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Habs beat the Bruins 2-1

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Old
10-27-2011, 10:09 PM
  #201
Habit11
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Good vid up on tsn showing how the Habs' sending two guys in to forecheck tonight caused fits for the B's defence. Not sure why they can't forecheck like that more often?

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10-27-2011, 10:09 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
That's a better find, but I'd wager that the weight difference was much less substantial back then. Regardless, like I said - Shawn is better than any "fighter" we currently have.

I'd prefer having someone like Souray, someone who can fight, play hockey and offers good leadership. But having a Thornton to deal with the Lucics, Hortons, etc. of the league would be great.
I'd take Souray, Thornton, Rupp and Asham on my team. How's that?

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10-27-2011, 10:11 PM
  #203
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How cruel are you guys, you want Souray to break his hand/wrist again! :

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10-27-2011, 10:11 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I'd take Souray, Thornton, Rupp and Asham on my team. How's that?
One of those alone could change the dynamic of our team

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10-27-2011, 10:12 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
Good vid up on tsn showing how the Habs' sending two guys in to forecheck tonight caused fits for the B's defence. Not sure why they can't forecheck like that more often?
With the increased mobility on defense brought in this season, they will be able to do that more this season.

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10-27-2011, 10:12 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Thornton ragdolled Laraque in a couple of occasions. Conboy might do good against average fighters la Hartnell, but against big and experienced like Thornton? He's dead. Same for Schultz. Or maybe if Thonrton plays till 50...then they might have a chance.

Thornton, like him or not, he's amongst the best in what he does.
Ragdolled?..



Wouldn't say that. Thornton takes him down quickly, and then does pretty much nothing other than hold on and give the occasional punch.

Maybe while in Chicago though,



But then again, Thornton got beat clean by him twice too:




So, not so sure about ragdolling Laraque. I see him winning one, tying the other, and losing two.

He is a good fighter, but really, he's beatable.

KOd.


Tries crap with Buf and gets tossed on his ass.


Hangs on for his life versus Brashear.



Really, he always looks great against us because there's nobody to answer him, but he doesn't strike fear in the eyes of other enforcers.

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10-27-2011, 10:12 PM
  #207
Ross MacLochness
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
Good vid up on tsn showing how the Habs' sending two guys in to forecheck tonight caused fits for the B's defence. Not sure why they can't forecheck like that more often?
Every time we do it we look good. It boggles my mind when I see us giving the other teams defense time and space. We could honestly be one of the best forechecking teams in the league when you look at our personnel. And Eller, Plekanec and Nokelainen are more than capable of being the third man back to break up the other teams rush.

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10-27-2011, 10:14 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
Every time we do it we look good. It boggles my mind when I see us giving the other teams defense time and space. We could honestly be one of the best forechecking teams in the league when you look at our personnel. And Eller, Plekanec and Nokelainen are more than capable of being the third man back to break up the other teams rush.
Not really. A combination of small forwards and slow defenders makes that strategy not very effective. But like I said before, we can afford to be more liberal now with increased mobility on the blue line this season.

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10-27-2011, 10:22 PM
  #209
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You see guys JM knew exactly what he was talking about when he said he wasn't too worried about the Habs slow start this year..

JM as shown more emotion behind the bench in the past 2 games than he as in the past 2 seasons combined..

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10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
  #210
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Really, he always looks great against us because there's nobody to answer him, but he doesn't strike fear in the eyes of other enforcers.
And again....my point was that he did overpowed Laraque BIG TIME at the start of the first scrap and won the 2nd one. Now, if you go back at the LARAQUE'S fights...did he have other fighters where he CLEARLY lost 1 fight and was overpowered the way he was at the start of it. Again, Thornton is 6'1'' 210lbs, give the guy a freakin break. Doesn't strike fear on Brashear and the biggest ones for sure but that wasn't the point.

And I'm not going to "counterattack" with other vids when he does great against Boulton, just the fact that he did more than OK against Boogaard, greata fight against Hordichuck etc...

The guy has to be amongst the greatest for his size. And he's giving, once in a while, some problems to much bigger ones.

