HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Yannick Weber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-27-2011, 03:00 PM
  #51
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not defending him, I was curious to know what your arguments were for thinking that way. Very much like Breezer always was one of Natey's best Dmen (I'll never let that one go Natey! ).
I just completely disagree with your assessment. All three youngsters have done a commendable/good job. I don't think he's losing battles more often than others.
I can honestly say that I have a prejudice against him before he ever stepped on the ice. My reason, I believe that ideally you build a team from a template of characteristics, skill and salary.

For example (just for illustration's sake):

1st line
Power forward $3.5M - Playmaking Center 6'2" $5M - Sniper with wheels $6M

etc....

Ofcourse, youu cannot just pick players from a grocery store shelf (as someone once said) but you have to work towards your ideal. I believe that there are small players who can survive and thrive in the NHL, but they have to be "hockey strong". Guys like Bouillion and Gionta are good examples. These guys are exceptions to the rule. If you have one on your roster, you have to compensate, i.e. no more similar guys.

When a player comes around that Ibelieve does not fit the team requirement, hell yes I have a prejudice against him. Just as i had one for Plekanec when he made the roster. I thought he simply was not what they needed. But... as he played, I saw that he had serious value, and I changed my mind on him. I still did not think the Habs needed a center of his size considering who they had on teh roster at the time, and that they should have chosen which elements they wanted to keep and what they needed to have a well rounded roster.

Same for Weber.

It is not that I do not believe he can become a good player, it is that I really do not care about any player above the needs of the team. When you have Markov, Spacek, Subban, Diaz AND Weber.... I think that it is just not a good mix. Pick the ones you like best and make moves to get COMPLIMENTARY players.

So am I boased against him, yes. As biased as the guys who so want him tio suceed that they cannot admit when he loses battle after battle behind his net.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I respect your opinion, Joe. I do take issue with the above two points, however. Weber has played over 20 mins every game except the first two (where he was playing as a forward for some of the games). Despite those first two games skewing the statistics a fair bit, Weber has averaged to be third amongst Montreal defensemen in ice time per game. Exclude those first two games where he played as a forward for some of the time, and Weber's averaging more ice time than Gorges. All this while posting the best +/-.

If you say to look at how Martin is treating him as a reflection of how good he is, then I would argue that Martin's come around to respecting Weber's game. If you say he's only playing a ton of minutes against Florida, I say that while he played his season-high of just shy of 25mins against Florida, he's played 20+ against every other team as well.

Please note: I don't disagree that he is, at times, overmatched. I disagree that it is consistent, and disagree that it is more frequent than, say, Diaz. I also think the point that Weber gets some sheltered minutes is worth noting.
It's good that we can keep this civil.

The problem with stats is that you can use them however you like to support your opinion. They are not as definitive as we like to smetimes believe.

As for ice time... think of it this way, no wonder he gets ice time, Markov is out, Spacek is out... that leaves PK, Gill and Gorges as experienced guys. You have to pick our spots with Gill because of speed.

No wonder Weber gets 3rd highest minutes. Right?

As for consistently being over matched vs once in a while, well.... who is your opposition? Goin in the corner with Briere, or going in the corner with Evander Kane are two different things. If he holds his own against Briere, I am not going to be impressed. That is his job. But when he loses his battle with Kane, well... that is where it counts, no?

My 2 cents...that's all. I wish the Habs did not have so many small D, all at the same time. One guy like Weber is ok. 4 guys like Weber.... that is making a meal with one ingrediant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
still, the kid deserves props, he went from playing on the 4th line due to a poor camp to our steadiest D.
Props, or last man standing?

If you would draw up a roster without names, just talent/size/salary, then try to fit in names... would Weber fit in on that roster?


Last edited by Habsfan18: 10-27-2011 at 03:11 PM. Reason: merge
Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:12 PM
  #52
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 45,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Last night he played great, but we're talking broad generalities here rather than a singular performance.
Out of our 6 defenseman playing right now, he's 4th in ES minutes. Puts him as a Top-4 defenseman, especially when combining his minutes on the PP & PK.

He's third on the team (defense) in total minutes (20:17/game), behind only Subban & Gorges.

