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Old
10-27-2011, 04:24 PM
  #1
KodiakArrest
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Defense

After watching last night, I am even more dismayed at our defensive strategy. It may be the defenders themselves, but it's not pretty to watch. Our goaltending is the only thing keeping us in games this year. There are some bright spots out there, mainly Kyle Quincey and EJ, but the O's (O'Byrne and O'Brien) look terrible. Slow, clunky and any other adjective you can throw out there for being slower than George W. Bush reading Green Eggs and Ham. The points and wins are there because of the clutch play of Varlamov, but if we continue to play this way we'll find ourselves losing a lot more games than winning.

It is painful to watch our defensive zone, any thoughts on what the hell can be done to fix this?

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10-27-2011, 04:32 PM
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electricjib
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Insert Elliot or Barrie here

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10-27-2011, 04:41 PM
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Razor29
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Our D is certainly better than last year.

I wish they would get a little closer to their man at times, they seem to allow anyone to skate around them.

The offense are still getting off a lot of shots, but they aren't really quality shots.

They could be better, but for who we have, I am not complaining.. yet.

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Old
10-27-2011, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avalanche View Post
Our D is certainly better than last year.

I wish they would get a little closer to their man at times, they seem to allow anyone to skate around them.

The offense are still getting off a lot of shots, but they aren't really quality shots.

They could be better, but for who we have, I am not complaining.. yet.
The offense is playing pretty well right now. With the Duchene slump, missing Mueller and the need for the team to gel as a whole, we look fine. The defense looks sketchy most of the time. We need to get Hishon and Seimens up here when the time is right.

You can't really complain with the results so far this year, but I can see this season going badly if Varly/Gigure get peppered like that 1st Period in Calgary every game..

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10-27-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by imperiumk View Post
The offense is playing pretty well right now. With the Duchene slump, missing Mueller and the need for the team to gel as a whole, we look fine. The defense looks sketchy most of the time. We need to get Hishon and Seimens up here when the time is right.

You can't really complain with the results so far this year, but I can see this season going badly if Varly/Gigure get peppered like that 1st Period in Calgary every game..
Can't edit my posts, I meant, the opponents offense are taking a lot of shots from crappy areas.

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Old
10-27-2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperiumk View Post
It is painful to watch our defensive zone, any thoughts on what the hell can be done to fix this?
You want painful, you should try watching our defensive zone play LAST season. Hunwick alone is the equivalent of a root canal done with a power drill.

Yes, at times our D looks slow and clunky, and EJ/Hejda make far too many mistakes for my liking, but I still think our D is a huge improvement from last season. We went from a speedy, undersized D to a bigger, tougher, more physical corps. There's obviously some trade-offs there. Personally I think we could have and should have kept Liles, but that's just me.

What the hell can be done to fix this? Not much. Right now the best help that can be had is in Lake Erie, and unfortunately they got their own problems right now. Besides, it's not worth rushing our top prospects for a short-term fix right now.

Long-term, it's my hope our D looks something like this:

Elliott - Siemens
Johnson - Hejda
Barrie - Wilson/O'Byrne

Not sure where, or even if Chouinard fits into our plans, but it's nice that right now we have some real blueline talent in the pipeline.

There's also FA possibilities, but that can wait until this offseason.

The next possibility is trade, but right now I don't see anyone who could truly be had right now except for maybe Weber or Morrisonn in Buffalo's system, currently the odd-men-out. I suppose Weber or Suter might be available later if Nashville is out of it, but the price for either would be steep to say the least.

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Old
10-27-2011, 05:05 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperiumk View Post
The offense is playing pretty well right now. With the Duchene slump, missing Mueller and the need for the team to gel as a whole, we look fine. The defense looks sketchy most of the time. We need to get Hishon and Seimens up here when the time is right.

You can't really complain with the results so far this year, but I can see this season going badly if Varly/Gigure get peppered like that 1st Period in Calgary every game..
The offense is NOT playing well. The Avs have been lucky to have faced off against ridiculously bad goaltending (even Mike Haynes commented the other night that Kipprusoff's performance was the first time the Avs had faced off against truly good netminding this season) and the power play has been surprisingly effective. But no, the offense is not playing well, apart from the Lando/O'Reilly/Winnik line.

And I'll say it again, for management to have set themselves up where they were counting on a healthy Mueller with no real backup plan (apart from Kobasew/Lindstrom I guess) is idiocy of monumental proportions.