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10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
  #211
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Gutsy effort. Overcame officiating that was lopsided. Gill still looks lost and Spacek is plays the puck like a grenade but its nice to see some forechecking, finally.
Nonsense. If you have the game on video, you should replay it. Spacek played excellent D on the Bruins PPs.

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10-27-2011, 10:26 PM
  #212
Ross MacLochness
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Not really. A combination of small forwards and slow defenders makes that strategy not very effective. But like I said before, we can afford to be more liberal now with increased mobility on the blue line this season.
Having your second forechecker be a little more proactive and forcing turnovers instead of standing stationary at the blueline doesn't really impact your defensemen's positioning. We're not talking about run and gun pond hockey here. It's a very subtle change that plays to the strengths of guys like Cole, Pacioretty, Kostitsyn and especially small guys like Plekanec and Gionta who win much more than their share of puck battles. We may be a tad more mobile back there and sure that helps, but I see no reason why we couldn't play that same way if you substituted Wiz for Diaz and Hamrlik for Gorges.

Carbonneau's teams had basically a non-existent forecheck and we spent the entire game in our zone because of it.

-On a side note, when I see Subban play sometimes I want to give him a smack, then I see an interview with him and he's like a totally different person. He plays nothing like he acts, as opposed to Price who plays as laid-back as he seems in person. Awesome "HABS" cap too.


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Old
10-27-2011, 10:38 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And again....my point was that he did overpowed Laraque BIG TIME at the start of the first scrap and won the 2nd one. Now, if you go back at the LARAQUE'S fights...did he have other fighters where he CLEARLY lost 1 fight and was overpowered the way he was at the start of it. Again, Thornton is 6'1'' 210lbs, give the guy a freakin break. Doesn't strike fear on Brashear and the biggest ones for sure but that wasn't the point.

And I'm not going to "counterattack" with other vids when he does great against Boulton, just the fact that he did more than OK against Boogaard, greata fight against Hordichuck etc...

The guy has to be amongst the greatest for his size. And he's giving, once in a while, some problems to much bigger ones.
I don't think he overpowered Laraque big time. Catch any guy off balance and you can make him look like a feather no matter how heavier he may be. That's all it was.

Not denying the man is strong. But he gets a little too much love from habs fans. Pound for pound, he's one of best, sure, you could argue that. He can still get his ass whooped by Daniel Carcillo who's under 6 feet and barely over 200lbs.
As I said, he runs around freely doing as he pleases versus us because we have nobody. So obviously people feel he's amazing. He's good, but not my first pick by any means.

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10-27-2011, 10:41 PM
  #214
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Nice little montage on tsn video player on the Habs forecheck. Hasn't been mentioned enough. Great adjustment made to turn the ship around.

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10-27-2011, 11:03 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
Having your second forechecker be a little more proactive and forcing turnovers instead of standing stationary at the blueline doesn't really impact your defensemen's positioning.
I'll tell you why it does. Before the emergence of Pacioretty, and now the addition of Cole, we had a number of key offensive guys that are not suited for a strong forechecking game. I would argue that Plekanec's passive defending in the neutral zone is much more effective than his forechecking for example. Cammalleri nor Gionta are that strong of forecheckers, Gionta is decent though, ect. However, when you have a smaller top 6 and you apply a two man forecheck, they are probably going to lose the majority of those battles. This allows the opposing team to break out with more room in the neutral zone, making our true weakness, our bad mobility in defenders stick out. The system Martin put into place was designed to protect that weakness, rather than expose it. It is no different than how he installs a strict collapse system in the defensive zone to exemplify that strength(ie shot blocking ability and long reach) on the flip side.

I would agree that the addition of Cole, and the emergence of Pacioretty, along with having Diaz, Weber, Subban, and Emelin(and Campoli was supposed to be part of this too) has given Martin an option of being a little more liberal on the forecheck in the right circumstances.