Weber is also averaging 2:08 minutes per game on the PK, which means he's still facing top-flight opposition at that point too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not defending him, I was curious to know what your arguments were for thinking that way. Very much like Breezer always was one of Natey's best Dmen (I'll never let that one go Natey! ).
I just completely disagree with your assessment. All three youngsters have done a commendable/good job. I don't think he's losing battles more often than others. He is holding his ground, is tenacious, has a good first pass, nice speed, is smart about his pinches, and despite his small size I've seen him respond to anybody trying to rush Price after the whistle.
His bread and butter is the PP, I've been wondering all season why Weber is not the go-to guy on the first PP unit since the start of the season. I never understood why he wasn't there. It's obvious to me that PK should be the QB on the right and Weber the shot on the left. Eventually I hope management goes with that.
Breezer was our best defenseman for many years. I never said that was a good thing. This day and age, whatever money he got back then ($4M?) would be the average price of a defenseman who brought what he brought.

In his return, I thought he played solidly most nights. I agree, he probably shouldn't have been a top-4 defenseman, but he was still a Top-6 guy and was solid enough.

But yeah, I know, we all have our favourites who aren't always the best players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
What about Campoli and Diaz ?


don't worry, I am sure we gonna loose one or two other d-men with long-term injuries down the road.
Or Markov never returns.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:21 PM
  #53
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Kremelim, Carey Price and Kriss E !!

My my, the Weberites were fast to defend him!

I do not have the games digitized and at my finger tips so that I can post the instances where he is over matched in his end. Seriously.... do you have all the games ready for that kind of documented proof? I have a career I am trying to maintain between posts on HF!

That said, yes, I believe he is over matched VERY often. More so than any other D on the current roster. Not that Martin's opinion is well thought of here but, the fact that Weber is scratched or used as a forward says it all.

Often, he either loses the battle straight out or is rushed into making a bad play and gets a team mate in a bad position where the team mate loses a battle. It has to do with game speed, balance and strength.


Obviously he is going to be compared to other Habs D. Diaz is the exception I suppose, he has transitionned to the North American game quickly. He makes a fast first pass and uses his speed to stay n position, even if he does not have the strength to compete at a purely physical level.

The next comparison is Emelin. Weber has played hundreds of games in North America, all his junior and AHL games. There is no mystery in the game here for Weber. We have to giv Emelin a longer leas to see if he ever will become a NHL D. He has the body tye, and possibly the offensive potential, we'll see if he ever starts to understand the NHL defensive zone game.

He had a great goal last night. No debate. But I do not see him being a top 6 D on the Habs, nor on any other team I believe is a contender. Not yet. Will he develop, maybe, but there is no way he is that guy now. If you think so, let's say we have different standards.

As for why he is a + player right now.... look at the games he has played, the opposition. Look at the forwards he was lined up against. The Habs want him to develop. They are picking their spots with him. He played a ton of minutes....against a Florida. Not exactly the offensive powerhouse are they?
Nobody is asking you for a 60 minute video, but if he is so overmatched you musy have some examples where he looked like he really didn't belong?

I don't recall him having too many shifts like the one Diaz and Gill had on the Phillie goal where they ran around and left the slot unprotected.

Weber's skillset reminds me a lot of Markov moreso than a "toolsy" beast like Subban, he relies on hockey sense, vision and poise plus above average mobility to break up plays and get the puck back up ice. In transition I find him better than Subban at getting the puck to our forwards. He can jump into the rush when needed but won't be trying to go end to end or beat 3-4 players 1 on 1. I see him being a very good #3-4 within 1 or 2 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFpineapple View Post
If only we had a young stud left handed all-around defenseman...

e.g. Ryan McDonagh.

Gorges - Subban
McDonagh - Weber
Gill/Emelin - Diaz

Instead we're stuck with Scott 7.3M Gomez.
Emelin has more upside than McDonagh IMHO. He is bigger, meaner and might have better offensive instincts.


Last edited by Mike8: 10-27-2011 at 05:39 PM.
Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:32 PM
  #54
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,242
vCash: 500
I don't know that Weber will be a top 4 ES dman any time soon. However, on the bottom pairing at ES, and playing on the PP, I think he offers more than Diaz or Emelin. I expect him to be an affordable, useful player for years to come.

