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Did we have unrealistic expectations for Myers?

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10-26-2011, 03:01 PM
  #26
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Maybe it's a difference of perspective, maybe not, but when I see "one of the best Dman in the league" I think of 6-10 defenseman. Is that REALLY what people expect? If Myers turns out to be "one of the better Dman in the league", is that ok? Or is that unacceptable? The money argument is just an excuse IMO to pile on a player when he doesn't perform.

I agree that Myers is on his way to getting better and better, but he will plateau at some point. If his plateau is generally how good he was during his Calder year, and doesn't get much better, I'll be fine with it. High expectations breed high disappointment IMO.

If Myers does get better, it MAY take him 4 years. Unacceptable? Not in my book.
Thats basically the issue. Many posters want him to be the player he could be in 4years this season. But it generally doesn't work that way.

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10-26-2011, 03:05 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats basically the issue. Many posters want him to be the player he could be in 4years this season. But it generally doesn't work that way.
Yeah, and I think people can forget how young he is. Just as a reminder, he's 21. He'll be 22 this February. He's got time on his side.

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10-26-2011, 04:33 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
As a fan base, have we set the bar too high?

This isn't one of those "oh no the sky is falling" type threads. I do think he will live up to his contract over the length of it, but there are some real concerns. He does not look like the Norris Candidate we are all hoping he will become.

How many times during a game does he give the puck away on a stupid pass attempt or how many times does he just simply lose the puck for no apparent reason leading to a goal?

While he isn't doing as poorly as he was last season, he just hasn't been up to snuff. If I had to rate his play in our top 6, he'd probably only be above MAG and possibly Leopold right now.

So simple question, do you still believe he will be an "elite" defenseman? Or will he just end up a solid #1b/2.
If you expect a lot of Myers I think it is fair to do so. Consider his draft status, his rookie year and 2nd half last year and the contract extension given him. My expectation is that he becomes our franchise blueliner and is in the talks of Norris candidates at some point in his career

That being said, his career is young and he is too. I think they key is not that we expect too much of him, but we expect too much too soon. Give him time to settle in with Regehr and iron out kinks in his game and to develop a steady consistency in his game.

The first aspect of the game that popped out was his skating and offensive ability. To be honest that impression was so huge, I can't remember how good he was in his own end his rookie season. The 2nd year, a sophomore slump hit him early but he came storming back and improved his play, notably in his own end and elevated his physical play. Now that we've seen all 3 aspects of his game at one point or another, offense, defense and (intimidating) physicality we have this huge taste of what he could be for us.

I don't know how soon he will be able to put all three together in a package on a nightly basis but it sure would be nice to see that. If he did that at this age I think it would be incredibly remarkable and rare and that we'd have one of the biggest bargains in the league.

Personally I do see him as a franchise type d-man and a building block for our team. How soon he fulfills his potential (assuming he does) is another story...

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10-26-2011, 04:49 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
When your franchise defense man is playing the 2nd unit right point when he would be much better served playing the top unit left point, somebody is getting their snub on. Gragnani aint no Tyler Myers.
Keep on ignoring how difficult it can be for some guys to play on their off side.

During the cycle when the Sabres set up, it's not difficult for the power play to rotate so that Myers opens himself up for the one-timer. Break-ins, defending rushes the other way, and keeping the puck in on the backhand to attempt to get set up is a different story entirely. It should also be noted that Myers hasn't yet shown the ability to be a difference maker on the power play at this level. He has 6 power play over two full seasons - and yes, he has had plenty of opportunities on the top unit in those seasons. He doesn't make great decisions - getting shots blocked and being slow to move the puck when he doesn't pull the trigger. Putting him into an unfamiliar spot is not going to help any of that.

If/when Gragnani finds the pressbox, I fully expect Leopold to move onto the left point with (most likely) a forward playing the left point on the 2nd unit.

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10-26-2011, 05:14 PM
  #30
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Look at the year Drew Doughty had last season...Myers is fine and developing nicely. Add to him having another new partner and the learning curve that goes with that, not concerned in the least.

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10-26-2011, 05:42 PM
  #31
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I think you guys have to realize that it takes about 4-5 seasons before defensemen really put it all together, and most spend time in the AHL before that. That Myers has played this well into his 3rd season and did so skipping his final year of juniors, well, let's just say he's well ahead of the curve.