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Old
10-27-2011, 11:41 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I'll tell you why it does. Before the emergence of Pacioretty, and now the addition of Cole, we had a number of key offensive guys that are not suited for a strong forechecking game. I would argue that Plekanec's passive defending in the neutral zone is much more effective than his forechecking for example. Cammalleri nor Gionta are that strong of forecheckers, Gionta is decent though, ect. However, when you have a smaller top 6 and you apply a two man forecheck, they are probably going to lose the majority of those battles. This allows the opposing team to break out with more room in the neutral zone, making our true weakness, our bad mobility in defenders stick out. The system Martin put into place was designed to protect that weakness, rather than expose it. It is no different than how he installs a strict collapse system in the defensive zone to exemplify that strength(ie shot blocking ability and long reach) on the flip side.

I would agree that the addition of Cole, and the emergence of Pacioretty, along with having Diaz, Weber, Subban, and Emelin(and Campoli was supposed to be part of this too) has given Martin an option of being a little more liberal on the forecheck in the right circumstances.
To me its more about taking away other D's time and options rather than board battles. I don't care if Cammalleri and Gomez are small you just can't spend the entire game on your heels. If your too small to have a second man play a "controlled" but aggressive forecheck, then dump and chase is obviously not going to happen when you do have the puck. And there are no elite talents to score goals out of nothing off the rush, so where do the scoring chances come from? And speaking of past guys: Higgins, Lapierre, Moore, Pyatt, Kostopoulos are absolutely built for the forecheck. And slower guys like Latendresse, Koivu and Kovalev were utterly useless standing still in the neutral zone. The Plekanecs, Eller's, Giontas and Sergei Kostitsyns are good enough to do either/or. We've tried the passive, reactionary play for 10 years, and I don't want to think about what our results would have been without the generally stellar goaltending we've received. In fact I would argue that the style of play our defense has not been able to handle is letting other teams build up speed and come at us. We'll agree to disagree

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10-28-2011, 12:22 AM
  #217
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Not really. A combination of small forwards and slow defenders makes that strategy not very effective. But like I said before, we can afford to be more liberal now with increased mobility on the blue line this season.
this myth still exists ?

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10-28-2011, 12:26 AM
  #218
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How does chara not constantly get called for diving?

Its a shame that plekanec had to beat price off the faceoff, but at least no bruin managed to beat him.

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10-28-2011, 12:54 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Jessica Rusnak on Twitter with another great one.....And Bruins fans will not be happy if they hear about this.

Seems that Marchand and Subban are friendly with each other. They joked together about the fight after it happened. Being that they won the Gold together, seems that there's no animosity towards them....

And Marchand takes a NOSE dive as far as the love the fans have for him.....
That's too facile. Subban threw two or three roundhouse rights that missed. If he had been more accurate he could have hurt Marchand. The Nose was fortunate that Subban is an oaf as a fighter.

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10-28-2011, 01:33 AM
  #220
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but watching the highlights on tsn.com, take a look at Budaj. He is totally taunting the boston fans after the Habs 2nd goal. It is great.

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10-28-2011, 01:33 AM
  #221
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Happy to see forechecking, finally!

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10-28-2011, 02:43 AM
  #222
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Its nice to see back to back positive results, but lets not let that mask the amount of needless defensive zone turnovers. There's still alot of work to do in that regard.

On the bright side, the habs seem to be reducing the amount of odd-man rushes against them compared to earlier in the year.

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10-28-2011, 02:46 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
Good vid up on tsn showing how the Habs' sending two guys in to forecheck tonight caused fits for the B's defence. Not sure why they can't forecheck like that more often?
Exactly. It was great to see Martin doing SOMETHING NEW....sending in two forcheckers. The B's were getting buzzed with that tactic.


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10-28-2011, 02:51 AM
  #224
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that 3-man forecheck the bruins rock is a killer

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10-28-2011, 03:22 AM
  #225
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It appeared to me during the game that Martin was trying the new tactic of actually "talking" to the players, the players seemed shocked at first but adjusted to the new tactic and played a strong game. It seemed he was using a 1-2-2 method of communication where he would speak one word and 2 players would respond back and 2 more players supported them in their reponses.

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