The Habs still desperately need a tough minutes dman, whether it's Markov or someone from outside the organization.

Roulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:35 PM
  #55
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 45,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I don't know that Weber will be a top 4 ES dman any time soon. However, on the bottom pairing at ES, and playing on the PP, I think he offers more than Diaz or Emelin. I expect him to be an affordable, useful player for years to come.

The Habs still desperately need a tough minutes dman, whether it's Markov or someone from outside the organization.
Where art thou, Roman?

I love how he wasn't good enough for us, but he's good enough to be the #2 defenseman on the best team (so far) in the league.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:42 PM
  #56
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Nobody is asking you for a 60 minute video, but if he is so overmatched you musy have some examples where he looked like he really didn't belong?

I don't recall him having too many shifts like the one Diaz and Gill had on the Phillie goal where they ran around and left the slot unprotected.

Weber's skillset reminds me a lot of Markov moreso than a "toolsy" beast like Subban, he relies on hockey sense, vision and poise plus above average mobility to break up plays and get the puck back up ice. In transition I find him better than Subban at getting the puck to our forwards. He can jump into the rush when needed but won't be trying to go end to end or beat 3-4 players 1 on 1. I see him being a very good #3-4 within 1 or 2 years
This will sound weak but I cannot point one out as a glaring error. He is not a bad D, just not a solid D without the puck in his own end. He is not a turnover machine like Bergeron was, but his lack of "win" in one on one plays is what I cannot swallow. He does not use his speed and positioning to make up for his losses.

I have watched every game he has ever played in the NHL. Every shift. He just does not have the "stopper" in him yet. After his blueline, I find his passes ok. After the other blue, he has improved on not always missing the net or off the checkers shin pads. But he is not a dynamo. He is not a "can't miss" player.

I do not think he is the piece of the puzzle that the Habs need. And he has not forced them to change the puzzle. I try hard to avoid "falling in love" with a player because of one thing they did right, then seeing no wrong in him afterwards. I think that is a great way to build a losing team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Where art thou, Roman?

I love how he wasn't good enough for us, but he's good enough to be the #2 defenseman on the best team (so far) in the league.
Roman, but 10 years younger!


Last edited by Mike8: 10-27-2011 at 05:39 PM. Reason: merge
Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:53 PM
  #57
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,505
vCash: 500
Weber doesn't get overmatched. Saying that means you haven't seen him play because you're making it up. He's played the body often but not in a BIG HIT sense, but he's learned to seperate the puck carrier from the puck, his compete level and hockey IQ are good and he's done very well. I'm sorry, but I don't believe anyone who says he gets overmatched has watched the games. As a forward he plays decently and often got in the right position as well. He's no tremendous hitter or whatever, but I honestly believe saying he gets overmatched means you don't like the guy and are biased or you haven't watched the games. Sorry to be blunt.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:55 PM
  #58
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Weber doesn't get overmatched. Saying that means you haven't seen him play because you're making it up. He's played the body often but not in a BIG HIT sense, but he's learned to seperate the puck carrier from the puck, his compete level and hockey IQ are good and he's done very well. I'm sorry, but I don't believe anyone who says he gets overmatched has watched the games. As a forward he plays decently and often got in the right position as well. He's no tremendous hitter or whatever, but I honestly believe saying he gets overmatched means you don't like the guy and are biased or you haven't watched the games. Sorry to be blunt.
Yes, I am making it up.

Right.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 03:56 PM
  #59
De Montreal
help
 
De Montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: omg montréal lolzzz
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toastman View Post
To Islanders:

Andrei Markov

To Canadiens:

Mark Streit

As big as a Markov defender I am and have been and will be, I would do that in a heartbeat!

Letting go Mark Streit is one of the most underrated mistake the Canadiens have made in the past years... bigger than Ribeiro, Grabovski,..

De Montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:02 PM
  #60
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 45,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
As big as a Markov defender I am and have been and will be, I would do that in a heartbeat!