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Old
10-27-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
You want painful, you should try watching our defensive zone play LAST season. Hunwick alone is the equivalent of a root canal done with a power drill.

Yes, at times our D looks slow and clunky, and EJ/Hejda make far too many mistakes for my liking, but I still think our D is a huge improvement from last season. We went from a speedy, undersized D to a bigger, tougher, more physical corps. There's obviously some trade-offs there. Personally I think we could have and should have kept Liles, but that's just me.

What the hell can be done to fix this? Not much. Right now the best help that can be had is in Lake Erie, and unfortunately they got their own problems right now. Besides, it's not worth rushing our top prospects for a short-term fix right now.

Long-term, it's my hope our D looks something like this:

Elliott - Siemens
Johnson - Hejda
Barrie - Wilson/O'Byrne

Not sure where, or even if Chouinard fits into our plans, but it's nice that right now we have some real blueline talent in the pipeline.

There's also FA possibilities, but that can wait until this offseason.

The next possibility is trade, but right now I don't see anyone who could truly be had right now except for maybe Weber or Morrisonn in Buffalo's system, currently the odd-men-out. I suppose Weber or Suter might be available later if Nashville is out of it, but the price for either would be steep to say the least.

Well yes, they are an improvement over last year. I think anything would have been.

Onto your future lineup, I like it, except the lack of Quincey. The guy has some serious game and I would take him over Hejda any day of the week.

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Old
10-27-2011, 05:10 PM
  #9
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Should we put Wilson in the top 4 and move O'Brien out? His play deserves it, but that leaves a third pairing of OB1 and OB2. I don't know if I like that.

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10-27-2011, 05:56 PM
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I think Ryan O'Byrne has been pretty solid this year. Haven't noticed him much—in a good way. Ryan Wilson is also having his best start by a mile, and together the two Ryan's have formed a good third pairing.

While it's true that Shane O'Brien hasn't been great at all the last couple of games, he's adequate as a second pairing defender right now. That is, the defense is probably good enough to get into the playoffs with as it is, not discounting the possibility of Stefan Elliott or Tyson Barrie making an impact at some point.

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Old
10-27-2011, 06:26 PM
  #11
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Before the season started, most people thought the Avs will be 0-9 or maybe 2-7 in the first 9 games, and be at the bottom of the standings. But they are 6-3, 3rd in west, and people still complaining?

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Old
10-27-2011, 06:38 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
Before the season started, most people thought the Avs will be 0-9 or maybe 2-7 in the first 9 games, and be at the bottom of the standings. But they are 6-3, 3rd in west, and people still complaining?
This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen. You should always be critiquing and expect certain things from your team. The reason we are 6-3 is not because of our defensive play, that is for certain. We have had multiple shootout wins. Goaltending has been outstanding.

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Old
10-27-2011, 06:39 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
Before the season started, most people thought the Avs will be 0-9 or maybe 2-7 in the first 9 games, and be at the bottom of the standings. But they are 6-3, 3rd in west, and people still complaining?
Instead of considering any little comment to be "complaining", how about we engage in some meaningful discussion about improving? Last I checked, we've still lost 3 games and hardly looked like world beaters in all of our wins.

Just because we want to discuss ways to improve does not mean we are complaining. What should all the posts be? "Oh, we lost, cool stuff, next game!" Come on now.

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Old
10-27-2011, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
You want painful, you should try watching our defensive zone play LAST season. Hunwick alone is the equivalent of a root canal done with a power drill.

Yes, at times our D looks slow and clunky, and EJ/Hejda make far too many mistakes for my liking, but I still think our D is a huge improvement from last season. We went from a speedy, undersized D to a bigger, tougher, more physical corps. There's obviously some trade-offs there. Personally I think we could have and should have kept Liles, but that's just me.

What the hell can be done to fix this? Not much. Right now the best help that can be had is in Lake Erie, and unfortunately they got their own problems right now. Besides, it's not worth rushing our top prospects for a short-term fix right now.

Long-term, it's my hope our D looks something like this:

Elliott - Siemens
Johnson - Hejda
Barrie - Wilson/O'Byrne

Not sure where, or even if Chouinard fits into our plans, but it's nice that right now we have some real blueline talent in the pipeline.

There's also FA possibilities, but that can wait until this offseason.

The next possibility is trade, but right now I don't see anyone who could truly be had right now except for maybe Weber or Morrisonn in Buffalo's system, currently the odd-men-out. I suppose Weber or Suter might be available later if Nashville is out of it, but the price for either would be steep to say the least.
Long term, I am pretty sure Gaunce will be top-4 D caliber. Don't know if you forgot about him...