It's still a bit impossible to try and guess how good he can really be but it's way too early to think that earlier expectations of Myers becoming truly dominant were premature.

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10-26-2011, 06:14 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Keep on ignoring how difficult it can be for some guys to play on their off side.

During the cycle when the Sabres set up, it's not difficult for the power play to rotate so that Myers opens himself up for the one-timer. Break-ins, defending rushes the other way, and keeping the puck in on the backhand to attempt to get set up is a different story entirely. It should also be noted that Myers hasn't yet shown the ability to be a difference maker on the power play at this level. He has 6 power play over two full seasons - and yes, he has had plenty of opportunities on the top unit in those seasons. He doesn't make great decisions - getting shots blocked and being slow to move the puck when he doesn't pull the trigger. Putting him into an unfamiliar spot is not going to help any of that.

If/when Gragnani finds the pressbox, I fully expect Leopold to move onto the left point with (most likely) a forward playing the left point on the 2nd unit.
The only player struggling with playing sides is Gragnani. He CLEARLY prefers the right point. Myers has been awesome at the left point, Christ he's been on it for all of 30 seconds this season and he pee'd on two forwards. One too create a great scoring chance (got blocked, with a little more experience it gets through), and another too control the line and buy time.

Myers is like 22 or 23. I'm pretty sure the YOUNGER guy with MORE NHL experience will reveal a greater aptitude than Grags has, if given the chance full time for like 10+ games like grags is being given.

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10-26-2011, 06:24 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Maybe it's a difference of perspective, maybe not, but when I see "one of the best Dman in the league" I think of 6-10 defenseman. Is that REALLY what people expect? If Myers turns out to be "one of the better Dman in the league", is that ok? Or is that unacceptable? The money argument is just an excuse IMO to pile on a player when he doesn't perform.

I agree that Myers is on his way to getting better and better, but he will plateau at some point. If his plateau is generally how good he was during his Calder year, and doesn't get much better, I'll be fine with it. High expectations breed high disappointment IMO.

If Myers does get better, it MAY take him 4 years. Unacceptable? Not in my book.
I absolutely think Myers has the potential to be a top 10 defenseman in the league. Is it a disappointment if he doesn't reach that level? I don't think so, but I don't think it's a stretch to say he could reach that level some day.

With that said, he has a ton of tools that he seems to be refining (though as he refines one skills he seems to lose a different one) and he is only 21 and I expect that he will put it together eventually. He's shown the offensive ability, he's shown the shutdown ability, he's shown the nastiness; I'm just waiting for him to put it all together someday, and I think he will but it may not be for 3-4 years.

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10-26-2011, 07:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
The only player struggling with playing sides is Gragnani. He CLEARLY prefers the right point. Myers has been awesome at the left point, Christ he's been on it for all of 30 seconds this season and he pee'd on two forwards. One too create a great scoring chance (got blocked, with a little more experience it gets through), and another too control the line and buy time.

Myers is like 22 or 23. I'm pretty sure the YOUNGER guy with MORE NHL experience will reveal a greater aptitude than Grags has, if given the chance full time for like 10+ games like grags is being given.
You've got to be kidding me. Now you KNOW what Gragnani himself prefers to play. Are you a mind reader? .

Myers has not played the left point. He ended up there a couple times when he rotated to the top of the umbrella on the point, and both times he was forced to hold the line on his backhand, he gave it away and the puck was down ice within 5 seconds. I honestly have no clue what you're talking about when you say he "pee'd" on two forwards.

But considering your first post in a Myers thread was to piss and moan about 4 other guys (forwards no less) and complain that Myers is "getting snubbed" by not getting 1st PP time, I suppose I shouldn't really expect a whole lot of coherency. If anyone's getting snubbed for first PP time by Gragnani's presence - it's Leopold. Myers gets plenty of PP time in his natural position on the 2nd unit. Maybe he should produce there before he gets thrust onto his off-side to get more time.


Last edited by jflory81: 10-26-2011 at 07:44 PM.
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Old
10-26-2011, 08:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
I never understood all the hype about Myers, sure he's got sky high potential, but that's all it is. We haven't seen the Myers from the year he won his Calder. I'm sure he will turn it around, but we can only wait and see.
You just contradicted yourself. In addition to that, he won the calder and you dont understand the hype? huh??