Letting go Mark Streit is one of the most underrated mistake the Canadiens have made in the past years... bigger than Ribeiro, Grabovski,..
I'm still pissed about that. He only wanted like $2M too.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:02 PM
  #61
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Roman, but 10 years younger!
He wears #74!

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:05 PM
  #62
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Emelin has more upside than McDonagh IMHO. He is bigger, meaner and might have better offensive instincts.
Nope, not even close.

I thought Weber looked like the odd man out on D until Florida, so I think Joe's point has some merit.

Diaz has struggled more recently, either way, I don't we should have both these guys on the same roster, even though they're both NHL quality. Just my opinion.

Edit: Once we are healthy, they won't be.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:06 PM
  #63
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
As big as a Markov defender I am and have been and will be, I would do that in a heartbeat!

Letting go Mark Streit is one of the most underrated mistake the Canadiens have made in the past years... bigger than Ribeiro, Grabovski,..
The mistake was made by Carbonneau.

Pretty hard to blame Gainey for not offering more than 2 mil to Streit when Carbo used him as a 3rd or 4th line winger and then on the PP. Had he been used as a #4 or 5 at 5 on 5 you can justify giving him 3-3.25 mil/year which may have gotten him signed before he hit UFA July 1st.

That being said if markov hadn't missed like 100 games the last 2 years we wouldn't have missed Streit much.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:06 PM
  #64
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Yes, I am making it up.

Right.
You might be, because I don't see how he's getting overmatched. He's occasionally outmuscled but he's been fighting for the puck constantly and is winning board battles, even against bigger players. I wouldn't trust him to shut down power forwards, but he plays a smart defensive game.

Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Diaz?

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:10 PM
  #65
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You might be, because I don't see how he's getting overmatched. He's occasionally outmuscled but he's been fighting for the puck constantly and is winning board battles, even against bigger players. I wouldn't trust him to shut down power forwards, but he plays a smart defensive game.

Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Diaz?
Not fair, Diaz was ahead of him until the last few games imo. These guys are young and they're both gonna have their weaker moments. Whether or not they can hold the fort until Markov gets back is the question.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:12 PM
  #66
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Yes, I am making it up.

Right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
This will sound weak but I cannot point one out as a glaring error. He is not a bad D, just not a solid D without the puck in his own end. He is not a turnover machine like Bergeron was, but his lack of "win" in one on one plays is what I cannot swallow. He does not use his speed and positioning to make up for his losses.

I have watched every game he has ever played in the NHL. Every shift. He just does not have the "stopper" in him yet. After his blueline, I find his passes ok. After the other blue, he has improved on not always missing the net or off the checkers shin pads. But he is not a dynamo. He is not a "can't miss" player.

I do not think he is the piece of the puzzle that the Habs need. And he has not forced them to change the puzzle. I try hard to avoid "falling in love" with a player because of one thing they did right, then seeing no wrong in him afterwards. I think that is a great way to build a losing team.
As you wish...

You write in a vague manner. Like "how can I sneak my point across without evidence". I mean, I can say your comments about anyone.

Ex: Sure ovechkin is a talented, robust player, but he doesn't have the "winner" in him. He's missing "it". He's not a player you "build around". I can't pinpoint an exact example, but you could say it's something impossible to prove, it's as if I have no evidence. Almost as if I have a pre determined opinion and i'm not open to changing it. It could be my "first impression" was wrong, but I can't really give you an answer why I refuse to believe Ovechkin is a good player. It seems as the only thing "missing" is proof, ironic I guess. I guess it's just a coincidence and I better keep saying he's not that good.

I don't mean to single you out, and for that I apologize. It's just I heard the same stuff about weber for a long time. "He'll never make it, too small"...'Powerplay specialist" yada yada yada. He's a smart kid, I think he'll do fine, and in a weber apprecation esque thread, it seems rather odd to come and say "i just have that feeling" as if its factual.


Edit: Joe messaged me and provided some actual evidence, maybe opinionated but I was harsh.


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 10-28-2011 at 12:02 AM.
LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:13 PM
  #67
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You might be, because I don't see how he's getting overmatched. He's occasionally outmuscled but he's been fighting for the puck constantly and is winning board battles, even against bigger players. I wouldn't trust him to shut down power forwards, but he plays a smart defensive game.

Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Diaz?
Yep, I am sure. Noth that I think Diaz is the second coming of Larry Robinson either.

Tell ya what, let's pay attention to his play against our main rival, the Bruins, for two games. Let's see how many times he wins his battles.

Even after a game where he played an important role in the victory, and now he is pumped with confidence... I hope he wins each time he goes into the corner with Lucic, Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Thorton, Paille and Campbell.

As a further part of the experiment, lower the sound on the RDS broadcast and watch the game without the play by play.

I hope I am wrong and he shuts them all down for two games.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:15 PM
  #68
JGRB
#EllerThugLife
 
JGRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Subban... really?

He's like the 4th best so far.

Weber then Gorges. Diaz & Subban are pretty close.

Subban has only really played good the last few games. The first 5 or 6 games he was atrocious.
Outside of a couple massive glaring mistakes (the first Toronto game being the worst, and then the huge Stastny give away) he has been pretty good. It's easy to **** on a guy that has the most pressure and is without a doubt the most important player (with Markov out) playing outside of the blue paint.

The micro-analysis by "Just Thoughts: Boucher Scouting" tell the same story I am telling, going into last night's game Subban had the highest rating overall out of any skater on the team, and was amongst the leaders in all the sub-catogories. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the team goes .500 so far over the year, and Subban gets a proper point partner he would have a few more points and all of a sudden he wouldn't be getting a hard time from some people.

He has not played as well as he can, as he demonstrated in the 2nd half and the playoffs last season, that much we can all agree on.

I don't want to high-jack the thread any further, so we can peacefully continue this via PM if you like. We are totally on the same page regarding Weber though.... It's fun that we share a love for a player for a change.

JGRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:21 PM
  #69
One Man Rock Band
T-Ross!!
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 45,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Outside of a couple massive glaring mistakes (the first Toronto game being the worst, and then the huge Stastny give away) he has been pretty good. It's easy to **** on a guy that has the most pressure and is without a doubt the most important player (with Markov out) playing outside of the blue paint.

The micro-analysis by "Just Thoughts: Boucher Scouting" tell the same story I am telling, going into last night's game Subban had the highest rating overall out of any skater on the team, and was amongst the leaders in all the sub-catogories. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the team goes .500 so far over the year, and Subban gets a proper point partner he would have a few more points and all of a sudden he wouldn't be getting a hard time from some people.

He has not played as well as he can, as he demonstrated in the 2nd half and the playoffs last season, that much we can all agree on.

I don't want to high-jack the thread any further, so we can peacefully continue this via PM if you like. We are totally on the same page regarding Weber though.... It's fun that we share a love for a player for a change.
I think Subban has been incredible the past few games. I just think he sucked the first few, really bad. Wasn't a lack of effort, more like trying to do too much. Boucher scouting also (usually) ranks DD pretty high in puck battles, yet most people here complain about how bad he is at them.

And yes, Weber has been a stud. Couldn't be happier with him.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:26 PM
  #70
JGRB
#EllerThugLife
 
JGRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Out of our 6 defenseman playing right now, he's 4th in ES minutes. Puts him as a Top-4 defenseman, especially when combining his minutes on the PP & PK.

He's third on the team (defense) in total minutes (20:17/game), behind only Subban & Gorges.

Weber is also averaging 2:08 minutes per game on the PK, which means he's still facing top-flight opposition at that point too.


:
If you take a look at the games he's actually played defense (he shifted back fulltime in Winnipeg in the 1st period, but played mostly 3rd pairing) he's averaged just shy of 22 minutes per game. He's being used a lot and he's played above expectations, anyone who thinks he belongs back on the wing at this point is out of their minds based on his play thus far.

Idealy is he a guy that plays 22 minutes per game? Maybe not today, but injuries have given him a chance to shine and not unlike Subban in that same situation last season he has relished in the role and has shown he can step up and log big minutes and complete his defensive assignments.

I predicted before the year that if he was used appropriately this season he should easily chip in 30-35 points for us and I stand by that prediction.

JGRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 04:28 PM
  #71
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
As you wish...