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Old
10-27-2011, 06:48 PM
  #15
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I like the play of Wilson and O'Byrne and I think it is because they are finally used in a role that they can handle. I'd prefer them to stay the third pairing as much as possible. If that means O'Brien being asked to do more than he can handle, I am fine with that. I expect him to have off games.

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Instead of considering any little comment to be "complaining", how about we engage in some meaningful discussion about improving? Last I checked, we've still lost 3 games and hardly looked like world beaters in all of our wins.

Just because we want to discuss ways to improve does not mean we are complaining. What should all the posts be? "Oh, we lost, cool stuff, next game!" Come on now.

Ways to improve?

The 6-3 record so far is the best improvement you're gonna get. It is surprising to say the least that the Avs have a 6-3 record so far.

If this team is going to improve any more, they are going to need much better wingers to play with Duchene, so he can start producing, and also I think this team needs another d-man, #1 or #2.

But for now you should be very happy the team is 6-3 and not 1-8

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Old
10-27-2011, 07:28 PM
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We have BIG guys on defense. All they got to do is make sure the forwards are back checking and when they are, you drill the puck carrier into the boards, separating the man from the puck.

Then our team takes control of the puck or at least screw the offensive team in their zone entrance.

With Ds at least 6'3 and 215 pounds, it shouldn't be a problem.

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Old
10-27-2011, 08:01 PM
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I think you guys are overreacting. Defense has been fine this year.

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Old
10-27-2011, 10:14 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
Ways to improve?

The 6-3 record so far is the best improvement you're gonna get. It is surprising to say the least that the Avs have a 6-3 record so far.

If this team is going to improve any more, they are going to need much better wingers to play with Duchene, so he can start producing, and also I think this team needs another d-man, #1 or #2.

But for now you should be very happy the team is 6-3 and not 1-8
Stop complaining.

...

See how annoying that is?

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Old
10-27-2011, 11:27 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I think you guys are overreacting. Defense has been fine this year.
Still allowing too many shots. I think the defensive core could use another veteran.

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Old
10-27-2011, 11:41 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by IceCrusher21 View Post
Long term, I am pretty sure Gaunce will be top-4 D caliber. Don't know if you forgot about him...
Whoops...yes, you're right. I did forget about him.

Very much psyched about the future of this defensive corps, and I still like what I see for the most part from the present. Far cry from the days when the Avs' D managed to be soft, slow, AND undersized with guys like Brett Clark playing major minutes.

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Old
10-27-2011, 11:44 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I like the play of Wilson and O'Byrne and I think it is because they are finally used in a role that they can handle. I'd prefer them to stay the third pairing as much as possible. If that means O'Brien being asked to do more than he can handle, I am fine with that. I expect him to have off games.
Came here to say this. Wilson has been very good so far, but when you start feeding him top 4 minutes problems arise. Agree with the O'Brien comment as well.

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:08 AM
  #23
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Time to play Hunwick, Oilers' legs should be tired and this is the perfect team to insert more speed and transition to the blue line. He may do well, he may suck, but at any rate, sooner or later he will play and we need to see what he can provide during ideal, non-injury forced circumstances. This is a good opportunity to get him back into the lineup and watch. Worst come to worst, it shakes off some rust in case there is an injury down the line.

O'Byrne would be my choice to sit.

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:17 AM
  #24
Jimmy Carter
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Originally Posted by electricjib View Post
Insert Elliot or Barrie here
I agree. I think O'Byrne only looked like a legit top 4 guy last year because he was paired with a speed team like Liles. I think if you pair one of our youngster PMDs with him, you'll see his play improve a lot.

Long term, it'd be better to move O'Byrne down to our 3rd pairing though. I think he's a 3rd/2nd pairing tweener, and we're using him as a 2nd because we don't have a 4th guy that is solid in the top 4. EJ is our #1, Hejda's a great top 4 guy, and Quincey is a great top 4 guy as well with the potential to be our #2. However, we don't have that 4th indisputable top 4 guy. O'Brien and Wilson are 3rd pairing for their careers IMO, and O'Byrne is a tweener IMO as I said before. Once Elliott or Barrie are ready, I think we'll be fine defensively.

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:21 AM
  #25
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Insert Elliot or Barrie here
have you see lake erie this year,its pathetic

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