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10-26-2011, 08:56 PM
  #36
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Regehr wasn't just brought in and placed with Myers to create a shut down D-pairing. He is also teaching Myers how to defend better.

Myers started off bad last year and isn't playing amazing but certainly not bad. I think Weber needs to get brought up so Myers can take over the PP.

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10-26-2011, 09:20 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
You just contradicted yourself. In addition to that, he won the calder and you dont understand the hype? huh??
I'm talking about how people are so quick to say he is going to be a dominant force in the league for years to come with multiple Norris nominations. We haven't seen ANYTHING remotely close to that. Obviously it takes a little longer for defensemen to become elite, but I was hoping this year he shows a little more consistency and make himself more of a force on the ice. He looks unsure of himself out there and looks just as bad as his first half last year. He's playing with Regehr for goodness sake, not Chris Butler. If it wasn't for Regehr, Myers would look terrible. The Calder trophy is nothing, best rookie yippee... By turning it around, I meant his awful play shouldn't continue and he should be back to playing at least with some consistency.

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10-26-2011, 10:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
You've got to be kidding me. Now you KNOW what Gragnani himself prefers to play. Are you a mind reader? .

Myers has not played the left point. He ended up there a couple times when he rotated to the top of the umbrella on the point, and both times he was forced to hold the line on his backhand, he gave it away and the puck was down ice within 5 seconds. I honestly have no clue what you're talking about when you say he "pee'd" on two forwards.

But considering your first post in a Myers thread was to piss and moan about 4 other guys (forwards no less) and complain that Myers is "getting snubbed" by not getting 1st PP time, I suppose I shouldn't really expect a whole lot of coherency. If anyone's getting snubbed for first PP time by Gragnani's presence - it's Leopold. Myers gets plenty of PP time in his natural position on the 2nd unit. Maybe he should produce there before he gets thrust onto his off-side to get more time.
Oh yeah hey I'm sorry I must have made all that up, Myers never made any nice plays from the left point and he's never even played on the left point for even a single second this season hahaha how silly of me thanks bro you're so awesomer!

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10-27-2011, 07:42 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
I'm talking about how people are so quick to say he is going to be a dominant force in the league for years to come with multiple Norris nominations. We haven't seen ANYTHING remotely close to that. Obviously it takes a little longer for defensemen to become elite, but I was hoping this year he shows a little more consistency and make himself more of a force on the ice. He looks unsure of himself out there and looks just as bad as his first half last year. He's playing with Regehr for goodness sake, not Chris Butler. If it wasn't for Regehr, Myers would look terrible. The Calder trophy is nothing, best rookie yippee... By turning it around, I meant his awful play shouldn't continue and he should be back to playing at least with some consistency.
Not so sure where you're seeing this "awful play" from Myers this season, unless you're referring to maybe 1 game or a handful of plays spread out across many games. Also his bad first half last season was really a bad first quarter, and it ended with a very good second half.

It's unfair to say that without Regehr Myers would look terrible because #1 you can't really know that and #2 he should be playing with a player near Regehr's calibre by rights anyhow. He certainly shouldn't have Chris Butler by his side.

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10-27-2011, 08:14 AM
  #40
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At the moment, Drew Doughty >>>>>>>>>> Tyler Myers (they have been compared to each other a lot).

We will see what he becomes. He has the tools to be an elite defenseman. He still has to work on his game and with Regehr as is mentor, I'm not too worried.

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10-27-2011, 08:31 AM
  #41
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Until he puts up paul coffey numbers im not satisfied

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10-27-2011, 09:03 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
At the moment, Drew Doughty >>>>>>>>>> Tyler Myers (they have been compared to each other a lot).

We will see what he becomes. He has the tools to be an elite defenseman. He still has to work on his game and with Regehr as is mentor, I'm not too worried.
I agree Doughty is better, but not ">>>>>>>>>>>>" better. Sure they have been compared to each other a lot, but there's a reason Doughty was #2 overall and Myers was #12 overall in that draft. Doughty had a down year last year, I'm fine with growing pains with Myers because there are certainly areas he is refining as he grows and I am confident he will put it all together at some point. And until then he's still a damn good defenseman.

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