You write in a vague manner. Like "how can I sneak my point across without evidence". I mean, I can say your comments about anyone.

Ex: Sure ovechkin is a talented, robust player, but he doesn't have the "winner" in him. He's missing "it". He's not a player you "build around". I can't pinpoint an exact example, but you could say it's something impossible to prove, it's as if I have no evidence. Almost as if I have a pre determined opinion and i'm not open to changing it. It could be my "first impression" was wrong, but I can't really give you an answer why I refuse to believe Ovechkin is a good player. It seems as the only thing "missing" is proof, ironic I guess. I guess it's just a coincidence and I better keep saying he's not that good.

I don't mean to single you out, and for that I apologize. It's just I heard the same stuff about weber for a long time. "He'll never make it, too small"...'Powerplay specialist" yada yada yada. He's a smart kid, I think he'll do fine, and in a weber apprecation esque thread, it seems rather odd to come and say "i just have that feeling" as if its factual.
I do not take your post as a personal insult either, just your thoughts.

Evidence. Seriously, unless we watch the game together, it would be impossible to agree on what evidence is.

It is all subjective. Everything is opinion, even the interpretation of the holy stats that people cling to. It is my opinion, and it it is not based on my infatuation with a player, nor my desire to see him fail. It is based on my 35+ years of watching hockey, and 35+ years of playing hockey (at an elite level in my day). It is based on the fact that i care about the team winning, not which name is on the back of ANY jersey.

I have my favorites, Subban for example, but I am not above saying he tries too hard and may think he has more skill than he has at this point.

I do not care about any player more than the team. I care about the Canadiens.

So, in a Weber appreciation thread, yes, I am not the cheerleader, nor am I saying he is without positive aspects either.

Don't expect me to rattle off some random stat or single play which is supposed to illustrate the entirety of any players skill/worth. Doing so has no value. It is only about your, mine and other people's opinion.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 05:00 PM
  #72
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Where art thou, Roman?

I love how he wasn't good enough for us, but he's good enough to be the #2 defenseman on the best team (so far) in the league.
Amen to that. Hopefully Markov comes back and proves me wrong, but right now it looks like PG bet on the wrong horses this summer.

Roulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 05:06 PM
  #73
Habit11
Registered User
 
Habit11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Amen to that. Hopefully Markov comes back and proves me wrong, but right now it looks like PG bet on the wrong horses this summer.
He offered Hamrlik a 1 year deal, so it's not like no offer was made. Gill accepted a 1 year deal, Hamrlik could have done the same. PG could have offered two, but with a new CBA coming in, that may have swayed PG away from giving him two years. The defence is now younger, and at some point you have to turn the page on guys nearing the end of their career, even it means short term growing pains for younger replacements.

Habit11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 06:21 PM
  #74
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Amen to that. Hopefully Markov comes back and proves me wrong, but right now it looks like PG bet on the wrong horses this summer.
I like Hamrlik and all but for anything more than a 1 year deal it's a bad gamble on a 35+ contract. Markov on the other hand is a game changer, he makes everybody else better, regardless of bad luck with injuries you HAVE to to what needs to be done to keep him. His 3 year deal is only a 1 year deal if he blows out his knee again as they'll sign somebody else next summer and put him on LITR. They have the deep pockets to pay the salary above the cap.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2011, 06:24 PM
  #75
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
He offered Hamrlik a 1 year deal, so it's not like no offer was made. Gill accepted a 1 year deal, Hamrlik could have done the same. PG could have offered two, but with a new CBA coming in, that may have swayed PG away from giving him two years. The defence is now younger, and at some point you have to turn the page on guys nearing the end of their career, even it means short term growing pains for younger replacements.
Plus, had we not lost Spacek and Campoli we would not have felt the loss of Hamrlik. Spacek has played well the last 2 games in a steady mistake free(hope I didn't jinx him for tonight) way. Campoli would have taken over 20 minutes and with Goges you have a couple of veterans that can play 20-22 minutes of steady hockey until Markov returns. Obviously those 2 getting hurt forced us to play 3 rookies back there and led to Gorges Gill and Subban probably getting overexposed and trying to do too much.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.