. But you take a 9 game slice and that fits what you want. How convenient.

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Carle is what he is. A good passer who can set up plays at ES, a liability on the PP, and generally subpar in his own end with a tendency to be awful at times.
Complete and utter nonsense.

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10-27-2011, 07:58 PM
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^ yup, but you can't prove it with the STATS man, you can't which means im right.......................

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10-27-2011, 08:00 PM
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So when the stats don't fit what you want like the article I posted, you dismiss it. That was based on a full Season. But you take a 9 game slice and that fits what you want. How convenient.



Complete and utter nonsense.
What are Carle's weaknesses then?

According to you, he has none. You make him seem like he is the most complete hockey player in existence.

edit: wow, pot calling the kettle black with the stat dismissal.

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10-27-2011, 08:00 PM
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If Carle is so amazing on defense and never gets beaten, then why was he humiliated twice against Toronto? Why is there an established patter of similar play?

I remember when all the stats pointed to Carle being bad. I posted them, and they were dismissed...so it's fun to see you going on about how important stats are now. I remember giving loads of specific instances of his failings once you refused to accept statistics. You rejected those as well.


What criticism of Carle do you accept? The answer seems to be none at all. Reading your posts, one would think Carle is the new Orr.
Who said Carle never gets beaten? Every defenseman gets beaten. When did all the stats point to Carle being bad? LOL There is no established pattern. Carle was a +30 last year and led the NHL in plus games. That's the established pattern. Your pattern is fantasy. If you did read my posts you'll notice that I said that Carle had a poor game against Montreal. Maybe you need to review.

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10-27-2011, 08:02 PM
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My pattern is based on a few seasons of watching Carle, and is agreed with by many, many, many people.

However, you have that one article! Oh boy!

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10-27-2011, 08:03 PM
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putting him on ignore was the best move ever

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10-27-2011, 08:11 PM
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Carle ****ing sucks

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